Site Sponsors
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 101 to 150 of 183

Thread: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

  1. #101
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter, Fla.
    Posts
    1,967
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Marc,

    How do you like the bokeh with the Hassy (Fujinon) lenses. I've seen some not too great examples and heard this issue raised as a negative vs Zeiss glass.

  2. #102
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    N.S. Canada
    Posts
    2,010
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Jack - thanks.

  3. #103
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Marc,

    How do you like the bokeh with the Hassy (Fujinon) lenses. I've seen some not too great examples and heard this issue raised as a negative vs Zeiss glass.
    Tell you what David, here's two shots from two different H/C lenses done for different jobs ... one is the proprietor of Muddy Creek Cowboy Rain Gear for a commercial shoot (H/C 300/4 @ f/5.6) ... and the other is a flower girl wedding candid (H/C 100/2.2 @ f/2.2.)

    You tell me if the OOF Bokeh is nice and the subject looks 3D.

    One thing I can say, the specular highlights aren't Chrysler Logos, and 99% of wide aperture shots I take are in focus : -)
    Last edited by fotografz; 25th June 2008 at 16:29.

  4. #104
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    I want both these lenses and I am going to get them. LOL

  5. #105
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter, Fla.
    Posts
    1,967
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Marc,
    Well, that answers that question Beautiful captures, both of them. The shot of the flower girl is really impressive at f/2.2 and why I want AF with my fast glass. Really nice work on these.

  6. #106
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,513
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Marc,
    You are making all of this even tougher for me ;-) These are great captures, and yes, both lenses are delivering a lot of dimension. The flower girl shot jumps off of the screen. I am imagining this shot in print.....outstanding. Wonderful......just wonderful.

    LJ

  7. #107
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    Marc,
    You are making all of this even tougher for me ;-) These are great captures, and yes, both lenses are delivering a lot of dimension. The flower girl shot jumps off of the screen. I am imagining this shot in print.....outstanding. Wonderful......just wonderful.

    LJ
    Thanks LJ.

    I've found these lenses to be suspect by those who never used them. Those that do use them think highly of them ... obviously including me : -)

    Here are two shots that demonstrate the versatility of the integrated H3 system. The first shows the excellent AF abilities of a H/C 150/3.5 and 1.7X extender mounted on a H3D/31 @ ISO 400 ... a horse running at me, shallow DOF due to shooting wide open (250mm @ f/5), and the camera helped me nailed it. This image was printed 6 feet square for a horse riding equipment trade shoe booth, so people were viewing it up close and personal. Spectacular prints.

    Then I can turn around and in-studio shoot tethered to a computer, adjust lighting with a live view on a 30" monitor, and quickly pop off a bunch of catalog shots of wheels using the HD3, but this time with a 80/2.8 stopped down. How MF helps here are that the handling of tonal gradations and specular highlights is far superior to anything available in 35mm DSLRs. This is an un-retouched shot of a brushed metal wheel using Profoto strobes.
    Last edited by fotografz; 20th June 2008 at 11:49.

  8. #108
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,513
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Marc,
    This kind of stuff works for me!! Really like the shots, and have an appreciation of both your skills and what the gear can do in capable hands.

    The entire concept of a well-performing and integrated system is not lost here, and the HC glass is not giving much up. The wrestling match I keep having in my own thoughts right now are how much trade-off one really is getting by chasing parts versus a more integrated system. Not saying that things are not able to be used with other combinations, but from a utility and effective working perspective, there is something to be said for using gear that gets out your way and let's you work. (Some will argue that selecting the right lens/body/back/adapters/cables/etc., part is very important, and I will not dispute that. But maybe spending a lot of time finding and assembling those combinations for each shoot may not ultimately deliver any more than being able to spend more time shooting with stuff that just works together well and delivers.)

    LJ

    P.S. I realize the horse/rider shot had a specific purpose, but I had to smile to myself a bit. Great capture with the horse "gathered up", and tough to get without good AF on camera for sure. Now picture doing this kind of shooting with young Argentine polo players coming at you at 35+mph, hanging out of the saddle, and trying to whack a ball down the field toward you, that you may have to dodge to keep from getting hit!! That is part of my action shooting world. Maybe not suited for MF, but then I have the Canons for that ;-)

  9. #109
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,383
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Marc

    When did you take that cowboy shot? I swear I saw a Ron Riddick painting in the claggett rey gallery in Vail a few years ago, with EXACTLY that scene, even to the dog in the backgriund!

    except of course, it was with the obligatory YELLOW slicker

    Great shot!

    regards
    Victor

  10. #110
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    I am about to get in big trouble here I think. Details later
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  11. #111
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,513
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I am about to get in big trouble here I think. Details later
    Guy,
    If you have not already done so, you might want to scan that other thread we have going also. Just about the time I thought I was getting things figured out, bam, another 2x4 to the head to shake some more cobwebs loose

    This is really becoming quite interesting and more than tempting in so many ways, especially after seeing some of the images, reading some of the discussions, and actually thinking about what may be a direction to head.

