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Does it still make sense to buy a H3D-22 now?

Makten

Well-known member
I went through the same set of considerations, and just bought a H3D-31. I got into MF digital with an amazing deal on an iXpress back for my 500C, but I had so many missed shots due to focus issues, that when the deal on the H came along it was a no-brainer. It is at the end of it's economic life for pros, but as an amateur, I don't care.

The fat pixel back on my V had a special look which I preferred, the 31 is still a CCD and gets files that look a bit like my old M9, but not as wonderful as the iXpress. Also, 22Mpix would have been enough. However, I have never seen a 22 back for sale in my budget, so that made the decision easy. On the upside, the 31 is one stop faster than the 22, and that makes a difference when using the camera outside of the studio. ISO 400 is fine, 800 could be used when in a pinch and being careful exposing. The lens choice is a bit less obvious than for the V series, because of the expense. I am therefore renting different lenses to figure out what works for me.

I have just started testing my new setup and so far I am happy with the choice I made.
I've also thought about a back for my 500 C/M, but just as you suggest, I doubt that the focus accuracy would be good enough. Especially since it's hard enough to get it right with film. Also, probably the old Planar lens is not really up to the task of using with a smallish sensor compared to true 56x56.

Since I would be using this camera in the same way as I do (or did) with film MF, I think the limited ISO performance won't be an issue. Got the a7 with a bunch of fast glass for those occasions. :eek:
Also, I'm one of those who love the files from oldish CCD cameras, such as the M8 or M9. There is just something special with the colors, that I don't see in modern cameras (at least no FF or smaller sensors). Probably partly because of the "high ISO race" and low noise priority before nicest possible colors, but that's just my guess.

Regarding lenses, I think I might want a ~50 mm to complement the 80/2.8. But OTOH I like to limit myself, so it all comes down to if I like the AOV of 80 mm enough.


I would say you are nuts: A Canon 5DmkIV or equivalent is a better camera in almost every technical metric. The "large sensor" doesn't really offer much benefit over smaller newer sensors.

That said, it is a good kind of nuts, and if you go in understanding it's a 10 year old camera, with all the drawbacks that implies, it can be fun. I chose Phase One when making the same decision last year, picking up an old P30, so that shows how much weight I put in the evaluation above.
Haha! Yes, I'm glad to be nuts in cases like this. :p I don't want a "better" camera than my a7, just different. And a 5D mkIV would almost be uninteresting even if I got it for free.
My only concern is if the handling – including PP – is just too bloody awkward. OTOH, I've developed slide film at home just for fun, for quite a while. And scanning film must be worse than anything, right? :grin:

I'm one of those guys that shoot like 10 frames on a day. I don't push the trigger before I know it will be an image that I'm happy with. If focus is correct and there is no unintentional motion blur, of course. So in that sense, even if these cameras are sloooow, I guess they would fit me and my intentions.

Now I just got to investigate if the price is right.
 

P. Chong

Well-known member
I was the original poster' and actually, I did buy one. A H3D-39, not long after the discussion. And I still have it. The camera still shoots awesome pictures like it always did. I shoot both the 39 Mp back as well as with the 645 film back.
 

dave.gt

Well-known member
I was the original poster' and actually, I did buy one. A H3D-39, not long after the discussion. And I still have it. The camera still shoots awesome pictures like it always did. I shoot both the 39 Mp back as well as with the 645 film back.
Awesome!! Thanks for the follow-up!!!:thumbup:
 

RobbieAB

Member
I guess I should elaborate a bit more...

Last year I asked myself the same question, and decided (partly on the back of a blog I was reading) to jump for a P30 with a Mamiya 645 AFDII body. I have since added the Mamiya 210mm APO lens, and the Mamiya 35mm lens. I don't shoot with it enough, but I love it. I really would love to get one (or more?) of the film backs for the body, but they seem to be pretty rare here in Europe, and my budget doesn't extend to paying trans-atlantic shipping costs plus import costs. The big drawback from my perspective to medium format digital is the lack of solid support for Linux. On Windows or Mac, certainly for Phase One, support is there in Capture One DB which is free, but only supports Phase One cameras. I would expect decent support from the Adobe software as well for cameras of this vintage, but that could just be my innocence regarding Adobe.

