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Thread: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

  1. #201
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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    I think there are two main "sins" Leica have committed here:
    1 - Announced the product a year too early
    2 - Priced themselves out of the game they want to play.
    +1

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Is it that Leica has announced the product a year too early, or really that they are fielding this camera system a year or more too late??

    LJ

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    What is interesting is the dichotomy between the approaches used by the two management teams re: the release of the M9 and S2. The M9's development and release was, in all fairness, brilliantly managed. Very Apple-esque and VERY effective. The S2's ... (IMHO) an utter bollocks.

    As others have stated, announced WAY too early, priced in the stratosphere in the midst of a MFDB price war, etc., etc. All it did was create a buzz - and then paint a large target on the product's forehead as the months go by with repeated (odd) delays and an utter (inexplicable) vacuum of RAW DNG files for folks to shake & bake (and thus keep their interest alive).

  4. #204
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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    What is interesting is the dichotomy between the approaches used by the two management teams re: the release of the M9 and S2. The M9's development and release was, in all fairness, brilliantly managed. Very Apple-esque and VERY effective. The S2's ... (IMHO) an utter bollocks.

    As others have stated, announced WAY too early, priced in the stratosphere in the midst of a MFDB price war, etc., etc. All it did was create a buzz - and then paint a large target on the product's forehead as the months go by with repeated (odd) delays and an utter (inexplicable) vacuum of RAW DNG files for folks to shake & bake (and thus keep their interest alive).
    For those that remember the S2 release follows almost the exact same pattern as the DMR. Announce, delay, no word, delay, no word, release - beautiful images but out-of-date pixel count and poor firmware support. By the time they got it all put together they discontinued it without a word of warning. Then did the same thing with the R10.

    Now I shoot Hasselblad.

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by gdwhalen View Post
    For those that remember the S2 release follows almost the exact same pattern as the DMR. Announce, delay, no word, delay, no word, release - beautiful images but out-of-date pixel count and poor firmware support. By the time they got it all put together they discontinued it without a word of warning. Then did the same thing with the R10.

    Now I shoot Hasselblad.

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by gdwhalen View Post
    For those that remember the S2 release follows almost the exact same pattern as the DMR. Announce, delay, no word, delay, no word, release - beautiful images but out-of-date pixel count and poor firmware support. By the time they got it all put together they discontinued it without a word of warning. Then did the same thing with the R10.

    Now I shoot Hasselblad.
    I could not agree more :-))

  7. #207
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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Well, maybe you could decide on two I have M and MF and it works well for me. Sometimes I feel that I could use fast AF or 5 fps, but when I look at what I get with my two systems, there isn't anything missing. There are only CCDs and no AA filters in my collection
    yeah,
    I could live with 2 but rather live with 3 plus
    The problem is that I am afraid that after some time I would be tempted again to get a dslr and selling + buying in again later just wastes a lot of money.
    Still - if I would loose my job I could "exist" with "just" an M8 or M9 and 2-3 lenses.

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by gdwhalen View Post
    For those that remember the S2 release follows almost the exact same pattern as the DMR. Announce, delay, no word, delay, no word, release - beautiful images but out-of-date pixel count and poor firmware support. By the time they got it all put together they discontinued it without a word of warning. Then did the same thing with the R10.

    Now I shoot Hasselblad.
    I agree the DMR came late but I also believe that it was underrated for long time.
    Many agree that - besides pure resolution numbers - it is still one of the best sensors.
    So yes, the S2 is delayed and (too) exoensive (for me) but I still exoect it to be an excellent image taking tool.

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    I'm the patient type.
    If I know there's something good to wait for, I can wait for it.
    I like early announcements. And I love roadmaps.
    Early announcements and roadmaps enable me to make decisions based on informations.
    Last edited by Steen; 10th November 2009 at 00:33.

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Well road maps are nice, IF they a true. In the case of Leica they are not. (What a surprise ^^) The same goes for every other company, I don't need to know about a product which COULD be out in a year and than get's delayed another 6 months. Sorry no need for that, just a waste of time.

    When it comes to the DMR, I think people wouldn't hold it that high up, if it hadn't a RED dot, sorry, but it never really shined for me. Is it capable to produce great images ? Yes, can the same be done with a Canon or Nikon, yes. In the it just is another 35mm camera, nothing more.

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    The S2 is part of a new system in a new market for Leica. The Leica M9 had a predecessor, but the S2 is completely new, that's why they decided to present it within prototype-stage - that's quite common in the professional cine-market (where cameras have to be much more reliable and are also much more expensive).

    The DMR was developed and made by Imacon - no further support, no upgrades, not manufactured anymore - quite different from the S2 (which is the first self-developed digital-camera from Leica since the S1).

    When they can really deliver the camera in decemeber, those two months delay are quickly forgotten.

    But they should give some real updates, they had "nullserie"-cameras since may (I think about 50!) but weren't taking them to presentations (instead they were using the leftover prototypes from Photokina) and they don't show us DNGs or even large JPGs - that's typical Leica...

    And what happened to David Farkas review? He tested it in September, wanted to release it and waited for some technical answers from Solms (?) but then the camera was postponed and we heard nothing anymore!

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by georgl View Post
    And what happened to David Farkas review? He tested it in September, wanted to release it and waited for some technical answers from Solms (?) but then the camera was postponed and we heard nothing anymore!
    Conspiracy theory, anyone?

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by georgl View Post

    And what happened to David Farkas review? He tested it in September, wanted to release it and waited for some technical answers from Solms (?) but then the camera was postponed and we heard nothing anymore!
    Should be up later today..... thanks for asking. I was waiting on a few things from Leica, which I got resolution on during PhotoPlus two weeks ago. Been working on getting everything together since then, amidst work and toddler duties.

    David
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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by dfarkas View Post
    Should be up later today..... thanks for asking. I was waiting on a few things from Leica, which I got resolution on during PhotoPlus two weeks ago. Been working on getting everything together since then, amidst work and toddler duties.

    David
    David,

    no problem, you are anyway still much faster than Leica as history proves

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    David nice review. I will not say anything about image quality, I think it would be a waste of time. It looks nice, but nothing special. I think one has to actually use it to get a better feeling. What I really hope is that we see some higher ISO images soon. I know you couldn't do that at the time, but now it should be possible. At least Leica claims the camera is finished ^^

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Thanks David you gave a great review on how it felt to use the camera. thats what I am hoping to be the clincher for me - ergonomics. I'd be happy with the quality if it matched current MFD backs between 33 and 40 megapixels. If the total workflow and ease of use combined with sealing geat bright viewfinder ( surprised you think the H viewfinder isnt bright - if the S2 is better ..well thats a big factor for me) its got size,shooting speed,ergonomics and iQ as good as similar sized MF chips - with what you say is the best glass Leica have ever made? wow big big call..

    Geez I would love to see some wide angle shots..thats the clincher for me - it has everything I would ever want in a DSLR sized body with a big fast chip..

    this camera is so undorklike ( I mean c'mon ther eis nothing sexy about holding a H or any other MF body ..they all look so ..ordinary and ugly - it is going to be a winner with the cool dude check this out crowd -

    Thanks
    Pete

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Great review David, it is really nice to read at length about this very interesting camera. I am impressed by almost everything about it so far.

    I am not totally keen on all aspects of the menu system. One small item, for example, is the image review navigation. I understand that with no dedicated up/down/left/right controls, mapping the four soft buttons to navigation will be a challenge, but I think that rather than using the top-left button to flip between horizontal and vertical navigation, it might be nicer to have two separate buttons, perhaps top-left for up/down and bottom-left for left/right navigation. It would be a tad less obscure, and more positive, and could function in either press-hold-scroll or press-lock-scroll mode.

    I would also like to see some more high ISO modes, as well as longer exposures, as you suggested in the review. At the moment this seems like a weakness in the specs.

    FWIW, I do believe that one of your shots shows moiré. Look at this shot, in the bottom right area, along the receding wall of the building, just below and to the left of the woman sitting on her bacony, wondering what you are doing, and there are some slats of some kind. The first few have a blue tinge, and slightly further on they have a red tinge. It isn't much, but it is there. If you agree that it is indeed moiré, perhaps Leica would appreciate seeing the DNG to analyze.

    http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/.../424700123.jpg

    N.B. There is a small typo; search for "with go blank".
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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    this camera is so undorklike ( I mean c'mon ther eis nothing sexy about holding a H or any other MF body ..they all look so ..ordinary and ugly - it is going to be a winner with the cool dude check this out crowd -
    While not as elegant as the S2, I think that both the Contax and the Hy6 are quite attractive cameras...
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    David,

    read your review and I must say THANKS A LOT!!!

    If the S System really performs as you found (and I do not doubt this) it should be really worth to wait a few months and get into it instead of jumping on that "old" MFDB train.

    Especially I like your comparison shots in the begin of your review with H3D and Phase cameras - they really do look ugly

    Looking forward to get a S2 in my hands end of this year or begin of next year to get some feeling myself.

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    David: thank you for contributing to the world of knowledge and opinion on the S2.

    Capture Integration will be testing real-world results of the S2 with a full production model versus Canon/Phase/Hasselblad in early December in Miami, Florida.

    This includes an open house on December 3rd at our Miami location. Anyone who can make it to our location will be given (to the extent possible) the chance to do their own testing to contribute to the community.

    For those who can't make it to the office for that open house we strongly encourage requests for specific tests by email ([email protected]), though with the understanding that we won't be able to do every test.

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    I guess the outstanding tests are: DR, high ISO and moiré.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Thanks for the review David, I found it very informative.

    BJP reports many copies of the camera will be available next month.
    http://www.bjp-online.com/public/sho...ml?page=870832

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    I think the S2's lack of dorkiness is a mixed blessing: how will its cool owners be able to photograph it with an ordinary, dorky camera? The really cool kids will have to buy two, one to use, and another to photograph just how special the first one is.

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    I guess the outstanding tests are: DR, high ISO and moiré.
    and processing. I honestly don't like what I see in the examples.
    Still no raw files

    But - extensive review; a lot of work. So many thanks for sharing!
    Last edited by thomas; 11th November 2009 at 07:20.

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    thomas, I am curious what it is that you don't like in the samples?

    There are some downloadable DNGs somewhere. I have 4, all of the same model (blond, blue-green sweater). Look around.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    I think the S2's lack of dorkiness is a mixed blessing: how will its cool owners be able to photograph it with an ordinary, dorky camera? The really cool kids will have to buy two, one to use, and another to photograph just how special the first one is.
    Yeah, I guess right now that leaves me hopelessly relegated to dorkdom instead of where I thought I was in cooldom...
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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    and processing. I honestly don't like what I see in the examples.
    Still no raw files

    But - extensive review; a lot of work. So many thanks for sharing!
    Agreed, more review is needed; the good news it will be forthcoming! I need to see how the file responds color and tonality wise once in the raw converter. Any 6 micron sensor behind good glass is going to deliver detail, but color and tonal gradations (and to a lesser degree, dynamic range) are another story and that still remains to be seen.

    One great thing about this camera is for folks who never seriously shot MF before because the MF bodies were too big or clumsy (or dorky), a whole new world has possibly opened up for them!

    Cheers,
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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    When Jack and i have our shot at this there will be plenty of raw files and REAL world tests against other backs and standing on it's own. Don't worry folks we know what to do and how to run these kinds of test. Davids is very nice but leaves us a little short on some of the output versus other systems and hard core pixel peeping. His review is more support on how the system and functions work which did a great job. Pixel and file level will be forthcoming from us for sure.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    thomas, I am curious what it is that you don't like in the samples?
    actually we should sit side by side in front of the monitor to really explain it. There is an artificial look. Most of it possibly just due to the sharpening; many files are not sharp, only sharpened. Maybe it's just the wrong radius for the sharpening. I don't know, really hard to tell and hard to describe. Too, the scenes are all quite contrasty, so again hard to tell. Colors have no "style" or "look"... all looks somehow ordinary.
    But that's just an impression. I still don't want to judge the camera or the files. Not without shooting the camera and processing files by myself or at least without having well exposed, shake free RAW files.

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Am looking forward to shooting the S2 very soon and comparing it to my Sinar e75LV back. Jack and Guy are way better at this stuff than I am but I'll post the results for whatever they're worth.

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    I still don't want to judge the camera or the files. Not without shooting the camera and processing files by myself or at least without having well exposed, shake free RAW files.
    Exactly.

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    thomas, I think I don't know what you mean with "not sharp but sharpened" but I guess we will see more when the release date comes closer and more raws become available.

    As far as the colour go, I am pretty sure that this is intentional, like Sinar also delivers a neutral file. Would you want it to be more biased for skin, like the Leafs are apparently, or something else? I would have thought that a neutral file would be the best starting point, unless you always want a specific look.

    Where in Germany are you, by the way?
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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    thomas, I think I don't know what you mean with "not sharp but sharpened"
    many captures are not really sharp (pixel wise). But you clearly see that sharpening is applied.
    Again: maybe just "wrong" adjustments.

    I would have thought that a neutral file would be the best starting point, unless you always want a specific look.
    depends on what you call "neutral". I am finding literally all camera files I've seen in Capture One quite neutral in the default settings. Still the neutral look in C1 is much more pleasent.
    IMO it's all about balance and tonality (more regarding the response of the gray axis than the colors. The adjustment of colors is mostly quite easy).

    Where in Germany are you, by the way?
    Cologne.

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    thomas, I think I don't know what you mean with "not sharp but sharpened"
    There was obvious camera motion -- or at least some kind of motion -- in many of the crops David posted. FWIW, the motion looked more like mirror slap vibration to me, but I suspect that's due to the small sensor sites rendering motion that way. Regardless, even at high shutter speeds, high resolution sensors will capture/render camera motion. When working such a file, the typical response is to increase sharpening radius to make it look crisper, but in actually that decreases micro detail in the file. Best practice here requires a very sturdy tripod and head, along with mirror up and a cable release or timer delay release even when shutter speeds are short. Of course when testing for the real-world, one needs to work with the mirror operational since that's a critical part of the total imaging system too, so a solid test will show results for captures both ways...
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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post

    As far as the colour go, I am pretty sure that this is intentional, like Sinar also delivers a neutral file.
    My take on this is not that the color was neutral, but many of the colors looked flat -- like the green fern and lawns were all a single uniform hue of green. Now it may have been that way in real life, but my experience is you usually have a subtle gradation of shifting hues within a typical patch of "green" vegetation. Again, processing can wipe this out especially if WB got pushed significantly during raw conversion, as can conversion for web output, so I would not read too much into this yet.

    FWIW Guy and I will be shooting the pocket Macabeth card, which is not the end all for color critique, but at least gives a good intro...
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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    I think we are ALL looking forward to Jack and Guy's test. Even those of us doing our own testing as well.

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    There still seems to be one other issue that may not get resolved for a bit more time, and that is RAW processing. As it stands now, Leica does not have its own software for doing this work (except in camera). They are working with Adobe to provide profiles. Great. Adobe is in the middle of possible overhaul of ACR/LR. Not sure what that will mean. C1 is able to handle the neutral DNGs, but there is no telling what is lost or not with how they are supporting file conversion. (Not criticizing C1 here, just being realistic about the problems with files that may or may not be in any stable output condition, and also there not being any sole dedicated and updated software to best process the files.)

    Not using any of this as an excuse for what does appear to be some motion blur in some of the shots posted. That is bothersome, as if the S2 is supposed to have strength as a "non-tripod" MF shooter, it does not seem to be exhibiting results to solidly support that "feature" if things may be bouncing around enough to cause even minor blur. Again, no way to know what really is the issue from the limited information at this point. Beginning to wonder if that is more a root issue for the delayed release of the S2 at this point? Hope that gets addressed.

    LJ

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Doug, I think CI gets the camera before we do, so I am looking forward to you sharing your results as well!

    Jack
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  39. #239
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    There still seems to be one other issue that may not get resolved for a bit more time, and that is RAW processing. SNIP Hope that gets addressed.

    LJ
    Hi LJ,

    Guy and I will be running the files through both C1 and the latest build of ACR and doing our best with each. Obvious issue is that while Guy and I are pretty proficient with C1, we no longer use ACR with any regularity so even our processing there will be somewhat non-substantive. Again, we'll do our best and post the results, which is all we can do. Other big problem with doing a test at this level is posting image and crop results on the web -- you simply can't avoid color shifts and artifacting in the posted result compared to viewing the original full tiff...
    Jack
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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Hi LJ,

    Guy and I will be running the files through both C1 and the latest build of ACR and doing our best with each. Obvious issue is that while Guy and I are pretty proficient with C1, we no longer use ACR with any regularity so even our processing there will be somewhat non-substantive. Again, we'll do our best and post the results, which is all we can do. Other big problem with doing a test at this level is posting image and crop results on the web -- you simply can't avoid color shifts and artifacting in the posted result compared to viewing the original full tiff...
    Jack,
    Quite agree and I do understand. I was not mentioning the processor issues to discredit anyone, but rather to let people start thinking about how long it may be before all that dust may get settled. I think C1 will do fine for now. ACR.....well, we know that is entering a state of flux, so things may turn out very well.....but that may be a bit later. Presently, ACR still leaves something to be desired for many users, while others find that it does the job quite well for them. Six months from now, we may be seeing lots of improvement in processing algorithms, and that could once again cause us to readjust our perspectives on things....or not. If the S2 files capture the data, that is all that will matter. How that data gets extracted and used to its fullest will develop with time (no pun intended).

    Other point.....why not use a real sized big Macbeth Color Checker for the broader angled outdoor scenes? The tiny ones are great for close in work, but tend to get too lost in bigger shooting

    LJ

  41. #241
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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Hi LJ,

    Guy and I will be running the files through both C1 and the latest build of ACR and doing our best with each.
    Hi Guy
    I hope you'll be using the LR3 beta as well - it seems to have a pretty radically improved processing engine, which is not yet reflected in the ACR releases (and after all, that's what the camera ships with!). I know you guys don't use Aperture, but I'd like to see what happens there as well.

    LJ
    I would have thought that one of the good things about the S2 is that in producing generic DNG files they will be immediately supported in so many different programs, rather than being tied to proprietary software (however good that may be).

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    LJ
    I would have thought that one of the good things about the S2 is that in producing generic DNG files they will be immediately supported in so many different programs, rather than being tied to proprietary software (however good that may be).

    all the best
    Jono,
    I agree. My point was that presently, the S2 files do not yet have finely tuned profiles from many (any?) processing engines. We are not yet seeing final production versions until only now, so some things may still change. My point about Leica not having a dedicated processing app is not to discredit DNG, but that we are all still going to be limited by whatever soup the various processors concoct for the S2 files at this point, rather than being able to be served the files as best intended from the S2. Support of processing by numerous programs is not the issue as much as how well the data gets translated in the app, and that is where the camera profile will matter, I think.

    I do agree that LR3 beta should be used to process the files also, as theoretically, that will be the most current algorithm and profile for handling the S2. I would also like to see how Aperture handles the files, but I would like to see Apple put out some updated profiles first.

    LJ

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    Jack,
    Quite agree and I do understand. I was not mentioning the processor issues to discredit anyone, but rather to let people start thinking about how long it may be before all that dust may get settled. I think C1 will do fine for now. ACR.....well, we know that is entering a state of flux, so things may turn out very well.....but that may be a bit later. Presently, ACR still leaves something to be desired for many users, while others find that it does the job quite well for them. Six months from now, we may be seeing lots of improvement in processing algorithms, and that could once again cause us to readjust our perspectives on things....or not. If the S2 files capture the data, that is all that will matter. How that data gets extracted and used to its fullest will develop with time (no pun intended).

    Other point.....why not use a real sized big Macbeth Color Checker for the broader angled outdoor scenes? The tiny ones are great for close in work, but tend to get too lost in bigger shooting

    LJ

    We just ordered two new X-Rite passports for each other and I have a full card but it is getting old so thought a new one would be great . I also have a WhiBal card as well. We are working on developing a profile for it right now. I will also download L3 beta but I don't think we will need it
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    We just ordered two new X-Rite passports for each other and I have a full card but it is getting old so thought a new one would be great . I also have a WhiBal card as well. We are working developing a profile for it right now
    Great. You folks should be armed and dangerous

    Seriously, I am looking forward to whatever you guys test....from boring to arty....it is all about what the camera is able to produce in a somewhat more realistic use/test. Pull out as many stops as you like. This should be quite instructive and interesting for everybody.

    LJ

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by dfarkas View Post
    Should be up later today..... thanks for asking. I was waiting on a few things from Leica, which I got resolution on during PhotoPlus two weeks ago. Been working on getting everything together since then, amidst work and toddler duties.

    David
    David,
    I was looking over your blog and noticed this image as being labeled "strongly back-lit with no fill"

    It seems to me that it is more rim-lit than back-lit and there is evidence of a rather large and near reflective object in both the reflection in her eyes and the specular modeling on her face. Was there a reflector of some sort used?
    thanks
    -bob

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Bob,
    I agree.....would not call that backlit (strong side lighting as the folds on the back of her top show how bright that light is), and there does appear to be something behind the photographer throwing a lot of light onto the model's face. It may not be "fill flash", but it is fill light for sure.....notice the tiny pupils.

    LJ

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    David,
    I was looking over your blog and noticed this image as being labeled "strongly back-lit with no fill"

    It seems to me that it is more rim-lit than back-lit and there is evidence of a rather large and near reflective object in both the reflection in her eyes and the specular modeling on her face. Was there a reflector of some sort used?
    thanks
    -bob
    Bob,

    The only light in this shot was the sun, which was behind and overhead and quite intense (it was about 3:45PM when this was taken). The reflection in the eyes is the stone floor and walls of the castle ruins we were shooting in. In full disclosure, I did apply a localized adjustment brush on here face to bring it up 0.9 stops. So, I used a PP reflector, you might say.

    David
    David Farkas
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  48. #248
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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by dfarkas View Post
    Bob,

    The only light in this shot was the sun, which was behind and overhead and quite intense (it was about 3:45PM when this was taken). The reflection in the eyes is the stone floor and walls of the castle ruins we were shooting in. In full disclosure, I did apply a localized adjustment brush on here face to bring it up 0.9 stops. So, I used a PP reflector, you might say.

    David
    That stone floor or whatever it might be certainly does count as a reflector since you can see it reflected off her pupils.
    ... and a 0.9 stop local adjustment or dodge and burn is more than enough to alter the image. Personally I would prefer only global WB adjustments on demonstration files. Otherwise I don't know what I am looking at.
    thanks
    -bob

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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    That stone floor or whatever it might be certainly does count as a reflector since you can see it reflected off her pupils.
    ... and a 0.9 stop local adjustment or dodge and burn is more than enough to alter the image. Personally I would prefer only global WB adjustments on demonstration files. Otherwise I don't know what I am looking at.
    thanks
    -bob
    I think Bob would be fine with it (I know I would be) if the raws were available, or the the "generic conversion" JPG (even in low res) was provided.

    I don't buy cameras based on PP manipulated images from them.

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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    Re: The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post

    I don't buy cameras based on PP manipulated images from them.

    So true Doug, one never knows what has been done to the RAW to get to a Tiff, so easy to click the wrong button in the processing software I find

    Always better to see the raws ..

    Nick-T

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