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Thread: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

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    Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    My upgrade came was delivered today. My initial impression is the improvement over the 645AF is significant.

    The AF is much faster and so the lag is much shorter. The tactile feedback on all the buttons is certainly very welcomed.

    What I like most of all is the more accurate focus that I'm seeing. Wide open shots of a target that I have shows sharper images. As the 645DF has the option to set AF as "accurate" or "faster", I opted for accurate. however, I could not discern the supposedly slower AF speed when using this option. I'm leaving mine on accurate. I also found the audio beep feedback to be louder so when AF is achieved, I hear it distinctly, even when using MF.

    Overall, I would not hesitate to fork out the $1500 to upgrade from 645AF to this new body.

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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    You lucky ******! I'm still waiting....

    But I'm having dinner with Phase's Vice President US tomorrow so maybe I'll apply a little alcohol and a lot of pressure....or maybe the other way around!

    Thanks for your comments, Henry - always useful to hear other's views.
    Bill

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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    NOw with your first impression you make me really wish I could keep my upgrade but I unfortunately will have to sale my AF III and upgrade path to the DF, I'm really afraid that if I end it up purchasing the upgrade, I might not want to let go of the DF body

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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Caulfeild-Browne View Post
    You lucky ******! I'm still waiting....

    But I'm having dinner with Phase's Vice President US tomorrow so maybe I'll apply a little alcohol and a lot of pressure....or maybe the other way around!

    Thanks for your comments, Henry - always useful to hear other's views.
    Bill
    Hi Bill.

    You should drown him in alcohol if he says NO

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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Just realized that my original post says CAME instaed of CAMERA.. sorry can't edit it now.

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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Got word they are shipping next week. But not sure what dealers are getting them first or amounts. I got a invoice though. LOL

    But I don't have to pay until it ships but a invoice is a good sign they are coming.
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    Workshop Member Wayne Fox's Avatar
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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Goh View Post
    My upgrade came was delivered today.
    I've had mine since PODAS, just wondering if the shipping ones have the firmware update that allows you to see the camera settings on the back (only works for p65+ and p40+ I believe).

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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    If is of help to anyone, I have extracted the Custom Function page here:



    There should be another option for Li-Ion battery under C-04 setting in the final manual as this will be used for the vertical grip.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    So Henry,

    Can you explain #13 and #97? They make no sense to me...
    Jack
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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Jack,

    I have no idea because I do not use most of these functions at all. I think C-13 has to do with the M-mode. By pushing the one shift function when in M setting, you can have the camera change either speed or aperture from what is on the camera to the metered value without physically turning knobs.

    What is obvious in this table is the much reduced number of functions since there is no support for film on the DF.

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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Goh View Post
    Jack,

    I have no idea because I do not use most of these functions at all. I think C-13 has to do with the M-mode. By pushing the one shift function when in M setting, you can have the camera change either speed or aperture from what is on the camera to the metered value without physically turning knobs.

    What is obvious in this table is the much reduced number of functions since there is no support for film on the DF.
    Okay, read the manual and now it makes sense, and is actually a very cool feature. By pressing and holding the AEL button when in M mode, a sort of automated manual metering kicks in and sets the metered value instantly, allowing you to adjust up or down from there as your desire suits -- I like it!
    Jack
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Is there still no rear focus button. I know RTFM but can I cheat for once. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    The new manual is in typical poorly worded translation, so it remains unclear. For sure we can swap the AFL and the AEL buttons front and rear, so we can move AFL to the rear, but what we don't know for sure is if one of the CF 12 options focuses before it locks. My guess is it will be the same as the current AFD3 body, sorry...
    Jack
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    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    The new manual is in typical poorly worded translation, so it remains unclear. For sure we can swap the AFL and the AEL buttons front and rear, so we can move AFL to the rear, but what we don't know for sure is if one of the CF 12 options focuses before it locks. My guess is it will be the same as the current AFD3 body, sorry...
    With the P1 645 AF I am not sure what I did to the settings but I use the back button for focussing AND locking; once focussed, I recompose & fire the shutter without the focus starting again... it seems to work well. I hope the new DF will allow me to do the same...
    Vieri Bottazzini
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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Quote Originally Posted by vieri View Post
    With the P1 645 AF I am not sure what I did to the settings but I use the back button for focussing AND locking; once focussed, I recompose & fire the shutter without the focus starting again... it seems to work well. I hope the new DF will allow me to do the same...

    Yes, the AFD1 and AFD2 DID allow for setting the rear button for AF, and disabling the half-press shutter AF. However, that option went away in the AFD3 -- though you can get AF from the rear button, a half press of the shutter will refocus with no way to deactivate that. So most of us were screaming to get it back the old way, and why we hope for it in the DF body...
    Jack
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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Yes, the AFD1 and AFD2 DID allow for setting the rear button for AF, and disabling the half-press shutter AF. However, that option went away in the AFD3 -- though you can get AF from the rear button, a half press of the shutter will refocus with no way to deactivate that. So most of us were screaming to get it back the old way, and why we hope for it in the DF body...
    Jack, while it is most definitely true that focussing via the rear button, leaving it and pressing the shutter will re-start focussing, are you sure that the AFD3 will re-focus even if you keep pressing the rear button while half-pressing the shutter? I am under the impression that mine will keep focus locked as long as I keep pressing the the rear button, even if I press the shutter button to take a picture, but then again I might be wrong

    In any case, I sure would love to have a Nikon D-series behavior for the rear button implemented on the 645 DF - and, a larger rear button too, while we are at it
    Vieri Bottazzini
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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Quote Originally Posted by vieri View Post
    Jack, while it is most definitely true that focussing via the rear button, leaving it and pressing the shutter will re-start focussing, are you sure that the AFD3 will re-focus even if you keep pressing the rear button while half-pressing the shutter? I am under the impression that mine will keep focus locked as long as I keep pressing the the rear button, even if I press the shutter button to take a picture, but then again I might be wrong
    It may, but that is a stupid way to have it. Bottom line, what we want with rear button focus is to have it focus while pressed and stopped if not pressed, all without having the shutter button change focus when we press it to fire.
    Jack
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    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    It may, but that is a stupid way to have it. Bottom line, what we want with rear button focus is to have it focus while pressed and stopped if not pressed, all without having the shutter button change focus when we press it to fire.
    Completely agree. The best solution is IMO the Nikon D-series: assign AF-ON to the rear button, and be done with it I think that, even if the 645 DF will not be delivered with such a setup, it will be possible to offer this option with a FW upgrade - if we are vocal enough, they might listen...
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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Well, I gotta stop complaining - my new gear arrived today; the DF, 80 LS lens and P65+. The only trouble is - no instructions, though most everything is obvious after using the AFD III and the P45+. My dealer explained/demonstrated a lot but I missed a couple of items.

    Thanks for the CF list, Henry - very useful. I'll talk to my dealer tomorrow about complete instructions, because I understand that you can set the CFs on the camera back, in full color with understandable abbreviations, if you're using the P40+ or the P65+. But for the life of me, I can't figure out how! Can anyone enlighten me?

    Anybody know if full instructions (Back and camera) can be downloaded?

    So far I have not been able to shoot anything seriously because it was dark when I got home, but I can tell that there is essentially no shutter lag at all.

    Bill

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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Bill:

    I think the whole setting the DF body from the P40/65+ backs needs a firmware update before being implemented.
    Jack
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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    The new manual is in typical poorly worded translation, so it remains unclear. For sure we can swap the AFL and the AEL buttons front and rear, so we can move AFL to the rear, but what we don't know for sure is if one of the CF 12 options focuses before it locks. My guess is it will be the same as the current AFD3 body, sorry...
    Please excuse me if I misunderstand what you are saying. I've been using the DF body for a while now.

    With the DF body, you can set either the front or rear button to AF. I tried the rear button, but do not like the ergonomics of it, so I use the front button, and actually like that choice better. (that's the default).

    You can also disable the shutter release from focusing. Once you've done this, pressing the AFL button will then focus the camera for you, not just lock the focus in place.

    This is something I could never figure out how to do with the AFD3 body ... now I know why. It didn't do it.

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    Workshop Member Wayne Fox's Avatar
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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Bill:

    I think the whole setting the DF body from the P40/65+ backs needs a firmware update before being implemented.
    That's too bad. I know Michael Reichmann was using this feature on a camera at PODAS , so I assumed they would get this implemented before shipping.

    Unfortunately the only way to do a firmware update is shipping the body back. They are designing a grip/battery replacement that if you happen to own will allow updating your own firmware, but this is a ways out.

    This would mean all DF owners would have to ship their bodies back to PhaseOne to get this really useful firmware upgrade. I guess it just wasn't ready for prime time and they just couldn't delay shipping any longer.

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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Fox View Post
    You can also disable the shutter release from focusing. Once you've done this, pressing the AFL button will then focus the camera for you, not just lock the focus in place.
    Wayne, that's awesome news! But how do you disable the shutter focus?
    Jack
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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Yes, Wayne, it was Michael who told me about the settings via the back - and I suspect you're right about the firmware. I'd have thought that all backs being shipped now should have had the latest installed.

    I'll talk with my dealer tomorrow and report back!

    Now, another question. The Configuration Menus incldes a screen "Camera Mode", with choice of Normal, Mode 1 and Mode 2. What are these?

    Bill

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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Fox View Post
    That's too bad. I know Michael Reichmann was using this feature on a camera at PODAS , so I assumed they would get this implemented before shipping.

    Unfortunately the only way to do a firmware update is shipping the body back. They are designing a grip/battery replacement that if you happen to own will allow updating your own firmware, but this is a ways out.

    This would mean all DF owners would have to ship their bodies back to PhaseOne to get this really useful firmware upgrade. I guess it just wasn't ready for prime time and they just couldn't delay shipping any longer.
    Mind you, that is only what I've heard -- I don't have my DF body yet so I don't know for sure. Maybe Bill can confirm when he gets his working.
    Jack
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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Caulfeild-Browne View Post
    Yes, Wayne, it was Michael who told me about the settings via the back - and I suspect you're right about the firmware. I'd have thought that all backs being shipped now should have had the latest installed.

    I'll talk with my dealer tomorrow and report back!

    Now, another question. The Configuration Menus incldes a screen "Camera Mode", with choice of Normal, Mode 1 and Mode 2. What are these?

    Bill
    I had to ask too -- Normal is normal, Mode 1 is if you're using Rollei electro shutters and Mode 2 is if you are the Air Force and connecting the back to an aerial camera (seriously )
    Jack
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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Wow!
    Thanks Jack - I guess I'll leave it at Normal!
    Bill

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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Wayne, that's awesome news! But how do you disable the shutter focus?
    Set Custom Function 10 to 2. Not sure why it isn't on the sheet.

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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Fox View Post
    Set Custom Function 10 to 2. Not sure why it isn't on the sheet.
    Okay, that explains it -- very cool news and thanks for clarifying! So now we do have what we had back with the AFD2 body
    Jack
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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Paid for mine today . Hopefully Monday in hand. But I am feeling very guilty I went ahead of Jack and Bob. I have a gig that I really need this for. I will be paying for this one for a long time. Steaks , Hendriks , Kettle One my Johnny Walker Blue label.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Paid for mine today . Hopefully Monday in hand. But I am feeling very guilty I went ahead of Jack and Bob. I have a gig that I really need this for. I will be paying for this one for a long time. Steaks , Hendriks , Kettle One my Johnny Walker Blue label.
    Well let's see -- a case of Hendricks, a Bottle of Johnny Blue and two or three steak dinners and I just may forgive you...
    Jack
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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Well let's see -- a case of Hendricks, a Bottle of Johnny Blue and two or three steak dinners and I just may forgive you...
    And where is my cut?

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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Paid for mine today . Hopefully Monday in hand. But I am feeling very guilty I went ahead of Jack and Bob. I have a gig that I really need this for. I will be paying for this one for a long time. Steaks , Hendriks , Kettle One my Johnny Walker Blue label.
    Guy, you must get over these feelings of guilt - it's a dog eat dog world out there and if you've got the first bite in then you probably deserve to be the top dog.

    After all, I'm ahead of most of you getting my DF and as I sit there looking at my shiny new kit, I don't feel the slightest twinge of guilt. And I'm savoring a nice single malt this evening as well. (I was at Ruth's Chris for a great steak last night too - and I don't feel guilty about that either.)

    So either get therapy or just play the part of the soon-to-be Alpha male DF owner....
    (It's a shame we live so far apart or we could get together for a shoot on Monday and invite Jack and Bob to come and watch.)

    Bill

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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Caulfeild-Browne View Post
    Guy, you must get over these feelings of guilt - it's a dog eat dog world out there and if you've got the first bite in then you probably deserve to be the top dog.

    After all, I'm ahead of most of you getting my DF and as I sit there looking at my shiny new kit, I don't feel the slightest twinge of guilt. And I'm savoring a nice single malt this evening as well. (I was at Ruth's Chris for a great steak last night too - and I don't feel guilty about that either.)

    So either get therapy or just play the part of the soon-to-be Alpha male DF owner....
    (It's a shame we live so far apart or we could get together for a shoot on Monday and invite Jack and Bob to come and watch.)

    Bill
    It is because Jack and I let him
    oh, and we have no time to watch, we are too busy doing....

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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    LOL Yes Bob and Jack graciously let me jump in front but that does not mean I am off the hook for one second .This WILL cost me in the long run. LOL

    I just hope another shipment hits the docks soon
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Ha ha, I really wish I could keep my DF, since I know that by selling it, I'l miss been part of this crazy P1 shooting Gang , and btw for all those steak dinners I might have as well let you jump in front of me Guy, LOL

    But I truly hope we can organize that nice Las Vegas Work Shop once I reo-open KETCHFRAME, and have all the new BIG toys brought over so that I can properly be tough how to use them and have them for few days of fun before choosing so to do things right this time around, before spending 50K on a system!!

    BTW, I'm sure you guys know that Vegas has some really mean Steak houses..

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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    MINE JUST SHOWED UP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    ONE word fast and I just can't feel the lag at all. I am going to run a shutter test tomorrow. And I need to figure out exactly some of the custom functions. Now I know many may not think much of this upgraded body but coming from a AFD,AFDII and a AFDIII this one sings and certainly worth every penny. All the niggles I had are gone. With the DF and the new P40+ i am one screaming happy camper. I am noticing a nice improvement in all area's
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    congrats, Guy. you deserve it

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    ONE word fast and I just can't feel the lag at all. I am going to run a shutter test tomorrow. And I need to figure out exactly some of the custom functions. Now I know many may not think much of this upgraded body but coming from a AFD,AFDII and a AFDIII this one sings and certainly worth every penny. All the niggles I had are gone. With the DF and the new P40+ i am one screaming happy camper. I am noticing a nice improvement in all area's
    Oh, okay... Rub it in, rub it in...


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  41. #41
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Guilt over and you know if I think about it I bought my system before you did.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  42. #42
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    congrats, Guy. you deserve it
    Thanks John it's taken some baby steps to get here but I think i hit the mark now. I will say though I did love my P25+ and P30+ so don't want to forget that at all. The bodies well let's just say I am glad the are behind me.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    MINE JUST SHOWED UP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Guy,

    enjoy it! It is in the best hands now !!!!!

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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Well Guy don't say I told you so.

    I think we can agree that it feels a lot more like a DSLR in so far as lag goes?

    I love this body and I'm sure you'll be enjoying yours too. Those of you on the fence about upgrading: don't wait - Just Do it.

    Congrats!

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Heck I went as far as buying a new tripod head for the new body and new back. I really am a gear slut. I need a lot of help. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    And I just ordered mine! A DF and P40+ to replace AFDII and p21+... PLus the 80mm and 55mm leaf lenses, too...!

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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Nice move Adam. You will love this combo. Being used to shooting fast with the P21 you won't miss a beat with the P40+ it is just as fast to shoot and the DF you will love. Adam if you go to the S2 review you will see a link to download raw files . There are a bunch of P40 shots in there you can download and play with to see what you just bought. You won't be sorry, it's a great back.

    BTW welcome to the forum.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Good news for the moment . Just ran a shutter speed test on the DF body from 1/125 to 1/4 of a second and I detect NO motion blur in any of the images. If many remember the AFDIII we had motion blur at shutter speeds 1/30 and worse at 1/15. Now I did this with a 150mm D lens and it may show up on a 300mm , so Bob's 300 is on it's way to me anyway so i will re run this test with it. But so far really good news here.

    From Memory Jack's theory was the film gate which on the DF is no longer there.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Good news for the moment . Just ran a shutter speed test on the DF body from 1/125 to 1/4 of a second and I detect NO motion blur in any of the images. If many remember the AFDIII we had motion blur at shutter speeds 1/30 and worse at 1/15. Now I did this with a 150mm D lens and it may show up on a 300mm , so Bob's 300 is on it's way to me anyway so i will re run this test with it. But so far really good news here.

    From Memory Jack's theory was the film gate which on the DF is no longer there.
    AWESOME!!! Exactly what I was hoping to hear. Speaking for me personally, this was the biggest nit of the AFD bodies, so glad to hear it might be solved or at least sounds far better controlled in the DF
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  50. #50
    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: Phaseone 645DF - got mine today

    Wonderful news Guy! Enjoy your new DF & P40+ combo, and thank you very much for posting your first impressions - I am really happy to hear about how fast it is, this sounds great and very promising for me on my route to MF-only. Now, if only P1 will deliver mine soon... my rep here told me it will not be before January, but we'll have a demo body here next week to play with. Not like the real thing, but a teaser is still better than nothing
    Vieri Bottazzini
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