While I can agree with the sentiments regarding not being interested in a 5DmkIV, it is worth mentioning to people considering this option that a mid-high range FF camera from either Canon or Nikon, as well as the smaller formats from other vendors, is probably a better camera for most purposes. Not as much fun, in my opinion, but still better. I feel if people are dropping a couple of grand on a 10 year old camera, we should at least warn them what they are getting into. If they are doing this as a hobby and can afford it, we welcome them.
 

Makten

Well-known member
While I can agree with the sentiments regarding not being interested in a 5DmkIV, it is worth mentioning to people considering this option that a mid-high range FF camera from either Canon or Nikon, as well as the smaller formats from other vendors, is probably a better camera for most purposes. Not as much fun, in my opinion, but still better. I feel if people are dropping a couple of grand on a 10 year old camera, we should at least warn them what they are getting into. If they are doing this as a hobby and can afford it, we welcome them.
You're right of course, and I've rethought the whole MF thing in the last couple of days. As I mentioned, I own a Sony a7 with two modern lenses and a lot of old manual focus glass. :grin: Before that I've had numerous systems, including Sony APS-C, MFT, Nikon D700 and Leica M. All of these systems have had flaws that made me move on, but the D700 was the most convenient camera, except for the size of it.

And, the more I think about it, I know I would end up hating the MF camera because of its size, no matter how good the output is. The most interesting camera right now is therefore the Fuji GFX, but even if I can easily afford it, I don't want to put that kind of money into something that wouldn't also generate money. And I also don't want more pixels; it'll just force me to buy a new computer. :rolleyes:

So, I'll probably end up with a simple upgrade from a7 to a7II to get better ergonomics (and IBIS), at the expense of a little more bulk and weight. And I will continue to hate Sony for not allowing other aspect ratios than 3:2 and 16:9 in-camera. :angry: :p
 

RandB

New member
World Class.jpg
Just a side note I had the P25+ which is actually for sale in the B&S section from Mark Saperstein but anyway back to Marc's comment on the 22mpx 9 micron sensors. I don't know what it is either but I loved the look from that back or maybe better said the 9 micron sensor.I have some thoughts on it the micro contrast detail was punchier in look and the Dr slightly less than say the new sensors today but the end result was very punchy images . Also the 9 micron sensors are very friendly to older glass. Which in essence gives you the chance to get some great quality out of some inexpensive lenses. It's a great starter system and many still shot the 9 micron because of these qualities of it. We have many threads on the P25+ and 9 micron sensors in the archives. Actually if you search my name you should find them . Okay I have over 10k in posts but they are their.

BTW the Hassy and Phase are the same Kodak sensors so it does give you a good idea what you can achieve from them.

Now the only issue you will run into is Moire so if your a fashion shooter may not be the best back shooting clothing and fabric. Also these backs can be used on a Tech cam.
Absolutely agree with these favorable comments on the P25+ and other 9 micron sensors. As Guy says elsewhere, a digital Kodachrome 25.

Randy
 

bensonga

Well-known member
As the owner of 3 "fat pixel" 9 micron digital backs (CFV-16II, P25+ and Aptus II 5), I think these backs still offer a look which is worth shooting, as long as a person can live with their limitations (low ISO etc). Prices on many of these backs are below $2k now, so for anyone who already has a camera system to support them, the cost of entry for medium format digital is minimal. I personally prefer the look of the images from the P25+ and Aptus II 5 vs my Sony A7. On the other hand, if I had to choose between any of these fat pixel backs or my A7R2, I would keep the A7R2.

Gary

Leaf Aptus II 5 and Mamiya AF 80/2.8
 
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