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Another S2 Experience

I have been following the S2 very closely since Leica’s announcement of the camera at Photokina last year. In fact, I went to PhotoPlus in 2008 to handle the pre-production S2 and compare its handling with the other DMF options. I also went to PhotoPlus again this year and participated in Leica’s S2 studio event. I really enjoyed shooting the S2 in the studio, but that is not how I intend to use the S2. So when David Farkas let me know that he was getting an S2 for a couple weeks to demo I began trying to schedule a time when I could get my hands on it for a few hours. So I flew down to Tampa last Sunday and picked up the camera just after Marc (fotografz). It is safe to say I am being very careful with this purchase decision.

I have had several opportunities to handle the S2, get a feel of its ergonomics, and explore the controls over the last year, but the only way to truly learn a camera is to use it. I spent approximately 5 hours Sunday afternoon and another 2 hours Monday morning using the camera. I now have an informed opinion of the S2. A big thank you to David Farkas and Chris Snipes for making this possible. They went out of their way to facilitate my schedule by working Sunday. I really appreciate it.

I will start off with some things that I think could be improved.
- It is too easy to accidently change the shooting mode by inadvertently pushing the thumbwheel. When in Aperture Priority mode pressing the thumbwheel in changes the camera to Program mode. When in Manual mode pressing the thumbwheel changes the camera to Shutter Priority mode. Leica did a great job by color coding the top display (in addition to letter designations) to let the user know which mode your in and which setting are being set by the camera. The shooting mode is also displayed in the viewfinder. Regardless, I had more than one occasion where I inadvertently changed the shooting mode and it took me a minute to figure out what was going on. Leica should put a lock on this or change it to a double click to change modes.

- There is no easy way to quickly delete an image. I understand the need to protect us from ourselves so we don’t accidently delete images, but I think there needs to be a simple way to quickly delete an image when it comes up in review mode after the taking the shot. As it is, the image review comes up and you can’t delete it until the review image clears and then you have to press play, then delete twice (once to delete and another to confirm). The problem with this approach is that if you take a shot and see that it is way off that it takes way to long to go into the play menu to delete the image. I think a better approach would be to separate the review mode and play mode such that in review mode you could press the lower left button twice to delete without having to wait and go into the play mode. I found myself getting in a hurry to delete an image and pressing buttons like mad to get rid of it and almost pressing the delete to many times - once you are in delete mode the lower left button deletes and confirms the delete so it if you press the button to many times you will delete more than one image. This is not a problem when you are not in a hurry as in a normal play back mode.

- Another problem for me was the default mode of the thumbwheel rotation is to zoom the image rather than scroll to the next image. In review mode, this makes perfect sense because you will most likely want to zoom in to check details of the shot. However, in play mode, this is a pain because you have to remember to press the thumbwheel to change its function from zooming the displayed image to jump to next image.

- Exposure compensation values are not displayed in the viewfinder. There is an icon in the viewfinder that indicates EC is in effect, but it doesn’t give you the value plus or minus. It may be possible to repurpose the exposure meter in the viewfinder to show EC when making a change, but I don’t know. This may be one of those things that will get corrected in the S3.

- ISO is not displayed in the viewfinder. I wished the ISO was displayed because I would be more likely to use auto ISO if I could keep track of what it was choosing. I think this is something else for the S3.

None of these things are deal breakers for me. I can easily get comfortable working with the camera as it is, but correcting the items I mentioned would be a big improvement in my opinion. Also, keep in mind that I did not expect the S2 to be like a 35mm dSLR in terms of autofocus performance and ISO performance so I am not going to fault it for not being one in those respects - just like I am not going to fault a dSLR for not having image quality as good as the S2.

I started of with the list of things I didn’t like because the list of things I like is much longer and I don’t have time to list them all. The camera handles really well and I had no problem or fatigue during a 5 hour stretch of hand held shooting. The image quality is excellent and the files are very natural right out of the camera.

I am uploading some dng files for those that want to process the files themselves. Go to www.mediafire.com/markgowin and please overlook the ads - that is why it is a free service. It may take a couple hours to get the files uploaded os be patient please. All I ask is that people do not use the dng files for anything other than their own personal evaluation.

I am posting a few images and, in some cases, crops from the original image. I processed (usually just white balance and minimal sharpening) the images on my laptop so don’t get upset if something looks amiss – it is probably my fault, not the camera.

1. Pelican. Probably one of the first wildlife photos taken with the S2 and 180mm 1/1000th at f 9.5, ISO 320
2. Crop from the pelican photo
3. Bait shop. 180mm, 1/1500th sec at f 6.7, ISO 320
4. Crop from bait shop photo
5. Mythos 70mm handheld at 1/30th sec, ISO 640
6. Crop from Mythos
7. Tattoo shop. 70mm, 1/125th sec at f 8.0, ISO 320, off camera Leica flash w/pocket wizards
8. Tampa Bay skyline, 70mm, 6.0 sec at f 6.7, ISO 160
9. Acropolis Ybor City, 1/3 sec at f 5.7, ISO 320, (lens propped up by silverware, body was held on table and 2 sec selftimer was used)
10. Crop showing Moiré in speaker grill. Yes there is moiré in this image. I didn't try to correct it.










 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Very nice Mark . The images look like they have a little more mojo here and that is the good news. I see the light is a bit softer as well so that does help in that regard. In regard to some of the quirks which all sound like firmware to me which obviously are just firmware updates that can be done after the fact if Leica feels the need. I thought you could change the wheel to several functions but obviously have to figure that one out.

Now moire , thanks I am actually glad you got it. First it tells me something is NOT going on in the background to fix it and second it tells me there lenses can actually hit the nyquist limit. Now let me say these are actually good things as no games are being played out here internally. Bad it gets moire but all backs do, just a fact of life. It's a little wider pattern than I thought I would see to be honest the 6 micron is a smaller pattern than say my back at 6.8 . Also it tells me a shooter can get moire but their engineers can't find it. Reason I don't read the marketing stuff. LOL

My feeling is you used LR here which looks pretty good at the moment. If I get a chance i will try them in C1 . On a personal note glad you got to play with it and see for yourself. I know you been wanting to get your hands on one and glad you got the chance. Nice job
 

yaya

Active member
Very nice Mark . The images look like they have a little more mojo here and that is the good news. I see the light is a bit softer as well so that does help in that regard. In regard to some of the quirks which all sound like firmware to me which obviously are just firmware updates that can be done after the fact if Leica feels the need. I thought you could change the wheel to several functions but obviously have to figure that one out.

Now moire , thanks I am actually glad you got it. First it tells me something is NOT going on in the background to fix it and second it tells me there lenses can actually hit the nyquist limit. Now let me say these are actually good things as no games are being played out here internally. Bad it gets moire but all backs do, just a fact of life. It's a little wider pattern than I thought I would see to be honest the 6 micron is a smaller pattern than say my back at 6.8 . Also it tells me a shooter can get moire but their engineers can't find it. Reason I don't read the marketing stuff. LOL

My feeling is you used LR here which looks pretty good at the moment. If I get a chance i will try them in C1 . On a personal note glad you got to play with it and see for yourself. I know you been wanting to get your hands on one and glad you got the chance. Nice job
Guy, bare in mind that C1's DNG support is not optimized for any specific camera so while it can still provide high IQ in regards to colour, detail and sharpness, artefacts such as moire, hot pixels, purple fringing etc. (the latter does exist in some S2 file that I've seen, which is disappointing) may not be easy to correct.

yair
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Yes Yair do realize that and I know there is some color fringing and artifacts going on with C1 until we see hopefully a profile for it. Actually none of the software maybe truly ready for this LR3 is still beta as well. One reason I mentioned earlier that folks download any raws but save them for a later date when all the software is up to speed for this cam. I know Jack and I talked about this at length when we do our tests is folks hold onto the raws until this settles out and than go back and process again in whatever program seems to be working correctly for this cam. Nothing is a gold standard yet on the S2 so things can certainly change with raw processors as time marches on. Thanks Yair very good points to bring up and something we should all be aware of right now. Nice to see images though and add more pieces to the puzzle. But for folks with C1 and processing you may see some weird stuff right now.
 

Bob

Administrator
Staff member
Glad to see some moire.
From some prior claims I was worried about the lenses, but now my faith has been restored.
-bob
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Same here Bob, I know we really don't want to see it in our images but those claims made me very nervous and actually glad to see No back end stuff going on. My feeling is this sensor to glass to file and don't put any crap in between any of them. AA filters for example and in camera raw processing stuff. Leave that stuff to the shooter to fix. No screen doors as I call them
 

yaya

Active member
Yes Yair do realize that and I know there is some color fringing and artifacts going on with C1 until we see hopefully a profile for it. Actually none of the software maybe truly ready for this LR3 is still beta as well. One reason I mentioned earlier that folks download any raws but save them for a later date when all the software is up to speed for this cam. I know Jack and I talked about this at length when we do our tests is folks hold onto the raws until this settles out and than go back and process again in whatever program seems to be working correctly for this cam. Nothing is a gold standard yet on the S2 so things can certainly change with raw processors as time marches on. Thanks Yair very good points to bring up and something we should all be aware of right now. Nice to see images though and add more pieces to the puzzle. But for folks with C1 and processing you may see some weird stuff right now.
FWIW LR (2 and 3) does not deal very well with purple fringing either.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Never did, sorry to hear that is not better in 3 though. C1 does a excellent job of it for sure on pretty much any camera lens combo I tried it cleans it up very well. Ran into a little the other day with my 28mm and the windows on the outside doing the interiors. Cleaned it right up
 

yaya

Active member
Never did, sorry to hear that is not better in 3 though. C1 does a excellent job of it for sure on pretty much any camera lens combo I tried it cleans it up very well. Ran into a little the other day with my 28mm and the windows on the outside doing the interiors. Cleaned it right up
That's correct C1 does a fantastic job on files from supported cameras, even in extreme situations, but not on generic DNG files (the lens tools are disabled)...
 

vieri

Well-known member
Mrak, thank you for the report and for the images, very good work. A question, what was the F stop for the Mythos shot?
Besides, as others noted, finally some images that show some lenses' character. Last, is it me or there is some serious detail in the pelican's eye's iris? :thumbup:
 
Mrak, thank you for the report and for the images, very good work. A question, what was the F stop for the Mythos shot?
Besides, as others noted, finally some images that show some lenses' character. Last, is it me or there is some serious detail in the pelican's eye's iris? :thumbup:
The Mythos photo was shot at f 3.4. I tried to provide that information for the photos I posted, but overlooked that one. Sorry.

Yes, there is some serious detail in the pelican's eye. I can't remember if I uploaded the dng of the pelican or not. You may check the link in the original post.

I am on my iPhone so it is more difficult to reply to questions and comments. I will post more replies and comments this evening.

Mark
 

Dale Allyn

New member
Thanks for going to this work, Mark. It's great to see some "real world" stuff. I've tried to remain optimistic with regard to the S2, but seeing nothing but "canned" studio shots was causing some concerns to creep into my expectations. Colors are looking very nice so far. One would expect that additional time for well tuned profiles will contribute as well.

Thanks again.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Thanks so much for posting these.

Sorry, but as much as I want to, I don't see the magic here that others apparently see :(

Not that there isn't any character, it's just not very Leica in character IMO. Everything I've seen so far from the S2 is technically excellent, but generally lacks a sense of the richness and depth that is the Leica hallmark. Maybe it doesn't translate to MFD ... but I have seen that special feel done with MFD that's just lacking to my eye with the S2 so far. The Pelican shot is very 2D looking for example like a cut out placed on a background ... maybe it's the lighting?

I opened some of the shots I did down in Florida on my main computer and even printed a few ... and that's what I see there also ... excellent resolution and technically superb files that lack Mojo, or whatever you want to call it.

I guess I need to see more before parting with the "war chest funds" I gathered to get this system ... as it stands, I'm all dressed up and have no place to go :ROTFL:

If someone processes some of these in C1 -v5 it'd be great to see them.


-Marc
 
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