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Thread: Advice; would you buy into Blad V (200) system now?

  1. #1
    Jules
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    Advice; would you buy into Blad V (200) system now?

    Hi to all the folk here,
    I have been lurking for a little while, enjoying quite a few of the threads, thanks

    I would like to ask the people here their opinion (kinda sounds a long drawn out beginner question!) whether they think buying, into a hasse V set up is worthwhile at present, with the consideration that it will probably be kept for life and with a view to use it for MF digital in the future (not this year, not in the near future, but down the track).

    Some concerns I have are that, given the cost I could buy a canon 1D or 1Ds (III) and if I was to believe what is on the net, then often they seem to say that the Canon is as good as 120 film scanned now and also the difference between it and the MF dig is not noticeable! hmm doesn't seem right, I'm not after a debate but 'they' do say that so I have to wonder

    One thing that seems a real PITA is that not being a square digi format back, tipping the camera on its side for portrait is horrible, (I never did like using the 6x4.5 film backs) not that I ever really used a prism. speaking of prisms, I have heard/read somewhere here, that they arnt good enough to critically focus the digi backs? true/false?


    Would it be better (in your opinion) to save for a Hasselblad H set up...not the latest model, probably the oldest, eek?!


    I am familiar with the V cameras, I have used one for many years (the older 500 model) and though in the studio it never bothered me, while out in the field when wanting to be relatively quick, or when wanting to take a more candid shot, walking up to the subject taking light meter reading was always a bit of a pain. So, I am seriously considering getting a 205 (FCC if I could find one,Cambridge Camera advertise them new though, however the TCC appears just the same at a glance and more readily available), obviously for the spot meter (and shutter), which is the other method I am accustomed to working with.

    I know a lot of folk are happy with reflective/center weighted and the 203 is not a large circle but I am used to spot metering, it would take some adjusting to get comfortable with center weighted, I guess its possible to adapt, of course it is, whether its a good method for me is another question....

    Of course my other option is just to go with a manual blad again, 503cw, save some dollars, or rather that would mean I would get lenses and digi back quicker , but I might always be left wishing a I had the on board meter and 1/2000, which is why the 200 series, particularly if I use it out of the studio more often now, considering that its more for pleasure rather than work ...

    oh well, a bit dull, but let er rip!

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    Re: Advice; would you buy into Blad V (200) system now?

    the 16meg CFV backs are square, it is the CFV 39 that is landscape mode. I have take a few shots with both and loved it. I use the 205TCC which has the spot meter and, of course, the dreaded manual focus, which I happen to like. I also shoot 100% on a tripod

    Yes, the higher mag of the waist level finder is useful for nailing focus, though I have used the 45 degree metering prism successfuly.

    of course the lenses are fantastic, not too expensive and farily easy to find.

    finally Marc (fotografz) made me do it

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Advice; would you buy into Blad V (200) system now?

    You are talking about two completely different forms of camera. So, I think you have to decide which one fits your specific needs.

    Personally, I wouldn't care if God almighty proclaimed that a Canon 1D or 1Ds produced better images than a V camera using film ... I'd disagree my way straight to Hell But that's just me.

    I use a prism finder on a 203FE and have a flip magnifier for those times I have difficulty focusing.

    jlm is now ahead of me having the CFV/39 ... I have to muster up additional funds for one (depleted due to raiding my bank account for a Leica M9). Time for a gear-a-thon in the F/S section.

    In the mean time I'll just shoot film.

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    Re: Advice; would you buy into Blad V (200) system now?

    Any Phase One back in a Hassy V can be rotated to vertical or horizontal position so that you don't have to shoot the camera on it's side.

    Don't buy anything until you've tried it. Find a local dealer and go play.

    Doug

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    Re: Advice; would you buy into Blad V (200) system now?

    A little apples-to-oranges, but I'll take my Hassy over a Canon 1D2N w/L glass for image quality any day of the week. I say a-to-o because obviously one is film, one is digital (I don't have a digital back for the Hassy) but once the negative is scanned, is it not digital? I also really enjoy the Mamiya 7II for high quality negatives. Now of course the 1D2N is only 8.2MP but I've gotten some very nice, sharp shots out of it. But it just never compares to even a mediocre MF shot. Or the M8! IMO, Canon uses a far too aggressive AA filter. Sure it's good for moir, but it really softens the image and USM only helps so much. Maybe I'm stubborn but I don't buy into the "digital is better than film" argument so much. At least on the low-end.

    As for the Hassy itself, I don't find metering to be that big of an issue, and I use a 503CW. If you meter ahead of time for your light and dark areas, it's fast to set and film has a pretty good latitude to hide some amount of error, which you can further tweak during your scan or post. You could always get a metering prism from the PM5 to the PME45 (or PME90 if you prefer). I don't know if I'm going to myself, I like the light(er) weight of the WLF over a prism, let alone a metering one. Plus it has a higher magnification for focusing. I'm fairly certain I'm going digital with it once I can afford a back for it. Like you, this one's "for life."

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    Re: Advice; would you buy into Blad V (200) system now?

    Be aware that the only lenses you can purchase new on the Hasselblad V system are 40mm, 50mm, 80mm, and 150mm. So, committing to a V system means buying used for practical purposes. Nothing wrong there, save a little money and there's plenty of those lenses around.


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    Re: Advice; would you buy into Blad V (200) system now?

    ^ Plus the Carl Zeiss ZV ("Classic") lenses, if you have deep pockets.

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Advice; would you buy into Blad V (200) system now?

    1st of all I find the Hassy V-System to be really classic and have been tempted by it all the time.

    However I give you a different perspective too:

    If you are willing to buy second hand things anyways (what you would have to do for certain Hassy lenses and the 205 body) why not rather go for a Sinar Hy6-75LV?
    Why?
    not as sexy, but:
    - rotating back (which solves your problem for vertical shots with a WLF)
    - you can get the 75LV-Back for very good prices; Sinar guarantees service
    - all kinds of metering integrated in the camera
    - as an add on AF for some lenses (not the fastest though!)
    - the 75LV can be adapted easily to all kinds of cameras in the future
    - very nice lenses, Zeiss and Schneider lenses available

    Just a thought, not more. On the other side the V-System is really a "sexy" camera.

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    Re: Advice; would you buy into Blad V (200) system now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Negative View Post
    ...You could always get a metering prism from the PM5 to the PME45 (or PME90 if you prefer)...
    Since I can't edit the post any more, I'll correct here. That should be "PM51" for the EV-displaying metered prism. The PME45 is the latest model and displays shutter/aperture values.

  10. #10
    Jules
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    Re: Advice; would you buy into Blad V (200) system now?

    Thats ok DN, I understood what you meant with the prism, sometimes I am nearly swayed to choosing the 503cw and a metered prism for those outdoor occasions. Such a saving on purchase cost, repair sounds like it can be done by anyone (in the future as well) and cheaper than 200 series, also the $400-$500 cost of coverting a 203, 205 to use a digital back, losing the coupled film backs feature and cost is not a pleasant prospect...but, it has that shutter too! hard to resist!

    Those ZV lenses are attractive! pricy but WOW attractive

    t-streng, I did for a very short time look at the Hy6, but once I saw the new price I quickly dismissed them, I don't know for what price or if they are available secondhand?

    Thanks, Doug, I didn't realise that the Phase One backs rotated. Remove and replace I presume? easy?, not just rotate like the Hy6?

    Yeah, of course I appreciate that they (Dslr v blad) are different forms of camera, its just a niggling thought that wont go away. No question the blad suits me for film, and I can not see myself not shooting film anytime soon, at least for b&w, colour I could give up, I think. I don't shoot a lot of film I am sure compared to many, but I happened to be ruffly adding it up the other day and noticed I have spent at least a couple of thousand on film this year, to be fair not all is 120, some is LF, a very small amount 35mm. It would be a nice saving, dslr not as specific in use but more an all round camera I suppose or a camera that can be multi tasking

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    Re: Advice; would you buy into Blad V (200) system now?

    Your question is very apropos. I just picked up two 200-series Hasselblads for use with the CFV-39.

    Cons are that it's not exactly a modern system. There are a number of interlocks, cranks and buttons that need to be operated in different situations. If that sort of thing bothers you, I'd probably go with a more modern camera.

    Pros are that it is a real joy to use, for me anyway. It feels great in the hand, it is very responsive and delivers. The FE lenses are fast and most of the lenses deliver great results, are superbly damped and there are a plethora of lenses and accessories available.

    200 vs 500... 503CW is in production and the ergonomic winder is easy to purchase. (I actually have one for my 200, but they're difficult to find or a custom modification). Since the 200 is a 500 + a focal plane shutter camera you don't lose much by having both. But there can be a difference, depending on which digital back you buy.

    Phase + 500: Sync cable req'd, central shutter all speeds
    Phase + 200: Sync cable req'd, central shutter all speeds, focal plane shutter ??? (either unsupported or 1/90th max)
    CFV-39 + 500: No sync cable req'd, central shutter all speeds
    CFV-39 + 200: No sync cable req'd for focal plane shutter all speeds, sync cable required for central shutter all speeds

    Correct Phase is a remove and replace to rotate, whereas the CFV-39 requires you to turn the camera body .

    Hope that helps,
    -Brad
    Last edited by BradleyGibson; 24th September 2009 at 12:20.

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Advice; would you buy into Blad V (200) system now?

    Quote Originally Posted by BradleyGibson View Post
    Your question is very apropos. I just picked up two 200-series Hasselblads for use with the CFV-39.

    Cons are that it's not exactly a modern system. There are a number of interlocks, cranks and buttons that need to be operated in different situations. If that sort of thing bothers you, I'd probably go with a more modern camera.

    Pros are that it is a real joy to use, for me anyway. It feels great in the hand, it is very responsive and delivers. The FE lenses are fast and most of the lenses deliver great results, are superbly damped and there are a plethora of lenses and accessories available.

    200 vs 500... 503CW is in production and the ergonomic winder is easy to purchase. (I actually have one for my 200, but they're difficult to find or a custom modification). Since the 200 is a 500 + a focal plane shutter camera you don't lose much by having both. But there can be a difference, depending on which digital back you buy.

    Phase + 500: Sync cable req'd, central shutter all speeds
    Phase + 200: Sync cable req'd, central shutter all speeds, focal plane shutter ??? (either unsupported or 1/90th max)
    CFV-39 + 500: No sync cable req'd, central shutter all speeds
    CFV-39 + 200: No sync cable req'd for focal plane shutter all speeds, sync cable required for central shutter all speeds

    Correct Phase is a remove and replace to rotate, whereas the CFV-39 requires you to turn the camera body .

    Hope that helps,
    -Brad
    Hi Brad, just our of interest-if you would compare the V-"experience" withthe Hy6"experience" how would you describe it?
    How do you feel about the cv vs the Sinar backs?
    i dont want to hear one is better than the other, more about feel , experience and results...

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    Re: Advice; would you buy into Blad V (200) system now?

    a few other tidbits:
    the 200 series can also use the FE lenses, lighter and with big apertures (no b/w lens shutter)
    the 200's need a battery
    the CFV 39 is an amazing deal
    using blad backs requires you use blad raw software or convert to DNG (i've never tried converting). I find the software produces very nice files, but maybe not as many features as lightroom.

    I was using the Rollei 6008/P20, also a very nice system and the P20 files were excellent. Overall, the 205 felt better to me and the components are about 2/3 the size. very similar, fantastic optics. main reason for me to change was the CFV-39

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    Re: Advice; would you buy into Blad V (200) system now?

    Now it should be noted that there are a ton of choices in Medium Format besides the Hasselblad V systems ... most all of which allow you to use the Zeiss V lenses.

    For example, a Mamiya 645 or a Contax 645 ... and an V mount adapter. Both allow the use of film backs and take a number of different digital backs from Phase One, Leaf, Hasselblad (CFs) and even older Kodak Probacks (M645 or C645). These are focal plane shutters with a top shutter speed of 1/4000th. All 500 series CF, CFi and CFE or 200 series lenses can be used, and both cameras provide in-camera focus confirmation even with manual focus lenses. The disadvantage is that stop down metering and shooting is required and you do not have the option of using the fast sync speed of a central leaf shutter.

    The Hasselblad H1 and H2 can use film backs and can be fitted with matching backs from Phase One and Hasselblad, or from Leaf. The H series are strictly Leaf Shutter cameras and only leaf Shutter lenses can be used. However, all the 500 series (central Shutter) Zeiss V lenses can be used via the Hasselblad CF Adapter which is fully integrated with the camera so all metering and shooting is auto diaphragm stop down with these lenses. The H cameras also provide in-camera focus confirmation.

    Choices, choices

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    tetsrfun
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    Re: Advice; would you buy into Blad V (200) system now?

    using blad backs requires you use blad raw software or convert to DNG (i've never tried converting).
    *********
    LR will now load fff files directly from the "card".

    "I just picked up two 200-series Hasselblads "
    *********
    Where is a good place to look for 200 series?

    Steve

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    Re: Advice; would you buy into Blad V (200) system now?

    Quote Originally Posted by tetsrfun View Post
    using blad backs requires you use blad raw software or convert to DNG (i've never tried converting).
    *********
    LR will now load fff files directly from the "card".

    "I just picked up two 200-series Hasselblads "
    *********
    Where is a good place to look for 200 series?

    Steve
    From me Steve ... PM me and we'll talk.

    -Marc

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    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: Advice; would you buy into Blad V (200) system now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jules View Post
    Some concerns I have are that, given the cost I could buy a canon 1D or 1Ds (III)
    Don't do it...

    (trust me on this one... if the mf "look" is what you're used to, then don't give anything other than the sony a900 or the leica m9 a look in 35mm territory)

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    Re: Advice; would you buy into Blad V (200) system now?

    Now 2 questions regarding the Hassy:
    is the size of the 205 much different than the size of the Hassy CW/ 500 series?
    And what is a good price for a 205TC?
    How much costs the modification for digital?
    I am interested to experience one one day and if I could get one for a good price it might allow me to sell it afterwards without loosing much money.

    Some more comments... as a user of Hy6 I personally dont feel limited by 40mm as the widest but many people say that it is/was one of the biggest problems of the Hy-6 systems that 40 is the widest.

    I guess you would have the sme limitation with Hassy V? Except maybe if one buys additionally a SWC and then its 38mm, but no 28 or 35mm.
    Again-fine for me but something to keep in mind.

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    Re: Advice; would you buy into Blad V (200) system now?

    the 40 achieves a wider FOV with the CFV-39 which is 6x4.5, as opposed to the CFVI,II which are 3.9 x 3.9.

    there has been some mention that the 38 does not work with the CFV-39, but I have also heard it does??? maybe simply a vignetting problem, aperture related

  20. #20
    Jules
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    Re: Advice; would you buy into Blad V (200) system now?

    Quote Originally Posted by BradleyGibson View Post
    Your question is very apropos. I just picked up two 200-series Hasselblads for use with the CFV-39.

    Cons are that it's not exactly a modern system. There are a number of interlocks, cranks and buttons that need to be operated in different situations. If that sort of thing bothers you, I'd probably go with a more modern camera.

    Pros are that it is a real joy to use, for me anyway. It feels great in the hand, it is very responsive and delivers. The FE lenses are fast and most of the lenses deliver great results, are superbly damped and there are a plethora of lenses and accessories available.

    200 vs 500... 503CW is in production and the ergonomic winder is easy to purchase. (I actually have one for my 200, but they're difficult to find or a custom modification). Since the 200 is a 500 + a focal plane shutter camera you don't lose much by having both. But there can be a difference, depending on which digital back you buy.

    Phase + 500: Sync cable req'd, central shutter all speeds
    Phase + 200: Sync cable req'd, central shutter all speeds, focal plane shutter ??? (either unsupported or 1/90th max)
    CFV-39 + 500: No sync cable req'd, central shutter all speeds
    CFV-39 + 200: No sync cable req'd for focal plane shutter all speeds, sync cable required for central shutter all speeds

    Correct Phase is a remove and replace to rotate, whereas the CFV-39 requires you to turn the camera body .

    Hope that helps,
    -Brad
    Reading that over, about the backs, it does make the Phase One backs pretty much useless for a 200 series, or perhaps its the other way around, a 200 is pretty useless if pairing with Phase One. The CFV is ok but looses the rotating back

    Can't win hey!

  21. #21
    tetsrfun
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    Re: Advice; would you buy into Blad V (200) system now?

    there has been some mention that the 38 does not work with the CFV-39, but I have also heard it does??? maybe simply a vignetting problem, aperture related
    **********
    It's also not recommended with the CFVII. Hasselblad says not for "critical' use. There is a Hasselblad technical paper illustrated with "ray tracing" diagrams demonstrating the problem of the angle of light impacting the peripheral photo-receptors. (I can't find the link at the moment)..The few pictures that I have seen posted with the Biogon 38 + CFV39 looked good.

    There are also several comments that the system works better if the sync cable is used rather than the SWC setting. I have found that to be true with my CFV. I think the problem is that if the shutter release if pushed down slightly, it will activate the CFV at an inappropriate time.

    Steve

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    Re: Advice; would you buy into Blad V (200) system now?

    I bought a 205TCC from a forum member to use a few FE lenses I picked up at bargain prices. The FE lenses are faster than than the typical V lenses and focus closer. The camera has excellent old fashioned clunky ergonomics. I shoot film ( always B&W ) and it is a fun system.

    Being a gearhead I bought a CFV11 back to use on the modified 205TCC and the digital files I get from the lowly 16 megapixels are IMHO outstanding. I use a 50MM FE 0 the floating glass version a 100FE/2 (of course) and the excellent 250 FE s well as a 1.4X converter. The beuty of teh CFV11 is that it connects without need for sync cables and allows use of any shutter speed from teh focal plane body.

    Today you an pick up these systems really cheap. I think teh 500 series cameras mated to the bigger boy 39 megapixel CF just released is a great bargain though and teh V series lenses are more plentiful.

    Regarding rotating back - as indicated previously - use a Sinar Hy6 system - IMH even better glass - but stick to old style manual focus lenses. OR

    get a Phase One back and use t on an RZ - you get rotating back and can pick up a complete lens system and couple of bodies for next to nothing. The camera is limited to 1/400th - but the lenses arevery very underated.

    For wide shooting thought - nothing comes near the IQ I get from Alpa and Schneider 24/35 digitars.

    However all this stuff is at the margin at teh ned of the day what feels good for you in hand and makes you want to make photos is the way to go.

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