An S2 strategy: your thoughts?

[fotografz]

The scenario: As I slide down the slippery slope toward retirement (forced early by the greedy thieves on wall street and the banking industry ... and admittedly, my reluctance at my age to shlep back out into the dog-eat-dog, back stabbing advertising world for new employment), I've been reformulating my gear strategy to continue work exclusively as a pro photographer until they plant me.

The Problem: I have been very interested in the Leica S2 but balked at the specter of losing the abilities of my modular MF system ... as well as the S2 price ... "price" especially being a kill-joy when considering it as replacement for the Hassey H system which I would have to take a scalding bath on financially to sell.

Possible solution: Stop thinking of the S2 as a replacement for the MFD system ... instead replace the extensive 35mm DSLR stuff which cost a fortune to continuously upgrade ... and which may be close to maxed out in terms of "how many pixels can sit on the head of a pen".

Frankly, I really only need a three lens kit to do 95% of my paying work... wide, normal and telephoto. I don't need leaf shutter lenses on this kit if I kept the Hassey kit. Don't need macro or T/S either since the Hassey also already does that. With a bigger sensor and 37 meg there would be zero need to upgrade even if something like 30+ meg in 35mm did come along.

(I'd probably keep a few select 35mm pieces as back up and leave it at that).

One issue: how in the heck can I make this decision without having a real taste of how the S2 actually works? Can it function in the conditions I shoot in? How fast is it really? What is the 400 and 800 ISO really like?

Any other maker can get one of their products into a pro's hands for evaluation ... Like Hassey did, like Leaf did ... but as far as I can see the S2 has to be purchased like a "pig in a poke", or I'd have to travel somewhere to even lay hands on one. :banghead:

Whatdaysthink?

-Marc

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

It makes sense, and this is exactly the way I look upon the S2: An über DSLR with little or no need for upgrade for quite a number of years, at least if the system keeps its promises. What you do need to think about is:

- You need to try it. You need to feel the ergonomics, to see what the photos look like with the camera in your hands etc., but you know all this. If you buy without trying, and although Leica keeps its value well, it may be an expensive bath.

- You have to ask yourself how much you will use the Hasselblad if you buy the Leica. From a quality point of view, they are probably similar, and if that means the Hassy will remain unused, you lose money even if you don't sell it.

- Are you really sure that you won't be tempted by new cameras and lenses in the future? So much so that you can't withstand the pressure? I'm sure there won't be any need for an upgrade in a long while, but there's also this thing called lust.

But again: It makes sense to me. If I could afford to think that way, this is exactly what I would do.

 

[KeithL]

Whatdaysthink?

Marc, if I was in your situation - already having more than adequate and more than enough equipment to see me through until retirement - I would do nothing.

I'd then use the small fortune I had saved to tour the world at leisure and make all those images I'd been meaning to make for the last 40+ years.

Keith

 

[vieri]

Marc, if I was in your situation - already having more than adequate and more than enough equipment to see me through until retirement - I would do nothing.

I'd then use the small fortune I had saved to tour the world at leisure and make all those images I'd been meaning to make for the last 40+ years.

Keith

I second that - plus, IMHO the S2 path will make you lose a lot of flexibility, together with a lot of money. I posted on the forum here my path to digital MF & LF, I link to it not to take up too much HD space re-writing the same thing, but I thought it might be of some help.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

 

[docmoore]

Marc,

As much as I hate dealing with the sorry excuse that the airlines have become and the "security" issues involved I still believe that travel is a rather cheap part of the whole investment.

Book a few days...see a couple of shows and spend two rigorous days evaluating the camera with Sam (?). Sneak into a couple of churches with poor light, have them waiting with Profoto or Hensel equipment to evaluate interfacing exposure and try some early morning light on the street. Then rerurn home with the files and crunch them everyway possible to see if they will hold up to real life use.

All of the above will be about 3% of the total investment for the S2 in the long run.

As time opens up for you ... personal time not spent capturing other persons moments of interest, I cannot imagine you spending it all with just a SLR compatible system. RF tilt/shift and lens/back movements will be sorely missed if you are out of the Hasselblad/MF back system...just because you know how valuable those would be in certain situations. In another 20 years a simple Leica M RF and the S2 will probably be enough...right now I doubt it.

Good news about the S2 is that it is partially vaporware with regards to lens and peripherals...you have a limited range of choices at the present time...so acquisition costs will not be maxed out until 'later'. You can start with what is available and move into the lenses as they arrive.

Final thought...the H2 system is fairly stable for a few years...H4D 60 will not be supplanted for a while. All of the 35 DSLR systems are undergoing major flux changes and will either keep you on the upgrade path or your present equipment will be overshadowed rather quickly. These days money spent is not money saved but the good news is that neither of us will need it 50 years down the road!

Cannot wait to see how this pans out...I always feel better living vicariously.

Regards,

Bob

 

[Ben Rubinstein]

You're going to keep your M9 though aren't you Marc?

I can see what others are saying, if you've got kit that works for any application you could forsee coming up in your work, if that kit is well broken in and paid for, why do anything, why ever upgrade again?

We hit the point of diminishing returns in equipment already years back. There really isn't that much more that it's worth upgrading for given our own personal and our clients requirements.

For example, why would you need that H4D-60 that you're drooling over at the moment? Would it bring more income after it had paid for itself compared to what you have? Is it going to provide you with that much better a shooting experience that it's worth it for your own peace of mind and sanity?

As a 35mm body, with those 3 primes that you need, is the S2 going to be a) easier b) that much better c) more versatile d) affordable e) bring in more revenue, etc, etc than your D3X or M9? If all you need is a simple 35mm camera with a 3 lens setup, why not just stick to either of the above and save far more money?

 

[carstenw]

Marc, in spite of continually being branded a fanboy w.r.t. Leica, I would strongly recommend waiting. Wait until the camera is out, wait until all the lenses you for sure want are out, wait until the lenses you might want are out, and then go try it out. Once you have tried it out, and you are in a buy/stay position, you can then evaluate if the IQ is worth the cost, or if the handleability or dual FP/LS shutter is worth it, and so on.

I am sure, being the fanboy and all, that the IQ will more than match the competition. However, I am equally sure that the difference will be in the range where most customers won't see the difference.

In the end, it might make sense to get an S2, if you could keep your Hasselblad back for technical camera duty, and sell all the rest of your MF and 35mm gear, but that is a tall order, and only you will be able to tell if it is able to do this, for your work.

 

[TRSmith]

I can't help but be envious of your dilemma. At the same time, congratulations on finding yourself in such an "uncomfortable" position.

My own opinion is that while the question is a good one, and the plan might make sense, I don't think it needs to be an urgent decision. You are well covered with some fine equipment already. Biding your time for another 6 months and watching the S2's performance from the sidelines seems entirely appropriate with only your "want it now" impulse gene being effected.

Beyond that, the only question I have is whether you are prepared to buy two S2 bodies along with the lenses. Quite an investment when all is said and done.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

The scenario: As I slide down the slippery slope toward retirement (forced early by the greedy thieves on wall street and the banking industry ... and admittedly, my reluctance at my age to shlep back out into the dog-eat-dog, back stabbing advertising world for new employment), I've been reformulating my gear strategy to continue work exclusively as a pro photographer until they plant me.

The Problem: I have been very interested in the Leica S2 but balked at the specter of losing the abilities of my modular MF system ... as well as the S2 price ... "price" especially being a kill-joy when considering it as replacement for the Hassey H system which I would have to take a scalding bath on financially to sell.

Possible solution: Stop thinking of the S2 as a replacement for the MFD system ... instead replace the extensive 35mm DSLR stuff which cost a fortune to continuously upgrade ... and which may be close to maxed out in terms of "how many pixels can sit on the head of a pen".

Frankly, I really only need a three lens kit to do 95% of my paying work... wide, normal and telephoto. I don't need leaf shutter lenses on this kit if I kept the Hassey kit. Don't need macro or T/S either since the Hassey also already does that. With a bigger sensor and 37 meg there would be zero need to upgrade even if something like 30+ meg in 35mm did come along.

(I'd probably keep a few select 35mm pieces as back up and leave it at that).

One issue: how in the heck can I make this decision without having a real taste of how the S2 actually works? Can it function in the conditions I shoot in? How fast is it really? What is the 400 and 800 ISO really like?

Any other maker can get one of their products into a pro's hands for evaluation ... Like Hassey did, like Leaf did ... but as far as I can see the S2 has to be purchased like a "pig in a poke", or I'd have to travel somewhere to even lay hands on one. :banghead:

Whatdaysthink?

-Marc

Time for my intervention. Your thinking is not even a thought until January so for now be happy and seriously do you really need to spend the money and lose your shirt in the process. You know I am sitting here not only in the same boat but we are sharing the chair no less. Marc Until it is fully out in all products and it gets in hands of REAL users of MF gear already and you are getting some good vibes than start thinking. Lets be really freaking honest here any 35mm shooter testing , trying or even looking at this will be a wet dream come true because it will kick all there butts . The real questions and comparable will be guys like us that shoot everyday with MF know all the ins and outs and know what to be looking for in the files and against what they have today. This is Pro to Pro talk it ain't worth squat until it is blowing our doors off. Also lets say it is better than the P40/ H50 question comes in how much better and at what costs does it start making sense and is it real or is it something our commercial clients won't even notice. Yes i get the appeal of 35mm handling trust me I'm wetting over it too but I'm also looking at a minimum of 25k out of MY pocket. Now bud it's not always about the money and we both know that but given our age and what has been going on in the market , less work, less paying work that is there and sinking banking accounts than we both have stupid thoughts. Yea i know i would like it just as bad myself. But when Leica gets one in my hands which they said they would do for sure to test it out just like i have with the DMR, M8, M9 and now this than we will have a better idea along with some other reports but this needs to get in the hands of people that count. Sure the hobbyist with money will support it and that's great for Leica. But their are so many after purchase stuff that WE have to think about and if you get past the initial purchase what becomes important is stuff like Backup, repair, accessories and the one NO ONE is even thinking about is long term sales in the S2. I say this simply because their are a lot of R users scratching there heads right now.

Now i am not being down on Leica far from it. I love there products and good friends with management and they even support our workshops . That stuff is not even a thought but long term investment, service, repair and all the parts that go into it are just unknown right now and for a Pro that part many questions arise. Yes Leica had some issues but in the end they always seemed to come through but now we are certainly on a different time table for working Pro's stuff can't sit in a repair shop collecting dust and they do know this no doubt and I have talked to themas well on some of these things. What Leica has done is basically go from a hobbyist market ( although many Pros shoot the M) to the levels of Hassy and Phase along with Sinar and leaf to support a working Pro camera and needs. Now there is no real track record here and we know Leica will always try to do the right thing for us. The issue is this is the first real Pro system and none of us has a crystal ball either. Also to be truthful i am so turned off by sales pitches that it is the next coming of Christ. Like any MF system they will sell themselves to the needs of the working Pro we know what is out there and what to look for. Obviously we know what Hassy is and what it can and can't do as well as Phase that we can make good decisions on it.

Obviously this is not a cheap investment and the time waiting for answers and time spent in the real field of play is very important to us. Let's just look at current systems and there history and time table to get to this point today . Obviously it was not overnight and to me as much as I want this system I have to wait it out and i told Leica exactly this is to be patient because most Pro's are going to wait until it is a real system on the streets and not on paper but more important it needs to work and have the long term support to go with it. Too me personally it is 6 months from now or around 1st quarter next year. First I don't have the money because of this economy and if it don't pick up to the levels my clients are calling me as much as they did in the past that I am sitting on my buy hands. Obviously we are seriously already getting it done today and what does this really bring us at the end of the day. Okay some joy for sure and some better handling which maybe one big reason we are even looking at it. Honestly it's to early for me to get serious but certainly on my radar and i won't know until I can test it and see it's value not only to me but my business as well.

Now i hope that was not a kill joy but it is reality and i am excited about this as much as you but I have my check marks it needs to hit before I get serious about it and no product brochure , banner waving signs or claims the best thing since the coming of Christ will convince any Pro. Honestly that stuff to me is more a turn off than anything else and have a real hard time digesting it.

 

[fotografz]

Lots of good sound advice so far. Remember, this is just an exploratory thread seeking different perspectives.

Let me clarify a few things.

I am retiring from my advertising career, NOT my photographic career which I'll do until I can't.

If I got an S2 (eventually), it would NOT be a replacement for the H system which is way more versatile for studio work. That H kit is pretty complete including a Rollei Xact 2 and lenses for all tech needs. The whole thing is also bought and paid for. Done. I would NOT upgrade to a 60 meg H4D if I got the S2 ($$$:wtf:$$$) ... at least not until it is discounted because it's been super-ceded by the H5D/100

The S2 would replace all the Nikon and some Sony 35mm DSLR stuff except a few key pieces. I'd probably keep a select Sony kit for the Zeiss optics ... that kit is done and paid for. Much as I love it, I'd probably sell the Nikon system entirely. Which is WHY I'd need to try the S2 before buying .... to make sure it CAN replace this stuff the way I use it.

No back up S2 needed ... the Sony is what I would use as back-up to the S2 for the location applications I'd use the S2 for ... or for more demanding commercial jobs use the S2 to back up the H3D-II39.

Ben, I understand exactly what you are saying, however, once you use a medium format digital camera it's hard to be satisfied by anything 35mm ... except maybe the M9 ... fan boy alert! The Leica M kit is here to stay now that it's FF. I only have one or two other lenses I'm considering, but even those are not essential at all. For all intents and purposes that kit is bought and paid for ... and now done.

Guy, as usual great cautionary input. Here's the rub IMO ... service, and the extraordinary $ premium Leica has put on in-depth after-sale service. We both know how essential this is to working stiffs ... especially with all the previous recent history, turmoil and possible future unknowns. It actually makes me wonder about their confidence in the S2 product. It would have been way smarter to include a 3 year Pro service package with the camera ... at least for the first year to get the camera off the ground.

BTW, all this would be funded by sales of my Hasselblad V gear and CFV-II which I've already begun doing. Add the Nikon stuff and I'm there with little or no additional funding. Life wouldn't alter a bit.

I know this is high flautin' subject matter here, and I feel very lucky that I could build such an extensive array of gear over the years ... but as a pal once said to justify it all ... it's what we do ... photography ... for a living, for creative outlet, and for personal fun. I don't have a home in the Canary Islands, a penthouse in NYC, or a beach house in Malibu. I no longer spend money on Porches and triple strands of Mikimoto pearls for even faster women. :ROTFL:

Keep the thoughts coming ... it doesn't cost any of us a penny to speculate, and at the very least it's entertaining on a slow, gloomy day :thumbs:

-Marc

 

[robsteve]

The scenario: One issue: how in the heck can I make this decision without having a real taste of how the S2 actually works? Can it function in the conditions I shoot in? How fast is it really? What is the 400 and 800 ISO really like?

Any other maker can get one of their products into a pro's hands for evaluation ... Like Hassey did, like Leaf did ... but as far as I can see the S2 has to be purchased like a "pig in a poke", or I'd have to travel somewhere to even lay hands on one. :banghead:

Whatdaysthink?

-Marc

Marc:

You buy enough Leica gear to just ask your dealer to have the Leica Rep bring him a S2 to loan you for a few days. This may not be possible in the really early days that the camera is shipping, as the Rep may have only one demo and would need that to show his dealers. Once it is out for a few months you should be able to borrow one.


Robert

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Leica dealers have to have hope I got this right 1 on the shelf and 1 demo at least that is what I remember what Leica told me. I think that is the minimum

 

[fotografz]

Marc:

You buy enough Leica gear to just ask your dealer to have the Leica Rep bring him a S2 to loan you for a few days. This may not be possible in the really early days that the camera is shipping, as the Rep may have only one demo and would need that to show his dealers. Once it is out for a few months you should be able to borrow one.


Robert

Yeah, we are going to try that ... but I'm not holding my breath. I got to test the 0.95 Nocti only because my dealer ordered it for his inventory ... he's the one that let me try it first before committing to a purchase. Not gonna happen with a S2 and a set of S2 lenses.

-Marc

 

[paulmoore]

Lots of good sound advice so far. Remember, this is just an exploratory thread seeking different perspectives.

Let me clarify a few things.

I am retiring from my advertising career, NOT my photographic career which I'll do until I can't.

If I got an S2 (eventually), it would NOT be a replacement for the H system which is way more versatile for studio work. That H kit is pretty complete including a Rollei Xact 2 and lenses for all tech needs. The whole thing is also bought and paid for. Done. I would NOT upgrade to a 60 meg H4D if I got the S2 ($$$:wtf:$$$) ... at least not until it is discounted because it's been super-ceded by the H5D/100

The S2 would replace all the Nikon and some Sony 35mm DSLR stuff except a few key pieces. I'd probably keep a select Sony kit for the Zeiss optics ... that kit is done and paid for. Much as I love it, I'd probably sell the Nikon system entirely. Which is WHY I'd need to try the S2 before buying .... to make sure it CAN replace this stuff the way I use it.

No back up S2 needed ... the Sony is what I would use as back-up to the S2 for the location applications I'd use the S2 for ... or for more demanding commercial jobs use the S2 to back up the H3D-II39.

Ben, I understand exactly what you are saying, however, once you use a medium format digital camera it's hard to be satisfied by anything 35mm ... except maybe the M9 ... fan boy alert! The Leica M kit is here to stay now that it's FF. I only have one or two other lenses I'm considering, but even those are not essential at all. For all intents and purposes that kit is bought and paid for ... and now done.

Guy, as usual great cautionary input. Here's the rub IMO ... service, and the extraordinary $ premium Leica has put on in-depth after-sale service. We both know how essential this is to working stiffs ... especially with all the previous recent history, turmoil and possible future unknowns. It actually makes me wonder about their confidence in the S2 product. It would have been way smarter to include a 3 year Pro service package with the camera ... at least for the first year to get the camera off the ground.

BTW, all this would be funded by sales of my Hasselblad V gear and CFV-II which I've already begun doing. Add the Nikon stuff and I'm there with little or no additional funding. Life wouldn't alter a bit.

I know this is high flautin' subject matter here, and I feel very lucky that I could build such an extensive array of gear over the years ... but as a pal once said to justify it all ... it's what we do ... photography ... for a living, for creative outlet, and for personal fun. I don't have a home in the Canary Islands, a penthouse in NYC, or a beach house in Malibu. I no longer spend money on Porches and triple strands of Mikimoto pearls for even faster women. :ROTFL:

Keep the thoughts coming ... it doesn't cost any of us a penny to speculate, and at the very least it's entertaining on a slow, gloomy day :thumbs:

-Marc

I think you will find that the h3d will doing the "backing-up" to the S2 for non studio/xact2 shoots. Personally I feel the S2 is a pleasure to hold, view through and shoot. I see 2 main cameras for me a studio camera, the xact2 and the S2..everything else is backup. I have already sold off my medium format slr stuff. You should go to the photo expo thing next week in nyc and see the S2 production model.

 

[cmb_]

Marc - the one thing you already know the S2 will most likely not do is deliver the high ISO like the Nikon does which is why you have the Nikon in addition to the Sony. With the M9, you have picked up a little ground here over the M8 so, as you pointed out, one question is where does the S2 max out for YOU in this regard and then can the M9 and Sony handle the rest? For the wedding work, the backup shooter will be there with the Canon but what happens if you are solo?

Another point. Given time there should be enough versatility in the S2 lens lineup but what we need to see is the character of the lenses and if there is some variety there if that is something you desire. There is in the M line. It's there in the R as well (character of the 35, 50, or 80 LUX vs the 35, 50 or 90 Cron, for example). So, what's the "look" of the S lenses and is that what you want for your work. As another fanboy I am already convinced without seeing but we all know we need to wait and see.

 

[atanabe]

Marc,
I would have to say that after handling the S2 and doing some shooting with a pre production sample at the LHSA meeting in Seattle that
1. The camera has a super quiet shutter and no mirror bounce, great for hand held shooting. The balance in the hand is better than the H3DII, less strain on the wrist. The size is about the same as a Nikon D3.
2. Autofocus, fast with low light and bright light.
3. After evaluating David Farkas's images (about 500 of them) that he shot in Weztlar on his computer, am blown away by the image quality. No moire could be seen on the fabric on the model, highlights look like highlights, not little diamonds on the skin - in other words looks like super sharp film images.
4. Price - well an H4D/50 with lens will go for ~$32,000? the S2 with platinum service about the same. Yes, it is a big chunk, and no legacy glass to buy and keep the costs down.
5. Think about this, "If I could build the best system . . . " From the start, the S2 was built without having to apologize to any legacy users. So the lens and sensors were designed as an optical unit. Yes, they got a lot of flack from R users but this was not the solution for the R. It would be like Nikon or Canon coming out with a whole new line in order to compete on this scale. A result of this is an optical chain that can out resolve the sensor with no moire on fine fabrics. David and I pixel peeped to death those images and could not see any moire on fabrics, chicken wire on a bell tower - believe me we spent hours going over them.
6. I am currently rethinking if I too should reduce my systems to just the S2 and X1 and moving away from the M8, Nikon and Hassey CFV. I mainly shoot with the 28 (35mm equiv.) on the M8 and do still life work with the CFV. The 70mm lens on the S2 focuses really close, covering a 4"x6" area at the nearest distance. They also have a macro 120 if you need 1:1 and knowing how Leica thinks, will be ubber corrected for close focus aberrations as opposed to the 70 but you need to be the judge on that.
7. Service is what it comes down to, Leica is setting up pro dealers to service the needs in case of failure and provide a loaner if needed. They are trying to do it right and only time will tell if they succeed.

Most of all you need to handle it, Photo East will be in NYC next week and they will be showing it there. Don't know if they will have any production samples for users to evaluate aside form the pre production ones out now.

-Al

 

[LJL]

Marc,
I would be one of the last folks to ever try to offer a strategy for you, but since you asked...... ;-) Right now....do nothing. You have all the gear you need to more than cover most shooting situations you may want to engage in. The S2 sounds sexy as hell on paper, and from what the few folks who have actually had it in hand for more than 30 seconds report. Great. It is not yet out. It is nowhere near being a complete enough system at this point, nor will it for several months or more to come. I holds tremendous potential, maybe even as the main camera, not back-up for the the Hassy. Until you know what you really plan to be shooting, trying to buy in advance is really hard to figure. I am struggling along similar lines myself. I do not think I want to keep shooting action/sports type of things, BUT....I enjoy it and keep having folks ask me to cover things for them, so I cannot abandon the teles and fast 35mm gear.....yet. I would love to be shooting more studio/product stuff, and could use a more tricked out MF kit for that, BUT.....not sure if that will have enough legs under it to keep me working as I shift toward it. I gave up weddings long, long ago, BUT....I keep getting asked to do them and sometimes it is hard to avoid the nicer pay. Bottom line, as long as you are an eclectic photographer, which many of us are, it is hard to have just one perfect collection of pieces to cover all needs, both subject and your own artistic demands.

