Profoto D1 or Hensel Integra Plus

[J.Look]

The OP is in Germany ... not the USA.

I know and I know the situation there quite well. I am from germany and I was working there with Hensel for about 15 years. In the US I think Hensel is not really an option anymore.

Working with assistants to adjust light levels is helpful, but not free. I would always prefer to adjust the lights from camera as opposed to having an assistant running from light to light ... especially lights in far rooms. That can be something of a circus act when working on a complex set ... including in concert with monos buried in a soft-box 12 feet in the air.

My assistants don't have to run from light to light. I usually use outdoor one or two lights and the assistants have the generator with them and the flash head on a boom. A lot faster and easier than setting up light stands outdoor.
Yes, with monos that could be more difficult why I mentioned that the D1 are lighter. And they can be controlled.

I also use the D1s with the PCB Vagabond mini batteries ... but only as a supplement if I need to light a larger outdoor location. I do not know what battery may power a Hensel Expert D. Since it is digital control, I'd ask the battery maker before buying anything.

The battery makers support their own brands. There is a list from Innovatronix from users but nothing about the Expert D

1200 w/s from one head is useful when overpowering the sun mostly because most people do NOT have 1/1600 sync speed cameras ... and really helpful if the light is at a distance from the subject no matter what camera you use.

Like I said I have 1200Ws if I need it but also with a Canon I never needed it after I changed my light formers. Many Hensel user are using their beauty dish outdoor. It is a very nice dish in the studio but not very effective when it comes to a high light output. The Profoto gives you almost 1 f-stop more and the Elinchrom deep octa almost 2 f-stops with a very similar light. Two f-stops means instead of 1200Ws you can use 300Ws.
The new profoto zoom reflector is also more effective than the Hensel standard reflectors (I had almost all of them)

In the end, I agree with Bill ... if you can afford Profoto, including any future generators and accessories, then go for it ... the modifier mount alone is worth it. If the investment is too much, then Hensel is a fine German made product that produces an excellent and consistent quality of light, and offers some very affordable and innovative modifiers ... some of which are not available elsewhere.

I agree

 

[Bill_Green]

Mounting the octabox is quite easy too, I just remove the baffle and grasp the softbox ring, clamp and go.

Thanks for the tip, I'll try that. I don't want to imply that the mount is weak, just clumsy. But I suppose any mount is clumsy next to Profoto.

 

[T.Karma]

One big "gotcha" with the Hensel lights that no one seems to mention is the speed ring is huge and you need shorter poles with most softboxes. If you have a big investment in Chimera or Plume softboxes, that could be a problem. I don't think the Octaboxes require the short poles. As a work around I discovered Hensel softboxes and they are excellent. If I could figure out how to put grids on them I wouldn't use anything else.

Broncolor are also really nice, but they fall into the category of "if you have to ask, you can't afford it." I have mostly ruled out Elinchrom based on the mount.

Actually I use only Chimeras sobos on Hensels and Broncolor lights and have not noticed a real problem with the size of the speed ring. Yes, the poles are stiffer to mount, but still manageable. Until today I have not managed to break one sobo because of that. OTOH if I had to assemble and disassemble them every day it may be worth taking care of that.

Regarding the price of Broncolor, it is the about the same as Profoto.

Broncolor is a bit lagging behind now on the monohead front, but have great new generators. Hensel OTOH is now lagging behind with their generators (except the new porty).
What I really do apprecheate on Broncolor (that noone mentions) is that their documentation is spot on. You get all the information, even for stuff that is history since long ago. For example, they are only company that always lists the the t0,1 value. As opposed to the others that do list the t0,5, just because it looks better.

 

[fotografz]

I think you need to look at what you can afford for your budget and what you will grow into. Profotos are nicer lights, particularly with the modifier mount and the flexibility of the zoom reflectors, and it is easy to rent additional Profoto packs/heads as needed. Hensels are a lot more bang for the buck, have less expensive domes and flash tubes, and you won't find them in rental houses in the U.S. While Marc is correct that the Profoto mount is nicer, I will say that the Hensel mount sucks. Not nearly as bad as Elinchrom, but I really don't like it.

I have no experience with the Hensel D lights, but on the whole I have been very impressed with the quality and durability of my Integra Plus lights. Marc is right that Strobe Wizard kind of sucks. I use it occasionally and it is very hand to have, but nine times out of 10 I just use Pocket Wizards. Capture One has a module that allows you full control over some Profoto Air lights and I don't think I would buy any more lights that I can't control via Capture One.

My general recommendation is that if your budget allows Profoto, get them. If you can't afford Profoto, buy Hensel and never look back. If the 5-stop range of the hensels isn't enough, you can knock them down with ND gels if you need. If you go the Hensel route, I would recommend the 9" reflector and grid kit -- for $400 you get shallow, medium, and long reflectors and 10, 20, 30, 40 degree grids. Of course on Profoto, the Zoom Reflector handles all of that, but you still need grids. Also, if you get Hensel you will need to buy a beauty dish for the simple reason that they are awesome.

One big "gotcha" with the Hensel lights that no one seems to mention is the speed ring is huge and you need shorter poles with most softboxes. If you have a big investment in Chimera or Plume softboxes, that could be a problem. I don't think the Octaboxes require the short poles. As a work around I discovered Hensel softboxes and they are excellent. If I could figure out how to put grids on them I wouldn't use anything else.

Broncolor are also really nice, but they fall into the category of "if you have to ask, you can't afford it." I have mostly ruled out Elinchrom based on the mount.

Bill, I'm not sure what the problem is with the Hensel speed ring size. I use a couple of Gary Register's Plume Wafers in studio and regularly switch back and forth between Hensel and Profoto speed-rings using the same modifier rods.

The modifiers I am loving these days are the super easy to set-up/tear-down Elinchrom Rotalux's due to so much location work ... I have both the 27" and 39" Rotalux Deep Octs, a smaller soft-box with egg-crate grid and have ordered the 59" Rotalux Inverse mount Deep Octa for use with a Quadra lithium (do not know if I can use other heads with this one yet).

I switched over the larger 39" Rotalux Deep Octa to the new Profoto mount Rotalux speed ring from Elinchrom ... because I also do not like the Elinchrom mount at all, especially for larger modifiers like the 39" Deep Octa ... not to mention the questionable thinner EL umbrella shaft requirement :wtf:

Most of the lighting solutions being discussed here, Profoto, Broncolor, and Hensel are splitting hairs ... the light quality is superb from all of them. Profoto and Broncolor usually slug it out at the top end trading top dog status with exotic generators in the $10K+ arena where only the bold and dedicated photo Gods go. For us mere mortals, any of these choices will deliver ... and depending on one's location/supply, the choice may be clearer. Hensel has some of the coolest and affordable tools, but has anemic support in the USA ... with many items requiring 6-10 weeks or more to get from Germany. If you tend to rent and are in the USA, Profoto is the obvious choice. I rarely rent because I do alot of different types of photography and also like to create on the fly, so I have waaaaaaay to many modifiers and exotic do-dads for the actual volume of work I do :ROTFL:

I do not agree with T Karma that Hensel lags in the studio generator arena, at least for mere mortals ... Their new Nova Packs are wonders of lighting engineering packed into a small box ... much better than the Profoto Acutes. Under $3K for 2400W/s with a recycle of 0.9 sec at full power! 8 stops of Asymmetrical distribution, and something Profoto doesn't have ... three radio systems built in: Profoto AIR, Hensel Strobe Wizard, and Free Mask ... if you have never seen Free-Mask in action do some research ... it is simply amazing and can outline hair in motion.

Then there is Hensel's SpeedMax mono head ... get this ... 1/66,600 duration is possible (making everything else look like a snail in comparison), with a flash tube that delivers 40,000,000 shots! :loco:

I love lighting. IMO, camera's are boring in comparison. Lighting can make such a huge difference. Fun stuff :thumbs:

-Marc

 

[johnnygoesdigital]

Both Profoto and Hensel have in some cases significant color temp. differences when comparing power levels-with 300-500k fluctuations. Interestingly, the less expensive offerings from PB, have the shortest duration and least color shift. The t.1 spec is should be considered in flash purchases.

