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Thread: Rodenstock 28mm HR VS Schneider Super Digitar 28XL

  1. #151
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Rodenstock 28mm HR VS Schneider Super Digitar 28XL

    Couple quick shots installed on the 28mm. As you can see you can't screw anything in the front.







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    Re: Rodenstock 28mm HR VS Schneider Super Digitar 28XL

    Also just wanted to point something out they use a enlarged focus ring on the 28mm so you can get to it.

    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Rodenstock 28mm HR VS Schneider Super Digitar 28XL

    Thank you very much, Guy, very helpful!

    Chris

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    Re: Rodenstock 28mm HR VS Schneider Super Digitar 28XL

    makes me appreciate the smaller handles on the non-anniversary model.

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    Re: Rodenstock 28mm HR VS Schneider Super Digitar 28XL

    Quick update the 110mm lens cap mentioned above is the one for sure. Again thanks Steve for looking that up
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Rodenstock 28mm HR VS Schneider Super Digitar 28XL

    What is the back focus distance on these lenses...? (Flange focal distance)?

    Presumably, if the SK is non-retro-focus, it needs to be closer to the sensor, and will not be compatible with as many cameras?

    ¿Body tilts in recessed boards with electronic shutters?

  7. #157
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    Re: Rodenstock 28mm HR VS Schneider Super Digitar 28XL

    Not sure Dick maybe we can get one of the reps to help on that. But yes we could possible have trouble with the Aptus 12 as well and maybe the 10 which is that not the back that has a 3:2 ratio.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  8. #158
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    Re: Rodenstock 28mm HR VS Schneider Super Digitar 28XL

    Hi guys
    Just to let you know my center filter for my 28mm xl just arrived and sweet mama but it's fantastic. It's huge and it needs to be.
    I use it on a Cambo wide DS and a Hasselblad H3D 39. The Schneider lenses on the H3D have none of the issues of strong color cast you get on the larger sensor Phase One IQ's. I have no knowledge of how it looks on the H4D 60. It would be great to hear from someone who does.

    My comments here are mainly to do with movements and how the centre filter performs with vignetting, noise reduction and how much movements are possible without vignetting. I was blown away with the results.
    I pretty much maxed out the movements on the cambo wide DS before vignetting started to happen. I was getting up to 17 rise or shift combined with about 7 or 8mm in the other direction before vigetting jet started to appear!! As long as low contrast areas (It does become softer but still workable. If high contrast objects are located there, extra sharpening should improve that to a working level) are located in the outermost corners of the image anything is possible with this filter/lens combination. Noise is much more controlled in shadow areas in the corners than the Schneider digital filter. That would be a pretty obvious result of course because it's a correction at the source rather than digitally done later. Once the equalize intensity tool is used in Phocus it removes any bit of additional vignetting. Although some may wish to keep that. I haven't tested it yet for reflections from say spot lights. I have 2 architectural shoots next week and I can't wait to start using it.

    Bottom line is the results are phenomenal for a lens this wide and I am delighted with it. I didn't get any of the strong color cast issues you get with the IQ160 and more so the IQ180. I know a lot of photographers don't need those movements but many do. I shoot a lot of panoramics and these movements are crucial for me. The digital center filter was really busting my beep beeps and the lens centre filter will save me oodles of time and with much better results. Guy, the color casts issues and the resulting limitations on lens movements on the IQ160 I would still find restrictive, especially for my architectural work. A lot of the time moving back to increase the distance between you and your subject are not possible, more so for internals with double hight spaces, high atriums etc. Don't forget you might want to rise but usually you want to shift as well. I shoot quite often with a certain part of the scene parallel to the bottom/top of the image, a bit like how a movie is shot. A particular spot just works the best where everything falls into place. I can't rotate the camera which means I use movements in the horizontal and vertical axis to get the exact result that I want. Allowing me up to 17mm in one direction with 7 in the other gives me the freedom to create an image exactly as I want. I forgot to say I maxed out the movements of the lens with the centre filter when I moved the lens in one direction with the other direction set to zero. The knob just won't go any further!!!

    Oh and by the way Guy, a lens cap came with the filter. It was almost welded on. This may be an issue when you are shooting the same scene over different exposures but want to keep the filter protected from say water spray. It's so tight there is a risk of causing a slight movement of the camera. Hopefully as it get's used the plastic sides to the cap will relax somewhat and fit easier.

    One of my best buys in a while.
    Last edited by Enda Cavanagh; 29th June 2012 at 08:32.

  9. #159
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: Rodenstock 28mm HR VS Schneider Super Digitar 28XL

    Enda: As most things, also the 28 centre filter is a compromise. I agree completely that it is excellent to even out exposure and more so with movements. But, there are a few negatives associated with the filter as well (unfortunately). With the filter on, it flares easily, I get magenta colourcast in the centre of the frame and most importanly - it looses contrast and sharpness and noticably so.

    Take a shot with and without filter at f5.6 and layer the two images. Go in to actual pixels and go back and forth between the two and be surprised of how much detail is "filtered" with the CF image.

    Most of the time now I shoot without the CF and accept the vignetting, but I gain sharper images, better colours, flarefree and on top gain two stops.

    Instead of increasing noise in digital removal of vignetting without CF for critical work, I shoot a two stop overexposure and blend in those corners
    Last edited by danlindberg; 4th July 2012 at 09:24. Reason: added info
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

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    Re: Rodenstock 28mm HR VS Schneider Super Digitar 28XL

    Hi Dan
    I have to say I shot a lovely house with 28mm and the filter last week with multiple ceiling spot lights and I had no problem with flare that couldn't be rectified with barn doors. I had a few wee problems with halos and these were easily removed later. I didn't check at the time if they were visible without the filter on because they were only small.
    I just took 2 images with the centre filter on and off on my H3D 39 and I must say the magenta cast on the H3D is at a very tolerable level. There is a very similar cast with or without the filter when I view the 2 images without any calibration. The big difference of course is with the amount of vignetting, even without any lens movements.

    I set the lens to f8 and photographed my office with and without the filter. The image sharpness was very close between the 2 shots.

    I can only speak from experience with the Hasselblad H3D 39 but as it stands this filter ain't coming off any time in the future

    Because I shoot a lot of my images as panoramics it just wouldn't be financially viable to have to blend the corners on all the shots. I would be for ever and a day having to do that. It's so much easier now. Also anything that gives me 2 stops extra exposure to slow things down suits me. A LOT of my landscapes have water in them.

  11. #161
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: Rodenstock 28mm HR VS Schneider Super Digitar 28XL

    I still use the CF when shifting 10mm or more and when doing flatstitching. But I can clearly see the points I stated earlier. It must be that our backs react differently. The centre magenta spot I get unshifted as well when the CF is on, but clean without.
    Still I am impressed and enjoy the lens
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

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    Re: Rodenstock 28mm HR VS Schneider Super Digitar 28XL

    Quote Originally Posted by danlindberg View Post
    Enda:
    Instead of increasing noise in digital removal of vignetting without CF for critical work, I shoot a two stop overexposure and blend in those corners
    A nice little tidbit that may have gone unnoticed by some but not by me

    Thanks.....

    Victor

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    Re: Rodenstock 28mm HR VS Schneider Super Digitar 28XL

    Dear Friends,

    I'm wondering your opinion on the Schneider Digitar / Apo Helvetar 28mm
    - is it still interesting choice in 2017?

    I'm still a big fan of Schneider 35mm Digitar, as well as all symetrical Schneiders.

    I work with p25, p45 and p65 and I still can not find an objective reason to upgrade.
    Each digital back can delivery very special and different look as it was in film days..

    I tried to work with CMOS sensors, but the colors and the overall result absolutely did not satisfy me.
    If I had one day to upgrade, I hope there will be a possibility to find a new full frame CMOS back with 6 micon sensor.

    How stands the 28mm Digitar in comparadtion with Rodenstock Alpars 28 and 32 mm?

    I must say that queasiness of Rodenstocks and their size play a significant negative role for me.
    As well as distortion, which I hate. Even though it can be removed by software.

    I am photographer of historic architecture and automobiles.
    Sometimes I make a panorama -15 + 15 mm

    Im architecture and vintage cars photographer, based in the Czech Republic.

    Thanks for Your feedback!

    David

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    Re: Rodenstock 28mm HR VS Schneider Super Digitar 28XL

    Quote Originally Posted by David Zidlicky View Post
    Dear Friends,

    I'm wondering your opinion on the Schneider Digitar / Apo Helvetar 28mm
    - is it still interesting choice in 2017?

    I'm still a big fan of Schneider 35mm Digitar, as well as all symetrical Schneiders.

    I work with p25, p45 and p65 and I still can not find an objective reason to upgrade.
    Each digital back can delivery very special and different look as it was in film days..

    I tried to work with CMOS sensors, but the colors and the overall result absolutely did not satisfy me.
    If I had one day to upgrade, I hope there will be a possibility to find a new full frame CMOS back with 6 micon sensor.

    How stands the 28mm Digitar in comparadtion with Rodenstock Alpars 28 and 32 mm?

    I must say that queasiness of Rodenstocks and their size play a significant negative role for me.
    As well as distortion, which I hate. Even though it can be removed by software.

    I am photographer of historic architecture and automobiles.
    Sometimes I make a panorama -15 + 15 mm

    Im architecture and vintage cars photographer, based in the Czech Republic.

    Thanks for Your feedback!

    David
    Hi David
    The 28mm is still one of my favourite lenses.
    I shoot Hassie H3D 39 - a Kodax Sensor. I believe the 28mm may be problematic on Dalsa sensors. There are in depth Get DPI posts in the past which you would need to look at to see how problematic. I seem to remember if you are looking at 15mm shift that may cause problems with the P65. I can easily shoot 15mm shift with the 28mm on the H3D 39.

    There is zero distortion with this lens. If you shoot architecture Schneiders are always a pleasure to work with because of this. I shoot my commercial these days mostly with a Sony A7rii setup with Canon TS lenses. The distortion even with the EVF can be a pain. Especially with one point perspectives combined with say shift left than shift right.

    The Rodie 28mm has very little shift. The 32mm more and on more types off sensor so there is that to consider but it's a tank and very pricy. The Schneider is like the 32mm tack sharp. It will get you more shift than both Rodies BUT only on the right sensor.

    The centre filter is a must have for the Schneider 28mm if you do a lot of shift. The Schneider app adds more time to work flow and isn't as affective when you are using a lot of shift.

    Hope that helps

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    Re: Rodenstock 28mm HR VS Schneider Super Digitar 28XL

    Hy David
    The 28 XL is my favorite lens for architecture. I use it with a P25+ and P40+.

    15 mm shift can be problematic with the P65+. With the P40+ is 15 mm (x-Axis) the maximum for me.
    Also sharpness isn't good enough at F11 beyond 15 mm (x-Axis and P40+), if you need tack sharp corners. But until 14 mm it's amazing!
    The LCC in C1-10 works really well and fast.
    I recognized that the vignetting with the P25+ is stronger as with the P40+. Also in relation to the sensor size.
    That means the Dalsa has less vignetting but more color cast than the Kodak.

    @ Enda: Don't you have ghosting problems with the Centerfilter? It is not a problem solver for me. It's a terrible problem maker!
    Schneider CFs are all weak in backlight situations but the CF for the 28 is a disaster for me. When I use it I have very often some ghosting in the middle of the image circle.
    I can't foresee when it happens but it must be an internal reflection. The Rodenstock CFs are in this area better, but the lenses are more prone to flare....
    I have attached two pictures (15mm shift up), one with and one without CF to illustrate. Look at the gray steel column in the middle. This behavior forced me to shoot without CF
    and work with Dan Lindbergs method: "..., I shoot a two stop overexposure and blend in those corners."

    Regards,
    Ben
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    Re: Rodenstock 28mm HR VS Schneider Super Digitar 28XL

    Hi Enda,
    Hi Ben,

    Thank you for your comments, they are really very helpful for me!
    I am glad that the lens is still alive and in use among photographers.
    It sounds positively to me what You say. Ill try to find one. Ill share some fotos and experiences than.
    I am also glad, the Hi-end photographers are so friendly with each other and are able to be of assistance!

    Thank You!

    All the best!
    David

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