Mamiya ZDB digital back - anyone using?

[dougpeterson]

Doug,

So in short, comparing the ZDb vs. the H25, what are the differences?

Less crop factor on the H25? Same resolution but bigger sensor?

H25 has better ISO performance? A better sensor than the Dalsa 11mp on the H10? I find the H10 to have similar performance to what the ZDb is described as....not really worth using over ISO100.

So, you pay an extra $700 for the H25 and gain higher ISO performance, but have to use it in the studio where ironically high ISO won't do you much good?

And was the H25 ever made in Mamiya 645AFD mount?

Absolutely not; the high ISO on the H25 is terrible (not any worse than the ZD, but still not useful to use at more than 100/200).

The sensor is the same size as the ZD.

It was only ever made in a Hassy/RZ mount.

The electronics and overall image quality are a full step ahead of the H10 - that was a big generational leap.

You lose
- an LCD and portable shooting
- the Mamiya 645 AFD Mount (no autofocus - bummer)
- on camera menus (not important in the studio)
- on camera histogram (nice in the studio - though not as nice a tethered histogram)

You get
- the hassy V mount (also Mamiya RZ pro II non D)
- direct Capture One tethered workflow
- an extremely hearty and field-tested camera which does not have many pages of threads complaining of strange artifacts, sensor errors, or other product problems
- absolutely rock solid build quality with zero moving parts, all metal chassis, and a very large installed base proving extreme longevity
- a 6 month warranty
- true 16 bit A/D converter. When increasing the contrast of your images (as I do in my nude images) the smoothness of the final product relies heavily on smooth gradations in the original file. The H25 will have this in spades.

Do NOT underestimate the importance of the tethered workflow when shooting in the studio. The software (features/speed/stability) are all absolutely positively first rate with an H25. Capture One suppots the ZD files, but not a direct tethered workflow - and direct tethering is always preferable to hot-folders (faster, more stable, more full featured).

In short, if you would use the back both in the field and the studio the ZD would be a much better choice. Since you're exclusively talking about (as I read it) shooting in the studio I would go with the H25. However, I'm very (and openly) biased towards Phase products.

The best possible thing you could do is get each product in your hand to see what it really means to setup, shoot, adjust, process, and deliver files from each system.

 

[dougpeterson]

So, you pay an extra $700 for the H25

The market tends to price used equipment pretty efficiently. The market is telling you that despite the lack of an LCD or portable shooting that the H25 is still a more sought after back.

It's whispering in your ear like a jealous lover.

 

[gsking]

Doug,

Ha ha, thanks for the info. Glad I won't have to look for an H25, then...since it doesn't exist for my camera.

And although the Zdb would be definitely more suitable for my use (rarely any studio), I've ironically got enough performance out of my H10. I don't need more resolution and the image quality is outstanding. And I've made it portable.

I agree the Capture One software is very impressive. It's got more horsepower than I know how to use.

I'd add that for use ONLY in the field, ANY DSLR would be better for my purposes...but that would take the fun out of using the MFDB and all the hassles. I liken it to shooting film (no feedback, etc)...but with lower cost and no scanning hassles.

Greg

 

[kdphotography]

It's whispering in your ear like a jealous lover.

...and all this coming from "an enthusiastic nude shooter" too.....

:ROTFL:

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Hey no streaking allowed on the forum. LOL

 

[Quentin_Bargate]

Incidentally why doesn't Cspture One support tethered shooting for the ZD and ZD back? Given the tie-up between Mamiya and Phase, I would have expected support to be added. C1 does suport some DSLR tethered capture. Of course Mamiya provide their own Digital Photo Studio tethered capture dsoftware but its not the greatest.

Quentin

 

[Shelby Lewis]

Do NOT underestimate the importance of the tethered workflow when shooting in the studio.

As someone who shot their first medium format digital back last night... i have to absolutely agree. I've never experienced something so empowering or helpful as tethering to c1. I've never tethered anything but a few large mouth bass and maybe a dog. I was trying out an h1 with a p30+ and later a phase body. I've been really interested in the 80mm and the 120 macro from both manufacturers, and the ability to compare on screen during a shoot was great.

I was also able to quickly check if I was able to manual focus (something I've never had to do in 35mm)...and found out I was good to go at close distance. Not so good at further distance.

For me... it was all about the wealth of data (image quality, color, etc...) at my fingertips that no 3" OLED screen could offer.

Cool...

 

[Guy Mancuso]

The power of MF. Hard to beat

 

[fotografz]

If I recall correctly, use of a Zeiss manual focus lens on a Mamiya 645 AF body provides focus confirmation in the viewfinder. Please corrected me if my memory is faulty.

 

[gsking]

If I recall correctly, use of a Zeiss manual focus lens on a Mamiya 645 AF body provides focus confirmation in the viewfinder. Please corrected me if my memory is faulty.

The 645AF focus confirmation requires no electrical contact from the lens (unlike the smug Sony system ).

So, yeah, I conclude it would work with any manual focus lens as well as it does with the Mamiya manual focus lenses.

 

[Jan Brittenson]

The focus confirmation has worked quite well for me with non-electronic lenses. (AFDII body though.)

 

[Christopher]

One could also ask why Phase One still after one year does not support live view on their newest back or Live View with ANY back on a windows workstation. God bless that I don't need it, otherwise i would have....., well you get the idea ;-)

 

[Don Libby]

Live view has long been a topic of discussion of conversation for medium format backs and centers around the different usage of sensors from those normally found in 35mm cameras that offer live view.

I might be in the minority however I hope manufactures never change sensor types as that is what helps give medium format in my opinion "the look" that is much better than 35mm and one of the things that made be switch platforms for my landscape work.

We've also got a 1DsIII that offers live view and other than see what it looked like right out of the box it's never been used.

Bottom line and this again is just my 2¢ worth - we'd be giving up too much of what helped motivated the move to MF should the sensors be changed just for the sake of live view.

Don

 

[ptomsu]

Same from my side, I use MF digital because of the unique qualities it offers over 35mm and life view is something which I so far never used other than playing around.

So please no tricky changes in MF to make life view happen and compromise IQ.

 

[carstenw]

Same from my side, I use MF digital

Ah, so you finally bought! What did you get?

 

[Don Libby]

I’ve no other excuse for this other than we’ve been without air conditioning for over a week and as anyone familiar with the Tucson area in September it just isn’t a great idea. The upside is that we’ve had several technicians/installers working of gutting and installing the needed parts. And now for the real reason of this post…

I posted a response earlier today addressing my thoughts on live view with MF. I thought that I’d add a couple thoughts to that earlier post; again this is all my opinion so that it with a grain of salt.

While live view would indeed be a nice thing to have I think it also would present several problems. The current size of the screens are in my opinion much too small to give an adequate detail that I’d be looking for regarding critical focus; I’m uncertain that given the screen size of say a 1DsIII (which I believe is near sports bar size when compared to my 1DsII) is even large enough. Then there’s the power and heat concerns that a larger screen might process. A larger screen may very well cause more heat as well as a shorter power life for the battery. Lets not forget the added noise from the added heat.

I’ll admit that it would be nice to have live view so that I could work better or smarter with my WRS; heck maybe there’d be no need for a viewfinder or groundglass!

I don’t believe based on what I’ve read regarding the sensor differences that we can expect to see live view any time soon; besides there has to be other improvements made to even make live view functional such as a larger screen. Again I do not want live view if it comes at the expense of the image quality I’ve become accustomed to.

On a slightly different side note, I’ve just resurrected an old Dell XPS M1210 sub-notebook I had sitting in my equipment locker. Dual core, SSD drive 4 USB ports and firewire, loaded with C1 Pro 4.0. I plan on taking this out for a test spin shortly tethered to the WRS/P45+ to see how much of a PIA it’ll be to actually this in the field.

Okay I’m officially done flogging :deadhorse:

Don