 

[T.Karma]

Just looked at the new Nova DL. From Hensels website you simply cant figure out is it real asymmetry, or somewhat conditional asymmetry. Then they are trying to impress by saying: t0,5 1/xxxx with speed head. Me thinks, .... what about the regular heads? What about t0,1 and under full load? I find this is unworthy for products that do cost several thousand Dollars or Euros.

Not saying that Hensel is bad, I do still buy stuff from them, but some professionality is missing compared to Broncolor at least. However, as you said every of the three companies will do fine for most apps and Hensel is surely price attractive (relatively).

 

[fotografz]

Both Profoto and Hensel have in some cases significant color temp. differences when comparing power levels-with 300-500k fluctuations. Interestingly, the less expensive offerings from PB, have the shortest duration and least color shift. The t.1 spec is should be considered in flash purchases.

Never experienced that. I photograph seating fabric samples for General Motors that have to be color correct, and shifts of 300K would be unacceptable.

Many color shifts attributed to the lights are actually due to aging gear, especially modifiers ... I have to swap out the diffusion material every year or two for accurate studio color. At the suggestion of my studio tech advisor I now keep the old ones for portraits because they are warmer. BTW, washing in bleach doesn't work ... once they yellow with age, that's it.

-Marc

 

[johnnygoesdigital]

Yea, these shifts are most apparent from the lowest to the highest power setting. I have an older integra 500 that shifted considerably, so perhaps you're right.

 

[Bill_Green]

Bill, I'm not sure what the problem is with the Hensel speed ring size. I use a couple of Gary Register's Plume Wafers in studio and regularly switch back and forth between Hensel and Profoto speed-rings using the same modifier rods.

Really? Mine didn't work at all so I sold them with the plan to get something else, and just haven't yet. Perhaps I need to look closer at the Hensel and Chimera speed rings. The Chimera may be bigger and the source of my problems.

The modifiers I am loving these days are the super easy to set-up/tear-down Elinchrom Rotalux's due to so much location work ... I have both the 27" and 39" Rotalux Deep Octs, a smaller soft-box with egg-crate grid and have ordered the 59" Rotalux Inverse mount Deep Octa for use with a Quadra lithium (do not know if I can use other heads with this one yet).

Would you mind posting the link on how to use those with Hensel or PM me? I think I deleted your note that had the info. I would love to try some.

Most of the lighting solutions being discussed here, Profoto, Broncolor, and Hensel are splitting hairs ... the light quality is superb from all of them. Profoto and Broncolor usually slug it out at the top end trading top dog status with exotic generators in the $10K+ arena where only the bold and dedicated photo Gods go.

I would agree that the differences are slim as long as you are comparing in the same price bracket. I don't think what I paid for my entire Hensel kit would cover the cost of a single B4 pack. I bought the first two lights from Marc as a curiosity because I had never used mono lights before and wanted to see what the fuss was about over pack and heads. If I had the cash to go with a high end Broncolor or Profoto system I would do it in a heartbeat.

I bought the Hensels because of bang for the buck and flexibility. I will probably need to add some way to get at least 1000j into a single head at some point. Compared with the Acute system, I don't think there is much difference.

I don't understand why people get so defensive about lighting choices or a need to prove that what they bought is better than what someone else bought. It is all about needs and budget. On the strobe side, I need a couple soft boxes since I don't really have much right now, I need better battery support since all I have is the MPG, and I could use a couple higher power heads. However, if I had $5,000 to spend on lighting it would probably be for tungsten because one of the directions I am working toward is best handled by hot lights. :salute:

EDIT: It looks like Elinchrom is now making an adapter to use Rotalux on Hensel. Time to go shopping. http://www.adorama.com/EL26533.html

 

[J.Look]

Just looked at the new Nova DL. From Hensels website you simply cant figure out is it real asymmetry, or somewhat conditional asymmetry.

Same like the porty. Not fully asymmetrical.

Then they are trying to impress by saying: t0,5 1/xxxx with speed head. Me thinks, .... what about the regular heads? What about t0,1 and under full load? I find this is unworthy for products that do cost several thousand Dollars or Euros.

Speed t0,1 with the regular heads is 1/125s at full power. Fastest speed t0,1 with regular heads is 1/400s.
The Profoto Pro8 is between 1/600 and about 1/4500s. Yes, different price but you should keep in mind that with 1/125s flash speed your image might be blurry.
The Hensel speed heads will also cost you 1/3 f-stop of power. A fact they also "forget" to mention...

The Nova still sounds great. I was asking here in a store to contract me when it is available after they announced it at the photokina over two years ago.
It looks like they started to sell the first ones a few month ago in Germany but I think the only one ever been in the US was the one a the photo plus booth.
Also the fact that I can't control it with the Air software in the studio makes it unattractive for me.

Jens

 

[johnnygoesdigital]

I've found this thread to be quite useful, and wanted to comment on my own experience with Hensel. I've had the Hensel L1200 w/ 2 EH Pro mini's (non speed), and think the quality is good. However, I'm starting to shoot more outdoor action in remote locations, and need more potable solutions, and faster duration, and Hensel gear is never in stock here in the US northeast. Just a new flash tube takes weeks from BH. I'm not too invested in Hensel modifiers, except for the BD, and will keep my integra 500 for studio stuff. Hensel would benefit with better US distribution, as some modifiers are really cool (starspot) and innovative (speedmax). The D1's do look attractive with vagabonds in bat mode, but i'll have to get the specs for t, 1.

 

[Kirk Candlish]

I'm starting to shoot more outdoor action in remote locations, and need more potable solutions, and faster duration,

The flash duration isn't fast or slow, it's long or short.

If you're shooting outdoor action, whatever it is, and relying on flash duration to create a sharp image then you'll need your flash exposure to be a couple of stops above ambient. That takes a lot of light and or an ND filter on the lens.

I shoot sports using an Elinchrom Ranger X As with the S head and Pocket Wizards in order to sync at 1/500 and higher. It's a very common practice these days. The PW re-times the flash so that it allows the higher sync speed. For it to work the flash duration has to be relatively slow.

It won't work with the Elinchrom A head because the A head has a short duration and there won't be enough light captured by the shutter while it's open.

Shoot inside a studio with little or no ambient and the short duration head means the duration becomes your effective shutter speed. Try it outside and you'll have nice ghosting effect from the ambient being recorded after the flash.

 

[Kirk Candlish]

I should also point out that Tom Bol has blogged about the Elinchrom / Pocket Wizard high speed sync set up. In fact there's a lot of good information on his blog. None of it's rocket science. It's just a matter of the right tools used correctly.

D800, 1/4000 flash sync w/ Elinchrom Quadra and Pocket Wizard Hypersync « Tom Bol Photo Blog

 

[johnnygoesdigital]

Kirk,
Thanks for the link, i'll give that a read. You're correct (long/short), is the proper term. I do shoot with lots of reflective snow, so usually have plenty of ambient. I don't need a lot of light, but most use voltage lowering, (capacitor), or switching, so the flash duration is longer. I want crisp images for effect, but in a battery and head combo, the choices are few or expensive. Tail trimming is promising,(speedlights), but I need reflectors and modifiers, so those are not an option either. A recent shoot with 1200 w/s was too much and needed a dark ND to get the DOF I wanted. I will research the PW option too.

 

[Kirk Candlish]

If you need modifiers you'll be shooting Elinchrom or Profoto. I've seen a few Profoto battery powered packs go up in smoke is just a light drizzle. If you're going to shoot in snow and rain of any amount it's Elinchrom.

 

[fotografz]

If you need modifiers you'll be shooting Elinchrom or Profoto. I've seen a few Profoto battery powered packs go up in smoke is just a light drizzle. If you're going to shoot in snow and rain of any amount it's Elinchrom.

Most of the inclement weather assignments I've been on actually used Hensel Battery Powered packs (as agency creative guy on car shoots, brake and tire shoots, etc.) ... which is why I personally used the older Hensel Porty for many years, then got the new Porty Lithium. A car shooter bought my older Hensel as soon as I put it up for sale.

The only issue I'd have with Hensel is trying to rent anything these days if traveling. Plus, the support/availability in the USA is weak. However, in studio or local location I have enough round plug Hensel heads to not worry about order time for replacement parts.

I am pretty sure that the newer Profoto battery units are better sealed and protected ... although I am as equally sure I would not include the Acute 600B AIR Lithium in that mix.

Modifiers requiring speed-rings can be mixed and matched at will now. Most of the location modifiers I now use on my Profoto and Hensel lights are Elinchrom Rotalux ... the 39" deep Octa being a particular favorite. Rotalux speed-rings now come in most mounts including Profoto and Hensel. The new Profoto RFi soft-boxes now offer a complete range of RFi speed-rings for virtually every brand of mount ... I now have a few smaller RFis which are okay, but not as easy to set-up/tear-down as the EL Rotaluxes.

I started with Elinchrom and came to hate the EL mount. Elinchrom really needs to address the toughness and security of their mount system one of these days. After finally switching to Profoto as my main system, I never had an issue with the mount and came to prefer the ability to alter the light by moving the modifier along the body of the heads. I still use a number of Elinchrom accessories like a gobo box, snoot, and background reflector thanks to the EL to Profoto adapter. The only Elinchrom unit I still use is the Quadra ... only because it is simply the smallest unit out there and perfect for a "one man band" shoot.

YMMV.

-Marc

 

[johnnygoesdigital]

Usually everything is nicely protected from inclement weather, and actually Hensel is nicely sealed against moisture with its foil-like cover on top. The link to hyper sync with PW and Quadra is interesting, but there's quite a lot of chatter on the mount. I, personally have no experience, but enough comments have made me question it. Hensel has a pretty good mount, i've had no modifiers tip themselves, but stands need to be bagged! I agree that Hensel needs better U.S. distribution, it's a great product, but bulbs and mods need so much lead time.

 

[Bob]

Most of the inclement weather assignments I've been on actually used Hensel Battery Powered packs (as agency creative guy on car shoots, brake and tire shoots, etc.) ... which is why I personally used the older Hensel Porty for many years, then got the new Porty Lithium. A car shooter bought my older Hensel as soon as I put it up for sale.

The only issue I'd have with Hensel is trying to rent anything these days if traveling. Plus, the support/availability in the USA is weak. However, in studio or local location I have enough round plug Hensel heads to not worry about order time for replacement parts.

I am pretty sure that the newer Profoto battery units are better sealed and protected ... although I am as equally sure I would not include the Acute 600B AIR Lithium in that mix.

Modifiers requiring speed-rings can be mixed and matched at will now. Most of the location modifiers I now use on my Profoto and Hensel lights are Elinchrom Rotalux ... the 39" deep Octa being a particular favorite. Rotalux speed-rings now come in most mounts including Profoto and Hensel. The new Profoto RFi soft-boxes now offer a complete range of RFi speed-rings for virtually every brand of mount ... I now have a few smaller RFis which are okay, but not as easy to set-up/tear-down as the EL Rotaluxes.

I started with Elinchrom and came to hate the EL mount. Elinchrom really needs to address the toughness and security of their mount system one of these days. After finally switching to Profoto as my main system, I never had an issue with the mount and came to prefer the ability to alter the light by moving the modifier along the body of the heads. I still use a number of Elinchrom accessories like a gobo box, snoot, and background reflector thanks to the EL to Profoto adapter. The only Elinchrom unit I still use is the Quadra ... only because it is simply the smallest unit out there and perfect for a "one man band" shoot.

YMMV.

-Marc

I now don't hate the Elinchrom mount as much as I used to after learning to put the light on the mod vs the other way around. OTOH if I were annoyed another 10% I would probably go the same way as Marc.
-bob

 

[robmac]

Moved from Elinchrom app. 2 years ago to Profoto and haven't looked back. Great build quality, durable as hell, strong swivel mount that will take anything, and a modifier mount that deserves it's reputation.

No experience w/Hensel as their distribution in Canada is even worse than in US - shame as they have some nice and unique gear.

 

[Kirk Candlish]

Yes I do remember seeing people shooting with Hensel modified mounts. Hard to say which one is worse, the Hensel of the Elinchrom. I just use the Elinchrom > Profoto adapters and any time I use anything larger than the Maxi or 27" Deep Octa it's through the E>P mount adapter and a Profoto modifier.

Hensel makes some of the greatest modifiers in the world. But you have to be on the European side of the world to purchase them. North American availability is limited at best and typically non-existent.

Since the original Porty pre-dates the Elinchrom RX AS, and the old Porty hasn't been in production for a couple of years, I'd bet your experience with them is a few years ago Marc.