New Profoto Monolights released

[Bob]

The remotes are a good example of proprietary advantage.
To some degree, I look at these new Profoto monos as an attempt (and it looks like a good one at that) to respond to the proprietary elinchrom and bron remotes.
Now if Sekonic would have a plug-in for them, that would be really convenient.
I use a skyport velcroed to the back and a short cable. Not the best solutin, but it works for me. I just really like the ability to adjust the lights from the remote. It makes things a lot easier when walking the set and tweaking up the lights from the meter position.
-bob

 

[LJL]

Bob,
I was thinking about the same thing. The PW radio chip built into the Sekonic meters is becoming less useful for some of these proprietary remotes. With the Profoto Air system, it does not work. However, the way around that is to use the Profoto Air Remote in "test" mode while triggering individual lights, and having the light meter just reading the flash, not triggering it also. Not sure if that is possible with the Elinchroms or Hensels if trying to adjust individual lights.

Your Elinchrom Skyport velcro and short cable solution would be the same as attaching a Profoto Air Sync to whatever unit, but that would only permit triggering, not making adjustments. This is that ongoing proprietary battle among players with some workarounds. Basically, it is starting to look like everybody else is edging PW out of their place to some degree. I prefer the ability to control the lighting over just triggering the flash only from a remote device, but those options are few and none are that inexpensive right now.

LJ

 

[Bob]

Since the skyport transmitter is sitting there in my hand attached to the back of the meter, I can use it to adjust the lights too. Just have to select the appropriate group or "all". I imagine that the others might work similarly, but I haven't checked.

When you try to mix and match these remotes, then almost all of the advantages just evaporate and you are back to PW equivalent triggers.

That is the problem with proprietary solutions that are aimed, I think cynically, at keeping you within one line of equipment. This is more or less the same issue with all of the modifier attachments, although you can get adapters for more bucks.
-bob

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Guy,
If I may add one more thing to your list of things.....

Some of the newer monolights are also starting to cover a greater range of power and control than before. Having 7 stops of range with 1/10-stop adjustment is not something most monolights have, so one is gaining a fair amount of fine control.

The only flies in the ointment, so to speak, is the incompatibility of some of the newer remote devices. The PocketWizards are great for their universal acceptance, but they only trigger things. The newer remotes on things like the Profotos, Hensels and Elinchroms may provide additional adjustment capabilities, but most are not compatible with PWs or anybody else. This may not matter for some, but it could become an issue for folks wanting to use mixed sets of things. Guess this is an argument for one manufacturer over another in the kit, but it sure would be nice if there was more wireless compatibility across gear, and even within some lines of gear.

The rest of your points are on target with the things I have been thinking about. Good summary.

LJ

Edit: The Profoto Air Sync, as Marc mentioned, will act as a triggering device from the Profoto Air Remote or Sync when connected to other packs or lights that may not have radio controls or radio controls of some other bandwidth. You are only able to trigger things, but that is useful.

Thanks LJ yes please folks add to that list i know we went a little OT here but great data is great data and all great stuff.

Since we are on the remotes I can speak of the Skyports from Elinchrom. Maybe Marc on the Hensels and others as well on the remotes for more clarification because you are exactly right some will not work across system brands or be compatible with the popular Pocket Wizards.

I will start with the Skyports from Elinchrom since I do use them. These are very small remotes which is very nice for on camera and also these will cross system lines but with limitations.

There are two receivers for the Skyports on the RX models both in Monolights and in the Ranger Battery packs setup you can adjust the power from the transciever to go up or down in groupings . So in effect you can have one light in group 1 and say 2 lights on group 2 . You can either add or subtract group 1 from 2 and so on and there is 4 total groups so a lot you can do in the RX models with splitting power around from the transmitter.

Also they have a Universal receiver that can be used with almost any other system for firing purposes you cannot control the power though but you can mix the system . The package comes with various plugs to hook up. So with the Phono Plug for example you can use that to fire Profoto gear on the same set along with other systems . This is very handy actually becuase i have some Elinchroms that are older units without RX but I can still use them in my system. Obviously there is a lot more to add here but that is basically the Skyports in a nut shell.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Since the skyport transmitter is sitting there in my hand attached to the back of the meter, I can use it to adjust the lights too. Just have to select the appropriate group or "all". I imagine that the others might work similarly, but I haven't checked.

When you try to mix and match these remotes, then almost all of the advantages just evaporate and you are back to PW equivalent triggers.

That is the problem with proprietary solutions that are aimed, I think cynically, at keeping you within one line of equipment. This is more or less the same issue with all of the modifier attachments, although you can get adapters for more bucks.
-bob

We posted the same time but exactly correct Bob . When mixing systems it is down to a triggering device only and you have to get up and walk over to your other units and adjust there power manually. Even so the unit size itself is much smaller than the PW units which on the camera i find a nice benefit. Also the Skyports are not very expensive either which is very nice but obviously they will have limitations

 

[Ben Rubinstein]

The skyports can be hooked up to the computer to change everything and fire from the computer. Don't think it has the range of the Profoto Air but that kind of range is pretty niche anyway.

Thing is that with the Elinchrom (Hensel as well?) you buy the wireless control as an accessory extra, with these Profoto Air units you have to make the decision when you buy which although no doubt perfect for their marketing department, gives less choice to the consumer.

 

[dseelig]

I have balcars and am a little frustrated with the weight of them. I have the p4, concept p4 and b3 with 1600 watt heads and one 800 watt head. The b3 system is great for the power the battery can give but boy would I love that hensel lithuim system how nice and light. The other problem with the balcars is getting them fixed calumet takes for ever. I am thinkng of getting some other system. I think of elinchroms, monolights, but starting over is expensive.

 

[fotografz]

The skyports can be hooked up to the computer to change everything and fire from the computer. Don't think it has the range of the Profoto Air but that kind of range is pretty niche anyway.

Thing is that with the Elinchrom (Hensel as well?) you buy the wireless control as an accessory extra, with these Profoto Air units you have to make the decision when you buy which although no doubt perfect for their marketing department, gives less choice to the consumer.

Not for the Hensels. You have to select the PLUS model mono to get built in radio control. Hensel makes a plug in jack reciever for non-radio heads, but it's just a trigger like a PW.

 

[fotografz]

In the end you really have to be careful and investigate each choice throughly. As Guy said, lighting is really a long term investment ... and in reality there isn't much to improve on from one generation to the next ... maybe some convenience factors, and for a select group, more refined output control. But it's not like cameras or computers ... the last generation of stuff performs the job equal to the new one. 600w/s is 600w/s. Lighting is like film cameras ... it matured long ago, so it's added digital frills now. Nice, but in the end light is light.

In my trek over 40 years of doing this, there is one benefit to paying more up front if you can swing it ... certain Brands just have better resale ability... higher % of the original cost back, and much, much easier to sell on the open market even 5 to 8 years later depending on degree of use. Try that with a digital camera.

I've decided to stand pat with my current line-up of lighting ... and wait for others to do the shake down cruise with the D1 Monos. I'm skeptical about the flat front diffuser and built in reflector that delivers a narrower º of spread ... and how that will work with modifiers like my Profoto Globe, ProBox, Plume Wafers, and even a 60' umbrella. Profoto is suppose to be coming with some sort of dome, we'll see. Jury's out until someone actually uses them.

Meanwhile, watch for the early adopters shedding perfectly good lighting that will do a marvelous job for 95% of those moving up to Pro lighting. Units that will cost close to nothing because they hold their re-sale value once the initial hit is taken by the earlier adopter.

 

[LJL]

Like Marc, I am also hesitating just a bit on the D1 Air monos. I think they are a very attractive solution, but will deliver, as all Profotos have. My concern is as Marc's right now....the 77 degree beam angle spread of light from them. That will be great for most umbrellas (maybe up to 45" or so, depending on how far you can position the umbrella from the head), and should work with deeper softboxes or off of reflectors. Shallower boxes (like the Plume Wafers and other devices) may be more a problem with even light spread. There is a glass dome listed for the D1s, but I have not seen it, nor are there any reports on its use.....yet. I am hoping it hits the mark, but we will have to wait to see.