    So, share your next impulsive decision with us

    LJ

  12. #112
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    This stuff scares me . Look at this at 4.5
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  13. #113
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Not sure I can pass on this deal.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  14. #114
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Frankly I think I just got my 3rd system . Just too hard to ignore. I'm toast
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  15. #115
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,513
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Frankly I think I just got my 3rd system . Just too hard to ignore. I'm toast
    And what are you going to do when Marc talks you into a Hasselblad, and David and others talk you into the Sinar Hy6?? NOW you are seeing the crisis I have been staring at. These bad boys can do some serious damage to your wallet and your eyeballs once you start down the path

    Hey, Marc has been having somewhat of a fire sale lately, cleaning his gear closet out, I may soon follow with a bunch of Canon stuff (and a kidney or so) to get the coin together for these toys

    LJ

  16. #116
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    I'm hiding from Marc. LOL

    Mamiya ZD is what i am getting. Demo from Camera West
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  17. #117
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I'm hiding from Marc. LOL

    Mamiya ZD is what i am getting. Demo from Camera West
    Way to go Guy !!!!!! Welcome to MFD Land.

    Don't buy any lenses, I have some killer AF ones for you !!!! And a few things no one else has : -)

    Best prices for you my friend.

    WaHooo !

  18. #118
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    760
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Marc. I would like to echo some of your comments. I have been very impressed with the 100mm HC in regards to bokeh. I would love to get my hands on the 300mm HC at some point

  19. #119
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    This stuff scares me . Look at this at 4.5
    Ahhhh, a convert.

    Pictures talk and "you know what" walks : -)

  20. #120
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    492
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    And what are you going to do when Marc talks you into a Hasselblad, and David and others talk you into the Sinar Hy6?? ...
    LJ
    LJ,

    For the record, I am not promoting the Hy6. My position is that one camera does not do it all for me. I believe you need both leaf shutter and focal plane shutter capabilities, and I happen to prefer the freedom of Sinarback adapters as they let me use multiple cameras and support the Hasselblad 200 series better than Hasselblad. If you do not need AF, then the Hasselblad 203 or 205 will fit the bill for many people, as it can accommodate both leaf and focal plane shutters. If you need AF, then your only other option is to go with the Phase/Mamiya AFD III or ZD camera, and just wait for their announced leaf shutter lenses to appear...but then no waist level finder....

    Don't get me wrong, the Hy6 is still a wonderful and extremely capable camera, and like anything else, it takes a little getting used to. But, the flexibility of the Sinarback system is what rocks for me.
    Last edited by David Klepacki; 11th April 2008 at 13:00.

  21. #121
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter, Fla.
    Posts
    1,967
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Frankly I think I just got my 3rd system . Just too hard to ignore. I'm toast
    You were toast when you got the D300, burned toast with the D3 and Zeiss lenses. Not sure what comes after that, but welcome to another journey down the slippery slope

  22. #122
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,383
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    So THAT's what Guy meant when he said

    Ma' Mamiya!



    you will not look "back"

  23. #123
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,513
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Klepacki View Post
    LJ,

    For the record, I am not promoting the Hy6. My position is that one camera does not do it all for me. I believe you need both leaf shutter and focal plane shutter capabilities, and I happen to prefer the freedom of Sinarback adapters as they let me use multiple cameras and support the Hasselblad 200 series better than Hasselblad. If you do not need AF, then the Hasselblad 203 or 205 will fit the bill for many people, as it can accommodate both leaf and focal plane shutters. If you need AF, then your only other option is to go with the Phase/Mamiya AFD III or ZD camera, and just wait for their announced leaf shutter lenses to appear...but then no waist level finder....

    Don't get me wrong, the Hy6 is still a wonderful and extremely capable camera, and like anything else, it takes a little getting used to. But, the flexibility of the Sinarback system is what rocks for me.
    David,
    I completely understand what you are saying. My comment to Guy was just another good ribbing at him, and both you and Marc (and others) have been so engaged and helpful in these threads that I had to drag you into that part of the fray

    On a slightly more serious note, I must confess that all of this discussion has me both itching to jump in and start shooting on one hand, and nearly paralyzed confused on the other The Sinarback is looking very good, as is the Hy6 for that matter. The Hasselblad has its attractiveness also, and there are a couple of question marks still floating there too. The Mamiya ZD is an incredible deal entry point camera with a lot of potential and promise. The landscape is still lush, but also not real easy to walk through yet.

    I guess a somewhat "good" thing from my perspective for me right now is not coming in with many(any) real biases, or existing kit. (When I used to business consult, I would always caution my clients to NOT make decisions based on sunk costs, or those things already purchased, owned or in place. Really hard to get folks to not handcuff themselves with some things.) With the kinds of kits we have been discussing, existing gear and preferences can push one in one direction or another. It is funny, in a way, I shot Nikon film for 25 years, have tons of lenses, bodies and everything a shooting pro would collect. When it came time to go digital, I went "clean slate", took my own advice, and wound up going to Canon, as it was the only thing that could deliver what I needed. I was worried, yet happy with that choice then and now. My point being that all that "great glass" I had collected and used, is not so great today on digital bodies.....even those that can handle it with manual focus, etc. MF stuff does not seem quite the same, but even Marc had his own bit of revelation with new HC glass compared to his beloved older Zeiss glass.

    All of that was sort of what I was driving toward from the start.....make what I think are very good choices based on what I plan to shoot, how I like shooting, and what various lines/systems have to offer. The Sinarbacks look impressive....not perfect, but very impressive. Same for the Phase and the Hasselblad backs. Schneider glass looks impressive, but so does some of the newer (and older) Hasselblad and even Mamiya glass. Same for the bodies in between. As you and others have mentioned a few times, most of the stuff out there is really good and will deliver. My task at hand is still figuring out direction and needs. All of this discussion is helping me quite a bit, and I hope it is also helping some others too.

    LJ

  24. #124
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Hi guys. Just got a minute but I did decided to get a Mamiya ZD demo instead of the D3. I will use the Nikon D300 for the event and stuff like that work but will slowly build this Mamiya stuff . I stretched the budget here but the price was so good I could not resist. Just a quickie
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  25. #125
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,513
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Hi guys. Just got a minute but I did decided to get a Mamiya ZD demo instead of the D3. I will use the Nikon D300 for the event and stuff like that work but will slowly build this Mamiya stuff . I stretched the budget here but the price was so good I could not resist. Just a quickie
    Congrats, Guy

    You are probably going to enjoy it more than even you may have imagined. The stock event shots and stuff can be covered nicely with your D300. For bigger splashes and more of your commercial shooting, the ZD is going to deliver so much more for you. And as Marc has astutely pointed out....you bill the client for renting your gear to get those shots, so it will pay for itself a lot sooner. It always seems harder to do that with the 35MM DSLRs, and the Leica is more like your passion than your work tool, so that too is hard. But hauling out the big gun gets that meter running for them

    LJ

    P.S. I absolutely know better than to say anything about your next lens collection.

  26. #126
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,383
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    viewing on the Nikons threads has already decreased

  27. #127
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    I'm like butter now spread out evenly among them all. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  28. #128
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,383
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Well, Guy
    I can say I was tempted for a while by some of the D300 and D3 shots from you and Kurt, and the Zeiss glass. But I can get all the Zeiss glass I want in MF AND I have AF with Contax.

    The M8 is still really great for size and travel, and it gets use. The DMR and long lenses are a great combos (see japps 105-280 shots, but I keep using them ONLY when I can't use the MF.

    I even went back to some old Kodak back shots and they were MUCH more satisfying than what I have seen here fromn even the best Nikon (ok ok jpgs, but HEY! )

    I am sure you will bring a fresh perspective to some of the MF format discussions, so keep the examples coming., and have fun!

    regards
    Victor

  29. #129
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter, Fla.
    Posts
    1,967
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Guy,
    Congrats on your new kit, I am sure you will love it. Looking forward to a whole new set of comparison shots.

  30. #130
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,513
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Guy,
    Congrats on your new kit, I am sure you will love it. Looking forward to a whole new set of comparison shots.
    David K,
    Now we just need to push him into using a Hassleblad or Hy6 or something similar to do his comparison shots

    LJ

  31. #131
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    492
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Guy,

    Congratulations on your ZD!

    I think there is a Mamiya 28mm lens out there with your name on it .... I would love to see what you can do with it. Welcome to the world of digital MF.

