The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

645 DF flash sync... only 1/400th sec?

Dustbak

Member
Just tried the camera in the studio with Elinchrom studio lights and fastest sync is 1/320th with Skyports. So your 1/1000th is highly unrealistic, Guy!

I have no idea how Dustbak gets sync at 1/1000th... it's the delay in encoding then decoding the signal from thewireless transmitter that won't let it sync this high, claim both PW and ELinchrom. I met with Pocket Wizard people and ELinchrom people at the weekend, you see.

PW are going to look into it closely (and weren't even aware of the 1/1600th flash sync with the P40+).

And Elinchrom had a secret new product with them... and my pal is testing it for them right now on p40+/ Phase DF.
More news soon!
Read my text in which I never claimed 1/1000th. I can get to 1/800th which is the max my lenses can get to.

Not sure what those people tell you, I can only tell you it works for me without problems.

Just to show it is possible I have placed a screenshot from a raw file in Phocus. Look in the lower right corner to see at what shutter speed this image has been taken. It says 1/800. This image was done with the skyport on the Quadra and 2 SB800's with universal receivers.

http://www.pepperanddust.com/images/skyport.jpg

This is just one image, I have a lot more taken at shutter speeds in the /1500th & 1/800th range. It actually works so smoothly I never even gave it a thought it would not work.
 
Last edited:

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Just tried the camera in the studio with Elinchrom studio lights and fastest sync is 1/320th with Skyports. So your 1/1000th is highly unrealistic, Guy!

I have no idea how Dustbak gets sync at 1/1000th... it's the delay in encoding then decoding the signal from thewireless transmitter that won't let it sync this high, claim both PW and ELinchrom. I met with Pocket Wizard people and ELinchrom people at the weekend, you see.

PW are going to look into it closely (and weren't even aware of the 1/1600th flash sync with the P40+).

And Elinchrom had a secret new product with them... and my pal is testing it for them right now on p40+/ Phase DF.
More news soon!

I am only going by what Elinchrom quotes in there PDF. I don't have a LS to test it yet

EL-Skyport
EL-Skyport Transmitter 19351
This module controls basic functions of an Elinchrom RX unit to which a Transceiver RX 19353 is attached. To control all RX functions the USB Transceiver RX 19354 and the latest EL Skyport software is required, which also offers additional features such as “strobing”.
The Transmitter synchronises remote flash units, when each is fitted with either a “Universal” (fitting all flash brands) or the RX Transceiver (fitting Style RX, Digital RX and Ranger RX units). The RX Transceiver also provides control over the power and
i
modelling lamp of all Elinchrom RX flash units, directly from the Skyport Transmi
Features
t
t
.
.
+/- Buttons to change flash power settings of RX units and to switch modelling lamp on/off, without using a computer.
Action freezing sync speed of up to 1/1000 s.
Studio operating range is about 50 m and 120 m outdoors.
Includes Hotshoe with Sync socket.
Test button for manual flash trigger.
Interference free operation with 40 bit security.
Switch to select 8 frequency channels - for example between separate working areas.
Switch to select 4 workgroups - adjusting and synchronising individual units or groups.
Long life Lithium Battery providing 50.000 flashes or approximately 3 months lifetime.
The “All” switch controls all units in Workgroup 1-4.
The moveable antenna optimises reception and working distance.


http://www.elinchrom.com/data/download/el-skyport_en.pdf
 

adamduckworth

New member
Ah, I see, , Dustbak's pictures were actually on a Hassleblad, not a Phase One DF/ LS, P40+ combo. Hassleblad obviously has this nailed.. Phase Not.

Interesting to see how it works on that but not on Phase,. I have now tested it on Quadra A head, S head, both A and B port, Nikon SB800, Nikon SB900, Canon 580 Mk2, full-size Ranger AS packs and Elinchrom 600RX with both Pocket Wizard Plus II, Pocket Wizard Multimax and Skyport - both built-in (Quadra) and plug in (RX) and Universal.

All with the same result.
Waiting for Pocket Wiz and Skyport and Phase tech support...

It would be good to know if Cyber Sybc things work, though... or Profoto Air things...

Maybe we'll have an answer/ solution one day!

Adam
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Adam have you checked the DF custom functions . Just wondering if something is not on or set wrong. Obviously first thing comes to mind is second curtain but that is not the default either. Also I think the P40+ needs 4.8 firmware. Something just does not sound right. Have you tried using a hardwire sync.

Ooop's my bad you did have success hardwired. I'm baffled
 

Dustbak

Member
Yes, I use a Hasselblad or according to some people, a Hassleblad ;)

To me, it seems a problem with the body/back combination. Unless there is a difference in the communication between an US and an European version of the Elinchrom and PW.

I have always been told there is a difference in communication between those with PW (mainly frequencies). I cannot really imagine the way of communication and encryption being much different causing the US versions to be a lot slower.
 

Kai Birkigt

New member
Hi all,

this is my first posting here, I was reading since a longer while from time to time and got registered today because of this thread.

Allow me a short introduction of myself, it fits the thread I hope. Located in Munich, Germany and NYC I am shooting all around the world. In analog times with Contax/Zeiss later in the digital age with Nikon, I switched over to Canon (because of the full frame 5D, after this and still 1 Ds Mark III), got some 39MP-Hasselblad experience but eventually ended up with Phase One (first P45+ now P65+ since 09/2009). I do love MF and rarely I grab my 1 Ds for fast things only...

I got my DF with the 80mm LS lens on 15th of December (they told me it was the first one in Germany :angel: – maybe Europe?) and was thinking about "the flash radio sync speed problem" since some months ago. Asking my dealer and P1 in Denmark (before I got the DF) if there is a custom funktion which can help to put a delay of some 1/1000 s or so, they all answered no, it isn't.

I was concerned because of an easy calculation: Shooting on location (me often at beaches in the Caribbean with a lot of sun needing a lot of flash power...) means 2/1000 s delay time for the PW II to trigger my Profoto flashes. At 1/1600 shutter time, there is a time window of 1/8000 for the flash only. The AcuteB 600 R's shortest flash duration is 1/6800 s. I was afraid that the rest of the light ends up on illuminating the closed aperture... :(

Coming back from the States and the Caribbean some days ago I can tell that I did not have any problems up to 1/1600. I don't know why, but it simply works...

(I've got some other probs temporarily like the leaf shutter staying closed or a lost FW connection to the MacBook, but this is another thread's topic...).

Regards,
Kai
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Welcome Kai, and thanks for this information -- it sounds promising!
 

Henry Goh

Member
Can I ask you guys who are mor experienced:

I've been using Pocket Wizard Plus so I should be limited to 1/250s?? What if I bought a Multimax transmitter and trigger my Plus receivers. Will I get better sync speeds? How about the new TTL transmitters?
 

Kai Birkigt

New member
Welcome Kai, and thanks for this information -- it sounds promising!
Thank you Jack!

I will add an example here. It is an unretouched low quality JPG out of Capture One. It did not see Photoshop or anything else. The model was in the shadow (created by a big Sunswatter which you don't see here, held by two people).



The flash light came from the upper right corner (beauty dish; powered by a Profoto AcuteB 600R triggered via Pocketwizard II). In the IIQ file one can see the dish being reflected in her right eye...

1/1600
2.8
80 mm LS

I find the exposure pretty well-balanced. In the final retouched picture it was a little brighter.

If I oversaw something please let me know. I am happy with the result (of course in better image quality).

Kai
 

adamduckworth

New member
OK, here's my latest findings. I have now tried with Canon Mini and Flex Pocket Wizards at the suggestion of Pocket Wizard (who don't have the camera yet). I have only tried them with Elinchrom Quadra lights in both the fast and slow modes, both A and S head.

The Flex and Mini TTl give no advantages on a Phase One 645DF with leaf lenses, in fact they are worse/ slower than Multimax or Plus IIs. I know as I've spent days playing with all the combinations in a bid to get my Phase DF/ leaf lens/ P40+ back to sync wirelessly at high speed.

Yes, it has the latest firmware so works perfectly and syncs at up to 1/1600th if you hard wire.

With normal Skyport or Plus II, it syncs perfectly up to 1/400th. After that, if you use Multimax set to "Fast" it syncs up to 1/800th but you lose about a stop of light.

If you use the Canon Mini and Flex, you have to use the latest firmware and select "standard" triggering mode (or else it knows it's not on a Canon camera and refuses to fire). This standard triggering mode eliminates all the adjustable sync timing they have and puts them back to just like standard Plus IIs. In fact, worse than that. They only sync up to 1/320th at that.

I have been in contact with Pocket Wizard (the owner emailed me in fact) and I know the boss of Elinchrom who are also working on something, but nothing will sync a DF at higher than 1/400th wirelessly properly yet. Neither sounded optimistic.

The Cybersyncs are virtually the same delay as PW Multimax on Fast, but the Profoto is marginally faster.... but not by very much at all. This info came from Jim Clark of Pocket Wizard so I haven't tested it. But he knows his stuff and the eact timing delays of all his own and rival manufacturers as he's tested them.

Hope that helps
Adam
 
Last edited:

kdphotography

Well-known member
OK, here's my latest findings. I have now tried with Canon Mini and Flex Pocket Wizards at the suggestion of Pocket Wizard (who don't have the camera yet). .... (emph added)

After that, if you use Multimax set to "Fast" it syncs up to 1/800th but you lose about a stop of light. ....

The Cybersyncs are virtually the same delay as PW Multimax on Fast, but the Profoto is marginally faster.... but not by very much at all. This info came from Jim Clark of Pocket Wizard so I haven't tested it. But he knows his stuff and the eact timing delays of all his own and rival manufacturers as he's tested them.

Adam
I do love Pocket Wizard, but find it hard to believe a manufacturer handing out advice on the camera without having tested it out themselves.

The Multimax and PW II transceivers have different capabilities, and my read is that the Multimax is what Kai (above) actually used in setting a delay on the tranmitter. The Cybersync and PW have different flash synch capabilities---and different price points! I won't be leaving PWs, but if Cybersynch can provide a reliable and inexpensive option to wireless flash synch up to 1/1600, it will be a small investment that paid off well.

I'm still waiting for my 645DF to come in, but we should be able to test out flash synch capabilities at CI in Carmel in a few weeks...

ken
 
Top