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Thread: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Lightbulb F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Okay guys, this MF systems are really driving me nuts!!

    I started been pushed towards the H3D II systems by my buddies which wanted me to also have the same camera, then I made my decision to go with Phase, also do to the fact that every one I was dealing with pending deals to buy one decided to retract their sale after Hassy upgrade announcement, and actually pretty much will be closing a deal tomorrow, with one of three great deals offered to me by the Phase guys, but now just after having played with a visitor's Leaf Aptus II 6 I was amazed at the UI of the DB, the speed, and beautiful screen size, images on the 30" cinema display were simply stunning right off the camera (sorry can'r post any, they were not my images).

    So now more confused then ever!!

    What is worst is that while Hasselblad guys and Phase guys were truly amazing on how good they were in providing answers and directions, favoring a bit the Phase guys, as simply they literally overwhelmed me with assistance till they found me not one but three P1 systems, proving to have an incredible service and determination to make their prospected clients happy and make them their clients, so really CUDOS to Phase One guys for that.

    So much so that now I fill even a bit guilty in asking questions for assistance from the Leaf guys, but I just loved the way those images look, as well as the interface of the DB, the larger screen, wireless Tethered etc. but the Photographer really had no time to talk to me, as He was three hours late in to the shoot, and literally shot, give the cards to his assistant, and left.


    I know only that some fear the recent take over from Phase to be a ??? point to were they will be left with their Leaf systems, but I hope to get some serious well informed ray of answers and advises on the Leaf system, as I failed miserably to get any info any were on the net and from Leaf directly, as their list of so called Specialist have either changed their info or knew little to nothing about it that I didn't already know by reading Leaf's brochures.


    So now is it going to be the P30+ or the Leaf Aptus II 6-


    Thanks in advance for your participation in this discussion thread, and please Phase guys don't hate me for wanting more info before making this jump.
    Last edited by KETCH ROSSI; 11th October 2009 at 09:42.

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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSI View Post
    So now is it going to be the P30+ or the Leaf Aptus II 6-
    simply ask Steve about the Aptus... they sell Phase and Leaf
    Or the user "yaya" on this board who is the person that knows not less than everything about Leaf backs.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Agree with Thomas your absolute two best sources is Yair ( yaya) and Steve Hendrix at CI.

    You did not fall very far from the tree thinking Leaf. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Yeah Steve steered me towards P1 and He did find me one of those three deals I'm talking about, and a great one too.

    Not sure if I did or didn't PM Yair.

    Edit: now I did
    Last edited by KETCH ROSSI; 11th October 2009 at 10:27.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    One nice thing about Leaf is it will be usable with C1 here real soon with Version 5 coming out. I really like Capture One for processing
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Yeah it is definitely going to be C1 for me no matter the DB system I get, already have LR2 on sale here .

    Btw, Guy if you can share more info about C1-5 it would be great, and I'm on a MAC running SL.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Well it's beta right now but this part has come out on the streets

    It will be available on October 28th (hopefully)

    - All present Leaf cameras will be compatible but no word on older ones. (my guess would be yes though)
    - Live Preview is back
    - Focus tool is improved with multiple focus points and small focus window and can float.
    - Focus Mask tool , works like exposure warning but highlights areas that have sharpness in each thumbnail
    - Metadata now has unlimited customizable entries
    - Dust eraser in raws
    - Uniform Light tool replaces LCC's and is applied. Also fixes up to 4 stops of falloff!
    - Indivdual RBG channel mods is back
    - Vignetting on crops
    - strong Watermark tool
    - Simplified and corrected Importer from CF cards with activity monitor (yes, you guys will be happy with this)
    - Customizable tabs. You can eliminate all the tabs if you want to or add new ones.
    - Local "apply all" on each tool
    - improved noise reduction
    - Session tab pull down menu added

    It's certainly nicer than Version 4.8.3 and it does support Leaf. Any more than that they may shoot me. LOL

    Improved is a under statement and yes it runs on a Mac with SL which is what I have also.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Great Guy!!

    Yeah if I was to go with the Leaf it would not be nothing below or older then the Leaf Aptus II 6 to then move to the 10.

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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    I'm a Leaf guy, not sure what kind of information you're looking for?

    I went through the same thing exactly a year ago and ended up buying into Leaf. I wasn't considering Hasselblad but between Phase and Leaf preferred the skin tones and tonal qualities of the Leaf files over Phase's. Software was another issue, while there are quite a few people enamored with C1, I didn't like it and found the Leaf software easier to use but ultimately it was the Leaf files that won me over.

    I'm not worried about servicing, Mac group still support Leaf and will continue to do so, they're selling rebadged Leaf backs as Mamiya so I don't see them closing down their repair dept., and Phase will support the newer Leaf backs so we're covered for now.

    Let me know if you need other information, I might be able to help.

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Thanks David,

    while I only observed files which were sent to me from a P1 P30+, impressive no doubt, but I too was literally blown away by how Leaf manages to deliver the files with a some how different tones and a quality of DR that I had not seen before, skin tones for me are the most important aspect of my back as I shoot mainly People, well actually I should say Females .

    I sure liked the larger screen and was just not explained much of nothing of how the Leaf DB works vs. the P30+, as far as thethering and how the wireless works, sync speeds, long exposure time duration and how such shooting modes are handled by the sensor, etc.

    I must say that the difference in Image size vs. the P30+ concerns me a bit but not too much as we are only talking 3MP difference, but it is extremely important how Leaf handles retouching and enlarging for extremely large prints.

    So any info you can share is greatly appreciated David.

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    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Just PM'ed you Ketch

    rgds

    yair

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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSI View Post
    Great Guy!!

    Yeah if I was to go with the Leaf it would not be nothing below or older then the Leaf Aptus II 6 to then move to the 10.
    Both supported
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Good Guy!

    Edit: Btw, Guy, any knowledge of what upgrade path would be given to those that get the C1 4 Pro now?

    Thanks Yair.

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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSI View Post
    Good Guy!any knowledge of what upgrade path would be given to those that get the C1 4 Pro now?
    Pro comes with 1 free upgrade AFAIK ("upgrade" is referring to a major upgrade. Incremental updates within the same version - 4.5, 4.6, 4.7 ... - are free). You can run C1 in "DB" mode. It's the same as Pro but doesn't support DSLRs. So if you need the DSLR support you should use the DB version for the next 2 or 3 weeks and then buy V5 pro... so you'll safe 1 upgrade.

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Cool, thanks Thomas.

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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSI View Post
    Thanks David,

    while I only observed files which were sent to me from a P1 P30+, impressive no doubt, but I too was literally blown away by how Leaf manages to deliver the files with a some how different tones and a quality of DR that I had not seen before, skin tones for me are the most important aspect of my back as I shoot mainly People, well actually I should say Females .
    My entire portfolio is only nudes, both male and female, so skin tones are extremely important to me; even if you don't see it in my pbase galleries. I shoot a lot of couples and need the skin tones to have depth and look natural. Leaf trumped Phase in that department for me. The canned profiles in Leaf Capture are excellent and I think that they were originally designed by Kodak which always had the best skin tones out of all digital cameras. But even in PS I get fantastic skin tones with my Leaf backs; I have 3!

    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSI View Post
    I sure liked the larger screen and was just not explained much of nothing of how the Leaf DB works vs. the P30+, as far as thethering and how the wireless works, sync speeds, long exposure time duration and how such shooting modes are handled by the sensor, etc.
    The larger screen is nice but it doesn't make a huge difference in actual use compared to the Phase back. I never tried the wireless option so no comment but tethering is very straight forward as is with the Phase. Sync speed depends on your camera and lenses for both backs. Long exposure for Leaf is 30 seconds and longer for Phase.

    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSI View Post
    I must say that the difference in Image size vs. the P30+ concerns me a bit but not too much as we are only talking 3MP difference, but it is extremely important how Leaf handles retouching and enlarging for extremely large prints.
    Extremely well, both backs create very thick files the can easily handle a lot of processing and enlarging. The big difference here is the great tones and imo superior tonal range and depth of Leaf files straight out of the camera compared to the Phase; otherwise one can get used to the software and ergonomics of either company.

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    thanks David, truly appreciate the comments, I tell you, I'm surely leaning towards the Leaf..oops!!

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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    I might be wrong, but isn't the Leaf A-II-6 Dalsa sensor ? This could explain the differences quite fast.

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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Buy my DL-28 kit!

    I love it but am not using it. Less than 500 shots! With Capture One, this is going to ROCK!

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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Have you rented a system and tried it out on a shoot to see if the system "fits" you? While getting advice and opinions from everyone is very helpful and appreciated, in the end you are the one who is going to be making a living from your decision. It can be a VERY expensive mistake!

    See if any of the dealers that you are talking to will let you rent the setup and if you buy it from them, credit you the rental against purchase price. This way you can get the feel of the equipment and make an educated choice on how the equipment fits your workflow. Trying out the camera in the store is one thing, putting it through your studio workflow is another. I like to use the suit analogy, just because everyone says buy an Armani because it fits them so perfectly, when you put it on and do not look good in it then you have wasted your money.

    After you try the systems and form your opinion on how the software interface works, how the images look to your eye for the type of lighting and setups that you do. Then ask about the individual brand's reliability etc of the group. In my opinion is the logical way to go.

    Good luck
    Al Tanabe my website https://www.altanabe.com

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    I might be wrong, but isn't the Leaf A-II-6 Dalsa sensor ? This could explain the differences quite fast.
    Yes Christopher, it is, read more.. Leaf 22&33 byDALSA

    Quote Originally Posted by jdbfreeheel View Post
    Buy my DL-28 kit!

    I love it but am not using it. Less than 500 shots! With Capture One, this is going to ROCK!
    I did looked to get yours, but then I decided to go P1 and offered your system to my friend, and PMed you or emailed you to send me al the info, so please do so, and you might possibly have it sold, if you guys agree on the price, as I already have two offers for one other DL28 and one DL33 system.

    I'm looking to an upgrade path for both the Camera and the DB so it is important for me that the system I buy has the warrantee and time of purchase to fall in the right timing, but my friend will never upgrade, He will be likely to keep this system for the rest of his life


    Quote Originally Posted by atanabe View Post
    Have you rented a system and tried it out on a shoot to see if the system "fits" you? While getting advice and opinions from everyone is very helpful and appreciated, in the end you are the one who is going to be making a living from your decision. It can be a VERY expensive mistake!

    See if any of the dealers that you are talking to will let you rent the setup and if you buy it from them, credit you the rental against purchase price. This way you can get the feel of the equipment and make an educated choice on how the equipment fits your workflow. Trying out the camera in the store is one thing, putting it through your studio workflow is another. I like to use the suit analogy, just because everyone says buy an Armani because it fits them so perfectly, when you put it on and do not look good in it then you have wasted your money.

    After you try the systems and form your opinion on how the software interface works, how the images look to your eye for the type of lighting and setups that you do. Then ask about the individual brand's reliability etc of the group. In my opinion is the logical way to go.

    Good luck
    Yeah I already did try the system out, for about three hours as the photographer was three ours late to the shoot

    I like it and for this I have started this thread, I already knew the Mamiya AF system so no changes there, well actually many changes three editions later but all for the better.

    Problem is I just can't find in off info on my own, and for this I also started this thread, but now a tone of info has come my way, and tomorrow I'll be making my final decision in which system to invest on, and I thank every one again for their participation in this thread.

    Will be talking to few dealers tomorrow and finalize one system or the other, as I need a camera system for the weekend!
    Last edited by KETCH ROSSI; 11th October 2009 at 21:54.

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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Ok so I'm not surprised at all. Certainly one reason for switching from the P45 to the P65 was the fact, that I preferred the Dalsa sensor. Even though I still sometimes which Phase would have skipped this stupid pixel binning and focused more on longer exposure times.

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    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSI View Post
    Yeah Steve steered me towards P1 and He did find me one of those three deals I'm talking about, and a great one too.

    Not sure if I did or didn't PM Yair.

    Edit: now I did

    Just for clarity, Leaf products did not come up between Ketch and myself, only a discussion comparing Phase One and Hasselblad, since Ketch had initially considered Hasselblad. But at of the time of our conversation Ketch had turned in the direction of Phase One.

    For the work that Ketch shoots, all of these products offer benefits. Certainly Leaf would be a consideration as well. It is true that Mac Group is continuing with Leaf service, and Phase One USA has hired Rick Adshead, so they will also be in great shape to provide quality support for Leaf products.


    Steve Hendrix
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Digital Cam: Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Sinar Authorized Reseller
    TechCam: Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar Authorized Reseller

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Correct Steve, we didn't talked about Leaf at that time, it was the Hassy or Phase the , now is the Phase or Leaf, well actually is Phase or Phase or so it seems, s Phase is getting larger and larger, Mamiya, Shneider, Leaf, Dalsa, and ....

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Okay, after all I have made my final decision and just closed a deal with Steve from Capture Integration, and got the P30+ system, great deal, and absolutely fantastic service by Steve and the guys at Integration, highly recommend them to any one in a purchase mood

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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSI View Post
    Okay, after all I have made my final decision and just closed a deal with Steve from Capture Integration, and got the P30+ system
    so and why the P30+ over the Aptus II 6?

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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    so and why the P30+ over the Aptus II 6?
    Well.. I have been reading like crazy about both systems, and listen to the various Leaf and Phase One guys, apart from various dealers, and I felt that the info provided on the Phase One backs, was far better informing, and the current Leaf situation did not play a positive impact in my decision either, but beside little differences in favor of one or the other, Screen size, Speed, Software, high ISO, long exposure, noise resistance, both long exposure and High ISO, and so on, I considered them all, but I must say that beside current availability of systems, and need for a system in the next few days, I mostly considered the upgrade path for both camera and DB.

    Service provided by Steve of capture Integration, and their capacity to find and match my desired Budget had the final decision making, and for this I went with the P30+ and Phase One 645 AF system and will upgrading to the Phase One DF as soon as it comes available and later upgrade to the P65+.

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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSI View Post
    ...
    okay, thanks. At least it's definitely not a mistake to go for the P30+. Very popular back.
    Congratulations!

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    okay, thanks. At least it's definitely not a mistake to go for the P30+. Very popular back.
    Congratulations!
    Thanks Thomas!

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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Ketch
    just to add to the confusion
    apparently there is also a H4D-40 coming soon, I'm assuming it's the same chip as the P40+
    just had to through it out there.
    Also I agree with Thomas The P30+ and the H3D2-31 are my most favorite backs/camera's to rent.
    am

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Don't worry Am, no more confusion.. I already got my P30+ today from Capture Integration thanks to Steve and the guys of Phase

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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSI View Post
    I already got my P30+ today
    the luminous thing on the rear is the LCD... just in case that you might ask what it is

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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    I think "luminous" is an exaggeration
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    I think "luminous" is an exaggeration

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    I'm so glad you guys are so willingly to help out..

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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSI View Post
    I'm so glad you guys are so willingly to help out..
    I use Phase DBs as well... wasn't intended as joke at your expense ;-)

  37. #37
    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Yeah.. Im sure it wasn't Thomas.. din't worry I can take it just fine

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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    My Sinar screen is no better. I think only the Leaf is larger, and only the Leica is bright enough for outside (supposedly, since in this forum, I think only David Farkas has tried it outside so far).
    Carsten - Website

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    The Phase Plus backs works okay in sunlight at least for me it does. Again internet myth
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    My Sinar screen is no better. I think only the Leaf is larger, and only the Leica is bright enough for outside (supposedly, since in this forum, I think only David Farkas has tried it outside so far).

    thought you might like the know the H3DII screens are pretty darn good outdoors and zoom in pretty fast too. (though I know you don't like Hassy grin.)
    I used Leaf in the past and the screen is big but useless outdoors and magnifying a spot on the screen takes forever.
    never used a sinar or phase.

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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    I don't dislike Hasselblad cameras (other than the colour; oh no, he said it again!). See the other thread for details.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    My Sinar screen is no better. I think only the Leaf is larger, and only the Leica is bright enough for outside (supposedly, since in this forum, I think only David Farkas has tried it outside so far).
    actually they are all okay outside... they just don't display a very usfull image. The plus is contrastier than the non plus... the black (backlight) of the non plus is not really black so it looks softer. Too, as the non plus has less resolution. The plus LCD is good enough to tell the focus plane if you shoot at wide apertures (so you can roughly tell sharp from soft). On the non plus even this is impossible. With wide DOF both displays are not approriate to judge if the image is really sharp at all (you can't tell softness due to shake for example).
    Well, I don't care a lot, I can live with both the LCDs though a kind of focus control on the LCD shooting untethered with the view camera would be fine as focussing on the groundglass is hard sometimes.
    As to the LCD of the S2 Michael states on LuLa in his S2 first impressions article:
    The camera's large LCD is good, but not great. Apparently it was specified a couple of years ago and was state-of-the-art then.
    So I wouldn't expect very much from the S2 display.

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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    I'm satisfied with the Phase LCD outdoors, but of course there is room for improvement. I'd not want to sacrifice battery life for it though.

    I think it also depends on one's expectations of the LCDs though. I read of people complaining that clients can't see the screen during a shoot, etc., but I think that's absurd. It's a tiny control panel for the photographer, not a projection screen for presentation.

    My number one concern is histogram (and highlight clipping) so mostly satisfied; and I sometimes confirm focus on the LCD. I'm not so trusting of the LCD for focus check (that's where I'd appreciate a little improvement), so if it's likely to be a problem I usually cover myself with extra frames. Overall though, I prefer to take photos rather than stare at the LCD anyway.

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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    How in HELL can someone be satisfied or think it is OK for outdoor use ? I mean yes you can see the image in a form or another, you can even check focus, but to check the exposure it is hard. Without switching between highlight clipping and the histogram it is impossible. That is just sad for such expensive backs. I mean compared to my 5DMkII it hurts every time to go back to that ****ty Phase LCD. I'm not even starting to talk about the new High End LCDs on a d3x. It will be interesting if phase actually re designs their next generation or if they risk to ship the same old LCD from, well it feels like 2000. My Canon 10D LCD was far better.

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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    ...
    As to the LCD of the S2 Michael states on LuLa in his S2 first impressions article: The camera's large LCD is good, but not great. Apparently it was specified a couple of years ago and was state-of-the-art then.
    So I wouldn't expect very much from the S2 display.
    Michael was way too kind to Leica when he said that - 2 years ago the high-end LCDs like those sported by the Nikon D3 series were already out and about, let alone specified (D3, announced in August 2007). The S2's LCD, while hopefully good enough, has never been state-of-the-art, not even in the planning stage... shame, for such an high-end product (and for that price). However, if you are into that kind of things, or if you plan to bring the S2 into heavy fights or that kind of action, you can get the sapphire cover for your LCD. The price? You could buy a good DSLR and a lens or two for the same amount of cash, but hey, what are you going to do...
    Vieri Bottazzini
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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    How in HELL can someone be satisfied or think it is OK for outdoor use ?
    well, if you can't that's your problem. As you can't use it seriously for anything else than the histogram or a rough idea about the composition anyway ... it is okay to see the Histogram. Simple as that. Actually you knew it before or at the latest in the moment you bought the back. If you need the display for anything else than the histogram and changing settings than it's clearly the wrong purchase for you. Use it like a film back with "metering" incorporated; that's all.
    Actually I often smile about the LCD, especially the non plus. Indeed it's somehow fun to work with this dinosaur. That's also okay

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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    How in HELL can someone be satisfied or think it is OK for outdoor use ? I mean yes you can see the image in a form or another, you can even check focus, but to check the exposure it is hard. Without switching between highlight clipping and the histogram it is impossible. That is just sad for such expensive backs. I mean compared to my 5DMkII it hurts every time to go back to that ****ty Phase LCD. I'm not even starting to talk about the new High End LCDs on a d3x. It will be interesting if phase actually re designs their next generation or if they risk to ship the same old LCD from, well it feels like 2000. My Canon 10D LCD was far better.
    No matter how good the LCD of a camera/back it's ALWAYS better to learn to read a histogram than to try to judge based on the brightness of the LCD.

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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    No matter how good the LCD of a camera/back it's ALWAYS better to learn to read a histogram than to try to judge based on the brightness of the LCD.
    especially as the Phase backs display the image tagged with the default color space and the film curve "linear response".

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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    I have used just about every kind of LCD, LED, Monitors, literally of every brand and up to 20k in value, outdoors, they are all the same, you need a shade, and I always use one, so as I do in my Film sets, I do in my Photography sets, accessorizing my gear is a must, and so I will do the same with the LCD of the P30+

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    Re: F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

    here is a tip i picked up, any comments?

    apparently the histogram readings are taken from the image on the LCD, not directly from the raw data. If you bump up the contrast for better outdoor viewing, you will also change the histogram, effectively underexposing your actual raw file

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