  32. #132
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Have to say last night after dinner Jack and I went back in the conference room and printed a couple images from the ZD and seriously we both were floored. We have 2 3800 printers all set up for this workshop and i took a couple shots yesterday nothing special but I shot them with the Mamiya 80mm 2.8 standard lens that comes with the package and I shot one at ISO200 and there is very little noise at 2.8 and the detail of Jack is amazing . Than I took one at 4.5 handheld at ISO 100 and folks for a few dollars more kicks the living stuffing out of ANY DSLR on the market. I don't like saying that stuff but reality is reality and yes this is slow and not the greatest MF setup out there and is a 22 mpx Dalsa back but I am no hurry to upgrade nor is Jack after we blew up a section that would be 8 FEET wide of the building. Maybe not the best setup out there and i know the Aptus , Hassy and Phase backs will do better but damn folks this is amazing jump up. Someday i will move up and maybe as things settle down the picture and future of MF will be clear but this is certainly a great entry ticket in to the MF world. I bought a demo unit and saved even more money so this turns out to be a no brainer so far. I will slowly build this system up. This did stretch my wallet some. LOL


    BTW warning I downloaded the new LR update and my laptop is totally screwed now on my Mac Book Pro. Might want to look into this but i will have to do a complete reinstall of my system when I get home on the laptop. I also cannot see thumbnails of my ZD files at the moment. i can get LR to work but have to reboot to do it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  33. #133
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,513
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Guy,
    Hate hearing that issue about LR.....we gotta get you using SuperDuper and carrying a clone drive along just for these "emergencies" ;-)

    On the ZD front.....I am so glad to hear the comments from you and Jack. It does look like an incredible entry point system for sure, but one that you can grow also. Again, I was just ribbing you about the Hassy and Sinar stuff, having been deeply immersed in that sort of study and research....plus having Marc keep pushing that bar all the time ;-) (He is a great "bad" influence!!)

    And as David Klepacki mentioned, there is a Mamiya 28 out there someplace waiting for you ;-) (Yeah, that translates to about a 20mm on your ZD, but it may cost as much or more than your entire new rig!! Just thinking airplane cockpit shots w/MF.)

    Looking forward to progress reports as you continue to explore with this. Not sure I will be able to stay out too much longer myself.

    LJ

  34. #134
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    LJ looks like I dumped it entirely and than reloaded and it is back. Just need to plug serial number in. I just realized i had the old 1.4 installed that Adobe pulled so that may have been the issue.

    Anyway this may put you over the edge. certainly has me convinced. LOL

    First shot at ISO 100 at 4.5 with 80mm 2.8. Not even stopped down much.

    Than Jack is at 2.8 at ISO 200

    Okay need to get ready for the workshop than will shoot later today after we close the workshop with some folks that are staying until tomorrow so tonight will get more stuff up but so far it is a lot of fun. Man does this bring back MF memories. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  35. #135
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    I did do a little sharpening but the files can certainly handle it and still very film like. The Hassy system and others are great systems and fully loaded but yes the is a nice entry level into it and someday no question i will upgrade but at least i got a foot in the door now.

    BTW i deserve all the ribbing you guys can throw at me . I have been on the fence a long time and deserve it. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  36. #136
    Mitch Alland
    Guest

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Guy, enjoy your new toy — er, I mean camera.

    The detail of Jack's eye is indeed impressive, but it's no different than it's always been with film in comparing 35mm with MF: I remember some years ago on the old Compuserve Photo Forum Mike Johnston reported on a blind print comparison — I don't remember the print size — in which the MF prints made with fairly ordinary lenses always beat in terms of image quality the 35mm prints made with the best Leica lenses, even on the finest, slow films shot on the heaviest tripods. Nevertheless, while I understand your need — or is it desire? — for the Mamiya, I have to say (for the peace of mind of the rest of us, or at least for the tranquility of our wallets) that I have always liked the "35mm aesthetic. An example: a couple of years ago a friend shot the same series of shots with the Mamiya 7, I think it was, and the Leica M6 — in looking at the series, which had a river in it, we both consistently preferred the 35mm shots because they had more "bite".

    So, all I'm doing is elaborating on the obvious: to say that the better aesthetic choice could often be the "lower image quality" of film or sensors smaller than MF. Hell, having for the last two years intentionally shot only with small sensor cameras, I'm trying to come to terms with the "exquisite" look I'm getting with the D300 — a look that I've been trying to avoid with the small sensor cameras. The question is do I want to get a more exquisite look than the one in the picture below? (Please forgive me for posting a non-MF shot here).



    —Mitch/Bangkok
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

  37. #137
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Well Mitch the bite maybe more to do with the less amount of DR in 35mm and the small sensor compared to the MF systems. In MF in general the DR is larger which leads to looking more smooth in tonal range which is natural. i think the other reason also is the micro contrast is tighter gapped in MF compared to the more gritty ( lose term) 35mm. You know it still comes back to the old days no matter how we look at it bigger is better and it still reigns true in digital, I think that is just a fact . Not that one should prefer MF over 35mm at all . There just different and I agree 35mm does have a feel that many prefer. I do too in many ways. The MF digital systems just smooth things out more and does have a different feel to it. I still love my M8 files and that will not change. The D300 is really nice also and I am keeping that too in the kit. Terry shot all day with her's along side me with the MF and the files she will post later will really show it's stuff.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  38. #138
    Mitch Alland
    Guest

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Guy, we're really saying the same thing but with film I don't think that MF gives greater DR; it's just that with the much greater film area the tonal transition, or gradation, is much smoother, with the rougher gradation of 35mm giving it's "bite".

    —Mitch/Bangkok
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

  39. #139
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Exactly and I think that is the real difference. I should probably not compared it to film per say,because folks think of that as a comparison between the two. Really I should have said it resembles more like film but it is not like film. Hope that made sense.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  40. #140
    Mitch Alland
    Guest

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Heh, heh. If it walks like film and quacks like film, it's...

    —Mitch/Bangkok
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

  41. #141
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    I think Jack and Guy getting involved with MFD via the ZD illustrates the positive side of the "Changing landscape."

    Basically, as I see it, Mamiya filled the vacuum left in the market when Kodak abandoned making digital backs (undercutting their digital sensor customers wasn't a great idea)... except that Mamiya has gone Kodak one better ... 22 megs in a rectangular format at a lower price point.

    It's not a "do it all" system, nor is that required by either Jack or Guy. The ZD takes it's place in their overall kit in the same manner MF would have with film, and will be application specific if I don't miss my guess.

    Assuming they both got the 645 AFD-II, the range of lenses available to them has exploded ... Mamiya makes a number of excellent lenses including some select optics made prior to the "digital" offerings now coming on line ... and all the Zeiss V lenses are available for use with that camera/back ... (this may be a dangerous option for a gear slut like Guy ... LOL !) I can tell you from personal experience that 22 megs seems perfect for many of the legacy V lenses ... something about the resolving power meshing with the pixel pitch just right.

    Complete set up, for less than a Canon 1DsMKIII body ... which cannot compete when it comes to IQ. Not bad, not bad at all.

  42. #142
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Indeed - a slippery slope MFD is...

    oh and as a friendly aside...the detail in Jack's handsome face shows that the focal point was on the eyebrows not the eye...

    higher resolution has costs as well as benefits.

  43. #143
    Subscriber Member KurtKamka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,232
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    26

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    I am so glad I haven't been actively reading any of these threads.

    Kurt

  44. #144
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post

    It's not a "do it all" system, nor is that required by either Jack or Guy. The ZD takes it's place in their overall kit in the same manner MF would have with film, and will be application specific if I don't miss my guess.
    That about sums it up for me. Gives me significantly more detail for my landscape work than any Canon, Nikon or Leica DSLR body could at around the same cost.

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  45. #145
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    For 13k for 3 or 4 lenses it's almost a no brainer too. Ray is coming over this week to shoot it against the D3 in the studio on the handguns that he makes. Even with the 80mm it should do a excellent job. I figured it this way when i bought it a couple jobs and it's paid for, flat out. That is a decent ROI for me. If and when they come out with a replacement how much i may lose is very little to upgrade. The back alone new is 7K which is nothing for MF. But it is not a canon nor a Nikon either and will NOT keep up in any way when it comes to speed. It has a DMR size LCD and takes 4 seconds to see a review image. But for most uses it will be perfect. Not everyday you get a 13x17 300 dpi native file for this cost
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  46. #146
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by KurtKamka View Post
    I am so glad I haven't been actively reading any of these threads.

    Kurt
    What threads?

    Just this guy you know

  47. #147
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    I think Charlie's photo says it all
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  48. #148
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    N.S. Canada
    Posts
    2,010
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    As an aside - downloaded the soft copy of the Jan-Feb 08 issue of Photo Techniques for the "Battle of The Digital Giants" article comparing 1Ds2 to an H3D-39, H2D w/P45+ and Linhof 679CS w/ P45+. Great read for those that haven't seen it.

    Slippery slope indeed.

  49. #149
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Reykjavik, Iceland
    Posts
    2,310
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    9

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    Can you give a brief summary for people who haven't read it?

  50. #150
    Administrator Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Prescott, Arizona
    Posts
    4,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    367

    Re: The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

    I feel one foot sliding already....
    But I was looking dreamily at a Leaf back, now at this price point do I have a real excuse?
    -bob

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •