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Thread: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

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    FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Oh yeah! There are none :>))

    Check back in December


    Mark

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Actually there are many, just NDA forbids from posting most of them if not all of them

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    NDA? And why is that? They're so good that it would be unfair to Phase and Hassy? They keep promising cameras and files. So the cameras are delayed for some reason or other. Why are the files delayed? I recently saw an online interview with a Hasselblad exec saying they'd changed the terms of an upgrade offer (or something) because of customer complaints. Does Leica do that?

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    I imagine that you are kidding on the NDA question but for those that might not know, NDA stands for "NONE DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT" generally executed during any proceedings to test and or develop any type of product for which secrecy is a need and must.

    But they are several images floating around, just not RAW files.

    My main reason for liking the S2 is its shape as I have been using such bodies for the past twenty or so years, and the lenses off course, the rest remains to be seen.

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSI View Post
    My main reason for liking the S2 is its shape .
    Then you certainly won't be disappointed :>))


    BTW, I see you have a P30+ for sale over at LumLand.
    Hopefully, you haven't changed your mind in anticipation of the S2 ?

    FYI, I got to use an S2 a couple of weeks ago but agreed not to share
    images as the body/lens was preprod.

    I can say, though, that the camera, ergonomically, was the best 'feeling'
    medium format camera I've ever owned/used maybe with the exception
    of the Mamiya 7 but that is sort of in a different class.

    S2 files were excellent but, objectively, no better, no worse than
    anything I have from equivalent Phase,Leaf,or Hasselblad backs from the
    last 5 years.

    Mark

    www.marktomalty.com

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    I was only half kidding. I know what an NDA is, and I understand that people limited by one can't publish embargoed information. My serious question is why does Leica insist that files from its S2 camera be secret? They claim the camera is essentially finished, that production changes require another delay. Surely they aren't making changes to the camera or its firmware? That's not what they're saying in their most recent delay explanation.

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    (snip) My serious question is why does Leica insist that files from its S2 camera be secret? (snip)
    Most likely for the very same reason the camera has been delayed, i.e. probably still some unsolved problems, would be my best guess
    And personally I think it is a very wise move to postpone the production until the camera is ready.
    We have seen that many times before with other brands as well. It's nothing unusual and nothing to be ashamed of. In my opinion.

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    My serious question is why does Leica insist that files from its S2 camera be secret?
    Well, it might be Steen's reason (more work to be done - and I quite agree with him if that's the case). But they were very happy for preprod files from the M9 to be published . . . just not until the camera was shipping, so it would be entirely consistent for them to say the same this time.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    I guess once the S2 ships we will see what gets published. Given the focused, often negative nature of the web and forums, I can understand why they don't want anything published. The slightest negative thing in an image is likely to blow out of all proportion. Once the camera comes out, the continuous stream of images will prevent that sort of occurrence.

    So, where are the test photos from the new Phase/Schneider lenses?
    Carsten - Website

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Quote Originally Posted by mtomalty View Post
    Then you certainly won't be disappointed :>))


    BTW, I see you have a P30+ for sale over at LumLand.
    Hopefully, you haven't changed your mind in anticipation of the S2 ?

    FYI, I got to use an S2 a couple of weeks ago but agreed not to share
    images as the body/lens was preprod.

    I can say, though, that the camera, ergonomically, was the best 'feeling'
    medium format camera I've ever owned/used maybe with the exception
    of the Mamiya 7 but that is sort of in a different class.

    S2 files were excellent but, objectively, no better, no worse than
    anything I have from equivalent Phase,Leaf,or Hasselblad backs from the
    last 5 years.

    Mark

    www.marktomalty.com
    Yes Mark definitely the fill of the S2 (with the Grip on) fills AMAZINGLY WELL in your hands, I'm a little guy, but have very Big hands, so I really like Big Grips on Cameras, and the Canon 1D series fit well in my hands, but the S2 is in a class of its on as far as ergonomics.

    The Leica Lenses are the second strongest reason to like this system.

    The reason for having posted the newly acquired P30+ system was do to my Partner's, I have currently retracted that sale and hope to get things right and be able to keep it, if not will be back on sale tomorrow


    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    I was only half kidding. I know what an NDA is, and I understand that people limited by one can't publish embargoed information. My serious question is why does Leica insist that files from its S2 camera be secret? They claim the camera is essentially finished, that production changes require another delay. Surely they aren't making changes to the camera or its firmware? That's not what they're saying in their most recent delay explanation.

    Yes I imagined you were

    The S2 is still by all means a Prototype, and an unfinished one by that, and the reason for their delay on delivery is by far cause of the high number of orders, but because they are still finishing up, at list this is my personal opinion, not a fact btw, want to make sure you guys know that

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    [QUOTE=carstenw;147129] The slightest negative thing in an image is likely to blow out of all proportion.[QUOTE]

    Certainly this would be one consideration but with the number of
    prototypes and Leica allied testers of the S2 in circulation surely there
    must be a handful of RAWs Leica could be willing to release to
    satisfy those curious and/or considering the system.

    These files could hardly do any more damage than adamantly declaring
    the product shipping in the summer of 2009,then the autumn, and now
    the winter. No?

    So, where are the test photos from the new Phase/Schneider lenses?
    They've been announced but not delayed yet.


    Mark

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    The issue I see is, that Leica claims since the announcement of the S System the S2 IQ would be superior to anything else.

    They are still not able to show any images in RAW (DNG) - not even images which are taken under perfect conditions, lightning etc.

    I argue that these images must be available and the simply are not shown, because the IQ is not better or even equal to Hassi 39 or 50 backs or Phase 45, 40 or 65 Plus backs.

    Shame on Leica! At least they should be careful when announcing things how to do wording and phrasing. And also on their rare customer / press events

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Quote Originally Posted by mtomalty View Post
    They've been announced but not delayed yet.
    ? I was asking for photos, not lenses. There is a lot of demand in this forum/thread for photos from the S2, and some talk of Leica not being able to deliver on time, and some sales therefore going to Phase and the new LS lenses. However, the new Phase lenses are not ready either, and no photos are being released, other than the 80mm. Are there two separate standards at work here? Why is no one demanding test photos from the new Phase lenses? When are the lenses coming? Before the Leica S2?
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    (snip) Shame on Leica! (snip)
    How about delaying the verdict as well ...

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    I heard that today the press will get free access to a production model here in ny, some samples of the S2 then will be here shortly.. but some will say until it is their hands or available at the local camera shop it is still a ghost.

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Really Peter
    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    The issue I see is, that Leica claims since the announcement of the S System the S2 IQ would be superior to anything else.

    They are still not able to show any images in RAW (DNG) - not even images which are taken under perfect conditions, lightning etc.
    How do YOU know they are 'not able to' couldn't it possibly be that they 'don't choose to'. Just like there were no released images from the M9 until the day it was shipping.
    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I argue that these images must be available and the simply are not shown, because the IQ is not better or even equal to Hassi 39 or 50 backs or Phase 45, 40 or 65 Plus backs.
    Do you know this?
    Or are you simply guessing?
    David has plenty of images which he will show you personally, but which he can't publicise YET . . . he is an honest guy, and he isn't a fool, so he wouldn't be saying they were good, if they weren't.
    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Shame on Leica! At least they should be careful when announcing things how to do wording and phrasing. And also on their rare customer / press events
    Surely they should be allowed to organise their launch the way they see fit. If the IQ isn't good enough, then we will know soon enough.

    As Bondo says - perhaps you should delay your verdict until you've seen the files.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Sheesh. All this is just so much speculation. Isn't anyone else besides me encouraged by the surprise of the M9 and its apparently smooth and tasty implementation? I find that to be very reassuring and helps me believe Leica knows what they're doing. Maybe I'm simply smitten by Blind Faith (an outstanding band!).

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Quote Originally Posted by TRSmith View Post
    Sheesh. All this is just so much speculation. Isn't anyone else besides me encouraged by the surprise of the M9 and its apparently smooth and tasty implementation? I find that to be very reassuring and helps me believe Leica knows what they're doing. Maybe I'm simply smitten by Blind Faith (an outstanding band!).
    I'm afraid that I Had to Cry today about Leica's late delivery, and now I Can't Find My Way Home. . . . Well Alright, in the Presence of the Lord the new S2 is likely to put us all into a Sea of Joy. . . . .

    Oh yes, and I quite agree with you on all counts

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I'm afraid that I Had to Cry today about Leica's late delivery, and now I Can't Find My Way Home. . . . Well Alright, in the Presence of the Lord the new S2 is likely to put us all into a Sea of Joy. . . . .

    Oh yes, and I quite agree with you on all counts
    Ha! A fan I see. I'll continue to believe that the S2 will NOT be Born Under A Bad Sign!

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    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Quote Originally Posted by TRSmith View Post
    Maybe I'm simply smitten by Blind Faith (an outstanding band!).
    Agreed, outstanding, but not the Cream of the crop.


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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Quote Originally Posted by TRSmith View Post
    Ha! A fan I see. I'll continue to believe that the S2 will NOT be Born Under A Bad Sign!
    Mixing your Musicians is never a good idea

    Incidentally, at the risk of dissipating the gloomy nature of this thread, have you heard the Madison Square Gardens concerts (Winwood and Clapton?

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Nay, I've not heard them. Or at least I don't recognize them.

    p.s. Don't worry about dissipating the gloom, that stuff is pretty sturdy.

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Quote Originally Posted by TRSmith View Post
    Nay, I've not heard them. Or at least I don't recognize them.
    Well, if you like Blind Faith: Madison Square Garden concerts
    Quote Originally Posted by TRSmith View Post
    p.s. Don't worry about dissipating the gloom, that stuff is pretty sturdy.
    I'm afraid you're right. Unfortunately, there only seems to be two options:

    1. be very gloomy
    2. be a leica apologist

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    I'm downloading the album from iTunes now. Thanks for the tip!

    See? Good things can happen from the most unlikely sources sometimes!

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Hey! you guys are messing up the pom-pom shows and jersey beating. The next thing you know we'll be seeing some photography in here. Just quit it. Quit it right now I say.

    Last edited by Dale Allyn; 21st October 2009 at 07:37.

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Allyn View Post
    Hey! you guys are messing up the pom-pom shows and jersey beating. The next thing you know we'll be seeing some photography in here. Just quit it. Quit it right now I say.

    Oops. Sorry. We now return you to your regularly scheduled program. I'm going to play a little air guitar along with Eric (a remarkably similar activity to the original nature of the thread!).

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    No, don't return us to the original program. The flying pom-poms were making me woozy.

    Enjoy your Clapton.

  28. #28
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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Funny to me how few people in here actually talk about the "content" of the photo. Image content trumps tech specs every single time.

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    [QUOTE=mtomalty;147177][QUOTE=carstenw;147129] The slightest negative thing in an image is likely to blow out of all proportion.

    Certainly this would be one consideration but with the number of
    prototypes and Leica allied testers of the S2 in circulation surely there
    must be a handful of RAWs Leica could be willing to release to
    satisfy those curious and/or considering the system.

    These files could hardly do any more damage than adamantly declaring
    the product shipping in the summer of 2009,then the autumn, and now
    the winter. No?



    They've been announced but not delayed yet.


    Mark
    I was fortunate to see about 50 images taken with a prototype S2 and the 70 and 180 lenses. These were shot in Germany during a period when Sean Reid, Michael Reichmann, David Farkas and Phil Askey were invited to shoot with both a M9 and the S2.

    The files I saw were in all cases uniformly good and in several shots just amazing. I was particularly impressed with a shot of a model, head and shoulders, and I blew it up to 200% to see some reflections in her eye. Sure enough there was a focused image of the photographer, kneeling on the ground. I could not believe the quality of the file even at 200%. Not to say that other MF backs like the P65+ couldn't do the same thing. However the resolution of the S2 is wonderful in my opinion and makes one believe that the lenses of this new machine may be as good as advertised. For that we will obviously have to wait and see.

    I know I am pretty fired up about this camera even if it is out of my price range. Wish I was rich! LOL

    Woody

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Hmmm, lots of smoke and mirrors, speculation, vaporware, and a camera made of that rare and costly material ... unobtainium.

    IMO, Leica should have zipped it until the S2 was ready to spring forth, full grown from Thor's loins ... like the M9.

    Confusing the S2 with the M9 is a dangerous line of logic IMO. One is a second generation digital camera with a 50 year historical pedigree ... the other isn't.

    Woody, I can take a Sony file up 200% and see myself taking the shot in the eye ball. With a 60 meg full 645 sensor I'd expect to read the name on the camera in the reflection.

    Most all of these cameras are already beyond belief in IQ, the only real differentiator now is content ... per Mr. Walen's comment ... and actually using them.

    Best of luck to Leica is my thought. Hope it all is a roaring success for them.

    -Marc

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Best of luck to Leica is my thought. Hope it all is a roaring success for them.

    -Marc
    I second that emotion

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Leica fanboys here

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Leica fanboys here
    Peter
    I find that extremely offensive
    It doesn't sound like a joke
    it doesn't look like a joke
    it doesn't smell like a joke

    Nobody is calling you names.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Yes, I agree with Jono and Carsten.

    No offense Peter Tomsu, but the whole photoforum community interested in the S2, by now get the (your) picture, and knows where you stand...

    And yes, I'm a fanboy too

    On a side note, I'm happy to read David Farkas announcements.
    1 His review should be up soon.
    2 People can bring their cards to the Photoplus event.

    This means we should be able to actually finally get to see/judge/discuss some images very, very soon.

    Regards, Peter

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Has it gotten unpleasant enough yet?

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Having a camera and lens system(s) which make you feel like using it(them) - and using preciously rare leaisure hours - is an important consideration for me.

    In other words a lot of the utility in a camera or lens or software or printer or anything associated with photography is about how easy is it for me to get a result I like in a manner which is enjoyable and fun.

    I think a lot of naive people or perhaps people lacking the mature sensitivity to appreciate the total utility of a particular device in the broad sense of the word underestimate the importance of beautiful things.
    These same sorts of peopel and mindsets dont understnad the importance of custom fitted golf clubs, the right weight and handle thickness and length in a cricket bat, the health benefits of having a cobbler make your own fitted shoes from your own last, your own tailored shirts and suits etc etc et

    It seems that the great majority of people have become McDonaldified over teh last coupel of decades - prepared to accept any prepackaged plastic crapola that ticks a marketing survey box anbout what features and benefits a focus study group desires and what price this focus study group is prepared to pay.

    All fine for mass market engineered and manufactureed to a price stuff.

    Me I want the things taht appeal to my senses to be beautiful, to fit well, to have a lovely fragrance or taste or sound.

    One either 'gets this' ot one doesn't- it isnt about beeing a fan boy/girl - it is about liking what you use.

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    I think a lot of naive people or perhaps people lacking the mature sensitivity to appreciate the total utility of a particular device in the broad sense of the word underestimate the importance of beautiful things.

    These same sorts of peopel and mindsets dont understnad the importance of custom fitted golf clubs, the right weight and handle thickness and length in a cricket bat, the health benefits of having a cobbler make your own fitted shoes from your own last, your own tailored shirts and suits etc etc et
    LOL! The finest pair of John Lobbs or Vass in which the craftsman has no doubt bled over all while stitching the welt and costing $2,000 does not even come close to approaching the machine made $30,000 digital back that no matter how many roses it photographs will never have a soul.

    I want well made, but they are going to have to figure out another way to make a tool for a professional trade, not a trinket for a collector.

    P.S.
    I wear Allen Edmonds because they get the job done at sensible prices.

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Shoes have soles.

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Shoes have soles.
    Yes!

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Peter
    I find that extremely offensive
    It doesn't sound like a joke
    it doesn't look like a joke
    it doesn't smell like a joke

    Nobody is calling you names.
    Jono,

    this is only your problem if you are outing yourself here

    Stay calm, the S2 is not worth such silly fights

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Quote Originally Posted by peterv View Post
    Yes, I agree with Jono and Carsten.

    No offense Peter Tomsu, but the whole photoforum community interested in the S2, by now get the (your) picture, and knows where you stand...

    And yes, I'm a fanboy too

    On a side note, I'm happy to read David Farkas announcements.
    1 His review should be up soon.
    2 People can bring their cards to the Photoplus event.

    This means we should be able to actually finally get to see/judge/discuss some images very, very soon.

    Regards, Peter
    Well,

    if you are happy with that then I am perfectly fine!

    I stopped long ago reading reviews of things which are not really available.

    BTW - these discussions in this thread are pretty close to the level of LUF.

    So I stop that now!

    Good Luck

  42. #42
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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Quote Originally Posted by pcunite View Post
    LOL! The finest pair of John Lobbs or Vass in which the craftsman has no doubt bled over all while stitching the welt and costing $2,000 does not even come close to approaching the machine made $30,000 digital back that no matter how many roses it photographs will never have a soul.
    Which machine-made back would that be? They are all hand-assembled. I think even the 1Ds Mark III and D3x are made in special plants by workers trained more carefully. I think you misunderstand your world.


    I want well made, but they are going to have to figure out another way to make a tool for a professional trade, not a trinket for a collector.
    And the insults start again. Just because something is beautiful doesn't mean it isn't as good as something ugly. Or better.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I stopped long ago reading reviews of things which are not really available.
    Why do you still comment on them then?
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Jono,

    this is only your problem if you are outing yourself here

    Stay calm, the S2 is not worth such silly fights
    Peter
    If you put your reply immediately below someone else's post, what are they supposed to think?
    If you didn't mean to insult me, then you are suggesting that a general insult is somehow better?


    Just this guy you know

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Peter
    If you put your reply immediately below someone else's post, what are they supposed to think?
    If you didn't mean to insult me, then you are suggesting that a general insult is somehow better?

    Jono,

    I am very sorry, this is not the conversation and level I want to deal with.

    As I am obviously not a problem child as you are who wants to fight and so I will stop this conversation with you.

    Anyway good luck for all your future and projects.

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Why do you still comment on them then?
    Carsten,

    why do you feel to be on this level

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Jono,

    I am very sorry, this is not the conversation and level I want to deal with.
    As I am obviously not a problem child as you are who wants to fight
    Then you shouldn't have brought it to this level, after all, it wasn't me who started throwing around insults. . . and it isn't me who is continuing to do so.
    Last edited by jonoslack; 22nd October 2009 at 04:42.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post


    Thanks Jono, that has made my day.

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post


    Thanks Jono, that has made my day.
    Good . . . Here is another (not so relevant, but I liked it



    and now I'll waste the rest of your day:

    XKCD




    Just this guy you know

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    Re: FUN WITH LEICA S2 IMAGES

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Carsten,

    why do you feel to be on this level
    I usually try to speak to people on their chosen level.

    Anyway, the conclusion to be made from your comment was that you don't read the reviews for unreleased products. That naturally leaves me to wonder on the basis of what knowledge you make your comments, because you still do comment... I think that is a fair question.
    Last edited by carstenw; 22nd October 2009 at 05:48.
    Carsten - Website

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