If the D1 Airs hit the marks they are advertising, I do think them to become excellent solution options for lighting. Being able to control individual light output (at 0.1 stop increments over 7 stops) and modeling light output for up to 8 lights from a tiny control unit is darn attractive, and probably as much as most shooters would ever need. If you are doing heavy duty commercial shooting and need the bigger packs and heads, they would still be available, but these smaller monos may be able to cover a lot of ground with very good control and output.

The debate will rage on about whether you are getting what you pay for, especially at the higher initial costs of some of these. That is a personal decision each shooter must make. If you shoot a lot with lights, getting better ones will be in your interest, versus buying cheaper ones several times to keep up. Just a thought.

LJ

 

[docmoore]

Like Marc, I am also hesitating just a bit on the D1 Air monos. I think they are a very attractive solution, but will deliver, as all Profotos have.

If the D1 Airs hit the marks they are advertising, I do think them to become excellent solution options for lighting.

The debate will rage on about whether you are getting what you pay for, especially at the higher initial costs of some of these. That is a personal decision each shooter must make. If you shoot a lot with lights, getting better ones will be in your interest, versus buying cheaper ones several times to keep up. Just a thought.

LJ

After following the threads on lighting here for some time and missing yet another of Marcs for sale items ( I would never make a good rugby player ), I started looking at Profoto lights. Disclaimer - I am not a pro and mainly focus on objects distant and fairly slow moving like trees hills railroad trestles and the occasional herd of cattle. Portraits and interior architecture does play into my decision and after loading the recent 800 ISO FW upgrade from Hasselblad I realized that light really does matter and should be important ... especially in view of the poor high iso function of all CCDs in MFBs at the present time.

Initially thought I would buy a AcuteB 600R but was dissuaded by counsel that one 600 would not be adequate. As it has been some 15 years since I had any mono lights and I am not burdened by having a system that might be incompatible with regards to accessories the D1 system sounded ideal. I would have to add on PW function to their other mono ComPact R system which diminished the cost differential a little.

It is obvious that the Profoto marketing department is gearing this towards the portrait market...they have bundled the lights in a couple of systems with umbrellas and offer three LST kits that appear to be after the same core group of users...small light box, beauty dish zoom reflector and gridkit. There is little written material available on the system at the present time...a couple of PDFs and a series of youtube videos demo'ed by Tony Corbell. My dealer had one 500 D1 Air kit and had not opened nor seen any of the information that I had found on the Profoto-USA site and on this thread. I have seen little advertising for the LST accessories for the D1 and no ads for the D1 Air remotes as separate items as yet.

After driving to the dealer on three different days I brought the kit home. I had forgotten how good, good light can be. The kit is of higher quality than my first broncolor light system some 15 years ago....stands are light air cushioned type, great small umbrellas - reflective black over white, unbelievable AC mains cords. The D1 air remote is fast small and syncs instantly....I did not go into the back yard or down the street to test distance...yet. There is a small instruction on the remote and none for the lights.

I had only 20 minutes or so the other night to fire them up and have a lot of reading to accomplish with regards to ratios, distances and the like but I am very pleased with them. Control from the remote is a great addition...light on off model light on off individual light power setting or combined power for groups. The D1s can be IR Air remote or cable synced.

I have added a couple of very rough JPGs that follow ... comment and advice welcomed...please.

 

[docmoore]

D1 Air Nikon D3 capture sharpened little else...two umbrellas.

 

[docmoore]

D1 Air as above

 

[docmoore]

D1 Air Canon G10 Two umbrellas...

 

[docmoore]

Again, it has been a long time since I have used studio lights and as you can tell I need some instruction and practice. However, I was captivated by how consistent the light output and quality was...very little post capture needed. I know this is the hallmark of any good studio light system but personally regret my delay in adding it to my system(s).

Bob

 

[LJL]

These look like they are working nicely. Thanks for sharing your foray down this path. Making me think harder and harder on these.

The light is both soft and hard edged at the same time, which I find interesting. By that I mean that the wooden goose shot shows the nice wrap of light, even from what I suspect is a silver umbrella that would normally be more specular and contrasty. The glasses of milk show the same sort of thing....sharper distant shadows, as expected, but softer wrap on the main subject for very even lighting.

Not wanting to get into color balance and stuff, but the images have a bit "cooler" look to them, and that may be the Nikon rendering, as tends to be seen in other shots. The exposure is preserving the surface details, as can be seen in the wall texture on the sled shot, yet the shadows have a nice softened edge to them.

Do you have any feel for the beam angle spread? It obviously works nicely with the smaller umbrellas, but how do you think it will work in say a softbox or some shallow light shaping tool? (The shop I have been to had a set, sold them, but have not restocked yet, so I have no way of checking things out myself.) What about the case build? I know it is plastic, compared to the spun aluminum of the other ComPacts, but it looks fairly sturdy. The one area of interest is the handle itself. The Elinchroms had a handle on top that had a weak point in how it attached, versus this molded lower-side handle on the D1s.

Sorry to pepper with so many questions, but it is great to see somebody here using them in the wild as it were. (I was sure Marc was going to be the first to spring for them ;-) )

LJ

 

[docmoore]

LJ,

Sorry for the delayed response...been on dandelion patrol in the back. This has been a beast of a spring for weeds. Nothing like a couple of hours pulling weeds to clear one's mind.

These shots were not color balanced ... I noticed that the Nikon placed them at 4550 K in CS4 so it really could be a bit warmer. I have not had much time to play with the capatures. Light spread seems as advertised without modifier as not a real central hot spot when I look at the umbrella reflection in a couple of shots. I was six feet from the table, maybe 12 to 15 from the cradle and 8 to 10 from the decoy with the key light. I imagine that the upcoming glass cover may add some spread ... I hope to add an octa and a medium soft box and magnum reflectors at some point. I would think that Profoto spent a lot of time looking at the issue of softbox octa dish accessories and the PDF shows them bundling these in three kits.

Case build is extremely sturdy...handle seems very strong like they added a 50% margin for safety. As in the pics on the PDF it is two piece but very rigid and thicker than I had imagined when I first looked at the PDF. I don't know how it will fare over a long rental product cycle but know I would have to work to mess it up. My overall impression was ComPacts remind me of the 50 - 60's, engineered to drop from the third floor to keep from having to carry them down plug in and use them while the D1s are more modern but maintain that overbuilt ethic: Volvo 240 vs C70. I looked at Elinchrom 400 BX and 600 RX lights and these appear much more stout than the those.

Bob

 

[LJL]

Bob,
The WB explains it for me. Take it up to daylight or even flash at 5500K or so and things should jump into place nicely.

You are correct, not much LST info on the D1s, but then they are built to take all or almost all of the other Profoto tools. There is a "glass dome" that I have not seen, and nobody else has either (Profoto part# 101561, I believe) that both Calumet and B&H have listed on their books at $155, but no other info, and nothing on the Profoto site. I have been sending emails to Profoto (through the MAC Group here in the states) to get info beyond what is posted. Has been of some help, but for a major product like this, they sure seem to be a bit unprepared to handle the questions and stuff. I think the formal roll-out is in a week or so, but places have them and are selling them, so not sure things are coordinated.

The Air System has been out for a while longer. It was introduced at the time of the big Pro8a Air pack a few months ago. That and the D1 Airs are the only things that can be controlled with the Air Remote unit, or the Air USB unit while connected to a computer and running their software (Studio Air). There is an Air Sync that can plug into other packs or heads, much like a PocketWizard, and be used to trigger the device, but it does not provided individual lighting control, just triggering.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on build, etc. Will be interesting to get your impressions once you start playing with them more. Your first results looked good for the light shaping and such, and I am sure it will be really nice to start trying more creative lighting also. I like softbox lighting for a lot of things, and am hoping the light from these units will work well in various boxes. I do not think there will be any issues with things like grids, and even the beauty dish, as it has a central reflector piece to kick the light around. Not sure how longer throw reflectors will work, and most wide reflectors would not, unless the glass dome is used.

Lots to play with and think about. Thanks again for letting us in on your new toys ;-)

LJ

 

[docmoore]

Bob,
The WB explains it for me. Take it up to daylight or even flash at 5500K or so and things should jump into place nicely.

LJ

Corrected the following to 5100K.

Bob

 

[archivue]

i'm a proud owner of a D1 1000 Air kit... but there's one think i don't like with it... you can't put the head completly vertical ... i have to find a bogen part to be able to do it !
Any idea of the part i should use for it ?

Thanks.