Use of Vagabond Mini Lithium w/Profoto?

[fotografz]

I am thinking of getting a couple of the new Paul Buff Vagabond Mini Lithiums that clamp to the light stands to run each of my 120V Profoto Compact 600's.

Buff doesn't warranty use with anything but their lights, but it seems these batteries are pure sine wave and should be suitable.

I like this product over getting a Profoto Bat Pac because you can get 3 or four of them for less than the Bat Pac, and place the lights anywhere without extension cords running all over the place back to one main battery pack.

Any thoughts or experiences?

Thanks for any insights,

-Marc

 

[fotografz]

Further clarification from the Buff operating manual:

Note: All Paul C. Buff™ lights (including Einstein™ units) are designed to
tolerate this voltage drop (“Brown Out”), as can most purely analog studio flash
units, to varying degrees. However, most manufacturers of digitally controlled
studio flash units failed to anticipate operation with current limited inverters, and
designed the microprocessor power supplies to shut down at about 85VAC
input. Thus, many or most of such units will not tolerate operation with small
current limited inverters, and simply crash. This is particularly true when multiple
units are attached to a single inverter. In particular, Profoto brand units will generally
not operate from the Vagabond Mini™ Lithium.-

What I can't determine is whether they are talking about the new D1's which are digitally controlled ...
and the now discontinued analog Compacts will work?

Thoughts, experiences?

-Marc

 

[kdphotography]

Marc,

You'll probably get the standard disclaimer repeated by Buff, but I'd call their customer service line directly and talk with them. There are a lot of people using the Vagabond Mini Lithium with lights other than AB/WL with success, and I bet customer service can tell you if your Profoto Compact 600s will work or not.

That said, the VML is a nice portable option for power. It's not much bigger and only slightly heavier than a Quantum Turbo battery. Weakpoint is the clamp to attach it to a lightstand, but not hard to figure out alternative ways to attach. Charge holds well. Price point and portability is hard to beat.

ken

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I would love to know this as well with the D1 but will be out all communications starting today till Thursday . If someone checked please post any info learned. Thanks Guy

 

[kdphotography]

Got curious and started snooping around on the VML and Profoto. Open your wallet again!

Guy: See, http://www.vineet-suthan.com/blog/?p=1574
and see also, http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-11314-11226-11357 (update April 9 2011---Tavares reports to use BAT mode on D1)

Probably means you can open your wallet too Marc...

Buff makes the other light brand disclaimer on all his power sources, and from what I've read, only Bowens seems to have a notable problem with any portable power sources, not just VML.

 

[Bill_Green]

No personal experience, but rumor has it that 1 VML per Profoto Compact in bat mode works. Recycle is a bit slow, but otherwise no problems.

 

[fotografz]

Well this seems to say the D1 can work, but I'm curious about the Profoto Compacts which do not have a "Bat" selection ... they are not digitally controlled as far as I know, and have analog dials for settings.

-Marc

 

[Shelby Lewis]

.... the Bat setting was only for the D1 units (IIRC) so that the capacitor wouldn't draw so many amps at peak and cause a brown-out on inverter units. It basically throttled back the whole discharge/recycle process. I'm not certain about the compact 600's, but I'd bet you'll be ok (don't quote me on that).

I'm looking at going that way myself. 2 compact 600's and a pair of VML units.

I looked hard at the D1 units, but found that (besides build quality, which definitely counts for a lot) they just didn't offer enough for the premium paid. The air system is definitely slick, though... but as a mostly on-location shooter, I don't need all those capabilities.

I just want ruggedness and simplicity on location... probably a pair of compacts, some PW Plus II's, and a pair of VML units.

 

[fotografz]

Okay, got the answer right from Paul Buff.

NO. Nope. Nada. The Mini's will NOT work at all with any Profoto Compact. Will work with the D1 250, 500 and 1,000.

-Marc

 

[kdphotography]

Bummmmer, Marc----because the VML is such a nice, lightweight powersource at an attractive price.

 

[Shelby Lewis]

Okay, got the answer right from Paul Buff.

NO. Nope. Nada. The Mini's will NOT work at all with any Profoto Compact. Will work with the D1 250, 500 and 1,000.

-Marc

Oh... sorry for the misinformation, then.

Man, this blows. I was really hoping to go with compacts in tandem with the VML as well. I've also been looking at the Eli rx600 units, but I'm not a fan of the mount. The Buff Einstein 640's are truly the best budget stuff for the price right now (as far as feature set... great consistency, short duration on speed mode, decent power ), but they just look so damned silly. Shallow, I know, but I really want something robust that is also in keeping with the professional look of the profoto stuff.

The thought of my big RZ, digital back, Berlebach tripod, and then those "Einstein" logos just bothers me.

