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Thread: Well, it's official....

  1. #1
    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Well, it's official....

    I just heard back from Jack, Guy, and Don.

    It's official. Guy is about one-inch taller than me.



    Congratulations on your new Phase P40+ Guy!

    Hope to see you in Carmel!

    ken

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    Re: Well, it's official....

    That's great... but do you have the official outfits too. I think those are the colors of the Italian Flag (Maybe I'll get lucky and Guy will be too busy testing to see this post.)

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    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    "Guy is about one-inch taller than me."

    He used to be taller, but he's x thousand dollars lighter now so he stands straighter. If he'd bought a P65+, he'd be even taller now.

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    Workshop Member Woody Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Ken - the houseoflanscape link in you signature appears to be broken.

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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Campbell View Post
    Ken - the houseoflanscape link in you signature appears to be broken.
    Missing the ".com".

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Thanks, Woody. Fixed!

    Pretty funny, David---you must have been saving that image for months waiting for the right moment.

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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Thanks, Woody. Fixed!

    Pretty funny, David---you must have been saving that image for months waiting for the right moment.
    Actually I took it a few weeks ago down in WPB (over the objection of my shooting buddy Roger) who told me I was violating the etiquette of street shooters. I'm right there with you guys in the NBA height challenged class and when I walk down the street with Jack and Guy I try to walk next to Guy

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    It's official Don is taller than Jack. Heading home from Bisbee
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    David did you steal that outfit out of my closet. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    It was a fun day!

    Too funny - Guy was up hill the entire time we were in Bisbee
    Don Libby
    Iron Creek Photography
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    We short guys are smart enough to stand on high-ground!

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Yea trying to avoid the bad wind from the taller guys. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Hey Guy – I’m interested in how the images turned out from the X1. Just found out it had/has a flash! Way cool little camera…

    Don
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Congrats Guy!

    I'm as excited as you even though I'm not getting the P40+ because I've just got news that my 645DF is here and can be delivered any time now. Whoopie...

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Henry congrats . We just had a DF demo and I really liked the new body. Looking forward to getting mine and glad to hear someone is getting them.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    I just heard back from Jack, Guy, and Don.

    It's official. Guy is about one-inch taller than me.



    Congratulations on your new Phase P40+ Guy!

    Hope to see you in Carmel!

    ken
    Yea Don is just a little taller than me.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Camera porn warning. Not for corporate surfing. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Creek View Post
    Hey Guy Im interested in how the images turned out from the X1. Just found out it had/has a flash! Way cool little camera

    Don
    Here Don and thanks for taking the time to play around with the X1 for us

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showth...293#post164293
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Guy, we all appreciate your efforts! But please, would you at least pretend that you don't have fun using cameras I'm unable to afford? You make my M8 very sad...

  20. #20
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    LOL I know , yesterday Jack and I where driving south to Bisbee and the thought of having well over a hundred grand in gear was both funny and really scary at the same time. I need to get back to my normal life and just feel like a poor working Pro. LOL

    Much safer
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Yea you can return the Brinks truck now as well.

    Okay were off to the snowy and very cold So Rim for the next week got a camera I could borrow?
    Don Libby
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  22. #22
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Camera porn warning. Not for corporate surfing. LOL
    Wondered what the comparison was
    Oh
    well, yes, I see...
    ....the Leica's is definitely LONGER

  23. #23
    Member markowich's Avatar
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    so friends, where is the S2 review? looking forward...
    peter

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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Still working on it
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Member markowich's Avatar
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Still working on it
    no intermediate results---))))???

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Sorry Peter like fine wine we have to let it age. I would not take your name off a list though. It's a fine cam but it needs to age also. Seriously though we just finished shooting it yesterday and we are actually writing the review already just no one can see it except the mods. I shot it mostly and it does have a nice feel to it and the image quality is there but like anything else there are some niggles as well. Now i know buying a P40+ back in the middle of a review looks a little strange but It was something I was going to do anyway and had no bearing on the S2. I needed it this year and I can't jump in on only 2 lenses in the system, so something for me to look at next year and see what comes up. I will admit I did have a conversation with myself while testing the S2, It is a fine cam and IQ is very good.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Member markowich's Avatar
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Still working on it
    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Sorry Peter like fine wine we have to let it age. I would not take your name off a list though. It's a fine cam but it needs to age also. Seriously though we just finished shooting it yesterday and we are actually writing the review already just no one can see it except the mods. I shot it mostly and it does have a nice feel to it and the image quality is there but like anything else there are some niggles as well. Now i know buying a P40+ back in the middle of a review looks a little strange but It was something I was going to do anyway and had no bearing on the S2. I needed it this year and I can't jump in on only 2 lenses in the system, so something for me to look at next year and see what comes up. I will admit I did have a conversation with myself while testing the S2, It is a fine cam and IQ is very good.
    well, am not in a hurry either. my P65+ does a great job...thanks p

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Your P65 rocks the house bud. Jack had his here during the test and it is one sweet back. I'm just looking at the noise test with my P40+ and blown away at sensor plus. ISO 1600 is killer and even my 800 full Res is amazingly good.
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Okay here is Sensor Plus on the P40 which is identical to the P65 only a smaller file of course. ISO 1600 with C1 defaults. Shot under tungsten with a little daylight coming in. Frankly this right here threw any Canon , Nikon idea's of purchase right out the window. I simply do NOT need a DSLR if I can do this. This completely solves my problems that i have had with MF and with the smaller files to boot which i want for extremely fast processing for event work.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Okay here is Sensor Plus on the P40 which is identical to the P65 only a smaller file of course. ISO 1600 with C1 defaults. Shot under tungsten with a little daylight coming in. Frankly this right here threw any Canon , Nikon idea's of purchase right out the window. I simply do NOT need a DSLR if I can do this. This completely solves my problems that i have had with MF and with the smaller files to boot which i want for extremely fast processing for event work.
    guy, how is iso 800-1250 on the S2 compared to P40 with pinning?
    peter

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Quote Originally Posted by markowich View Post
    guy, how is iso 800-1250 on the S2 compared to P40 with pinning?
    peter
    You'll see it in our review AND get the raws to play around with for yourself, but the initial answer is this:

    1) the S2 is better at ISO 640 than the P40+ (P65+) is at ISO 800 full-frame;

    2) the S2 at 1250 is worse than the P40+ (P65+) at ISO 800 full-frame;

    3) the P40+ or P65+ binned at 800 is better than the S2 at 640 and maybe equal to the S2 at 320;

    4) the P40+ or P65+ binned at 1600 is still a bit better than the S2 even at 640.

    5) the P40+ or P65+ at 3200 binned and the S2 at 1250 are pretty comparable.

    HOWEVER, I have not experimented with downsampling the S2 files yet to compare them to the binned Phase files, and that will undoubtedly level the playing field somewhat...
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Not close . Binning is really good even my 800 binned is much better than my regular 800. I need to look at it more but I only looked in C1 . LR might be a different story. ISO 640 on the S2 looks okay but in LR it maybe even better . Issue is none of the programs are ready for the S2 so right now hard to guess how it will be with a better C1 profile and LR out of beta. I also need to process all this stuff out and than try also in LR. But we will have ALL the Raws for you on noise to check it out for sure.
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Jack and I posted same time but both answers are about right. Okay off to a paying shoot with the P40 . But you will get the raws for sure and you can see what we mean. Both camera's in reality are nothing to sneeze at.
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    Member markowich's Avatar
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    You'll see it in our review AND get the raws to play around with for yourself, but the initial answer is this:

    1) the S2 is better at ISO 640 than the P40+ (P65+) is at ISO 800 full-frame;

    2) the S2 at 1250 is worse than the P40+ (P65+) at ISO 800 full-frame;

    3) the P40+ or P65+ binned at 800 is better than the S2 at 640 and maybe equal to the S2 at 320;

    4) the P40+ or P65+ binned at 1600 is still a bit better than the S2 even at 640.

    5) the P40+ or P65+ at 3200 binned and the S2 at 1250 are pretty comparable.

    HOWEVER, I have not experimented with downsampling the S2 files yet to compare them to the binned Phase files, and that will undoubtedly level the playing field somewhat...
    jack&guy,
    thank you for your excellent work and forthcoming attitude.
    peter

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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Quote Originally Posted by markowich View Post
    jack&guy,
    thank you for your excellent work and forthcoming attitude.
    peter
    your results confirm that leica made a serious mistake not to allow for pixel pinning in the S2. i hope that hasselblad is not goung to do likewise in the H4.
    peter

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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Curious whether using the binning feature results in a loss elsewhere, i.e. is there a tradeoff other than file size.

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    Re: Well, it's official....

    David besides the smaller file obviously I am not picking anything up visually to say it lost something in other area's . DR and tonal range appear to be the same which is the area I thought the loss would be. The neat factor here is you get all the nice look of MF in a smaller package but nice noise improvement in the high ISO's. Maybe Doug can give us some more details on Sensor Plus that may shed more light on it.
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Curious whether using the binning feature results in a loss elsewhere, i.e. is there a tradeoff other than file size.
    On the contrary, activating the binning gains two stops of native ISO response and a slightly higher per-pixel sharpness. So you drop resolution (rather dramatically), but gain in just about every other category.

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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    On the contrary, activating the binning gains two stops of native ISO response and a slightly higher per-pixel sharpness. So you drop resolution (rather dramatically), but gain in just about every other category.
    Agreed. With my P65+ binned at ISO 1600, I feel I am getting a better-detailed file than my 1Ds3 delivers at ISO 800. I am guessing that is a result of the 1Ds3's AA filter killing some detail, but then it may also have something to do with the added tonal range of the P back...
    Jack
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Although I think pinning is an interesting solution to some MFD problems, I'm also interested to see how it compares to simply downsampling with an equiv. file of the same scene without pinning. Pinning seems a great option to have in a pinch but I guess I would never make use of the feature as my shooting is 99% between 100-200ISO, and occasionally at 400ISO. I'd rather have the full res file and spend the time massaging it to make use of the full pixel count if that makes any sense?

    Looking forward to the full review. It seems reading between the lines above that you guys genuinely like the S2 but for a few faults and that reassures me the system could have a good future providing enough people get on board.

  41. #41
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Well it has a lot of check marks to hit after the purchase as well and than all the backup stuff that goes along with it all. But yes generally speaking it looks fairly good so far. Real issue is the raw processors handling the files properly.
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    Although I think pinning is an interesting solution to some MFD problems, I'm also interested to see how it compares to simply downsampling with an equiv. file of the same scene without pinning. Pinning seems a great option to have in a pinch but I guess I would never make use of the feature as my shooting is 99% between 100-200ISO, and occasionally at 400ISO. I'd rather have the full res file and spend the time massaging it to make use of the full pixel count if that makes any sense?
    .

    See http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12403, I think at ISO 800 I would still prefer the full sized P65 file compared to the binned one. As long as I print large. If I stay in the range where the binned resolution is enough it has some benefits. If you want any specififc larger crops just let me know.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    For me I want the actually smaller size when I use the binning because usually in my case it is process 800 images for a show, so 3 or 4 seconds to process is huge in my case for time saving. BTW I'm like 9.5 x12.5 300 dpi with the the binning on the P40+ which is pretty good. But I agree having that ISO 800 at full res has some real power in it. Honestly I never go over 1600 anyway so this seems like it will work out great for me.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Yes that is the main point I tried to make and will do once I am back home and have access to a printer. Up until a certain point a ISO 800 binned file or DSLR file, will look a LOT better than a full res. P65 file, however once there is a certain print size reached the full res. P65 file will beat the other options.

    Without being able to actual print I would say that size is around 20x30in.

  45. #45
    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Guy & Jack, first of all thank you for all the work you did & do for us all - I know it's tough to have about 100K of equipment to play with seriously, review work is a PITA so a big THANK YOU!

    One question for you guys, did you have a D3 available around for some high ISO comparison between the Nikon & the P40/P65 in high ISO mode? That would be really interesting for me (and - together with the new DF body - seriously dangerous, too!) in that I might be able to drop my Nikon gear altogether and go for an all-MF solution. Any thoughts on how these might compare? Thank you in advance!
    Vieri Bottazzini
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Hi Vieri:

    We did not use any DLSR's in the test of the S2 -- High ISO noise comparisons between DSLR's and MF cameras is its own subject. And when it's done, one will have to compare overall color rendition at the same time.
    Jack
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  47. #47
    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: Well, it's official....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Hi Vieri:

    We did not use any DLSR's in the test of the S2 -- High ISO noise comparisons between DSLR's and MF cameras is its own subject. And when it's done, one will have to compare overall color rendition at the same time.
    Hi Jack, thank you very much for the explanation. Of course comparing such different sensors is something else altogether, and I sorta knew you wold just do a Pxx vs S2 test - I was just wondering if you had a D3/D700 at hand as well and if you did (out of curiosity) some comparison, even informal, or if you have any feeling re: the results of the P65+ at high ISO vs the Nikons out of using both, even if at different times. I will have to do this myself if & when I will have a P65+ available for trial here - which I am not sure will ever happen in my local
    Vieri Bottazzini
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