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Thread: Tease of the year?

  1. #1
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Tease of the year?

    I have in my hot little hand the NEW PhaseOne body, the 645DF. And, just to make things even more exciting, the new 80mm leaf shutter lens.

    I'm heading out the door to test them - pre-production but waaay past prototype so watch this and other spaces for further news.

    I will post some comparative test shots later of the 80 leaf vs the 80d, plus some impressions as to the ergonomics and performance of the new body.

    Later!

    t

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Yup---you win. You've got my vote for tease of the year!


  3. #3
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Right. I'm backl after a while shooting with the new setup and in the meantime the press release is out so I don't need to be coy about the fact that the optics in the leaf lens are Schneider.

    I am about to dive in to Capture One land for the pixel level details on the lens but on the body itself: (all comments relative to AFDIII)

    It looks a bit bigger but feels a little smaller or possibly just a little better.

    Shutter lag is indeed significantly reduced. However, on using MUP, there is still the irritating delay on shutter release with the little whir noise that sounds like the camera is trying to focus even though it's done that already. The shutter button has a smoother and easier release which will make users of the AFDIII trigger it unintentionally at first.

    AF is clearly faster but my loaner still hunts a little compared to a pro DSLR and its Continuous mode isn't notably great.

    The shutter realease cycle including mirror action feels a little smoother and less jerky but it is still quite a whack and though possibly a touch quieter, it has added to it the extra noise of the leaf shutter doing it's thing when it is doing it's thing.

    Importantly, the default setting for the camera is to use leaf shutter until a shutter speed over 1/800th is needed (in AV mode) and then it automatically switches to focal plane shutter BUT in Custom Functions you can force it to use FP if you want to.

    The new tactile buttons don't feel significantly better to me.

    I really like the three new Custom Settings positions on the main dial.

    Right, back with images soon.

    EDIT: PLEASE NOTE - the version I have is pretty much ready for release physically but the FW is still being tweaked and some aspects of its performance might well still be optimised.

    Tim
    Last edited by tashley; 28th September 2009 at 10:54.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Okay you get the tease award for sure. Already Jack and I are number 1 and 2 to buy one. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Yup---you win. You've got my vote for tease of the year!


    Indeed Tim,

    You're the biggest photo tease yet
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  6. #6
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Okay you get the tease award for sure. Already Jack and I are number 1 and 2 to buy one. LOL
    and I hope you enjoy them! Clearly the shorter lag, faster AF and usefulness of higher flash sync speeds will be the main inducements here. My first take is that everything is a bit better but that this is a welcome progression rather than a step change.

    I'm about to write a few lines about the new lens compared to the old.

  7. #7
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Jack, it's not just limited to photography!






    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post


    Indeed Tim,

    You're the biggest photo tease yet

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Jack, it's not just limited to photography!


    Uh, I guess I'll have to take your word for that...

    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Optical results

    Right. I'm not going to post endless test shots and rigourous stuff with charts and tripods, though I have done some of that.

    I have spent the best part of an hour poring over clinically accurate shots of the old versus the new lenses at the same range of apertures, with and without MUP, all on tripod/cube etc and there is pretty much no difference in sharpness. Or rather, the tiny differences I did see are most likely due to tiny differences in AF. If really really pressed I would say that wide open the new lens might be very very slightly sharper in the corners. Might just be.

    Similarly pushed I would admit to a suspicion that the old lens was slightly sharper at the edges at F16.

    BUT these differences are tiny tiny tiny, more likely due to sample variation or AF differences. I would not prefer either lens on this basis alone.

    Bokeh is supposed to be the selling point of the new lens (other than its leaf shutter functions of course) and I did shoot a series to display this, using identical framing and tripod and so on BUT the AF on one of the key frames decided to focus on different areas within the central circle (despite identical framing) so I won't show those Instead, these handheld shots at F2.8 and F4 will have to do despite slightly different framings - focus on all of them is very accurately on the angle's face.


    Leaf Lens F2.8



    'Old' lens F2.8





    Leaf Lens F4



    'Old' lens F4

    What do people think?

  10. #10
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    And the upgrade news is...

    ...that depending on when you bought your AFDIII you might get the chance to upgrade to the new version at a very significant discount to the price of a new body alone.

    Also, there'll be a new handgrip that will allow vertical release, take a battery the same as the Phase backs, and will allow for body FW upgrades without return to base...

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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Nice to see Phase/Mamiya finally deliver on their promises. Once the grip comes out, I think they have delivered all they have promised, right?

    The boke and sharpness in these images looks indistinguishable. Do you see something anywhere, other than the possible slight corner differences? In your other images?

    The open question on my mind is if this changes anything for anyone other than flash/studio photographers. The slight improvements will not likely sway anyone, if one ignores the leaf shutter lenses, unless I missed something. The 55 or 110 might sway someone, I suppose. Tim, you once said that you hated the Phase body. Has this changed?
    Carsten - Website

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Optical results

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Right. I'm not going to post endless test shots and rigourous stuff with charts and tripods, though I have done some of that.

    I have spent the best part of an hour poring over clinically accurate shots of the old versus the new lenses at the same range of apertures, with and without MUP, all on tripod/cube etc and there is pretty much no difference in sharpness. Or rather, the tiny differences I did see are most likely due to tiny differences in AF. If really really pressed I would say that wide open the new lens might be very very slightly sharper in the corners. Might just be.

    Similarly pushed I would admit to a suspicion that the old lens was slightly sharper at the edges at F16.

    BUT these differences are tiny tiny tiny, more likely due to sample variation or AF differences. I would not prefer either lens on this basis alone.

    Bokeh is supposed to be the selling point of the new lens (other than its leaf shutter functions of course) and I did shoot a series to display this, using identical framing and tripod and so on BUT the AF on one of the key frames decided to focus on different areas within the central circle (despite identical framing) so I won't show those Instead, these handheld shots at F2.8 and F4 will have to do despite slightly different framings - focus on all of them is very accurately on the angle's face.


    Leaf Lens F2.8



    'Old' lens F2.8





    Leaf Lens F4



    'Old' lens F4

    What do people think?

    Certainly not worse . I see a small improvement wide open and it maybe contrast. Sharpness hard to tell until we get to the pixel level and really test it out but certainly the added leaf shutter is a benefit. Myself the 55 and 110 seem to be what I would want
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  13. #13
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    More bokeh comparisons


    (Above) 'Old' lens, MUP, F5.6


    (Above) Leaf lens, MUP, F5.6

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    Re: Tease of the year?

    The boke on the second shot may be a teeny tiny bit softer. Did you really switch from new/old to old/new?
    Carsten - Website

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Looks like it has more mid range contrast ala the Clarity in C1. Tim just for kicks bump the Phase lens a notch on clarity in C1 bet that maybe the difference I am seeing.

    Actually take that back . I thought The Phase was the bottom image reverse that request
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Nice to see Phase/Mamiya finally deliver on their promises. Once the grip comes out, I think they have delivered all they have promised, right?

    The boke and sharpness in these images looks indistinguishable. Do you see something anywhere, other than the possible slight corner differences? In your other images?

    The open question on my mind is if this changes anything for anyone other than flash/studio photographers. The slight improvements will not likely sway anyone, if one ignores the leaf shutter lenses, unless I missed something. The 55 or 110 might sway someone, I suppose. Tim, you once said that you hated the Phase body. Has this changed?
    I see very very slightly nicer (gentler, more poetic, dreamier) bokeh from the new lens, which I think has slightly less contrast at mid apertures - but only very very slightly!

    As to my old enmity with the body. Hmmm. I must say, this one is an improvement.... but I ain't falling in love just yet! I need another few hours with it. First off, it's such a relief to have small improvements but it still sounds and feels a bit like a barn door going off in your hand. Just a smaller barn door in a less ferocious wind. Also, since I only have one back (poor me!) I can't switch quickly from one to the other for direct comparisons.

    The real test will be a direct comparison with the S2, rather than me trying to compare the two from memory. And production models will be important to that comparison.

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    The boke on the second shot may be a teeny tiny bit softer. Did you really switch from new/old to old/new?
    Yup, I took detailed notes and my labels are accurate!

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Looks like it has more mid range contrast ala the Clarity in C1. Tim just for kicks bump the Phase lens a notch on clarity in C1 bet that maybe the difference I am seeing.

    Actually take that back . I thought The Phase was the bottom image reverse that request
    OK Guy, now I AM lost! But if you see the leaf lens as being lower contrast in these shots at F5.6 (of the cross with the church wall behind) then you're right.
    I see that in most series of comparative shots where the subject matter doesn't have huge contrast range. It gets swamped in the cherub shots cos there's higher contrast in the scene and the setup changed a little but in all the tripod series, the leaf lens is lower contrast and that gives slightly nicer bokeh BUT as we all know, Clarity sliders KILL bokeh!

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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Thanks for sharing these Tim.

    To my eyes, IQ are about the same. I think the new "D" Sekor lenses have done well.

    I can continue to use my existing lenses with the FP shutter on this body and perhaps pick up the 110mm f/2.8 when that is available. That would be my motivation to use my upgrade offer.

