Site Sponsors
Results 1 to 28 of 28

Thread: Lighting at Photokina 2014

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,387
    Post Thanks / Like

    Question Lighting at Photokina 2014

    I have a feeling this years Photokina won't be the most exciting for camera releases but does anyone have any rumours or requests what lighting products they would like to see at Photokina 2014?

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,387
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Lighting at Photokina 2014

    I'll start things off

    Being a recent convert to Broncolor I'd like to see:-

    1. More lamp heads with LED comparability for perfect integration between studio and battery packs.
    2. A Profoto B1 rival but smaller and lighter with open flash tube.

  3. #3
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    iiiNelson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    3,187
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Lighting at Photokina 2014

    I'd guess Profoto would introduce the B1 1000w. I wouldn't mind seeing a "consolidation" of the D1 and B1 line and Profoto offering an A/C wall adapter that plugs into the slot where the battery goes.
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
    http://www.iiinelsonimages.com

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,387
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Lighting at Photokina 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    I'd guess Profoto would introduce the B1 1000w.
    The only problem I see with that is it would step on the toes of the ProB4. I imaging most people who buy or hire ProB4's need the power above all of its other fancy features. If all of a sudden everyone could afford to own a 1000Ws Profoto battery light as good as the B1 the rental market would take a massive hit. I'd estimate rental companies must make up at least 60% of Profoto's total sales, maybe more?

    But you never know....... The B1 is after all being marketed as "off camera flash" rather than a battery version of the D1 hopefully dissuading defecting Pro pack users. However I don't think working photographers are stupid enough to believe it - I bought (and sold) two B1's and have never classed myself as a strobist.

  5. #5
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Lighting at Photokina 2014

    I'd like to see a replacement for (or supplement to) the Profoto Acute 600B AIR Lithium Pack that takes it digital to allow remote level adjustments. This little pack is still my preference over a B1 because the head is so small/light weight for use on a mobile painter's stick or over-head stationary boom arm.

    The inclusion of an AC converter for the B1 would make that kit a lot more attractive. I have the AC converter for my Hensel Porty 1200L which more than doubled the use/value of that kit (BTW, it also uses the Profoto AIR radio, so I can mix it with my Profoto AIR stuff).

    Rather than a B1-1000, I think a B1-250 that was smaller but used the same battery, recycled faster and decreased the flash durations would be of interest. Today's higher ISO cameras could benefit from better quality of light rather than quantity of light when on location compared to strobists style speed-light use.

    I have a feeling there may be some noise generated by LED lighting due to the growth in popularity of video. Lots of potential there for innovation.

    When I checked into a hotel during a power outage here, They had these industrial lights out front that caught my eye. They were called Glo-Bug Solo and were just plugged into an AC outlet. I was shocked now much beautiful soft light these things threw. Love to see something like this adapted to photo use.

    GLO - BUG LIGHTING

    - Marc
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  6. #6
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    iiiNelson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    3,187
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Lighting at Photokina 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Rather than a B1-1000, I think a B1-250 that was smaller but used the same battery, recycled faster and decreased the flash durations would be of interest. Today's higher ISO cameras could benefit from better quality of light rather than quantity of light when on location compared to strobists style speed-light use.

    - Marc
    You're probably spot on about this as it would give twice as many full power pops at least and upwards of up to 100,000 min power pops on one fully charged battery. A more reasonable entry price for off camera stuff isn't a bad thing for those that want to go with Profoto due to the mounting system and large amount of accessories available to buy.

    I was thinking that the B1 and D1 could (and maybe should) be merged into one line especially if the D1 can't be upgraded to TTL which is a huge selling (or at least a huge marketing) feature for people starting off into strobes.
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
    http://www.iiinelsonimages.com

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,387
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Lighting at Photokina 2014

    I think you are right regarding more chance of seeing a lower powered B1 rather than more power although "with the power of 5 average speedlites" doesn't sound quite as impressive for the money.

    Like you Marc, my favorate Profoto light was the truly amazing AcuteB2 but it seriously needs some attention. Digital operation like the Pro B4 and Air Remote built in would make this one formidable pack/head combo and be my preference over a B1 any day if the week.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,387
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Lighting at Photokina 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I have a feeling there may be some noise generated by LED lighting due to the growth in popularity of video. Lots of potential there for innovation.
    I really do feel LED should be in all heads and one of the amazing things about the Bron Move with MobiLED heads. The down side is all the other heads flash but have no modelling. Having full size heads with even more powerful LED bulbs would be amazing for stills and video.

    From a business stand point I'm not sure if it will ever happen as both Bron and Profoto have HMI ranges and having a PulsoLED or ProLED head with 600w equivalent daylight balanced bulbs might blur product lines......

  9. #9
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Lighting at Photokina 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    I think you are right regarding more chance of seeing a lower powered B1 rather than more power although "with the power of 5 average speedlites" doesn't sound quite as impressive for the money.

    Like you Marc, my favorate Profoto light was the truly amazing AcuteB2 but it seriously needs some attention. Digital operation like the Pro B4 and Air Remote built in would make this one formidable pack/head combo and be my preference over a B1 any day if the week.
    Until you try putting 5 speed-lights into one light modifier then set them to full power and shoot for 10 minutes, then wait 15 minutes for the thermal protector to let you shoot again. Been there done that. Will NEVER, EVER, EVER do it again

    - Marc
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Karlsruhe, Germany
    Posts
    174
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Lighting at Photokina 2014

    Wondering if we see the demise of traditional studio flash equipment
    starting at photokina 2014. With increasing importance of Video for
    photographers and ever increasing improvements in LED technology,
    continuous light might soon take over the studio?

    Companies like Dedo Light are agressively advertising in photo magazines
    these days.
    Anyway, looking forward to see whats coming, i'm happy with the bron Move
    and Para for the moment.
    Just my 2 cents,
    Ralf
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,387
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Lighting at Photokina 2014

    I'm not so sure it will ever die out as flash light is so powerful and compact compared to continuous lighting of the same output but integration of LED into traditional studio heads would be a welcome addition. With modern DSLR's shooting stills and video (and MFD hopefully one day) not having to change lighting is a big attraction for many I'm sure.

    As for LED lighting replacing all other types of lighting I'm not so sure it can. Its my understanding to get a specific colour temperature of light from LED they mix RGB LED's together at a magic ratio to get an approximate Kelvin temperature. As an LED diode emits quite a narrow RG or B value its not full spectrum light so can have an effect on colour (not colour balance but specific colours) if being very critical. Flash, tungsten, HMI are all full spectrum so are more much more accurate.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  12. #12
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Lighting at Photokina 2014

    I think there are a number of aspects could influence the growth of LED lighting the growth of available video in still cameras (as mentioned), the increased ISO abilities of modern still cameras that reduce the amount of contineous light required, and the ease of newbies to explore off-camera lighting while being able to more easily see what they will get.

    What will continue to be the strength of strobes is the flash duration's ability to freeze action and deliver color temp consistency across the range. The amount of continuous light required to achieve the shutter speed equivalent of 1/3500 flash duration would be substantial I think. Then when you do crank up the shutter speed with continuous lights, it affects the ambient exposure, where with strobes shutter speed is somewhat irrelevant because the flash duration is faster. So you can capture ambient with a slower shutter speed while freezing the main subject using flash duration.

    We'll probably see a lot of attention placed on continuous lighting because it is ripe for innovation in the more modest areas of home video and smaller video projects.

    - Marc
    Likes 4 Member(s) liked this post

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,387
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Lighting at Photokina 2014

    This looks interesting.


  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Karlsruhe, Germany
    Posts
    174
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Lighting at Photokina 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    This looks interesting.
    Hmhh, maybe something similar as the Profoto B1 but with LED? The
    reflector looks like the one from the MobiLED.

    Oh well, in one week from now we'll all know.

    But yes, looks interesting.

    Regards,
    Ralf
    Last edited by rmueller; 14th September 2014 at 06:54. Reason: typo

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,387
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Lighting at Photokina 2014

    It has to be a B1 killer from Bron?

    ....and if that is a MobiLED size reflector it looks a lot smaller which would be excellent.

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Karlsruhe, Germany
    Posts
    174
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Lighting at Photokina 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    It has to be a B1 killer from Bron?

    ....and if that is a MobiLED size reflector it looks a lot smaller which would be excellent.
    No B1 but more of a D1 "killer", see
    broncolor to introduce novelties at photokina – SIROS and HMI 1600
    Doesn't look bad but not for me, i need mobile.

    Hedler announced a LED1000 continuous light lamp,
    HEDLER News (only german language so far)
    which has a 185W single cell LED

    Lets see what else is coming....

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,387
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Lighting at Photokina 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by rmueller View Post
    No B1 but more of a D1 "killer", see
    broncolor to introduce novelties at photokina SIROS and HMI 1600
    Doesn't look bad but not for me, i need mobile.
    That was quite a surprise as I thought it would be battery powered/hybrid, however they do look a nice spec piece of kit. Quite supprised they didn't update the Scoro to use the iPhone/iPad app at the same time considering the Mac OS9 style app that runs them.

    Like you, not for me either. I'm in the process of ditching all my monoblocks and will be after a Scoro next. Wonder if there are any Photokina specials/discounts running?

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,387
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Lighting at Photokina 2014

    The ability change the LED's colour on the top of the Siros when set to different lamp addresses is very cool. I must say these new Bron lights look VERY slick!
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Karlsruhe, Germany
    Posts
    174
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Lighting at Photokina 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    I'm in the process of ditching all my monoblocks and will be after a Scoro next. Wonder if there are any Photokina specials/discounts running?
    Few weeks ago they send me an email saying that they sell all of the photokina
    demo equipment with considerable discounts. So you might want to ask your
    bron dealer. The only "official" promotion i see is a Senso promotion.
    I'd call them and ask, doesn't hurt.

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,387
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Lighting at Photokina 2014

    Thanks for the heads up, I'll drop them an email now.

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,387
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Lighting at Photokina 2014

    Even though Bron didn't give us a Profoto B1 rival, possibly because of the influx of much cheaper but still very good cheap Chinese versions (Cononmark and Phottix) the biggest surprise to me was the lack of a Profoto Acute B3 announcement.

    The amazing little ActueB2 is a cracking little battery pack but very dated now even for a starter range of packs.

    Seems like all Profoto's efforts went into Nikon TTL support.

  22. #22
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Lighting at Photokina 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    Even though Bron didn't give us a Profoto B1 rival, possibly because of the influx of much cheaper but still very good cheap Chinese versions (Cononmark and Phottix) the biggest surprise to me was the lack of a Profoto Acute B3 announcement.

    The amazing little ActueB2 is a cracking little battery pack but very dated now even for a starter range of packs.

    Seems like all Profoto's efforts went into Nikon TTL support.
    Probably because that's where the money is these days.

    Pretty convincing video of Brian Marcus shooting wedding work on the fly with a Nikon and B1s.

    B1 Off-Camera Flash

    I'd suspect that one of two things will happen in future a TTL Acute B3, or discontinuation of the Acute B series in favor of something totally new.

    The little Acute B2 Lithium AIR is my go-to mobile solution because I'm shooting with leaf-shutter lenses where I set everything manually anyway, and I like the B2 analog controls.

    I hope they replace it with some wonder-box so I can get a second B2 cheap

    - Marc
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  23. #23
    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter FL/Atlanta GA
    Posts
    2,279
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Lighting at Photokina 2014

    Marc

    Thanks for sharing that video . I shoot 5-6 times a year in NYC and I ve been to almost everyone of his locations . Those images are stunning and really demonstrate how you can control the light to get the photograph you know is there . Of course ..it helps to have attractive professional models and two skilled lighting assistants …..Dreaming again.

    Roger

  24. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,387
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Lighting at Photokina 2014

    Great video and results.

    What I find strange is the overwhelming use of bare bulb with the B1 as that is how I also liked to use mine when I had them. I know a B1 has much more power than a speedlight which helps a lot in bright sunny conditions but it makes me wonder as a lot of these great shots were captured bare or into a brolly what the diffetence would have been if they had just used a speedlight? On a couple of shots they did use a beauty dish but at those distances from the subject what was the point other than to get one in the video because they are cool?

    Just some random thoughts!?

  25. #25
    Senior Member RVB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Amsterdam
    Posts
    807
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Lighting at Photokina 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    Great video and results.

    What I find strange is the overwhelming use of bare bulb with the B1 as that is how I also liked to use mine when I had them. I know a B1 has much more power than a speedlight which helps a lot in bright sunny conditions but it makes me wonder as a lot of these great shots were captured bare or into a brolly what the diffetence would have been if they had just used a speedlight? On a couple of shots they did use a beauty dish but at those distances from the subject what was the point other than to get one in the video because they are cool?

    Just some random thoughts!?

    Gareth.I think the BD is also proving a similar effect to the magnum and adding direction and more power...??

    Rob

  26. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,387
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Lighting at Photokina 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by RVB View Post
    Gareth.I think the BD is also proving a similar effect to the magnum and adding direction and more power...??
    Not a critisism, just an observation that its a weird choice of modifer considering a BD is an indirect reflector so not that efficient or soft at those distances and considering the use of bare bulb so much why not here?

    Regardless of what they used, great results.

  27. #27
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Lighting at Photokina 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    Great video and results.

    What I find strange is the overwhelming use of bare bulb with the B1 as that is how I also liked to use mine when I had them. I know a B1 has much more power than a speedlight which helps a lot in bright sunny conditions but it makes me wonder as a lot of these great shots were captured bare or into a brolly what the diffetence would have been if they had just used a speedlight? On a couple of shots they did use a beauty dish but at those distances from the subject what was the point other than to get one in the video because they are cool?

    Just some random thoughts!?
    Good random thoughts, and some debatable ones IMO.

    Interestingly, I was breaking in a new lighting assistant at this past Saturday's wedding shoot, and the same questions/observations came regarding strobes verses speed-lights. I showed him that Marcus video.

    If you look closely at the video, the use of various modifiers is quite apparently adding to the quality of light not just quantity. (However, quantity is not to be overlooked as a B1 set to 1/4 power would require that a speed-light put out near full power, and you sure wouldn't be shooting as fast as Marcus was even if a Canon or Nikon speed-light thermal breaker did shut you down for 10 to 15 minutes been there, done that).

    The mobile shots with the two umbrella XLs shows a silver one and a diffused one which is obvious in the end result. Mods that big would swallow a speed light's energy and take seconds to recycle so you'd never be shooting that fast to catch that special expression.

    In one shot the beauty dish was used in conjunction with a larger Octa key and the assistant was holding it to skim the subject while putting light on the background to separate the subject which is also obvious in the final shot.

    Ect. Etc, Etc.

    So, while you could use a speed-light in some situations, you couldn't in most of them.

    Brand endorsements aside, close observation shows that Marcus knows what he is doing.

    - Marc

  28. #28
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    168
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Lighting at Photokina 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    On a couple of shots they did use a beauty dish but at those distances from the subject what was the point other than to get one in the video because they are cool?
    The number one selling modifier to newbies and wannabes is the BD. Seldom is it the PF BD, more typically a Chinese knock-off but the BD is pretty hard to fail with and it's an icon of what a 'Pro' shoots with.

    So yeah, it's in there for the cool factor IMO.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •