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Leica delays S2 shipments until late December
- Thread starter bradhusick
- Start date
woodyspedden
New member
I agree with the "wait and see" mentality. People get really "juiced" about anything Leica and can become dragons.
We'll know soon just what the deal is as the camera ships, images are shared, and results known.
I do get a kick though out of the vitriol about Leica and late deliveries. First off, Leica is always late.........just seems to be the disconnect between marketing and engineering / manufacturing. They "hook" potential customers based on the product concept and then disappoint as missed deliveries become the norm.
On the other hand, Mamiya has been promising CS lenses for several years. I read on the forums that many folks either bought in to Mamiya as a result or have been waiting for them to happen. I don't see anything like the anger against Mamiya as a result compared to the reaction against Leica.
Just an observation!
Woody
We'll know soon just what the deal is as the camera ships, images are shared, and results known.
I do get a kick though out of the vitriol about Leica and late deliveries. First off, Leica is always late.........just seems to be the disconnect between marketing and engineering / manufacturing. They "hook" potential customers based on the product concept and then disappoint as missed deliveries become the norm.
On the other hand, Mamiya has been promising CS lenses for several years. I read on the forums that many folks either bought in to Mamiya as a result or have been waiting for them to happen. I don't see anything like the anger against Mamiya as a result compared to the reaction against Leica.
Just an observation!
Woody
Woody,
I agree with you about how "we should know better than to expect on-time delivery" with respect to Leica. That does seem to be a much more sensitive issue on many fronts. I for one have dealt with all the delays in the past with the M8, and it was not always the most fun. This S2 is supposed to be Leica striking into a new area with professional photographers, so some of us reset our reaction based on those promises. That in itself could be a problem ;-) Leica has been pretty good about finally delivering on what they say, but at their own pace, and deadlines or dates are many times slipped, and they do not seem nearly as bothered by that as many of the folks on the other side.
You are correct, almost all manufacturers are guilty of the same thing.....making promises or marketing pitches then not delivering as promised, usually with respect to delivery dates. The Mamiya LS lenses you mention are a perfect example. The live video viewing on the H3D-50 is another. The deliveries eventually come in some form, and folks tend to forget their annoyances....most of the time. With Leica, there do seem to be heightened expectations and responses....on both sides. Some of that may have to do with cost, some with mythical imaginations, etc. (I can feel the flames coming on that one, so please chill before burning he keyboards folks.) Leica is saying and promising a lot at this point with respect to the S2. They may deliver a superb tool. We have yet to see. Their marketing pitches and the ensuing comparisons and discussions have been raving since it was announced, and now some folks really want them to "put up" in order to get the "shut up" from any detractors. Leica has made some outstanding stuff over the years. They have also made a lot of folks unhappy in some areas. They just seem to bring out deeper passions on both sides of the aisle.
Personally, I have a mixed experience with Leica, a lot of good, but some more recent less pleasant impressions. Maybe my patience with them is a bit worn thin at this point...not sure. However, there is a lot riding on the line in my personal decisions over gear. I do not want to spend and maybe lose in that process, so having some stuff to start comparing against some other stuff is becoming more important in that process. I am glad that we are finally going to start seeing some S2 images that can be more closely scrutinized to help in that process. The price differential between the S2 and some other potential choices is not trivial for many folks that not just casual users or collectors, so some of us want to see if the S2 is as much as it is cracked up to be for the cost. If it is, then it may be a wonderful direction to go. If not so much, then it will be equally good to move it off the list and consider other options to fulfill needs. Simple as that. Trying to do it without too much bias or passion either way.
LJ
I agree with you about how "we should know better than to expect on-time delivery" with respect to Leica. That does seem to be a much more sensitive issue on many fronts. I for one have dealt with all the delays in the past with the M8, and it was not always the most fun. This S2 is supposed to be Leica striking into a new area with professional photographers, so some of us reset our reaction based on those promises. That in itself could be a problem ;-) Leica has been pretty good about finally delivering on what they say, but at their own pace, and deadlines or dates are many times slipped, and they do not seem nearly as bothered by that as many of the folks on the other side.
