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Mamiya ZDB digital back - anyone using?

Paratom

Well-known member
I am not as experienced with MF as most guys around here.
Before I got my Sinar back I have used a ZD (not back-integrated camera) for some weeks.
I felt I could clearly see the difference/advantage of the ZD-files compared to DLSR-files, but not really when moving from the ZD to the Sinar back - besides at higher ISO.
I agree regarding the display of the ZD being crap.
Other than that I believe the ZD has been a great idea (pretty much a plastic-S2 with a larger sensor)
If they would have offered a ZD with good display and better usable high ISO I think it would be a great camera.
Of course "ZD(-back)" it is not as "cool" as a Hassy or Phase or Sinar or Leaf :)
 

Quentin_Bargate

Well-known member
I am not as experienced with MF as most guys around here.
Before I got my Sinar back I have used a ZD (not back-integrated camera) for some weeks.
I felt I could clearly see the difference/advantage of the ZD-files compared to DLSR-files, but not really when moving from the ZD to the Sinar back - besides at higher ISO.
I agree regarding the display of the ZD being crap.
Other than that I believe the ZD has been a great idea (pretty much a plastic-S2 with a larger sensor)
If they would have offered a ZD with good display and better usable high ISO I think it would be a great camera.
Of course "ZD(-back)" it is not as "cool" as a Hassy or Phase or Sinar or Leaf :)
I think that about sums it up. The ZD was a brave attempt by Mamiya to grab a slice of the MF market. I have owned a ZD camera for several years. I feel inclined to stick up for it, because it was a pioneering design let down by a very poor rear screen display but excellent image quality at low ISO.

What Mamiya should have done is bring out a digital back early on and leverage their installed user base of loyal MF camera owners. Still, while I now use the ZD but rarely, it still handles very well and has some nice touches, like the very simple mirror lock up function. Nice camera, same about the screen.

Quentin
 

Jan Brittenson

Senior Subscriber Member
I love my ZD back, but I only ever shoot at low ISO, don't really care much about the screen as long as it's big and clear enough to read a histogram, and my subjects aren't fast moving so the occasional glitch isn't a big deal. The image quality is excellent - unbelievably good for the price. Sure, I wouldn't say no to the features of a higher-end product, but not enough to plunk down thousands of dollars. If my uses were different I'd probably feel very differently, so caveat emptor. It's a great product for a serious hobbyist like me, but I doubt I'd want it for daily work use, except perhaps as an inexpensive backup.
 

Anders_HK

Member
3,700 usd might seem a sweet deal over a capable 22MP back at 7,000 usd,however it might also mean loosing maybe 2,000 usd when replacing it with another 22MP back within a year... then what is savings as compared to have a respectable tool from start?

The ZD has a problem as nature of the design, and there has been nil put fourth of that Mamiya ever fixed it. perhaps it was too difficult to fix... Do read the link I posted and understand this and the limitation of ZD. The ZD need lots of light. If in studio and images captured using plenty of light you might be ok. Forget high ISO, ISO 50 is best. If for landscapes at early morning with light bright in frame, same time as darkest shadows you will be disappointed and sell it fast. A P25 or Aptus 22 do not have those problems. The Aptus 22 even has the same sensor from Dalsa but Leaf worked out the hardware and internal software parts properly.

Now that Mamiya launched their Phase One backs... must be clear that ZD is a gonner, for good reason... indeed unfortunate because the ZD was a good idea, if only Mamiya would have designed it proper.

Regards
Anders
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Very well balanced reporting here . Everyone hit it dead on the money on the ZD. Where was this when I bought mine.:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

Seriously the last 8 posts or so are just perfect.
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
Curious, has anyone removed the filter and shot this in IR mode?

Don
Uh, oh. You just converted the 1Ds Mark II to IR only one week....and now the gears are turning and the lights and bells are going off-- for doing IR on your Cambo RS.....

I'm telling Sandy....

:ROTFL:
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
Uh, oh. You just converted the 1Ds Mark II to IR only one week....and now the gears are turning and the lights and bells are going off-- for doing IR on your Cambo RS.....

I'm telling Sandy....

:ROTFL:
No fair! Why do I feel blackmail coming?:ROTFL:
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
I'm curious to see how the images compare to my 665nm filter 1DsII; the only regret I have is I didn't do it sooner. Now based on my experience I'd like to see what I could achieve in MF without busting the bank.

Don
 

John Black

Active member
Curious, has anyone removed the filter and shot this in IR mode?

Don
Physically, a ZD camera would be an excellent choice for IR because the IR filter is a user-removable cartridge. The IR filter slides out using a cartridge like housing. A mechanism in the housing clicks onto the IR filter and then slides out and is stored in the cartridge. The process is pretty easy, but definitely something I do at home, not in the field. I don't shoot IR, so I'm not sure how the camera would actually do.

An upside to the IR filter ahead of the sensor is that it creates a gap between the sensor and filter. When dust lands on the IR filter, it doesn't show up in the images unless it's a big, big chunk of a dust. In one year of shooting with many, many lens changes and ~5k clicks, I've cleaned the filter once. I've never had to clean the sensor.

If Mamiya (or Phase One) updated the ZD with a P40+ sensor, a newer rear LCD display and priced it around it under $12k (ha ha ha), they would have a S2 killer for sure. The Mrs. using her snap-shot camera a couple weeks ago :)

 

Quentin_Bargate

Well-known member
If Mamiya (or Phase One) updated the ZD with a P40+ sensor, a newer rear LCD display and priced it around it under $12k (ha ha ha), they would have a S2 killer for sure. The Mrs. using her snap-shot camera a couple weeks ago :)
Wow, the ZD used as a street shooter's tool?...brave :ROTFL:

Quentin
 
K

K3N

Guest
If Mamiya (or Phase One) updated the ZD with a P40+ sensor, a newer rear LCD display and priced it around it under $12k (ha ha ha), they would have a S2 killer for sure. The Mrs. using her snap-shot camera a couple weeks ago :)
Thats a great idea and I would really like to see such a camera. :clap:
 

djonesii

Workshop Member
I have been following this thread with quite the interest .....

My main interest for a MF camera is studio, artistic nude. Right now, I'm using a D300/Contax G1/Polaroaid 4X5/Fuji 645, and I'm getting some pretty interesting results.

I really beleive the film vs digital debate from the quality view is over .... however, there is the economics view .... I can shoot/develop a lot of 4X5 film from the polaroid ( either fujiroid/Velvia/TriX) before I have dented the cost of a MF back.

Keeping in mind that this is my hobby, I have a few MF choices ....

16 meg Square back + Hasselblad V around 3.5 K
Shoots with an image bank, and crops )


Mamiya ZDB
22 meg, shoots to CF, minimal crop, some, but from all I have read if does not "cost" the MF look
About 4.5K ...

Sony .... for me a non starter, while the same number of pixels, I really don't think a SLR = MF ( I am a Nikon shooter, so same for D700)

Or Mamiya + P25 at least 7K ......

For my hobby, 4.5K is a stretch, but if I forgo a M8, and feed the kids top ramen for a few months, it could work ..... the phase will not happen for at least an other 2 years ....

So, would it be better to keep shooting film or to get a ZDB? I hear an storong message in this thread that says, for the pros, its simple, don't do it, but there is that undertone, that says, hey, this is my hobby, a few lockups here and there, the occasional ruined shot, and a reboot every so often, is just the price you pay for being cheap. When the planets align well, which the often do, the images are great.

I shoot in the studio with a converted polaroid and a grafmatic back, the idiot errors that I make on that rig have my keeper rate somewhere near the 60% mark, can a ZDB really be worse that that?

any comments apprecieated

Dave
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
You should add to your list an H20 (16 megapixel square) or H25 (rectangular 22 megapixels) from Phase One. These are studio-only (no LCD and must tether) but offer the same sensor as the P20+ and P25+ respectively. They mount to either a Hassy 500 body or a Mamiya RZ Pro II (non D).

You can tether and process with Capture One DB (included for free with the back) which is rock solid and very highly regarded here and in the greater marketplace.

Excellent image quality, no lockups, no fuss, excellent future upgradability (since you'll already know Capture One) and can be integrated into the same workflow as Canon/Nikon/Leica (because Capture One works with all of them - and indeed is the preferred software for many users of those cameras).

We have an H25 on our website for $4400; you'd have to ask one of the sales guys (Steve/Chris/Dave) what the going rate for an H20 is. http://www.captureintegration.com/2009/08/20/spring-cleaning/

That price includes all the accessories you need to tether to a standard mac.

I'm a pretty enthusiastic nude shooter as well. If you wanted to fly to Miami or Atlanta I'll even set up a test shoot for you in our studio with one of my models. (some of my work)
 
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gsking

New member
You should add to your list an H20 (16 megapixel square) or H25 (rectangular 22 megapixels) from Phase One. These are studio-only (no LCD and must tether) but offer the same sensor as the P20+ and P25+ respectively. They mount to either a Hassy 500 body or a Mamiya RZ Pro II (non D).

Excellent image quality, no lockups, no fuss, excellent future upgradability (since you'll already know Capture One) and can be integrated into the same workflow as Canon/Nikon/Leica (because Capture One works with all of them - and indeed is the preferred software for many users of those cameras).

We have an H25 on our website for $4400;
Doug,

So in short, comparing the ZDb vs. the H25, what are the differences?

Less crop factor on the H25? Same resolution but bigger sensor?

H25 has better ISO performance? A better sensor than the Dalsa 11mp on the H10? I find the H10 to have similar performance to what the ZDb is described as....not really worth using over ISO100.

So, you pay an extra $700 for the H25 and gain higher ISO performance, but have to use it in the studio where ironically high ISO won't do you much good?

And was the H25 ever made in Mamiya 645AFD mount?

Thanks,
Greg
 
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