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Goh View Post
    Thanks for sharing these Tim.

    To my eyes, IQ are about the same. I think the new "D" Sekor lenses have done well.

    I can continue to use my existing lenses with the FP shutter on this body and perhaps pick up the 110mm f/2.8 when that is available. That would be my motivation to use my upgrade offer.
    I agree 100%. The upgrade offer is a good deal and the differences are worth it but on current showing I'd be buying the 110 LS as my studio portrait lens and the 55LS as my location 'balance flash with ambient' lens but I wouldn't be replacing the 80D with the 80LS, simply because the 80D is a very hard act to follow!

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    OK Guy, now I AM lost! But if you see the leaf lens as being lower contrast in these shots at F5.6 (of the cross with the church wall behind) then you're right.
    I see that in most series of comparative shots where the subject matter doesn't have huge contrast range. It gets swamped in the cherub shots cos there's higher contrast in the scene and the setup changed a little but in all the tripod series, the leaf lens is lower contrast and that gives slightly nicer bokeh BUT as we all know, Clarity sliders KILL bokeh!
    Yes sorry i should have actually rewrote the whole post but yes i see the leaf lens as a little lower in the mid range contrast and yes Clarity can affect the bokeh . I was just wondering how much it was in value more than anything else.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Tease of the year?

    For current AFDIII users that deal with more speed issue the upgrade path is certainly worth it alone. Folks thinking of getting into the system may see it as a normal purchase and what the body should be but us users currently see the upgrade in a little different light and more a must have now. Certainly some real improvements for me for sure. Also it will be a better selling point for Phase dealers that they have a camera designed for digital and now with the leaf lenses a no compromises selling position. Overall this is a very good announcement and I will say Hassy as well with there H4 announcement. What is good is even through some very difficult economic troubles in the world they both found the resources to plow forward. That alone is a good sign for the industry and hopefully everyone thinks the same. Sure may not be all that you wanted but the progress alone is awesome.

    For me this is what i was really after was a better body. This made my day
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Tim, did they reintroduce the possibility of having AF on the rear button?
    Carsten - Website

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Tim, did they reintroduce the possibility of having AF on the rear button?
    Not as far as I can see but I have no documentation other than a provisional CF list so I will have to check it out in the morning!

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Shake performance at 1/5th sec, leaf vs non leaf.

    The following is at F16, 1/5th of a second with the new leaf lens, MUP



    The next is the old lens on the new body but with FP shutter, also at F16, 1/5th and MUP


    I think this shows that with a good tripod (a Gitzo Carbon Fibre GT3541LS ) and head (Arca Cube) the benefits of the leaf shutter from the POV of shake are not significant. More intriguing would be the same test with a less stable (and lighter!) rig, which I no longer have to hand but which might show that the leaf shutter makes a difference with easier to travel with tripod and head combinations...

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Shake performance at 1/5th sec, leaf vs non leaf.

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    I think this shows that with a good tripod (a Gitzo Carbon Fibre GT3541LS ) and head (Arca Cube) the benefits of the leaf shutter from the POV of shake are not significant.


    Can I say, "I told you so!" now?

    What's interesitng to me here, is the FP lens actually looks sharper (and obviously better contrast) than the LS lens, which is perhaps a function of the former being better optimized for close focus distances?
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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Tim:

    Can you confirm the new body did away with the 6 AA battery thing and went to Li+ batteries that charge on the Phase back charger?
    Jack
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Tim:

    Can you confirm the new body did away with the 6 AA battery thing and went to Li+ batteries that charge on the Phase back charger?
    Jack, the battery pack remains unchanged - in fact I took the one from my 645III as a spare and it worked. There should be an optional vertical grip at some point which will take the same battery as the Phase backs and also allow body FW updates.

    The unchanged battery pack is one of the reasons I'd describe the new body as an evolution not a revolution. It's a useful update and for those (such as me) eligible for the upgrade, worthwhile but not earth shattering. I did ask if there was to be at least a NiCad pack that fits the slot but can be charged together as one unit, like in some Metz guns, and it is apparently a possibility.

    Phase and Hassy both made announcements today - just as the S2 is about to ship. FOr many people considering an S2, these two announcements would appear guaranteed to muddy the water - especially since the upgrade pricing is attractive on the new Phase body and will require people to apply soon but probably not get the swap-out until Q1 2010. So they will be less likely to sell their current body second hand now when a wait of three to four months will give them a more valuable body for a low price. And if they aren't going to sell their old body now, they might be holding of any switch to the S2 that would have been funded by such a sale...

    It's a tough time to be making decisions here!

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Shake performance at 1/5th sec, leaf vs non leaf.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post


    Can I say, "I told you so!" now?
    Go on dude, say it: you know how good it feels!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    What's interesitng to me here, is the FP lens actually looks sharper (and obviously better contrast) than the LS lens, which is perhaps a function of the former being better optimized for close focus distances?
    I think it probably isn't sharper in any appreciable way but has stronger contrast and therefore acutance, which might also be why the newer lens has nicer bokeh. That opinion is a tough call though, and I'd like to do some more shooting before I'd put my money where my mouth is!

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Jack, the battery pack remains unchanged - in fact I took the one from my 645III as a spare and it worked.
    Okay, I just finished my evening martini, but frigging *#$^%! &#^*, @#*%, @^&& and #$*&^*! How hard could it have been?

    There should be an optional vertical grip at some point which will take the same battery as the Phase backs and also allow body FW updates.
    Ewwwwe... goodie gee wow.

    The unchanged battery pack is one of the reasons I'd describe the new body as an evolution not a revolution. It's a useful update and for those (such as me) eligible for the upgrade, worthwhile but not earth shattering.
    Yep. well stated...
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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Shake performance at 1/5th sec, leaf vs non leaf.

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    I think it probably isn't sharper in any appreciable way but has stronger contrast and therefore acutance, which might also be why the newer lens has nicer bokeh. That opinion is a tough call though, and I'd like to do some more shooting before I'd put my money where my mouth is!
    Well it appears both slightly sharper and with obviously better micro contrast. I see bokeh as a virtual draw at this point -- looking at the pointed headstone background right in the first two image sets, it appears to me that both have basically the same line patterning, soft and neither is bad, but then neither is perfect. However, it is good to see the Schneider can hold it's own against the Mamiya glass. (Okay, feeling the heat! )
    Jack
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  32. #32
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: Tease of the year?

    I have to say that, in the first few sample shots, that the bokeh seems noticeably nicer... not a huge, smack you in the face, difference... but still there. Looking at flowers in the far bg as well as the top edge of the wall in the upper left. Especially @ 2.8. I appreciate that even with higher microcontrast that the bg doesn't get wiry. To me, that's one of the hallmarks of fine lenses... sharpness and (brutal ) microcontrast at the focal plane in combination with a very fluid bokeh.

    The new leaf lens is getting there. I'd like to see some shots in different environs.

    Thanks Tim!

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    Re: Tease of the year?

    I think you guys are seeing things...re bokeh ??

    Tashley - nice post - well done ..yep keep buying those batteries boyz..

    but it IS good that there is now another 'player' releasing Leaf lenses - on a body that can shoot both Leaf and Focal plane -without the convertor ala 'Blad

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    Re: Tease of the year?

    This reminds me a bit of some committees upon which I sit.
    Folks studying out-of-focus blobs and rendering judgment.
    These look too close to call IMO.
    But the body sounds interesting and I am sure a leaf lens will be coming my way soon I hope. The 110 I think.
    -bob

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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Very good post. The images are interesting. At first glance, there didn't seem to be much difference - but look on the top of the first images - at the framing of the rectangular elements (tombstones, or in one of the pictures, a vertical window). The OOF rendition of the leaf lens is more gentle, the transition from the striaght line to blur is more smooth. In the FP lens, there are more remnants of the strong vertical edge still lingering in the image.

    For me, this is one of the great strengths of the Schneider lenses on the Rollei system: the OOF rendition is just ... creamy smooth. Very delightful. It may not show up well in the reduced on line version, but its there nonetheless. A good Leica lens has it too, but there are examples of both that can lose it also. For example, the 60 mm Schneider is fantastic, the 40 mm a bit harder edge to it. Still good, but not quite the same. It may take some time to figure out the specific quality of each lens design.

    Does anyone know if these are new formulations by Schneider, or just new housings?

    Geoff

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    Re: Tease of the year?

    One thing to keep in mind is that the 80mm f/2.8 lens is not really the place to look for huge differences. These designs are old and relatively standard, with minor tweaks. The only one with a significantly different design is the Leica 70mm f/2.5, as far as I know.

    I will be much more curious to compare the 55mm to the Contax, and the 110mm to the Zeiss and HC Hasselblad 100mm lenses, and the F/FE and Rollei 110mm.
    Carsten - Website

  37. #37
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Very good post. The images are interesting. At first glance, there didn't seem to be much difference - but look on the top of the first images - at the framing of the rectangular elements (tombstones, or in one of the pictures, a vertical window). The OOF rendition of the leaf lens is more gentle, the transition from the striaght line to blur is more smooth. In the FP lens, there are more remnants of the strong vertical edge still lingering in the image.

    For me, this is one of the great strengths of the Schneider lenses on the Rollei system: the OOF rendition is just ... creamy smooth. Very delightful. It may not show up well in the reduced on line version, but its there nonetheless. A good Leica lens has it too, but there are examples of both that can lose it also. For example, the 60 mm Schneider is fantastic, the 40 mm a bit harder edge to it. Still good, but not quite the same. It may take some time to figure out the specific quality of each lens design.

    Does anyone know if these are new formulations by Schneider, or just new housings?

    Geoff
    Thank you Geoff and well spotted: my opinion is exactly as you observed, and I can't describe it better than you. The interesting thing for me was that I was considering a move to the S2 system precisely because of the lack of poetry in the rendition of the Phase/Mamiya glass, whereas I am now back to the drawing board, given that these lenses sound significantly cheaper than the new Leica glass...

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    Re: Tease of the year?

    wasnt there a roumor some time ago that the new Mamiya should have an interchangable viewfinder? Did they skip this idea?

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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Am I the only one who finds the bokeh of the new lens to be busier?
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Am I the only one who finds the bokeh of the new lens to be busier?
    Nope -- but I would add it depends where in the images you look. In some areas the old lens is a bit busier, in others it's the new lens that's a bit busier -- and I'd add we are talking mostly irrelevant differences to begin with. And thus why I called them a relative tie
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    About the Leaf shutter

    Naturally one would hope that the MUP behaviour of the body would be:

    Press One > MUP, FP shutter opens, Leaf shutter closes.
    Press Two > Leaf shutter opens for exposure, closes, then FP closes and mirror comes down. Or even, possibly, FP shutter stays open and mirror stays up until shutter is released, sort of like the M8.2 or M9.

    At the moment my guess from using the setup and listening to it is that the FP shutter doesn't open until Press Two. But this is pre-release FW and it is undoubtedly Phase's intention to fix this before sales begin.

    Just my opinion here, it's kinda hard to tell - but I am seeing no difference, at any shutter speed, in shake between using the new lens in MUP or non-MUP mode. Nor is there a real difference in sound.

    T

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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Actually I like the bite of the Old lens myself. Has more punch but that is my taste. The bokeh seems to me subject to distance and subject. Maybe like the new one a little better there. Bottom line you lose nothing either way and the leaf shutter is more valuable for some.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    One thing to keep in mind is that the 80mm f/2.8 lens is not really the place to look for huge differences. These designs are old and relatively standard, with minor tweaks. The only one with a significantly different design is the Leica 70mm f/2.5, as far as I know.

    I will be much more curious to compare the 55mm to the Contax, and the 110mm to the Zeiss and HC Hasselblad 100mm lenses, and the F/FE and Rollei 110mm.
    You can be VERY sure that the Schneider lenses will be at least as good as their competitors!

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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Why, have you tried them? Not all Schneiders are as good as the best.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Why, have you tried them? Not all Schneiders are as good as the best.
    The one's I owned were stellar!

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    Re: Tease of the year?

    I was on a workshop a long time ago and a participant shooting with a view camera exclaimed, "I don't know why I can never get my focus just right!" Another student replied, "Are you sure your lens is good?" The first replied, "It has to be, it's a Schneider!"

    At the end of the day his lens was a bad copy, Schneider or not. I have seen Leica lenses that were not good. I own some OUTSTANDING Mamiya lenses and I have seen Mamiya lenses that were maybe only useful as a paperweight. Some of the best LF lenses I ever owned were Schneiders, and some of the Schneider LF lenses I tested while building that kit were absolutely terrible.

    Bottom line is ALL lenses will show some degree of manufacturing variability unit to unit, and so you need to test each one individually before you claim you have a good one or a bad one, regardless of brand and regardless if it was bought new or used. In fact, I actually PREFER purchasing a USED lens from someone I know who claims it is a good copy.

    Cheers,
    Jack
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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Not only that, but not all the Schneider designs are that great in the first place. The newest digital ones are meant to be very good though, and I don't know if there are any duds in their current lineup.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    You can be VERY sure that the Schneider lenses will be at least as good as their competitors!
    however the Schneider seems not as fast as one of its competitors (the Zeiss 110/2.0)

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    Re: Tease of the year?

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Not only that, but not all the Schneider designs are that great in the first place. The newest digital ones are meant to be very good though, and I don't know if there are any duds in their current lineup.
    I have the 35XL digitar and it's really sharp but then given that it's widest aperture is F5.6 it sort of should be. However, it has rather more field distortion that I would expect. Apparently it's about a good as it gets for the focal length on MF but I expected it to be a little better. I'm fussy though, as we all know!

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