Back to the drawing board, I guess. Maybe the D1 units are the way to go.

 

[kdphotography]

....The thought of my big RZ, digital back, Berlebach tripod, and then those "Einstein" logos just bothers me.

....

There's nothing that a strip of duct tape can't solve.... :ROTFL:

(actually I think the einstein logo is a piece of plastic that you can pop off)

 

[Shelby Lewis]

There's nothing that a strip of duct tape can't solve.... :ROTFL:

yeah... but I'm still accountable to all my fellow gear sluts around here

 

[fotografz]

Bummmmer, Marc----because the VML is such a nice, lightweight powersource at an attractive price.

Yeah, by the time I buy a pair of D1 500s and the VMLs I might as well get the Hensel Porty L 1200 kit which is over-all smaller and more powerful, produces more flashes per charge, ... and also can be controlled by the Profoto AIR, or Hensel's Strobe Wizard radio system ... or the FreeMask (which I am very interested in anyway).

The attraction of the Compact Rs was that I already own them, and with the VMLs I could place them anywhere without cords running to a pack.

Shelby, if I were you, I'd just go with the Buff 640s and VLMs ... just put a bag over its head if it's to ugly for you :ROTFL: The only thing I don't know about the Buffs is what mount they use, but I have noted that more and more soft-box speed-rings are being offered in the Buff mount, so I don't think choice of modifiers will be an issue. Best of luck!

-Marc

 

[kdphotography]

Marc,

I recall seeing a "new" Hensel Porty L1200 kit in the buy/sell. I still want the Hensel L1200 lithium, but figured you'd give a us all a great review first. :ROTFL:

On the Buff Einstein light, the Buff mount is a weak link (imo), but it "works." Many modifier options are available, still quirky. One of my portable kits (transitionary pending your review of the Hensel ) is two Einsteins and the VML. I don't know how to describe it other than somewhat quirky but it works. Relatively small package and wireless flash sync up to 1/1600. Easy to use. VML battery pack is definitely the attraction.

ken

 

[Shelby Lewis]

Shelby, if I were you, I'd just go with the Buff 640s and VLMs ... just put a bag over its head if it's to ugly for you :ROTFL: The only thing I don't know about the Buffs is what mount they use...

The Buff strobes use the same mount as the old Balcars. It's a 4-pronged "claw" of sorts. I had a set of three AB400's for several years when I was first getting started and the mount worked fine... but it's definitely more delicate than the Profoto mount. Those lights never failed, but they had some strange quirks, electrically.

When the new Einsteins came out, the mount had some problems holding the new larger modifiers (PLM stuff), then was revised a bit. I've heard it's better now that they've tweaked the spring tension in the bayonet mount.

 

[Shelby Lewis]

Relatively small package and wireless flash sync up to 1/1600. Easy to use. VML battery pack is definitely the attraction.

Hey Ken... what trigger system are you using to get 1/1600 wireless sync with the Einsteins?

 

[kdphotography]

Hey Ken... what trigger system are you using to get 1/1600 wireless sync with the Einsteins?

Believe it or not, Buff's Cybersync. I use the CST transmitter with the CSXCV transceivers (fit into the Einstein). Otherwise, I use (and prefer) Pocket Wizards.

The CSXCV has delicate "pins" to protect, which include a foam cover. Pelican makes mini-cases which are perfect to store the CST and CSXCV when traveling. To tell you how "fond" I am of the Cybersync, I always travel with a set of Pocketwizards also. It's not that the Cybersync hasn't been reliable, it's just that I don't get that same warm and fuzzy feeling that Pocket Wizards impart.

ken

 

[David Schneider]

The Buff strobes use the same mount as the old Balcars. It's a 4-pronged "claw" of sorts. I had a set of three AB400's for several years when I was first getting started and the mount worked fine... but it's definitely more delicate than the Profoto mount. Those lights never failed, but they had some strange quirks, electrically.

I used Alien Bee B1600 on Larson 4x6 for a year and never had a problem with it. They are now on light accent strips now and Photogenics have taken their place on bigger modifiers (much better system), but that claw thing worked well. I will say, my AB's are probably 10 years old or older so very possibly different parts maker than the Einstein claw maker today.

 

[Shelby Lewis]

I will say, my AB's are probably 10 years old or older so very possibly different parts maker than the Einstein claw maker today.

I'm with you... the claw never let me down either with my AB400's for several years. I think they've been through 3 different iterations with the Einsteins... ,ostly having to do with spring tension. IIRC the v1 claw worked ok, then when they changed some things on the mount for heat reasons (among others) the spring tension was too low and people were having probs with large boxes and plm modifiers popping off... they then upped the tension on the spring and I think everything is ok now.