Site Sponsors
Results 1 to 29 of 29

Thread: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

  1. #1
    David Rosenzweig
    Guest

    P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    I am trying to use the X-Rite ColorChecker Passport with a P65+/H2 camera and have not been able to get it to work. When the ColorChecker is photographed with a Nikon D3x or Canon 1Ds MKIII the profile is produced correctly.
    An email to X-Rite support did not help solve the problem.
    Has anyone been successful in producing a profile with a P65+ back?

    Thank you,
    David

  2. #2
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    If you use C1, the profiles they include for the Phase backs are excellent. If you're trying to use ACR or LR, you are (IMO) wasting image quality as ACR/LR simply doesn't do a good job with Phase 40+ or 65+ files.

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  3. #3
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Hollywood, FL
    Posts
    580
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    Quote Originally Posted by David Rosenzweig View Post
    I am trying to use the X-Rite ColorChecker Passport with a P65+/H2 camera and have not been able to get it to work. When the ColorChecker is photographed with a Nikon D3x or Canon 1Ds MKIII the profile is produced correctly.
    An email to X-Rite support did not help solve the problem.
    Has anyone been successful in producing a profile with a P65+ back?

    Thank you,
    David
    David,

    You could try to open the P65+ file in C1, and output a DNG. Drag the resulting DNG file into the standalone Color Checker Passport program. Then, if you are using LR for DAM and further editing after conversion, you should have a better DCR profile. You may want to check out Michal Reichmann's workflow. He uses a combination of C1 and LR pretty successfully.

    If you are trying to generate a profile for C1 for your P65+, the Color Checker Passport probably isn't going to work. You'll need an EyeOne XT or Profile Maker 5 package to generate ICC camera profiles.

    David
    David Farkas
    Leica Store Miami

  4. #4
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    Actually, the Passport will work fine in C1, but you'd use the Color Editor tool generate an ICC profile that you can save and call up later.
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Munich
    Posts
    876
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    For me the best way of working is CF card --> LR --> sort edit select --> Develop raw files to tiffs in C1 --> import in LR and finish the files

  6. #6
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    South of England
    Posts
    3,295
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    I speak as one frustrated by X-rite's rather rude 'customer service' but my understanding from them is that that the Passport and its associated software can produce only DNG profiles and not ICC profiles and therefore is not suitable for use in C1 unless somehow round tripped through LR or the Passport software. Sounds like Jack has a way to make this work in C1 though and I'd love to learn how to do it!

    quote from support email:

    'Sorry for misunderstanding,

    ICC profiles cannot be created with ColorChecker Passport, but with
    other X-Rite products.

    With i1 Xtreme ICC profiles can be created for monitors, beamers,
    scanners, digital cameras
    (ColorChecker SG needed) and printers.

    http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?ID=1240

    http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?ID=938

    Perhaps you could spend a second more in reading the product
    description, the comprehensive
    user manual and the related articles on the xritephoto website, where
    this is clearly stated.

    http://www.xritephoto.com/ph_product...&Action=Suppor
    t&SupportID=5118&catid=28

    And within the ColorChecker PASSPORT video is nothing stated otherwise.

    Regards,

    Wolfgang Renner '

  7. #7
    New Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Eden, Vermont
    Posts
    5
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    If you use C1, the profiles they include for the Phase backs are excellent. If you're trying to use ACR or LR, you are (IMO) wasting image quality as ACR/LR simply doesn't do a good job with Phase 40+ or 65+ files.

    Cheers,
    Jack: Could you clarify -- once a P-40+ RAW file is adjusted and processed in C1 with its native profile and then sent to LR as a TIFF for further editing, is there a problem, or do you just mean don't start in LR?

    Thanks,

    Lynn Noah (about to upgrade from P-21 to P-40+)

  8. #8
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    Don't start in LR, you want to start in C1 is the preferred method, save as a Tif or DNG than people bring into LR for other work. I don't normally work this way but some folks do and my guess is mostly for the cataloging and some feature sets in LR. I have the P40+ and in C1 the profiles for it are pretty much dead on the money. LR is basically dumb to the Phase files. I never get out of C1 except to CS4.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  9. #9
    David Rosenzweig
    Guest

    Re: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    I appreciate the replies....here's my concern...foregetting C1 for the moment....I would expect that using Lightroom and the X-Rite software that since the image imported into LR is converted to DNG that it should not matter what camera was used to produce the original image. What I don't yet understand is why the Color Checker software will process images from both Nikon and Canon cameras but not from the Phaseone P65+ back....I might be doing something wrong here and that's why I was looking to see if anyone with a P65+ back found that the ColorChecker software would process the image and produce the profile in LR.

