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Thread: Another S2 Experience

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    Another S2 Experience

    I have been following the S2 very closely since Leica’s announcement of the camera at Photokina last year. In fact, I went to PhotoPlus in 2008 to handle the pre-production S2 and compare its handling with the other DMF options. I also went to PhotoPlus again this year and participated in Leica’s S2 studio event. I really enjoyed shooting the S2 in the studio, but that is not how I intend to use the S2. So when David Farkas let me know that he was getting an S2 for a couple weeks to demo I began trying to schedule a time when I could get my hands on it for a few hours. So I flew down to Tampa last Sunday and picked up the camera just after Marc (fotografz). It is safe to say I am being very careful with this purchase decision.

    I have had several opportunities to handle the S2, get a feel of its ergonomics, and explore the controls over the last year, but the only way to truly learn a camera is to use it. I spent approximately 5 hours Sunday afternoon and another 2 hours Monday morning using the camera. I now have an informed opinion of the S2. A big thank you to David Farkas and Chris Snipes for making this possible. They went out of their way to facilitate my schedule by working Sunday. I really appreciate it.

    I will start off with some things that I think could be improved.
    - It is too easy to accidently change the shooting mode by inadvertently pushing the thumbwheel. When in Aperture Priority mode pressing the thumbwheel in changes the camera to Program mode. When in Manual mode pressing the thumbwheel changes the camera to Shutter Priority mode. Leica did a great job by color coding the top display (in addition to letter designations) to let the user know which mode your in and which setting are being set by the camera. The shooting mode is also displayed in the viewfinder. Regardless, I had more than one occasion where I inadvertently changed the shooting mode and it took me a minute to figure out what was going on. Leica should put a lock on this or change it to a double click to change modes.

    - There is no easy way to quickly delete an image. I understand the need to protect us from ourselves so we don’t accidently delete images, but I think there needs to be a simple way to quickly delete an image when it comes up in review mode after the taking the shot. As it is, the image review comes up and you can’t delete it until the review image clears and then you have to press play, then delete twice (once to delete and another to confirm). The problem with this approach is that if you take a shot and see that it is way off that it takes way to long to go into the play menu to delete the image. I think a better approach would be to separate the review mode and play mode such that in review mode you could press the lower left button twice to delete without having to wait and go into the play mode. I found myself getting in a hurry to delete an image and pressing buttons like mad to get rid of it and almost pressing the delete to many times - once you are in delete mode the lower left button deletes and confirms the delete so it if you press the button to many times you will delete more than one image. This is not a problem when you are not in a hurry as in a normal play back mode.

    - Another problem for me was the default mode of the thumbwheel rotation is to zoom the image rather than scroll to the next image. In review mode, this makes perfect sense because you will most likely want to zoom in to check details of the shot. However, in play mode, this is a pain because you have to remember to press the thumbwheel to change its function from zooming the displayed image to jump to next image.

    - Exposure compensation values are not displayed in the viewfinder. There is an icon in the viewfinder that indicates EC is in effect, but it doesn’t give you the value plus or minus. It may be possible to repurpose the exposure meter in the viewfinder to show EC when making a change, but I don’t know. This may be one of those things that will get corrected in the S3.

    - ISO is not displayed in the viewfinder. I wished the ISO was displayed because I would be more likely to use auto ISO if I could keep track of what it was choosing. I think this is something else for the S3.

    None of these things are deal breakers for me. I can easily get comfortable working with the camera as it is, but correcting the items I mentioned would be a big improvement in my opinion. Also, keep in mind that I did not expect the S2 to be like a 35mm dSLR in terms of autofocus performance and ISO performance so I am not going to fault it for not being one in those respects - just like I am not going to fault a dSLR for not having image quality as good as the S2.

    I started of with the list of things I didn’t like because the list of things I like is much longer and I don’t have time to list them all. The camera handles really well and I had no problem or fatigue during a 5 hour stretch of hand held shooting. The image quality is excellent and the files are very natural right out of the camera.

    I am uploading some dng files for those that want to process the files themselves. Go to www.mediafire.com/markgowin and please overlook the ads - that is why it is a free service. It may take a couple hours to get the files uploaded os be patient please. All I ask is that people do not use the dng files for anything other than their own personal evaluation.

    I am posting a few images and, in some cases, crops from the original image. I processed (usually just white balance and minimal sharpening) the images on my laptop so don’t get upset if something looks amiss – it is probably my fault, not the camera.

    1. Pelican. Probably one of the first wildlife photos taken with the S2 and 180mm 1/1000th at f 9.5, ISO 320
    2. Crop from the pelican photo
    3. Bait shop. 180mm, 1/1500th sec at f 6.7, ISO 320
    4. Crop from bait shop photo
    5. Mythos 70mm handheld at 1/30th sec, ISO 640
    6. Crop from Mythos
    7. Tattoo shop. 70mm, 1/125th sec at f 8.0, ISO 320, off camera Leica flash w/pocket wizards
    8. Tampa Bay skyline, 70mm, 6.0 sec at f 6.7, ISO 160
    9. Acropolis Ybor City, 1/3 sec at f 5.7, ISO 320, (lens propped up by silverware, body was held on table and 2 sec selftimer was used)
    10. Crop showing Moiré in speaker grill. Yes there is moiré in this image. I didn't try to correct it.











  2. #2
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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Mark - thanks for the files and the info, much appreciated.

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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Thank you!

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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Many thanks indeed, the files look very good for me!

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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    can we have a 100% crop of a long exposure pics please ?

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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Mark - much appreciated and thanks.

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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Very nice Mark . The images look like they have a little more mojo here and that is the good news. I see the light is a bit softer as well so that does help in that regard. In regard to some of the quirks which all sound like firmware to me which obviously are just firmware updates that can be done after the fact if Leica feels the need. I thought you could change the wheel to several functions but obviously have to figure that one out.

    Now moire , thanks I am actually glad you got it. First it tells me something is NOT going on in the background to fix it and second it tells me there lenses can actually hit the nyquist limit. Now let me say these are actually good things as no games are being played out here internally. Bad it gets moire but all backs do, just a fact of life. It's a little wider pattern than I thought I would see to be honest the 6 micron is a smaller pattern than say my back at 6.8 . Also it tells me a shooter can get moire but their engineers can't find it. Reason I don't read the marketing stuff. LOL

    My feeling is you used LR here which looks pretty good at the moment. If I get a chance i will try them in C1 . On a personal note glad you got to play with it and see for yourself. I know you been wanting to get your hands on one and glad you got the chance. Nice job
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    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Very nice Mark . The images look like they have a little more mojo here and that is the good news. I see the light is a bit softer as well so that does help in that regard. In regard to some of the quirks which all sound like firmware to me which obviously are just firmware updates that can be done after the fact if Leica feels the need. I thought you could change the wheel to several functions but obviously have to figure that one out.

    Now moire , thanks I am actually glad you got it. First it tells me something is NOT going on in the background to fix it and second it tells me there lenses can actually hit the nyquist limit. Now let me say these are actually good things as no games are being played out here internally. Bad it gets moire but all backs do, just a fact of life. It's a little wider pattern than I thought I would see to be honest the 6 micron is a smaller pattern than say my back at 6.8 . Also it tells me a shooter can get moire but their engineers can't find it. Reason I don't read the marketing stuff. LOL

    My feeling is you used LR here which looks pretty good at the moment. If I get a chance i will try them in C1 . On a personal note glad you got to play with it and see for yourself. I know you been wanting to get your hands on one and glad you got the chance. Nice job
    Guy, bare in mind that C1's DNG support is not optimized for any specific camera so while it can still provide high IQ in regards to colour, detail and sharpness, artefacts such as moire, hot pixels, purple fringing etc. (the latter does exist in some S2 file that I've seen, which is disappointing) may not be easy to correct.

    yair

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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Yes Yair do realize that and I know there is some color fringing and artifacts going on with C1 until we see hopefully a profile for it. Actually none of the software maybe truly ready for this LR3 is still beta as well. One reason I mentioned earlier that folks download any raws but save them for a later date when all the software is up to speed for this cam. I know Jack and I talked about this at length when we do our tests is folks hold onto the raws until this settles out and than go back and process again in whatever program seems to be working correctly for this cam. Nothing is a gold standard yet on the S2 so things can certainly change with raw processors as time marches on. Thanks Yair very good points to bring up and something we should all be aware of right now. Nice to see images though and add more pieces to the puzzle. But for folks with C1 and processing you may see some weird stuff right now.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Glad to see some moire.
    From some prior claims I was worried about the lenses, but now my faith has been restored.
    -bob

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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Same here Bob, I know we really don't want to see it in our images but those claims made me very nervous and actually glad to see No back end stuff going on. My feeling is this sensor to glass to file and don't put any crap in between any of them. AA filters for example and in camera raw processing stuff. Leave that stuff to the shooter to fix. No screen doors as I call them
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Yes Yair do realize that and I know there is some color fringing and artifacts going on with C1 until we see hopefully a profile for it. Actually none of the software maybe truly ready for this LR3 is still beta as well. One reason I mentioned earlier that folks download any raws but save them for a later date when all the software is up to speed for this cam. I know Jack and I talked about this at length when we do our tests is folks hold onto the raws until this settles out and than go back and process again in whatever program seems to be working correctly for this cam. Nothing is a gold standard yet on the S2 so things can certainly change with raw processors as time marches on. Thanks Yair very good points to bring up and something we should all be aware of right now. Nice to see images though and add more pieces to the puzzle. But for folks with C1 and processing you may see some weird stuff right now.
    FWIW LR (2 and 3) does not deal very well with purple fringing either.

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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Never did, sorry to hear that is not better in 3 though. C1 does a excellent job of it for sure on pretty much any camera lens combo I tried it cleans it up very well. Ran into a little the other day with my 28mm and the windows on the outside doing the interiors. Cleaned it right up
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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Never did, sorry to hear that is not better in 3 though. C1 does a excellent job of it for sure on pretty much any camera lens combo I tried it cleans it up very well. Ran into a little the other day with my 28mm and the windows on the outside doing the interiors. Cleaned it right up
    That's correct C1 does a fantastic job on files from supported cameras, even in extreme situations, but not on generic DNG files (the lens tools are disabled)...

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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Mrak, thank you for the report and for the images, very good work. A question, what was the F stop for the Mythos shot?
    Besides, as others noted, finally some images that show some lenses' character. Last, is it me or there is some serious detail in the pelican's eye's iris?
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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by archivue View Post
    can we have a 100% crop of a long exposure pics please ?
    I will see what I can do for you when I get back home this evening.

    Mark

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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by vieri View Post
    Mrak, thank you for the report and for the images, very good work. A question, what was the F stop for the Mythos shot?
    Besides, as others noted, finally some images that show some lenses' character. Last, is it me or there is some serious detail in the pelican's eye's iris?
    The Mythos photo was shot at f 3.4. I tried to provide that information for the photos I posted, but overlooked that one. Sorry.

    Yes, there is some serious detail in the pelican's eye. I can't remember if I uploaded the dng of the pelican or not. You may check the link in the original post.

    I am on my iPhone so it is more difficult to reply to questions and comments. I will post more replies and comments this evening.

    Mark

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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Mark
    thank you so much for posting the DNG files and your review.
    am

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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Thanks for going to this work, Mark. It's great to see some "real world" stuff. I've tried to remain optimistic with regard to the S2, but seeing nothing but "canned" studio shots was causing some concerns to creep into my expectations. Colors are looking very nice so far. One would expect that additional time for well tuned profiles will contribute as well.

    Thanks again.

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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Thanks so much for posting these.

    Sorry, but as much as I want to, I don't see the magic here that others apparently see

    Not that there isn't any character, it's just not very Leica in character IMO. Everything I've seen so far from the S2 is technically excellent, but generally lacks a sense of the richness and depth that is the Leica hallmark. Maybe it doesn't translate to MFD ... but I have seen that special feel done with MFD that's just lacking to my eye with the S2 so far. The Pelican shot is very 2D looking for example like a cut out placed on a background ... maybe it's the lighting?

    I opened some of the shots I did down in Florida on my main computer and even printed a few ... and that's what I see there also ... excellent resolution and technically superb files that lack Mojo, or whatever you want to call it.

    I guess I need to see more before parting with the "war chest funds" I gathered to get this system ... as it stands, I'm all dressed up and have no place to go

    If someone processes some of these in C1 -v5 it'd be great to see them.


    -Marc

  21. #21
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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    I have to agree there is nothing special about these images. Could be a Nikon or Canon for all I know.

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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Thanks so much for posting these.

    Sorry, but as much as I want to, I don't see the magic here that others apparently see

    Not that there isn't any character, it's just not very Leica in character IMO. Everything I've seen so far from the S2 is technically excellent, but generally lacks a sense of the richness and depth that is the Leica hallmark. Maybe it doesn't translate to MFD ... but I have seen that special feel done with MFD that's just lacking to my eye with the S2 so far. The Pelican shot is very 2D looking for example like a cut out placed on a background ... maybe it's the lighting?

    I opened some of the shots I did down in Florida on my main computer and even printed a few ... and that's what I see there also ... excellent resolution and technically superb files that lack Mojo, or whatever you want to call it.

    I guess I need to see more before parting with the "war chest funds" I gathered to get this system ... as it stands, I'm all dressed up and have no place to go

    If someone processes some of these in C1 -v5 it'd be great to see them.


    -Marc
    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    I have to agree there is nothing special about these images. Could be a Nikon or Canon for all I know.
    Marc, to me it all depends on what one intends as "Leica character". If you consider the last generation of M lenses (the ASPH or the 90 APO), then we have it here as well - if what you have in mind is more like the old generation of glass, then I do agree with you: these samples are too technically perfect, too clinical, lack that glow & character that comes out of certain optical imperfections exploited to the max (coma = leica glow, etc).

    Doug & Marc, while I do agree with you both on the character, the pelican shot IMHO show very good detail and a very smooth transaction to the OOF areas with a very smooth rendition of the above areas (just trying not to use the dreaded B word here! ). DR is also very noticeable in these files, and while my D3 comes close it doesn't get there - my P45+ does though. I don't own high-rez Nikon or Canon cameras, but I do have and use day in day out a D3 with the best glass available, D2Xs & D2X before that, and I think (after having shot tenths of thousands of frames with these cameras) that the results are not up there in terms of sharpness and smoothness (I am actually glad they aren't for those going to shell out for the S2 ). Character is probably more to be expected as a result of a photographer's use of light, composition, and of the great technical qualities of the lenses than as something automatically coming out of a camera anyway...
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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Thanks so much for posting these.

    Sorry, but as much as I want to, I don't see the magic here that others apparently see

    Not that there isn't any character, it's just not very Leica in character IMO. Everything I've seen so far from the S2 is technically excellent, but generally lacks a sense of the richness and depth that is the Leica hallmark. Maybe it doesn't translate to MFD ... but I have seen that special feel done with MFD that's just lacking to my eye with the S2 so far. The Pelican shot is very 2D looking for example like a cut out placed on a background ... maybe it's the lighting?

    I opened some of the shots I did down in Florida on my main computer and even printed a few ... and that's what I see there also ... excellent resolution and technically superb files that lack Mojo, or whatever you want to call it.

    I guess I need to see more before parting with the "war chest funds" I gathered to get this system ... as it stands, I'm all dressed up and have no place to go

    If someone processes some of these in C1 -v5 it'd be great to see them.


    -Marc
    I think it is more softer light than anything else on this series but I do agree Marc what we are seeing from these lenses is clinical in look. I mentioned this a long time ago but no one paid attention that this would be my fear. I will get some in c1 and see if they are somewhat different. These are slightly better than yours from a light standpoint but real LUX mojo is not in these. The detail seems to be there and looks to be coming from this type of sensor and size that is a given. More dissecting needed. LOL
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  24. #24
    ddk
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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    I'm not sure that anyone sees any magic in these images, we're appreciating Mark's effort to share the raw files. In fact these images prove that one still needs the right technique when it comes to MF and there's no advantage to S2's dslr like qualities if you don't have it!

    The more I see the more the files look like those from the P25+ that I tried.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Thanks so much for posting these.

    Sorry, but as much as I want to, I don't see the magic here that others apparently see

    Not that there isn't any character, it's just not very Leica in character IMO. Everything I've seen so far from the S2 is technically excellent, but generally lacks a sense of the richness and depth that is the Leica hallmark. Maybe it doesn't translate to MFD ... but I have seen that special feel done with MFD that's just lacking to my eye with the S2 so far. The Pelican shot is very 2D looking for example like a cut out placed on a background ... maybe it's the lighting?

    I opened some of the shots I did down in Florida on my main computer and even printed a few ... and that's what I see there also ... excellent resolution and technically superb files that lack Mojo, or whatever you want to call it.

    I guess I need to see more before parting with the "war chest funds" I gathered to get this system ... as it stands, I'm all dressed up and have no place to go

    If someone processes some of these in C1 -v5 it'd be great to see them.


    -Marc
    Last edited by ddk; 25th November 2009 at 09:58.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    The P25 is a very nice back and owned one for quite awhile. It does not have the DR like the larger backs and 6.8 size so it is more crunchy if you know what I mean. It does have excellent color and saturation very much a Kodak sensor trademark and one I do like myself. I do agree David one needs all the right shooting elements and light and all that to produce great images. I don't think anyone disagree's on that and certainly appreciate Marks efforts very much. Still think there is no buy decision on this system yet though for us pixel peepers and such.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    I'm not sure that anyone sees any magic in these images, we're appreciating Mark's effort to share the raw files. In fact these images prove that one still needs the right technique when it comes to MF and there's no advantage to S2's dslr like qualities if you don't have it!

    The more I see the more the files look like those from the P25+ that I tried.
    This has sort of been my take on this whole thing. Not saying that it's "just a P25+" (I own one and like it), but just saying that David has sort of summed up how I feel so far. I do really like some elements of the S2 system, such as weather sealing, form-factor, etc. I'm not dishing it at all, just waiting for the "zing".

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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    I tried Raw Therapee and C1 processing the DNG raw files, and they look good to me. But IMHO, S2 cannot compete with 30+MP MF digital backs (I like my Sinar 75LV better), and cannot beat high-end Nikon/Canon DSLR's either. We always pay a higher price for some compromises, but miss both best ends.

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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    The P25 is a very nice back and owned one for quite awhile. It does not have the DR like the larger backs and 6.8 size so it is more crunchy if you know what I mean. It does have excellent color and saturation very much a Kodak sensor trademark and one I do like myself. I do agree David one needs all the right shooting elements and light and all that to produce great images. I don't think anyone disagree's on that and certainly appreciate Marks efforts very much. Still think there is no buy decision on this system yet though for us pixel peepers and such.
    Again, posting thoughts and images is MUCH appreciated!

    Guy, I think on a pixel peeping basis it's a winner. I have my images on a 30" screen and it's got all the technical stuff. Not just the few I posted from my lap top ... but in other light also ... I shot 170 frames and not all of them were in that same light.

    By character, I don't necessarily mean old Leica ... I'm using the newer lenses on a M9 and a lot of it isn't all that clinical unless you DO pixel peep. There is still that Leica character with a sense of depth and all that. POP, Mojo, that Leica something that you know when you see it and miss it when you don't see it. Hard to explain. M has it, DMR has it ...

    Maybe it's to much to expect translating it up to MFD.

    I need to see some "moody dark" stuff with a S2 ... like Irakly does all the time with his Contax and P25 or M8.

    I'll keep watching,

    -Marc

  29. #29
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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    all this about not seeing the "zing" makes me wonder if we are reaching the limit for mp and image clarity at which point the images are just too perfect..and thus boring.
    We as customers have desired more and sharper but now we miss the imperfection..like we missed the hiss and hum of a good lp on a stereo.
    The mojo, as it has been called needs also to come from the photographer/processor now we have these ultra clean and sharp files with 12stops of dr..it is like living in a well lit clean room.. very nice and all but dull too. Time work on the photo skills, selective degrade, sculpt with light, impeccable composition, etc..until then it all is just a bit too clinical for my cup of tea.
    I was really hoping for an adapter to use some of my lux r lenses on the s2 for this reason..and why so many of us are using c mount lenses shooting hd video.. the digital lenses are just too boring..at least with still photography you can work post on them until the cows come home.

  30. #30
    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    The problem I have is that I have yet to see any posts of a 100% crop out of a 640 ISO or 1250 ISO image. Mark, that tattoo parlour shot looks about right, but don't know what ISO it was shot at.

    In addition to high ISO, it has to be a high ISO shot taken in an environment where you would typically use it, ie, room light, or late in the day natural light. I've seen high ISO samples from manufacturers taken at 1PM on sunny days and tossed them out. That is the best possible scenario for high ISO in terms of what the quality would be, but that is not how users would typically use it. Or rather, it does not demonstrate the quality that a user would see when used in lower light, shadowy conditions.

    I am very anxious to see what we see on December 3 at our Leica open house in Miami. When I rate a product as usable at a certain ISO, that status is based on very stringent criteria and until I demonstrate it at that criteria, I'm not sold.

    That said, we obviously have seen enough from our brief time with the S2 to make a pretty major decision to take on the Leica line and we're excited about that.


    Steve Hendrix


    Steve
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  31. #31
    ddk
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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Again, posting thoughts and images is MUCH appreciated!

    Guy, I think on a pixel peeping basis it's a winner. I have my images on a 30" screen and it's got all the technical stuff. Not just the few I posted from my lap top ... but in other light also ... I shot 170 frames and not all of them were in that same light.

    By character, I don't necessarily mean old Leica ... I'm using the newer lenses on a M9 and a lot of it isn't all that clinical unless you DO pixel peep. There is still that Leica character with a sense of depth and all that. POP, Mojo, that Leica something that you know when you see it and miss it when you don't see it. Hard to explain. M has it, DMR has it ...

    Maybe it's to much to expect translating it up to MFD.

    I need to see some "moody dark" stuff with a S2 ... like Irakly does all the time with his Contax and P25 or M8.

    I'll keep watching,

    -Marc
    But that's Irakly not the equipment! And the Contax glass has its own mojo...

    I think that what most of us who already own other MF systems are looking for, is a strong reason to change and we're not seeing it yet. With MF the quality bar of glass was always set higher than 35mm and that's one of the reasons that we don't see Leica blowing the competition away. Then the system is based on a Kodak chip, what could they come up with software wise that Hasselblad and Phase didn't with their years of experience?

    IMO, at the end of the day we're looking just at another MFD system, on a par with the rest that are Kodak based, maybe something to consider if I was just starting out but not something to lose a ton cash over buy changing valid, working systems.

  32. #32
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Interesting comments from the existing MF shooting folks. Tend to agree on many of them if not all. Obviously we still need more time and images and I am sure we will see more coming to help us figure this out. To me it's a big puzzle in the sky we added a few more pieces but still a lot more to fill it needs to come in.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  33. #33
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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Well in C1 it is not being very friendly on the noise .I usually have my P30+ at 10 luminance and color 30 as my default . I did the same on Marks S2 shot and it is not that friendly. I did open it in ACR and the noise looked cleaner again C1 we may just have to find a sweet spot for it or better yet a profile. But at ISO 320 we have noise Houston and we got Moire in both programs. Detail is there but this is not positive at the moment so we have to see what's up here . But I have my numbers low , going to 20 , 40 it gets looking better
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  34. #34
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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Here is a crop (maybe not 100%) from the Tampa Skyline. I took the crop from the most demanding portion of the image. The sky was not totally dark as there were some low clouds which were reflecting the street lights. One last thing, I wouldn't get too concerned about the colors because I realized, after the fact, that I hadn't white balanced the photo. I chose to provide a crop from the full image as posted above with no changes other than the crop.


  35. #35
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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix View Post
    The problem I have is that I have yet to see any posts of a 100% crop out of a 640 ISO or 1250 ISO image. Mark, that tattoo parlour shot looks about right, but don't know what ISO it was shot at.

    In addition to high ISO, it has to be a high ISO shot taken in an environment where you would typically use it, ie, room light, or late in the day natural light. I've seen high ISO samples from manufacturers taken at 1PM on sunny days and tossed them out. That is the best possible scenario for high ISO in terms of what the quality would be, but that is not how users would typically use it. Or rather, it does not demonstrate the quality that a user would see when used in lower light, shadowy conditions.

    Steve Hendrix


    Steve
    Steve,

    The Mythos beer shot was at 640 ISO in indoor room light. 1/30th at f/3.4 handheld. I snagged the camera and took this when we all sat down for lunch. Mark and Chris went for the Lebanese lager, I opted for the Greek brew.

    David
    David Farkas
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  36. #36
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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I usually have my P30+ at 10 luminance and color 30 as my default

    my preset is L:00 + C:08 for the P45 and L:00 + C:12 for the P21+ at base ISO.
    Above L:06 softness is introduced and for some reason apparently this applies to all cameras (all I've seen in C1).
    If I use Luminance NR in C1 I only apply it to a variant and I only take the dark tonal values from this variant in a layered TIF in Photoshop.

  37. #37
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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gowin View Post
    Here is a crop (maybe not 100%) from the Tampa Skyline. I took the crop from the most demanding portion of the image. The sky was not totally dark as there were some low clouds which were reflecting the street lights. One last thing, I wouldn't get too concerned about the colors because I realized, after the fact, that I hadn't white balanced the photo. I chose to provide a crop from the full image as posted above with no changes other than the crop.
    There is a weird gritty noise in the corners, but not close to the building. Is that JPG compression? What ISO is it at, and what was the exposure time like?
    Carsten - Website

  38. #38
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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Agree with Thomas -- I use L at 00 for all cameras at base ISO, however for Color I usually ramp up to around 35 for smoother color transitions.
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  39. #39
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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Carsten,

    You are probably seeing jpg compression in the crop. In fact, you can see a distinct circle above the bright lighted building top which looks like compression as well. I expect a high resolution conversion would eliminate this.


    Edit: 6.0 Sec at f6.7, ISO 160

    Mark

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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    David did a good job hand holding the Mythos beer bottle shot. I couldn't get my beer bottle to stay still long enough to get a good hand held shot. Seriously, his technique was better than mine. I couldn't get as good results even at 1/45th.

  41. #41
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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gowin View Post
    David did a good job hand holding the Mythos beer bottle shot. I couldn't get my beer bottle to stay still long enough to get a good hand held shot. Seriously, his technique was better than mine. I couldn't get as good results even at 1/45th.
    Yes....but you will notice that my glass is still full when I shot this.

    David
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  42. #42
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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix View Post
    The problem I have is that I have yet to see any posts of a 100% crop out of a 640 ISO or 1250 ISO image. Mark, that tattoo parlour shot looks about right, but don't know what ISO it was shot at.

    In addition to high ISO, it has to be a high ISO shot taken in an environment where you would typically use it, ie, room light, or late in the day natural light. I've seen high ISO samples from manufacturers taken at 1PM on sunny days and tossed them out. That is the best possible scenario for high ISO in terms of what the quality would be, but that is not how users would typically use it. Or rather, it does not demonstrate the quality that a user would see when used in lower light, shadowy conditions.

    I am very anxious to see what we see on December 3 at our Leica open house in Miami. When I rate a product as usable at a certain ISO, that status is based on very stringent criteria and until I demonstrate it at that criteria, I'm not sold.

    That said, we obviously have seen enough from our brief time with the S2 to make a pretty major decision to take on the Leica line and we're excited about that.


    Steve Hendrix


    Steve
    Here you go ... ISO 320 on the shaky shot and 1250 on the second one. No white card balance, or tripod ... just hand held snaps indoors to see the noise difference. LR3 Beta at defaults, no sharpening.

  43. #43
    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Here you go ... ISO 320 on the shaky shot and 1250 on the second one. No white card balance, or tripod ... just hand held snaps indoors to see the noise difference. LR3 Beta at defaults, no sharpening.
    Thank you Mark.

    We'll be shooting some people faces indoor and late in the day next Thursday with the S2 and see how she goes.


    Steve Hendrix
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  44. #44
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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by MFnLF View Post
    I tried Raw Therapee and C1 processing the DNG raw files, and they look good to me. But IMHO, S2 cannot compete with 30+MP MF digital backs (I like my Sinar 75LV better), and cannot beat high-end Nikon/Canon DSLR's either. We always pay a higher price for some compromises, but miss both best ends.
    my D3x produces more leica feel with certain lenses, like the 85mm f 1.4 or the 105mm f2.0. sorry guys, but the S2 is just another low res MF system with issues like color fringing etc.
    peter

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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Here's a more "Leica-like" shot with the S2 and 70mm. South Beach volleyball. ISO 320, 1/3000th at f/4.8.

    Anyone want to see the action shots?

    David
    David Farkas
    Leica Store Miami

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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by dfarkas View Post
    Here's a more "Leica-like" shot with the S2 and 70mm. South Beach volleyball. ISO 320, 1/3000th at f/4.8.

    Anyone want to see the action shots?

    David
    YES!

  47. #47
    ddk
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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by dfarkas View Post
    Here's a more "Leica-like" shot with the S2 and 70mm. South Beach volleyball. ISO 320, 1/3000th at f/4.8.

    Anyone want to see the action shots?

    David
    Of course, and raw files would even be more appreciated!

  48. #48
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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by dfarkas View Post
    Here's a more "Leica-like" shot with the S2 and 70mm. South Beach volleyball. ISO 320, 1/3000th at f/4.8.

    Anyone want to see the action shots?

    David
    Hey David, you're worse than Scrooge McDuck. Time to deliver the goods !!!!

  49. #49
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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    "Hey David, you're worse than Scrooge McDuck. Time to deliver the goods !!!!"

    A full set of raw files will come with each S2 purchased. There's no hurry is there?

  50. #50
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    Re: Another S2 Experience

    Okay, I just published a short posting on my blog with all the beach volleyball images and some explanation behind them.

    I'll also be posting updates from the S2 studio event as well as images from actual shoots.

    I know some of you are interested in seeing RAW files and that's great. I have lots of DNGs from the production S2 that I can share, but due to time and bandwidth constraints I'd prefer not to upload them all. If anyone is interested in getting these files, I'd be happy to send out a DVD with a variety of RAW images on it. Please either email me at [email protected] or call me on my cell at 954-655-9069.

    Have a Happy Thanksgiving.

    David
    David Farkas
    Leica Store Miami

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