Right now, your Hassy stuff has tons of bases covered in and out of studio. The M9 kit has many bases covered for fun/travel/art/quality shooting as well, but in its own limited way. A 35mm kit can better handle a wider variety of potential shooting situations, but maybe not delivering some things you really would like from your more artistic needs.....e.g., image file quality. Any and all of that could change. The point being that what you have now is paid for, does the job, is not going to be dated or obsolete for several more years to come. Why ditch or buy stuff now when there really is no firm direction known for your needs and wishes? You may just find that the Hassy stuff, though very capable to do almost everything, is just more than you will want to keep using for your personal directions. Same could be true for the 35mm stuff. You may find something like the S2 very capable, but maybe not flexible enough. Personally, I have even started to think how I might direct/align my business more around what I could get done with just an S2 kit. (I stopped that dreaming when the prices came out and since there is nothing to really convince me either way that the S2 walks above water yet, if you know what I mean.)

So, my thoughts are for you to just keep using what you have and are intimately familiar with, taking the time when possible to try some of the newer stuff when available, either as longer test drives or rentals for a bit. You have no pressing needs, other than self-generated at this point, so no harm in waiting to see how things come along and change in the next several months to a year. You may stop the heavier commercial shooting, and find that your wants and needs could be met with the M9 alone, or maybe the S2 system. Your studio shooting could become less attractive and you no longer need a big MF rig. You may decide that you really would rather do landscape/fine art shooting and then the Hassy kit may be the only thing that floats your boat. No need to decide the direction just yet.

LJ

 

[Jack]

Tough nugget that, trying to figure out the optimal, most efficient, best image quality, best usability combination kit of camera gear...

I am in the camp of not doing anything immediately. First off, you already have an entire spread of not only high-end gear, but frankly state of the art gear in every category; MF, DSLR, RF. All a change will do at this time is cost you money.

The single S2 efficiency gain I could see for you would be *IF* the S2 kit of choice (and we both know you'll NEVER be satisfied with just 3 lenses) could completely replace both your current DSLR and MF systems. However, even if it does -- which I seriously doubt it will -- you are trading dollars to end up exchanging a very versatile and somewhat extensive 2-system kit for a three to five lens minimalist kit. Then what do you do when/if it breaks? Oh that's right, with 4 or more lenses, you'll want that second S2 body too :bugeyes:

Nope, IMO logic dictates you wait and see how good it really is and how well it really suits your style and gear needs before making that kind of very costly switch.

Sorry, but my .02...

 

[fotografz]

Tough nugget that, trying to figure out the optimal, most efficient, best image quality, best usability combination kit of camera gear...

I am in the camp of not doing anything immediately. First off, you already have an entire spread of not only high-end gear, but frankly state of the art gear in every category; MF, DSLR, RF. All a change will do at this time is cost you money.

The single S2 efficiency gain I could see for you would be *IF* the S2 kit of choice (and we both know you'll NEVER be satisfied with just 3 lenses) could completely replace both your current DSLR and MF systems. However, even if it does -- which I seriously doubt it will -- you are trading dollars to end up exchanging a very versatile and somewhat extensive 2-system kit for a three to five lens minimalist kit. Then what do you do when/if it breaks? Oh that's right, with 4 or more lenses, you'll want that second S2 body too :bugeyes:

Nope, IMO logic dictates you wait and see how good it really is and how well it really suits your style and gear needs before making that kind of very costly switch.

Sorry, but my .02...

Nothing to be sorry about Jack ... I'm not doing anything right away anyway. Just selling off redundant and less used gear as the business climate has shifted for me so dramatically. It'll just sit in a "war chest" waiting until all the data is clear.

The main competitor to this strategy is to avail myself of the Hasselblad trade in program for the H4D/60 ... which is a LOT less money ... gear sales have pretty much covered that cost already, and is sitting in the bank waiting patiently for me to make up my mind

Thanks,

-Marc

 

[bradhusick]

I have to agree with Al after seeing David F's images in Seattle. We looked at hundreds of S2 images and some P65+ images shot under ideal circumstances and I have to say that I have never in my life seen better digital files than I saw from the S2. It was head and shoulders above the P65+ in detail and clarity. I felt as if I was looking at 4x5 drum scans. I can't stand up for Leica's pricing, or the pricing of any MF digital for that matter unless you can recover the cost in a few assignments, but if you need absolutely the best image quality for very large prints, I don't know of any better system at any price than the S2. Period.