  10. #10
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter, Fla.
    Posts
    1,967
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Perhaps you could spend a second more in reading the product
    description, the comprehensive
    user manual and the related articles on the xritephoto website, where
    this is clearly stated.
    Gotta love a company that responds to a customer inquiry with RTFM

  11. #11
    Subscriber and Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,791
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    Quote Originally Posted by David Rosenzweig View Post
    I appreciate the replies....here's my concern...foregetting C1 for the moment....I would expect that using Lightroom and the X-Rite software that since the image imported into LR is converted to DNG that it should not matter what camera was used to produce the original image. What I don't yet understand is why the Color Checker software will process images from both Nikon and Canon cameras but not from the Phaseone P65+ back....I might be doing something wrong here and that's why I was looking to see if anyone with a P65+ back found that the ColorChecker software would process the image and produce the profile in LR.
    Try DNG conversion with Adobe DNG converter then import to Colorchecker Passport software to develop DNG profile...then see if ACR can see the profile when a raw is opened. If so LR should also see the profile. This is the only way I can develop a DNG Profile with the Passport on an H3DII file at the present time that can be seen in ACR. It will process by the software if DNG is made by any other way but cannot open it in ACR or LR.


    It seems that the critical step is the DNG conversion from raw...why LR cannot open the raw to convert to DNG as Adobe DNG converter does is beyond me.

    Bob

  12. #12
    David Rosenzweig
    Guest

    Re: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    The conversion of the P65+ image to DNG format goes fine.....it's the failure of the ColorChecker Passport application to "digest" the DNG file that I haven't solved yet.....the ColorChecker program starts ok but eventually fails to "see" the pattern and create the profile.....again using the same work flow with images from a Canon or Nikon works well.....it's as if there is something in the P65+ file that even after the DNG conversion the ColorChecker software does not like.
    I did write to X-Rite but they did not provide a helpful answer.

  13. #13
    Subscriber and Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,791
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    Quote Originally Posted by David Rosenzweig View Post
    The conversion of the P65+ image to DNG format goes fine.....it's the failure of the ColorChecker Passport application to "digest" the DNG file that I haven't solved yet.....the ColorChecker program starts ok but eventually fails to "see" the pattern and create the profile.....again using the same work flow with images from a Canon or Nikon works well.....it's as if there is something in the P65+ file that even after the DNG conversion the ColorChecker software does not like.
    I did write to X-Rite but they did not provide a helpful answer.
    Is this DNG conversion with Adobe DNG Converter or LR?

    Bob

  14. #14
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    South of England
    Posts
    3,295
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Gotta love a company that responds to a customer inquiry with RTFM
    Believe me I was P***d especially because it was their own video instruction download that IMHO heavily implied that the Passport could be used to produce ICC profiles. Man.....

  15. #15
    Subscriber and Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,791
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    Quote Originally Posted by David Rosenzweig View Post
    The conversion of the P65+ image to DNG format goes fine.....it's the failure of the ColorChecker Passport application to "digest" the DNG file that I haven't solved yet.....the ColorChecker program starts ok but eventually fails to "see" the pattern and create the profile.....again using the same work flow with images from a Canon or Nikon works well.....it's as if there is something in the P65+ file that even after the DNG conversion the ColorChecker software does not like.
    I did write to X-Rite but they did not provide a helpful answer.
    David,

    Have you tried a Plus file binned at a somewhat smaller file size to test whether the software hangs on the large file size? Say 800 at lower resolution only to see if it will find the target?

    Bob

  16. #16
    Subscriber and Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,791
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Believe me I was P***d especially because it was their own video instruction download that IMHO heavily implied that the Passport could be used to produce ICC profiles. Man.....
    Yes,

    Kinda interesting that Adobe products do not use ICC profiles for cameras and one has to resort to 24 patches for a DNG profile.

    I purchased two CC Passports to do the same and ended up needing the large Colorchecker SG in order to do the ICC profiles with my i1extreme.

    Still a good product for those areas you can use it...nice little travel pack to keep from bending the target when carrying a lot of stuff.

    Bob

  17. #17
    David Rosenzweig
    Guest

    Re: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    Using a smaller file size seems to be the answer....setting the back to produce a 10mb file worked fine...thanks for the help here.

  18. #18
    Workshop Member Wayne Fox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Draper, Utah
    Posts
    871
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    134

    Re: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    For me the best way of working is CF card --> LR --> sort edit select --> Develop raw files to tiffs in C1 --> import in LR and finish the files
    I've been using a similar workflow with my p65+ most of the time. On a few shoots I've converted the entire shoot into dng with C1, then done everything in LR. Results have been good, haven't tried comparisons with same files in C1 to see if the conversions have significant differences.

    I'm just too dependent on the local adjustments and the interface.
    Last edited by Wayne Fox; 16th December 2009 at 14:52.

  19. #19
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Fox View Post

    I'm just too dependent on the local adjustments and the interface.
    You *really* owe it to yourself to try C1 start to finish, then try your local adjustments in LR or CS afterward. I am willing to bet once you do, you'll never go back to LR for your Phase files after that...
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    332
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    28

    Re: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    One of the reason I bought C1 pro was because I found it has about the best color out of the box. If I needed faithful colors, it is very easy to obtain by using the Color Editor. Once I started using C1 Pro, I dropped all my other efforts to color calibrate my cameras.

    Although I have not used Passport and its related software, I'm quite sure it won't produce better images for me out of my Canons and Nikons and especially so for my Phase back.

    Just my 2 cents..

  21. #21
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,274
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    7

    Re: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    You *really* owe it to yourself to try C1 start to finish, then try your local adjustments in LR or CS afterward. I am willing to bet once you do, you'll never go back to LR for your Phase files after that...
    Difference with daylight short (meaning less than a few seconds) exposures with base ISO is moderate and meaningful. Definitely worth your time to explore.

    Exposures in tungsten, mixed, or other non-daylight light, high ISO, or long exposures is huge and barely debatable.


    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
    __________________
    Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
    Phase One, Leaf, Cambo, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
    National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
    Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up
    RSS Feed: Subscribe
    Buy Capture One at 10% off

  22. #22
    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Rome, Italy
    Posts
    463
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    I have been using LR since its birth, and now with C1 5 Pro, I just don't think I will ever go back using LR again, only problem is that I'm really struggling in learning all the do and don't of C1 as there is really a terrible Training material on it, but other then that I can say that I have a true winner now with C1 5 Pro, and I would be very sorry to go back to LR3 just because I can't find in off training material for it.

    But other then that, I will absolutely make no comparisons as they are in deed different animals all together, and I now consider LR and or before Aperture as purely cataloging SW, but since I do have the CS4 I enjoy using Bridge for that.

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Munich
    Posts
    876
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    So far I would never use anything expect C1 for the step from RAW to TIFF, however for everything else I find LR still years a head of C1. Especially when LR will ship and get Softproofing.

  24. #24
    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Rome, Italy
    Posts
    463
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    Yes Chris, I do agree that LR is by far the best Cataloging, Web proofing, and Printing profiling of them all, but to me cataloging, and everything else comes always after getting the absolute best color match and IQ, and for this I love C1 eben so I absolutely have no idea how to use it I can only imagine what I can do with it once I learn its ins and outs, that is if I stay patient in off to wait and get some serious training on it, other wise I will just have to use it, for nothing else but importing the Raw files transfer to TIFF and export to a separate folder to then create and other import file in to LR, will see.

  25. #25
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    Bottom line I would NEVER process a Phase file in anything but C1, maybe raw developer but LR sucks with Phase files. After a DNG or Tif maybe for cataloging and some backend features but never to actually process the front end of the files. Honestly now I just finish with the S2 i just removed LR from my system this morning.

    Not to say LR is bad it just does not like Phase files at all to my liking
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  26. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Munich
    Posts
    876
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    Well here people are different, if LR would give me the same quality on phase files like LR 3.0 gives me with Canon files, C1 would be deleted from my system right away. In my eyes the program is still rubbish, when it comes to user interface and functions. I would throw myself of a building if I only had to use C1 and did not have LR to edit my converted raws. However as long as, C1 gives me the best raw to TIFF conversion I will use it.

    I think it just shows how different people are.

  27. #27
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    214
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    I agree, the user interface with C1 is not the greatest. It takes some time to learn, and is not very intuitive. But once you learn it, it kind of makes sense. I find that 90% of what I do can be done with the quick menu after I swap some of the panes around.

    Professionally, I almost always shoot tethered (I am an architectural photographer) and I have yet to find a better way to tether a P1 back to a computer than C1. IMHO, it's worth spending the time with, as it will become less awkward and the output with a phase back is simply stunning.

  28. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Munich
    Posts
    876
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    Well I'm not saying it makes no sense, and yes it takes time to learn it. (However, I'm teaching it from time to time so I think I know nearly everything about it) That does not mean that LR is so much better in many ways. Expect raw conversion quality. Could be interesting if Adobe even consider eliminating the center and quad folds with the newest phase back generation, or if they don't care.

  29. #29
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,383
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: P65+ and ColorChecker Passport

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Bottom line I would NEVER process a Phase file in anything but C1, maybe raw developer but LR sucks with Phase files. After a DNG or Tif maybe for cataloging and some backend features but never to actually process the front end of the files. Honestly now I just finish with the S2 i just removed LR from my system this morning.

    Not to say LR is bad it just does not like Phase files at all to my liking
    Guy, what do you use for browsing? Do you keyword?

    I too got frustrated with LR and use C1 for all raws. However, I use ACDSEE 3 and really like it. I have quad monitors and not even PS can handle. ACDSEE I can see 5300x3200 detail!

    Also great for random searches across about 2TB I keep on line. ACDSEE actially lists images thumbnails in folders on left for calendar.
    I find there then open BR and PS for final processing.
    for rough processing ACDSEE is great and you can get nice 'collection' set up way easier than LR (uses keyword, catagory, time and randon search (e.g. get all contax)

    ACDSEE has really come a LONG way

    Victor

    PS One shortfall; no phase raw-has everything else including M9, and color management, but somehow cant do Phase raw. so you need the C1 "develops".

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •