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Thread: H4D with new "True Focus/Absolute Position Lock" feature

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    Re: H4D with new "True Focus/Absolute Position Lock" feature

    Quote Originally Posted by anGy View Post
    I made a simple (too simple ?) test tonight:
    Facing a wall I measured the distance between me and the part of the wall just in front of me (this point being the center position of the frame) = 10 feet. Then I measured again between me (at the exact same position) to what would be the position of the corner of the frame on this wall. Distance increased by 3 inches.
    So if I had to focus on the corner position and move to center to recompose, does that mean that the focus point would be 3 inches to far for a correct corner focus ?

    In my example, and if I was using a 100mm lens at f5,6, it will also mean that I will also not have any OOF problem (15 inches DOF at this distance, normally 5 in front and 10 backwards, but here 5-3 = 2 in front and 13 backwards) so no big deal after all.
    Sure at 10ft from the wall the focus/recompose effect will be less, ie you will have sufficient DOF to compensate for the error. I shoot a fair bit of head and shoulder type crops wide open and there the effect (of the correction) is very apparent and (for me) extremely useful. Oh and don't forget the system works sideways as well very handy for say a nature guy wanting something to the edge of frame sharp.

    Nick-T

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    Re: H4D with new "True Focus/Absolute Position Lock" feature

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    It is a joy to read all the contributions in this thread .

    But . . . . I came to the conclusion , that pixelmania is a serious desease .
    It seems to be an addiction without a chance of curing . That includes me .

    Back to technical stuff .
    The CFV-39 has a pixelsize of 6,8 microns .
    The H3DII-50/H4d-50 has a pixelsize of 6,0 microns .

    Does anyone of you know the sensor and pixel sizes of the 60MP sensor ? ? ?

    Jürgen
    6 also. It's a bigger sensor.

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    Re: H4D with new "True Focus/Absolute Position Lock" feature

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick-T View Post
    Sure at 10ft from the wall the focus/recompose effect will be less, ie you will have sufficient DOF to compensate for the error. I shoot a fair bit of head and shoulder type crops wide open and there the effect (of the correction) is very apparent and (for me) extremely useful. Oh and don't forget the system works sideways as well very handy for say a nature guy wanting something to the edge of frame sharp.

    Nick-T
    Okay, another test at closer range will possibly show quicker OOF problems then. It should be nice to have a better feeling of the improvements of this new technique. Maybe it's a must only for close-ups, maybe it's useless for landscapes .

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    Re: H4D with new "True Focus/Absolute Position Lock" feature

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    6 also. It's a bigger sensor.
    Thanks Marc

    It did some research at KODAK and DALSA .
    The H4D-60 sensor as well as the H4D-50 must be DALSA sensors .

    The 60MP sensor is 40,4x53,9 mm and has the new 6 micron technology .
    The 50MP sensor is 37x49 mm and also has the 6 micron technology but obviously a different crop factor .

    I wonder , if the V-system ZEISS lenses have a sufficient enough resolution for the 6 micron pixels .

    If the ZEISS glass is good enough , why do we then have SCHNEIDER and LINOS/RODENSTOCK special "digitars and digital" lenses ? ? ?

    Is this just a trick to make more money ? ? ?

    I have done some tests with the ZEISS MACRO PLANAR CFE 4/120 and the CFV-39 (6,8 micron pixels) and have the impresion , this lens has come to its limit .
    With or without lens correction in PHOCUS .

    Jürgen

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    Re: H4D with new "True Focus/Absolute Position Lock" feature

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    Thanks Marc
    It did some research at KODAK and DALSA .
    The H4D-60 sensor as well as the H4D-50 must be DALSA sensors .

    The 60MP sensor is 40,4x53,9 mm and has the new 6 micron technology .
    The 50MP sensor is 37x49 mm and also has the 6 micron technology but obviously a different crop factor .
    Jürgen
    The 50MP is from Kodak

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    Re: H4D with new "True Focus/Absolute Position Lock" feature

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    Thanks Marc

    It did some research at KODAK and DALSA .
    The H4D-60 sensor as well as the H4D-50 must be DALSA sensors .

    The 60MP sensor is 40,4x53,9 mm and has the new 6 micron technology .
    The 50MP sensor is 37x49 mm and also has the 6 micron technology but obviously a different crop factor .

    I wonder , if the V-system ZEISS lenses have a sufficient enough resolution for the 6 micron pixels .

    If the ZEISS glass is good enough , why do we then have SCHNEIDER and LINOS/RODENSTOCK special "digitars and digital" lenses ? ? ?

    Is this just a trick to make more money ? ? ?

    I have done some tests with the ZEISS MACRO PLANAR CFE 4/120 and the CFV-39 (6,8 micron pixels) and have the impresion , this lens has come to its limit .
    With or without lens correction in PHOCUS .

    Jürgen

    Most of the V series zeiss lenses come very close to the resolution of the H series lenses but are optimized differently. The H lenses are very similar in resolution to the new Phase One D lenses. It is true that the Schneider/Rodenstock lenses are better, resolve higher, especially at the edges.

    The 120mm in particular may not be a great lens for digital. I haven't compared it to the H series 120mm version, but we have compared the H series 120mm to the Phase One 120mm and I was surprised at the difference. By inference, this perhaps sheds some light on the capability of the CFE 120mm/F4.

    http://www.captureintegration.com/tests/phase-one/


    Steve Hendrix
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Digital Cam: • Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Sinar • Authorized Reseller
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    Re: H4D with new "True Focus/Absolute Position Lock" feature

    The Zeiss-lenses from the V-systems are quite old, most of them are over 30 years old designs. The 40IF is one of the few current designs and superior to most other WA-lenses.
    The Schneider/Rodenstock-"digital"-lenses are much newer designs and take the cover glass in front of the sensor into account which may help to reduce aberrations.
    Delivering high contrast with few aberrations at 80lp/mm (6µm-pixel-pitch) is possible with most current lenses stopped down and medium image height. Open aperture and corner performance make the difference.

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    Re: H4D with new "True Focus/Absolute Position Lock" feature

    I made a simple (too simple ?) test tonight:
    You can actually test the principle without needing a camera! Take a stick about 1 meter long and hold one end securely against the side of your head. Stand so the other end of the stick just touches a wall. Tilt your head up and down and notice how the distance between the wall and the end of the stick varies. (Warning: You will look really silly doing this, so make sure you have privacy!)

    Just playing with this idea for a few seconds, I found it was easy to get 1-1/2 to 2 inches of change with only a small head tilt -- about the amount I might need recomposing from a centered to an off-center point.

    Two inches isn't significant in most kinds of photography, but it definitely IS significant if you're shooting head shots at fairly wide apertures (such as to throw distracting backgrounds out of focus.) A two-inch change is enough to shift the plane of best focus from your subject's eye to the tip of his/her nose, and this definitely will be noticeable in the final results!

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    Re: H4D with new "True Focus/Absolute Position Lock" feature

    Here is the data sheet for the H4D 60:
    http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/2...asheets_v1.pdf

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    Re: H4D with new "True Focus/Absolute Position Lock" feature

    I just read an interesting tid-bit on another forum dedicated to Hasselblad. Evidently a photographer on that forum ordered the new focus upgrade for an existing 39 meg camera.

    If that is true ... it is a big deal since I wouldn't sell off my existing H3D-II/39 just upgrade it. I will investigate if this true.

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    Re: H4D with new "True Focus/Absolute Position Lock" feature

    oh thats very interesting..

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    Re: H4D with new "True Focus/Absolute Position Lock" feature

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I just read an interesting tid-bit on another forum dedicated to Hasselblad. Evidently a photographer on that forum ordered the new focus upgrade for an existing 39 meg camera.

    If that is true ... it is a big deal since I wouldn't sell off my existing H3D-II/39 just upgrade it. I will investigate if this true.
    I do hope so but this is what Hasselblad rep recently posted on another thread.

    ""Will there be a H4D31/39 and will there be improved display on those too?

    The 31 and 39 will remain as H3DII31 and H3DII39.



    We do have a trade in program where you can turn in a H or V camera and Hasselblad digital magazine or any MF camera and 3rd party digital back.

    Hasselblad Partner locator

    Click on the state and you will see who your Hasselblad Regional Sales Manager is, feel free to contact them directly. You can also click on country and be shown the Hasselblad subsidiary and a list dealers.

    I received confirmation today that both the H4D50 and H4D60 will have the new display.

    Resolution 460,400
    3 Inch, 24 bit, TFT display
    There is an improvement in contrast and also when viewing the display at increased angles."

    [Paul Claesson
    Field Applications Specialist
    Hasselblad USA]

    Bob

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    Re: H4D with new "True Focus/Absolute Position Lock" feature

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I just read an interesting tid-bit on another forum dedicated to Hasselblad. Evidently a photographer on that forum ordered the new focus upgrade for an existing 39 meg camera.

    If that is true ... it is a big deal since I wouldn't sell off my existing H3D-II/39 just upgrade it. I will investigate if this true.
    Mark,

    Hasselblad offers a Trade in Program. You can trade in your existing 16, 18, 22, 31, 39 mega-pixel back and V or H camera body or other medium format system and move to an H3DII50, H4D50, H3DII50MS, H4D50MS or H4D60.
    I suggest consulting with your Hasselblad dealer or Hasselblad Regional Manager for pricing and options.

    Paul Claesson
    Hasselblad USA

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    Re: H4D with new "True Focus/Absolute Position Lock" feature

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix View Post
    Most of the V series zeiss lenses come very close to the resolution of the H series lenses but are optimized differently. The H lenses are very similar in resolution to the new Phase One D lenses. It is true that the Schneider/Rodenstock lenses are better, resolve higher, especially at the edges.

    The 120mm in particular may not be a great lens for digital. I haven't compared it to the H series 120mm version, but we have compared the H series 120mm to the Phase One 120mm and I was surprised at the difference. By inference, this perhaps sheds some light on the capability of the CFE 120mm/F4.

    http://www.captureintegration.com/tests/phase-one/


    Steve Hendrix
    This is a very interesting test. Hasselblad has published tests comparing the Hasselblad V series lenses to the Hasselblad H series lenses. In the article they included the MTF charts for the lenses.

    You can download the article here:
    http://www.hasselblad.dk/downloads/t...-articles.aspx

    I was wondering, do you have a link to where I can see the MTF charts for the new Mamiya/Phase One lenses? I would be very interested in seeing them.

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    Re: H4D with new "True Focus/Absolute Position Lock" feature

    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth View Post
    This is a very interesting test. Hasselblad has published tests comparing the Hasselblad V series lenses to the Hasselblad H series lenses. In the article they included the MTF charts for the lenses.

    You can download the article here:
    http://www.hasselblad.dk/downloads/t...-articles.aspx

    I was wondering, do you have a link to where I can see the MTF charts for the new Mamiya/Phase One lenses? I would be very interested in seeing them.

    Elizabeth - I'll see what I can come up with.

    Thanks,
    Steve
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Digital Cam: • Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Sinar • Authorized Reseller
    TechCam: • Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar • Authorized Reseller

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    Re: H4D with new "True Focus/Absolute Position Lock" feature

    Hi,

    I recently purchased a Hasselblad H3DII-31, I absolutely love this camera. It has made me appreciate what composing really is; every shot matters, everything in front of this camera is important.
    I was a little miffed when I saw the price promotion go down $2000, but I've been intrigued by the TRUE FOCUS feature of the H4D 40 and find that could be very useful. Also, the extra pixels, longer exposures etc.

    I've been offered my full purchase price for a trade up to H4D and would appreciate any thoughts from photographers that are familiar with these two systems.

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    Re: H4D with new "True Focus/Absolute Position Lock" feature

    Quote Originally Posted by anGy View Post
    I made a simple (too simple ?) test tonight:
    Facing a wall I measured the distance between me and the part of the wall just in front of me (this point being the center position of the frame) = 10 feet. Then I measured again between me (at the exact same position) to what would be the position of the corner of the frame on this wall. Distance increased by 3 inches.
    So if I had to focus on the corner position and move to center to recompose, does that mean that the focus point would be 3 inches to far for a correct corner focus ?

    In my example, and if I was using a 100mm lens at f5,6, it will also mean that I will also not have any OOF problem (15 inches DOF at this distance, normally 5 in front and 10 backwards, but here 5-3 = 2 in front and 13 backwards) so no big deal after all.
    Your logic might be right but in my experience the difference between a tack sharp MF image and one that might be called acceptable is huge. The former jumps off the page and the best I can say about the latter is it might be acceptable, but not what I'm after. If I miss focus by 3" the image is probably headed to the trash bin. Also, if I'm not mistaken, the DOF guides are not all that accurate for digital backs and get less accurate as the MP increases.

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    Re: H4D with new "True Focus/Absolute Position Lock" feature

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Your logic might be right but in my experience the difference between a tack sharp MF image and one that might be called acceptable is huge. The former jumps off the page and the best I can say about the latter is it might be acceptable, but not what I'm after. If I miss focus by 3" the image is probably headed to the trash bin. Also, if I'm not mistaken, the DOF guides are not all that accurate for digital backs and get less accurate as the MP increases.
    Exactly -- well said David.
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: H4D with new "True Focus/Absolute Position Lock" feature

    Now I wonder how you focus for example on an eye with the large focus points of MF-cameras?

    The ones in my Nikon do work fine, but with my Hy6 I can just focus on the face (same was with the ZD and also with the S2 prototype I once had in my hands).

    If the area the sensor focuses on is large (which I believe is the case with MF cameras this means one can only use the AF reliable for larger subjects which include some "flat" areas to focus on.
    If I focus with my Hy6 the marked AF-sensor area covers the whole face. So where will it focus? Nose or eyes?

    Got my Hy6 back from Sinar, focus locks quite a bit better now, still I feel with a fast lens my eyes work better than the AF, at least when using fast lenses wide open.

    Is the focus sensor area of the Hassy much smaller? Would be more important for me than the true focus feature.

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