You are correct, almost all manufacturers are guilty of the same thing.....making promises or marketing pitches then not delivering as promised, usually with respect to delivery dates. The Mamiya LS lenses you mention are a perfect example. The live video viewing on the H3D-50 is another. The deliveries eventually come in some form, and folks tend to forget their annoyances....most of the time. With Leica, there do seem to be heightened expectations and responses....on both sides. Some of that may have to do with cost, some with mythical imaginations, etc. (I can feel the flames coming on that one, so please chill before burning he keyboards folks.) Leica is saying and promising a lot at this point with respect to the S2. They may deliver a superb tool. We have yet to see. Their marketing pitches and the ensuing comparisons and discussions have been raving since it was announced, and now some folks really want them to "put up" in order to get the "shut up" from any detractors. Leica has made some outstanding stuff over the years. They have also made a lot of folks unhappy in some areas. They just seem to bring out deeper passions on both sides of the aisle.
Personally, I have a mixed experience with Leica, a lot of good, but some more recent less pleasant impressions. Maybe my patience with them is a bit worn thin at this point...not sure. However, there is a lot riding on the line in my personal decisions over gear. I do not want to spend and maybe lose in that process, so having some stuff to start comparing against some other stuff is becoming more important in that process. I am glad that we are finally going to start seeing some S2 images that can be more closely scrutinized to help in that process. The price differential between the S2 and some other potential choices is not trivial for many folks that not just casual users or collectors, so some of us want to see if the S2 is as much as it is cracked up to be for the cost. If it is, then it may be a wonderful direction to go. If not so much, then it will be equally good to move it off the list and consider other options to fulfill needs. Simple as that. Trying to do it without too much bias or passion either way.
LJ
I have a whole list of people who feel tricked by Phase/Mamiya, are pretty pissed off and already contacted their lawyers.
ptomsu
Workshop Member
Woody,
I agree on most what you say. I think that the new CCDs in the S2 and in the P40+, P65+, H50, H60 which have 6 micron technology are definitely a step forward from the older CCDs - this is a natural evolution.
But you are for sure aware how fast this evolution happens in that computer, sensor area, so I am pretty sure that Phase are already working on their next generation back design with Dalsa and Kodak and their next CCD (or maybe even already CMOS) generations. Will these be same 6 micron or 5.5 or what else I cannot tell. Do you need more pixels? Definitely YES, as long as IQ stays as good as today or can even be improved.
I also have a number of comparisons between H39 and P40+ and P65+ and I can say that even in large size prints (I had opening of my gallery yesterday and you could see all these different images on large scale prints under gallery conditions), it is hard to tell any real difference. If so then mainly in terms of dynamic range etc. But this is important for post processing, so what you actually get with more pixels and better specifications is more flexibility in post processing. Now this is what counts for me, maybe not for many others, as they want to get a "final" image out of the camera, but for me this is important.
Now coming back to S2 and their sensor - of course this is still a great tool, but issue is that it is so typical for Leica to delay shipment of their products till they finally come to market and there are already the next generations of backs and sensors out there in available products - I just want to mention DMR. And I won't forget this product, which burned lots of my energy, patience and money and actually would have been better never to buy in, but buy any available digital MF system at this time.
So I just see that the S2 is locking itself by these delays in general. And be honest - when do you expect a S3? Not before 2012 maybe, so you have to be able to survive with the S2 the next 3 years then, if this is ok, then it can be the perfect tool.
On the other hand if it comes to the "special" files, I do not really think they are so much better or more special than Hassi or Phase files, at least if I take what I can compare from the M8 and I assume that the S2 files will be similar to that except 4 times the resolution, then any P40+ or P65+ image has the same or better IQ (leaving pixel count out of the comparison).
Never the less the S2 will be a sexy and amazing camera and I honestly am still considering to buy into that system, especially if we get C1 support. But if I judge all that business wise, then I must say "Never buy into it" - at least for me.
Wait and see - nothing new with Leica anyway
