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Thread: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

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    Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    Well I have decided to take the plunge and start climbing the learning curve with lights.

    I am fascinated by all the different effects one can get with those large parabolic dishes.

    I understand that all three makers above have their versions and takes on the matter. What I would like to know is - do they all have the Briese moving light within the parabola capability?

    Also if anyone has a strong opinion based on use regarding the relative strengths and weaknesses of the various makers listed above - please let me know.

    I understand that I will be up for some serious cashola -but over time I want to build a system which will allow me to do full scale people shots /portraits/and product lighting

    I think a 20x60 foot shed will be ample sized studio space.

    Thanks
    Pete

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    The Broncolor is my favorite of the umbrella's and packs.. The Briese packs and heads are very hard to put together and they brake allot. I've been working with them for years and they do make great light, but so does the Broncolor. I would stray away form the Profoto if your looking for a great umbrella.

    Here is NYC most people use B2PRO witch is VERY similar to the briese lights but allot of the issues where fixed by making there own packs and heads but leaving the design almost the same.

    The focusing on the Bron umbrellas is allot easier than the Briese or the Profoto. its done with a little knob on the head.

    The flash duration on the Bron is going to be faster than the Briese and the Profoto as well...

    B-!


    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Well I have decided to take the plunge and start climbing the learning curve with lights.

    I am fascinated by all the different effects one can get with those large parabolic dishes.

    I understand that all three makers above have their versions and takes on the matter. What I would like to know is - do they all have the Briese moving light within the parabola capability?

    Also if anyone has a strong opinion based on use regarding the relative strengths and weaknesses of the various makers listed above - please let me know.

    I understand that I will be up for some serious cashola -but over time I want to build a system which will allow me to do full scale people shots /portraits/and product lighting

    I think a 20x60 foot shed will be ample sized studio space.

    Thanks
    Pete

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    Member VICTOR BT's Avatar
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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    pete... more or less all companies have more or less same stuff. and broncolor, profoto, hensel and alike, all do great stuff for what it is, some have more "unique" tools, that are actually not so unique, but are different from what become standard in still photography over the year. all do softboxes, and they are about the same, all do reflectors and they are about the same more or less. profoto zoom reflector (esp the new one) is great, Balcar has the best 30cm (12") metal reflector which is better than profoto magnum, and really Focusable, almost like Fresnel or Briese. Hensel has nice beauty dish that can give slightly more modifications than others.
    but again, they are good, and about the same more or less...

    there are two companies that make Idiosynchratic stuff - like no one else...
    Briese, and Dedolight. here we are talking about the real masters tools. Briese have the master already Built-in, and maybe, if there is any drawback to this system is that its "look" has something pre-dominant, even if it spectacularly beautiful. Dedolight from the other hand, needs more work, but nothing is more focused and controllable as their Spots. they come only as continuous light though.

    another very good company is Bacht-studio from germany. they adapt typical movie spot lights so that it can work with flash - fitted to any generator. The Fresnel (medium and small) that profoto has, are actually made by them. these are top quality classic Fresnel lights, that u can use Directly or Indirectly, but classic means that nothing special about them, except that fact that a flash tube is fitted inside sucessfully. Hensel also has a big Arri fitted to flash, but that one is really big. broncolor has very big Flooter, beautiful, but nothing special beyound classic Fresnel in terms of light quality. it just allows u to put the normal pulso head into the Flooter house.

    as for umbreallas, it depends, if u just need soft broad light, then profoto and bron-para can do it too... if u want the best master tool in this type of light - Briese.

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    Thanks Brett and Victor - I think I am going to have to have a few demonstrations with all teh gear.

    Victor I was considering Dedolights a while back - but I want the parabolic dish style of light to start with -can dedolights be used in such a large scale dish?

    I also understand that there are different strategies for focussing the light within one of these large dishes..I have seen teh Briese approach and I like it...but is is hard to buy the stuff down here Australia..

    PS - Some great portraits you have on your site..

    Pete

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    pete, thanks...
    i doubt u can use any parabolic dish with dedolight.... dedolight spots can hardly be used with softboxes, because their light beam is SO precise that no light splits around, no bouncing etc. it is a perfect tool for use with reflective and diffusion panels instead of softboxes/para-umbrellas.
    Dedolight makes dedicated soft lights, with specially adapted softboxes... i have not tried them yet, but talking with dedolight just while ago about their new 1200spot and 7foot pan-aura, it seems that the 7foot octobox quality is dedolight, but the character is far from Briese.
    as for different strategies... Profoto is simply not a match for the mastery and quality u achieve with briese... im not all that familiar with bron para, but it seems somewhat inbetween briese and profoto, but still far from Briese... a special attention is usually given to huge umbrellas, but try out the medium and small ones to see what a wonder they can do, i think it is here where Briese is without any equvalent.

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    A recent demonstration by a NYC Fashion photographer encourages me to make this reply. I would not question in any way the value or virtue of the strobes/lighting you describe as your goal for understanding lighting. But just to offer another possible pathway to understanding artificial lighting, I'd like to suggest you not overlook the simpler (and far cheaper) "hot" lights.

    The fashion pro who provided the demonstration wanted to impress upon our local group of amateurs that lighting doesn't have to cost a fortune and can often be accomplished very successfully with materials at hand. He demonstrated three "sets" that used "found" materials to modify his lights. One was lit with lowepro hot lights, one with a utility light setup you might find at a construction site, and the third was lit by an old movie-set "Baby" spotlight purchased for $25 at a flea market.

    Each set had a background (simple muslin) and with the exception of the baby spot, used large pieces of reflector material into which the lights were aimed. Those reflectors (both of which were 8-10 feet high), were comprised of two panels of reflective material formed into a "V" that bounced the light back onto the subject beautifully and evenly. He kept the lights/reflectors close to the subjects and modified them as necessary with diffusion (an old piece of white parachute material) and/or reflectors.

    The results were beautiful, professional, and very easy to see right through the viewfinder as you framed the shot. Very impressive and a great way to learn lighting since what you see is what you get. Plus, everything included in all three sets would probably be cheaper than even one of the strobe units you've listed. Not as portable perhaps, but if you're building a shed to act as studio, that's not an issue.

    So, just a thought. Best of luck with your new direction.
    Tim

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    Excellent comment Tim, and one I'd basically agree with. The big reflectors are nice -- but really shine (pun intended) in a big, open studio environment with high, industrial ceilings. Actually pretty difficult to put them to optimal use in a restricted space like a garage or great room.

    That said, owning pro quality packs and heads is probably worthwhile simply from the added control and output quality (and consistency) available. So now that I'm here I'll add my .02 recos:

    For battery-powered location work, I prefer Elinchroms since they're environmentally sealed and readily available and have lots of accessories. Hensel makes great stuff too, just not stocked around here. Profoto battery units are fine indoors, but I've seen more than one fry when exposed to a light drizzle outdoors.

    Indoor AC units. Here I think Profoto makes the best packs, heads and modifiers available, hands down. However, Bron is probably as excellent, again, I just cannot get my hands on them locally. (Heck, I couldn't even get firm pricing from the rep when I tried to buy some!!!) I would rank the rest as seconds or thirds to the above. That said, I personally now shoot with Elinchrom packs because that's what I chose for my battery-powered sets and like not having to mix and match modifier mounts.

    Monos or packs? I like both for different applications. Monos are nice when you have to schlep them any distance, but they are a huge PITA when they're the light up on a tall stand -- much nicer to have a pack on the ground for the tall lights. Then there is power. Most packs have more power than most monos, plus it's easier to place a pair of heads in a large box for more even output than it is to place two monos in a box.

    A note on power -- yes you can have too much! While most of us probably think more is better, many of the more powerful units will not dial down enough for an ISO 100/f8 exposure at tabletop lighting distances. (there are tricks around that, but beyond the scope of this discussion.) So be sure to pay attention to maximum as well as minimum output.

    FInally, if possible I'd buy used. Lighting takes a pretty good hit after time, and buying a generation or even two old lighting will save you tons of cash, and yet they probably hold their resale value well enough you can get your money out after a couple years of use.

    Best,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    Tim, i started photography and lighting just like that... in fact, even today i have discomfort using flash accessories... i feel that i should "shape my own light", and not be restricted to this or that light-shaper...
    i learned the theory of photography from Ansel Adam's book, that is it... then my own experiments, passion... with table lamp and white paper and silver foil on a card to see how it bounces, diffused etc.... there are many photographs from that time, with so called studnets camera like pentax-mx and that light, nudes and portraits and some conceptual stills that im still proud and exited to look at, and even surprised.
    i have lots of portraits made with simple transparaent umbrella, or simple compact soft box... if i was to "say" to Briese 77cm super-umbrella that i've made photographs with simple transparent umbrella and that the light looks equally beautiful, the 77 would laugh like crazy.
    if needed, any photographer that loves light will do it with table lamp, or simple tungsten unit and simple umbrella. but, if there is briese and it excites for light-quality and maybe even for fanciness, why not ?
    why use one of the medium format backs ? more or less the same reason, quality of what it can produce, and fanciness too. it is not the only condition for good photography, and sometimes not even the main... but it is epitome of equipment finesse for the art and craft.

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    Victor, I agree 100%. It is up to each individual to choose his or her own path to their goal. I love to read about the new ground that many break here and enjoy the excitement vicariously through their (often) expensive new directions.

    But just occasionally, and with nothing but the best of intentions, I like to suggest that there are other alternatives to simply "buying the best". It does nothing to undermine the secure stature of the best equipment, and who knows, it might accidentally inspire someone to do something with what they've already got instead of thinking they have to wait until they can afford the very best.

    Having said that, I am not ignorant of the fact that for those who are not challenged by a budget, there is joy in owning and using the best. Why the hell not?

    Tim

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    Damn Peter you beat me to it!!!! I was just going to literally start a thread with all three light manufacturers in the title. But seriously thanks, I would like to better understand the strengths and weaknesses from real pros who've actually used the stuff -- this forum is MUCH more serious than so many of the others you might find online.

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    Actually, you guys are helping me a lot in discussing the creative low budget options as well as the "best" ... actually, my plan is once I get the S2 to get more acclimated with it in every way at first for a couple months, not invest in lighting right off the bat. But shoot outdoors, experiment with the kinds of things you are discussing using the light around me ... and only later invest in high-end lighting.

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    Guys, I'm hoping we can also isolate the strengths and weaknesses of each brand,
    although I'm guessing it's subjective as well. This is my impression from reading lots
    of forum posts and speaking to several pros who work with a lot of lights.

    Briese

    Pros:
    - Brand cache like Leica (can give your set "prestige")
    - Very sturdy/solid
    - More possible adjustments
    - Better performance (?)
    - More consistent performance (?)
    - More subtle/artistic quality (very subjective, but heard this from several shooters)

    Cons:
    - EXPENSIVE
    - Hard to order
    - Hard to find accurate pricing
    - Few dealers/support
    - No stock stateside
    - Not easily rentable
    - Bulky/heavy

    Broncolor

    Pros:
    - Closest to Briese in performance
    - Good reliability
    - Lots of options
    - Great availability
    - Better dealer support

    Cons:
    - Still very expensive

    Profoto

    Pros:
    - Best overall "value" (lowest prices)
    - Still delivers solid performance
    - Best availability and stock
    - Best US support (company and dealer)
    - Lots of options
    - Best packs and generators

    Cons:
    - Not quite as high quality
    - Not as sturdy/robust on certain items
    - Not as adjustable as some of the Briese or Broncolor gear

    Of course I'm sure MANY will have different experiences ... and it also largely depends
    on which items we are comparing. Briese may produce the best reflectors/umbrellas but
    not the best generators, etc. I'm basically just summarizing what I've heard to begin the
    discussion. Curious as to what others have actually experienced here ...

    Anthony

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    Victor, Tim and Jack thanks for your thoughts.

    Tim I have a number of DIY ElCheapo deluxo setups tried and true involving nothing more than small all white reflective encolusers made out of large construction foam - thes ecan work well for half person shots but difficult to iclude more thna one person - still yes necessity is the mother of invention

    Jack I will have access to 20' high ceilings - we make 'real sheds' down under still your thoughts re equipment ar emost welcome - down here ALL the gear you mention is as difficult to source as any other gear and I wil lbe buying from E%%%Y place or importing.

    One of the first set-ups I want is a simple white table and approariate lighting - it shoudl make it easy for me to make photographs of all the gear I want to sell - because I dont use it!

    Finally ( Anthony) - sorry if I inadvertantly 'stole' your idea for a thread !

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    Btw, anyone know and can recommend a collapsable reflector, like Profoto's zoom reflector? I love my zoom reflector, but its inconvenient to pack for travel.

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    Curious place to post your question, on the end of a year old thread.

    Put the Zoom reflector in your luggage and stuff it with your socks.

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    Peter, any further explorations on this subject?

    -Marc

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    Okay, let me jump in here...

    I have used and own few of this brands, now in the process of reading my self of two brands in favor of the ultimate one, BRIESE.

    Make no mistake, that lighting it is your PEN and INK, if you don't have a good Pen you might be able to write just the same but if the Pen looses INK left and right, and or its strokes aren't the same over and over, then your story wan't read properly and look like crap on paper, well... LIGHTING IS THE SAME!!

    Many lighting companies offer different things, not al company build the same lights, not all companies build within the same margins, and definitely not all companies and or products have the same results.

    I like Broncolor, and I like Profoto and own several of their systems, but when it comes to the light spectrum direction and reflection offered by the control FOCUS system of the BRIESE FOCUS there is nothing like it, and I mean NOTHING LIKET IT!!


    BTW: B2PRO were sued and lost against BRIESE for having stolen and copied their products, not a good business in my book.

    The BRIESE FOCUS CINEMA Lights, which I only use in HMI, I just DON'T use Tungstens, and also for Flash use, but lately I have come to much prefer Continuos light yet still immensely enjoy the Look, Fill, and texture given by the Briese Focus system and their Materials.

    So much so that I am shooting my next Movie with this Fixtures with Continuos HMI lighting, as well as shoot the RED EPIC for Frame Grabs extraction for a Fashion Project for Print, in which I will also might use some Profoto Flash units.

    They are yes Very Expensive, and not easy to find around, but the BRIESE web site is very comprehensive in their description and ordering is been super easy for me Anthony, possibly you have gotten some crap by low end dealers, other then that, you choose you order you pay and they deliver...

    In over 30 years of Still Photography and most recent 15 in Cinematography, I have used just about anything to light up a scene, form Candles to House hold light bulbs and you name it, Tungstens, LED's, HMI's, Gas lights, Chinese Globes, and so on and on, yet at the end of the day, every application has its needs, but for my type of work and what I like most, aside form few Super Powerful 18k HMI's to punch thru as the Sun or Thru the Sun, I prefer LED's and mostly now moving completely to the BRIESE FOCUS CINEMA system.

    We all have our preferences, and most, like my self in the past, have BUDJET constrains, now fortunately I don't have them any more so I can afford the absolute very best, and that is BRIESE.

    This again is my Expert Opinion, after I have been working on all available lights for years now, in different fields, form Still Photography to Cinematography, both in 2D and in 3D, and the way BRIESE allows me to light up my Subjects and my Scenes is just Marvelous!!

    Oh, and if I was to make an example... Comparing other lights in question here to the BRIESE is like comparing the 35mm cameras to the MF ones, there is those that see it and those that don't, I DO...

    Yeah I am a freak of LIGFHT...


    BTW: Good seen you here Anthony...
    email me if you need any assistance in ordering the BRIESE.

    Yvonne Kappes has been great...

    Briese Lichttechnik [email protected]
    Last edited by KETCH ROSSI; 6th February 2012 at 04:35.

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    Briese Lighting verses everything else ... what a NASA rocket is to a kid with a kite.

    Briese Lighting_Creativity - YouTube

    Briese Lighting website - Google Search

    -Marc

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    He he... You got me Marc, but I tell you I have been after this for a long time...

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    Sh*t, sh*t ..... shut up.. I have been offered a Briese setup not too long ago and was very upset about it. It is really expensive but unfortunately not so expensive I could put it out of my mind right away.

    I don't want to read this!

    For now I am using the new Profoto 240 and very happy with it but the Briese is still calling like a siren.

    There was also no problem converting the Briese lighthead to my Profoto pack which made it even more interesting.

    Maybe I will get the Focus180 instead of the new Profoto 6ft...

    How do you mean MF is expensive? Try lighting.

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    maybe I can dissuade you all...having worked with b2pro for several years I have seen the best and worst of the equipment so let me focus on the negative since we all know the positive..

    setup in not simple, the small umbrellas pop together relatively easily but the 220 and 330cm require some serious force to expand and unlike the broncolor there is no crank setup. Find a wall and push basically. Collapsing is even harder.

    If you happen to put a little too much weight on the ribs of one of these puppies be prepared for breakage- the ribs are fragile at the connection points despite being made from carbon fibre- I've seen a few broken, (my fault sometimes) they shear off at that connection point to the collar. Big bucks replacing them.

    Once you do get thing setup we haven't even started down the path of needing a gennie for the 2.5k hmi, (220 volt) - household only fires the 575 and 1.2k ballasts. Go into a location with bad power and you can spend lots of time chasing blown fuses, or running stingers around looking for good outlets.

    Bulbs- they all age differently and depending on age the colour balance can can vary as much as 1500k and many points of green/magenta- bring your gels. For example, setup two or three umbrellas on a neutral grey wall and the colour temp difference will positively scream out at you-half of the wall will be yellow and the other half blue.

    Did I mention efficiency? Unlike strobe where you can dial power up and down with HMI it is fixed by the ballast/bulb combo- as we all know the power needs can get ridiculous fast if you are lighting a large area in depth with HMI. I am routinely using 5 or 6 ballasts between 2.5 and 575k, a total wattage of about 6k+ and getting only f8 1/60 ISO 400 on the subject. I know that sounds crazy but you light a whole room with 20ft ceilings and black objects and call me back.

    Of course I love the quality, the focusing, the hard/soft feeling, but really, with a 1 stop silk on the front of a 180cm umbrella is it really any different than an octa? I don't think so.

    there are good reasons to use the briese and as we all move to combination film/motion capture it will just be more to the point but 90% of your work is usually accomplished with two or three lights at most, and that light is either hard, soft, or somewhere in-between. If it is soft then photons are generic once they leave the silk. Hard and hard/soft I'll grant you that focusing and collimation make huge differences, but it hard to beat a fresnel, and you don't need briese to use a fresnel.

    forgot to mention your model- their eyes...they will not like you for using briese. Very hard to look into a 100cm silver umbrella with a 1.2k bulb blazing inside. You get real tears. Strobe is so much friendlier.

    still want to pony up for the briese tax?
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    Quote Originally Posted by robertwright View Post
    forgot to mention your model- their eyes...they will not like you for using briese. Very hard to look into a 100cm silver umbrella with a 1.2k bulb blazing inside. You get real tears. Strobe is so much friendlier.
    True, but not specific to Briese.

    I've shot fashion with the Profoto HMIs in their 7' and 8' umbrellas (so video could be shot simultaneously.) The models hated it and the makeup artists were kept running.

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    Quote Originally Posted by robertwright View Post

    still want to pony up for the briese tax?

    Thank you for putting me with my feet back on the ground. Me and my wallet love you

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    I love when the Gods come down from Olympus and tempt us with rare fruits

    I've worked both sides of the street ... enjoying partial retirement in my well equipped but modest studio schlepping around like a one man band doing 5 people's job .... and as an ad agency Executive CD commanding multi-million dollar production budgets that line an LA location street with gear, prop, and generator semis (even one with a full blown kitchen in it!) ... not to mention sets populated by more folks than a small town. It's like being mayor of "Shootville" for a day

    I've documented shoots like this with my Leica, and really need to copy the prints to share with my GetDpi buddies here ... it's an eye opener that you don't see in many glamorous "behind the scenes" videos accompanied by pulse raising, thumping music and choirs of angles in skimpy underwear

    Point is, Olympian gear is usually very specific, and one has to weigh the cost/use ratio against what one actually shoots and how often ... especially one man bands. Thanks to Robert for bringing all this back to earth.

    Shooting for fun or modest pay differs greatly from wielding an $800K budget for a single shoot. Expert lighting grips make all this stuff look easy ... I swear, some I've worked with are mind-readers.

    I've attempted to build a diverse spread of lighting solutions that allow me to express ideas over a wider spectrum of studio/location applications ... which by itself has far outstripped any camera expenses ... and I have a LOT of camera stuff.

    I'd like to add only a few things now ... some fresnel strobe heads, and one big Para. Right now I'm leaning toward the new 75" Hensel TERABOX Deep Space ... that has a 40" deep Para shape ... knowing that it pales in comparison but still delivers some of that focused sharp but soft light quality I can't get with my big Octas.

    HENSEL-VISIT GmbH & Co. KG:*Terabox Deep Space

    -Marc

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    Quote Originally Posted by robertwright View Post
    maybe I can dissuade you all...having worked with b2pro for several years I have seen the best and worst of the equipment so let me focus on the negative since we all know the positive..

    setup in not simple, the small umbrellas pop together relatively easily but the 220 and 330cm require some serious force to expand and unlike the broncolor there is no crank setup. Find a wall and push basically. Collapsing is even harder.

    If you happen to put a little too much weight on the ribs of one of these puppies be prepared for breakage- the ribs are fragile at the connection points despite being made from carbon fibre- I've seen a few broken, (my fault sometimes) they shear off at that connection point to the collar. Big bucks replacing them.

    Once you do get thing setup we haven't even started down the path of needing a gennie for the 2.5k hmi, (220 volt) - household only fires the 575 and 1.2k ballasts. Go into a location with bad power and you can spend lots of time chasing blown fuses, or running stingers around looking for good outlets.

    Bulbs- they all age differently and depending on age the colour balance can can vary as much as 1500k and many points of green/magenta- bring your gels. For example, setup two or three umbrellas on a neutral grey wall and the colour temp difference will positively scream out at you-half of the wall will be yellow and the other half blue.

    Did I mention efficiency? Unlike strobe where you can dial power up and down with HMI it is fixed by the ballast/bulb combo- as we all know the power needs can get ridiculous fast if you are lighting a large area in depth with HMI. I am routinely using 5 or 6 ballasts between 2.5 and 575k, a total wattage of about 6k+ and getting only f8 1/60 ISO 400 on the subject. I know that sounds crazy but you light a whole room with 20ft ceilings and black objects and call me back.

    Of course I love the quality, the focusing, the hard/soft feeling, but really, with a 1 stop silk on the front of a 180cm umbrella is it really any different than an octa? I don't think so.

    there are good reasons to use the briese and as we all move to combination film/motion capture it will just be more to the point but 90% of your work is usually accomplished with two or three lights at most, and that light is either hard, soft, or somewhere in-between. If it is soft then photons are generic once they leave the silk. Hard and hard/soft I'll grant you that focusing and collimation make huge differences, but it hard to beat a fresnel, and you don't need briese to use a fresnel.

    forgot to mention your model- their eyes...they will not like you for using briese. Very hard to look into a 100cm silver umbrella with a 1.2k bulb blazing inside. You get real tears. Strobe is so much friendlier.

    still want to pony up for the briese tax?

    Well Robert, your points are good ones, yet are not simply just related to the BRIESE, when it comes to the largest Size Parabolic they all share similarities, not just BRIESE, same with Broncolor and or any other brand, just that the quality of the lighting form BRIESE is so unique, that puts it all in to perspective.

    I have used them all, literally, and then some, which have never made it to market, as I have over 18 signed NDA's in the Industry for different things few of which are for Parabolic lighting, BRIESE Broncolor style.

    I'm a little guy, at 5.7" yet I can push open the 220 no problem, it snaps, yes, but so does propping open the Black Out Tents, it is just a matter of knowing exactly how and were to apply pressure.

    If you think Models don't like them, then try come to a Movie Set with me were we have 6 x 18K HMI's blasting down at the Talent... ITS COOKING TIME!!

    But we are all professionals, and must take a little of suffering in order to get the glory...

    But yes, if your first BRIESE, then should be anything till the 180, and leave the 220 and 330 MONSTER, but insanely GORGEOUS for a later time, or were you always are in company, this are not to be used by a single handed Photographer, but with me even when I'm alone, I always put the girls to work... And they love it!!

    As far as Power requirements, well, that is of course a common sense, if you want to Drive a Ferrari you better have the money to put GAS in it, and know the consumption so you don't get cut in the middle of the Road with an empty thank...

    I use BIG lights, and Genny's which are Hard mounted on to a TRUCK, some times this are 16 wheelers, if any Professional buys a light, and does not look at the power requirements, then He'She is not a Pro in my book, as they need to know what they are doing far before going in buying any type of light, or always higher a DP/Gaffer to take care that for you.

    Continuos Lighting is an other animal all together, its no FLASH, so one needs to be well informed on how it works and its needs.

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    Well thanks to all the great posts - I just saw the thread has resurfaced...

    Marc I have come some way since my first questions and it has ended up a very interesting journey - far from complete and a good way to go.

    I will be constructing a cyclorama for the project I have in mind the cyclorama will be a cube measuring 7 meters roughly in each dimension.

    The shooting space will have to be large enough to accommodate everything from a small pot plant to a 150 horsepower tractor. So I will house the shooting cube in a large shed on a farm.

    The project will require the ability to shoot the equivalent of full sunlight in the area as well as light painting with LED and dedolights in pitch black.

    I have decided on going continuous lighting for the project - because it is still life.

    I have decided that Briese is my first choice for their focus system and I have calculated that I will need one 140 and one 330 for the bright lighting requirements of the project. Dedolights and some custom LED's I am having made up will handle the black out work.

    As for power It wont be an issue for me as my sheds always have normal 220-240volt at any amp I want to set up because of my natural power set up I use to run my woodwork and metal work machinery I don't expect to have any problem.

    The most important and difficult part of the job will be maintaining a very consistent light temp throughout all the shooting - which will take place over a year - I want the light to surround the subject matter and do no more than let the subject matter do the talking. Success will be if no one actually notices the lighting.

    I am now currently investigating various film maker lighting gear to see if I can get away with not having to pay up for Briese.

    Pete

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    Such an interesting project by the sound of it Peter...

    The only absolute way to maintain control in the Kelvin over the shoot of the entire year, is to first of all, of course make sure that there is absolutely never any light coming in form outside of your chosen structure, either day or night.

    Secondly you need to make sure that which ever lights chosen have their Bulbs as new, yet Broken in, as some lights require to be burned in for several days before maintaining a steady Kelvin, while others need to be first warmed up regularly before reaching their given Kelvin, once you have this done that the only thing you need to worry about are the positioning and opening of the BRIESE, as they too will give you of course different lighting, not the Kelvin, but different trow and Softness or Harshness depending on distance form subject and or if moved to different walls, what type of light spectrum will be reflected by those walls.

    I'm sure you are already calculating all of this, just want to trow it in there, and best of luck to you...
    Last edited by KETCH ROSSI; 8th February 2012 at 07:42.

  28. #28
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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    p.chong profoto zoom is as small as it gets. the smallest parabolic is briese 44, one of the most beautiful among hard lights, but even when collapsed it is bigger than the zoom.

    pete... if those are only still-life sets, u might go with dedolight in general. to control the softness and the floodness, u can use various filters/fabrics. rosco and matthews for example have lots of different materials to defuse and preserve tthe glimmer of light, or simply find any balance u like with some experimentation.

    dedolights are super efficient in practice compared to their power, enough for portrait sessions, smaller interior and location sets etc, but they are somewhat limited when u want to flood light into a really big set. in bigger sets, they are great when u want to direct them into selected areas, because they have such a clean and controllable beam of light. they are also great if u want to combine multiples, but they are no substitute for a powerful light (from about 2.5k and on) when u need that. still-life is less hungry for power.

    dedolight are unique hard lights. because of the lens (the whole mechanism), the hard light that falls onto subject (skin, fabric, metal or whatever) is never harsh, shadows cleanly shaped, hilights/hot-spots smooth, and surfaces are well defined yet with sublime tactility. very difficult to explain, but the way they render is amazing.

    also, because of their accuracy and beam quality wherever they fall, u can use them with thinner diffusers (frosts, silks, etc), or a bit harder reflecting materials for bounce. in that case, obviously, u will loose the dedolight easiness in controlling light - no more sharp cuttings and blockings with barndoors etc. anyway, briese (or any other light) does not allow that much control either - no soft/big light that is flooded into set can be controlled without bigger flags in any case.

    robert, true, when indoors, in dark surrounding and such... but then, even arrisun 12 with frosted lens can feel like "blazing" sometimes

  29. #29
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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    mark, absolutely true, many of the olympian equip as u call it are better left for renting simply because there are not manageable without a good team, even if the photographer or director knows what to do with it. some others are doable for one man band or small team. if budget allows, and one knows to make the difference between the standard stuff and the olympian alternatives, then it worth the extra effort. the "olympian stuff" have some olympian magic and finesse in many cases, not only high esteem

    Fresnel - hensel has an adopted arri head, with 30cm fresnel lens. it is great, though big.
    Bacht (Studio-Service Bacht GmbH - Herzlich Willkommen bei der Studio-Service Bacht GmbH) has three, small, medium (7kg, manageable even as one man band, with nice cine stand), and big (very similar to hensel. bacht has virtually 100% flash/model. hensel also has small spot, but it is limited and has no absolute flash/model.
    also, for HMI, there's something new and really exiting - K5600 big-eye, a collapsable 60cm Fresnel, where u can put 200, 400 or 800 jocker-bugs. bulky, but still manageable without a special alpha/delta light-grip team
    VICTOR BEN TZVI
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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    Hi Victor,

    I will be using Dedolights for their exact light projection capabilities - when background will be black. The Briese or similar is for flooded sunlight look. Each subject will be shot in two modes - bright bright sunlight with wrap around lighting on subject - and black black lighting with spot illumination - yin and yang if you like.

    Pete

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    Quote Originally Posted by VICTOR BT View Post
    mark, absolutely true, many of the olympian equip as u call it are better left for renting simply because there are not manageable without a good team, even if the photographer or director knows what to do with it. some others are doable for one man band or small team. if budget allows, and one knows to make the difference between the standard stuff and the olympian alternatives, then it worth the extra effort. the "olympian stuff" have some olympian magic and finesse in many cases, not only high esteem

    Fresnel - hensel has an adopted arri head, with 30cm fresnel lens. it is great, though big.
    Bacht (Studio-Service Bacht GmbH - Herzlich Willkommen bei der Studio-Service Bacht GmbH) has three, small, medium (7kg, manageable even as one man band, with nice cine stand), and big (very similar to hensel. bacht has virtually 100% flash/model. hensel also has small spot, but it is limited and has no absolute flash/model.
    also, for HMI, there's something new and really exiting - K5600 big-eye, a collapsable 60cm Fresnel, where u can put 200, 400 or 800 jocker-bugs. bulky, but still manageable without a special alpha/delta light-grip team
    Thanks Victor.

    FYI, Hensel lists a number of strobe type Fresnels, Including some more demure sized ones.

    HENSEL-VISIT GmbH & Co. KG:*Spotlights

    -Marc

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    Hi Jack,

    What is your current Elinchroms setup for outdoors? Thanks.

    Subrata

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    I was referring to Jack's post on Jan 12th, 2011.

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    IF YOU USE BRIESE LIGHTING YOU MIGHT WANT TO SEE THIS !
    AFTER YEARS OF LITAGATION B2PRO FINALY GETS JUSTICE FROM THE UNITED STATES PATENT OFFICE !

    HANS WEINER BRIESE EXPOSED AS A FRAUD

    Its been a long uphill battle that frankly should have never happened, but after years of litigation and patent review, the Briese patent has finally been exposed to be a FRAUD. The Briese Umbrella system patent is set to be revoked by the United States Patent Office. After careful review, the U.S.P.T.O. has issued a final office action rejecting the main claim in the Briese patent as being un patentable. Briese basically lifted content and ideas off of two previous American patents from the late 60ís and early 70ís. Hans Werner Briese has lost all credibility. B2PRO has argued all along that patent validity was the key point during trial. This long awaited final office action vindicates Brent Langton, Sergio Ortiz Gavin and B2PRO.




    From the very beginning the Briese Lichttechnik company has engaged you the customer in a smear campaign against B2PRO, where they have spent many tireless nights writing defamatory letters and emails, all of which have been littered with misinformation and outright lies. On January 24, 2013 at approximately 3:15pm, Ken Robinson an agent of Briese Lichttechnik was arrested for burglarizing our New York City office. By his own admission he stole sensitive documents, intellectual property, and client contacts that later made it to the hands of Hans Werner Briese and his legal team. It is our understanding that subsequently following this theft he was working directly for Briese Lichttechnik. We Intend to set the record straight. Attached to this email you will find the letter of examination from the United States Patent Office which you are all free to read for yourselves, it is public information. This Final Office Action is in fact the final nail in the coffin for the Briese patent, and it appears as though all of the efforts by Hans Werner Briese to defame our character, and to force us into litigation, could not stop the United States Patent office from upholding justice. God Bless America.




    Hans Werner Briese and the Briese Lichttechnik Gmbh. will most certainly send out another shallow letter, perhaps claiming that they will appeal this Final Office Action all the way to our Supreme Court. Rest assured that the only difference between the U.S.P.T.O. Patent Final Rejection letter and the Supreme Court is that the Supreme Court comes with Guacamole & Sour Cream. Please take some time if you wish to read the Final Office Action which is attached below. We thank you for your loyalty.

    THE U.S.P.T.O ISSUED A 42 PAGE FINAL OFFICE ACTION REPORT REJECTING THE BRIESE LIGHTING SYSTEM PATENT AS '' UN-PATENTABLE '' IT IS PUBLIC RECORD . IF YOU NEED A COPY YOU CAN EMAIL ME AT [email protected] I WILL GLADLY E-MAIL YOU A LINK .

    S E R G I O O R T I Z G A V I N

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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto


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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    I find it odd someone joins a forum just to post a pointless dig at another manufacturer like the above post when there is no context or reply from the other party.

    One of them must have ripped off the other as Briese and the B2Pro reflectors are identical in pretty much every way even down to the terrible way in which there are opened and closed.

    At least Broncolor thought about their Para's and included some good innovation when they released their version in how they are erected (especially Para 88 and 133). The big Bron Para's are not just limited to the studio as they fold down a lot smaller are a much more modern and practical take on the Briese/B2Pro 70's/80's design.
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    Re: Briese /Broncolor /Profoto

    Just wanted to add to the discussion.

    Briese, for at least a year , manufacture and market their strobe heads, adapted to Broncolor and Prophoto. Have been using Briese Cubes for several years and now, when I got several Grafit A4 second hand, I am going to buy Broncolor version of the briese heads. I have had several cheap adaptations, made of Pulso Broncolor heads, they worked, but very unstable.

    I agree with the pro posters here: diffused Focus works just as a big bank or Octa, nothing can change the laws of physics. But Focus in the small range ( up to 140cm ) works very well in smaller studios with strobe, and still keep their unique character. I own a 180, and it is barely manageable. Bron Para 220 is better, if you work without a team of assistants.

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