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Thread: Pentax countdown..........

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Might just be a great way to get in the MF world for a lot of folks. Bring it on
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Agreed- looking fwd to initial reviews and, hopefully if all works out well, getting wider distribution. The Pentax may not be my eventual platform of choice, but welcome the price/performance pressure on the overall MFDB market it, again, will hopefully bring if it gets some legs.
    Last edited by robmac; 12th March 2010 at 05:22.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by proenca View Post
    I know its results that matter and what this camera produces is what it counts but oh boy... the thing is terrible ugly.
    I like the way it looks!

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Might just be a great way to get in the MF world for a lot of folks. Bring it on
    Guy's got a point, I have to say that for the first time I'm tempted to sell off all my Nikon gear and get into more serious digital shooting. Just tempted.
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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by dfarkas View Post
    Now, back to the Pentax. Anyone know what software will ship with it or if it will offer tethered operation?
    David, from the Japanese site it looks as though it will be the Pentax version of Silkypix, as has been the case with their smaller DSLRs.

    I haven't had time to wade through the Japanese text to figure out about tethering. However, in the past, Pentax's 645 marketing theme for the home market has consistently been "Super Field Camera", not "Super Studio Camera". And from the first taste of the 645D promotion it looks as though this theme may be emphasized for the digital version as well. This suggests that tethering may not be a high priority. But I emphasize that this is pure speculation on my part.

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    AA filter?

    I have not seen any mention about an anti-aliasing filter on the Pentax. It is not specified whether it has one or not. Has anyone seen any information about this?

    If it does have an AA filter, it will be interesting to see a comparison with all of the other 40MP cameras, as the Pentax might be the first to have one.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    no aa filter.

  8. #158
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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Might just be a great way to get in the MF world for a lot of folks. Bring it on
    Might just be. I have been struggling with the "to MFDB or not" question for a while, and it's mainly the cost vs. functionality thing that I have a hard time justifying. I look forward to seeing what it can do.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Here you can see how the Pentax 645D looks in real....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llLddJ4_c88

    and new pictures

    http://forum.digitalfotonetz.de/view...=asc&start=103

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Screen looks great and the leveling system looks very well implemented.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Camera looks great. Not many Pentax 645 AF lenses still available for sale new and unless I'm mistaken, the only new lens they have announced is the 55mm. I suppose they will either resume production of the previous line-up of 645 AF lenses or come out with a newly designed lineup of "digital" lenses. Well, on the off chance that I may pick up one of these someday, I just bought a LN condition Pentax 67 to 645 lens adapter (very hard to find). Might be able to put my nice collection of Pentax 67 lenses to good use again. :-)

    I'm really glad to see that Pentax finally delivered the goods on this long awaited camera. I hope it's a technical and commercial success for them.

    Gary

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post

    I'm really glad to see that Pentax finally delivered the goods on this long awaited camera. I hope it's a technical and commercial success for them.

    Gary

    I agree. With the (sort of) contraction in medium format of the past year or so, it would be nice to reverse that with Leaf becoming healthy again, Leica entering, Pentax emerging, and ..... who knows who else?

    It's a challenge being a small player in a small market, but I love the idea of having those small players, rather than just a couple dominators. 35mm has evolved this way. In addition to Canon/Nikon - there's Sony (not small, but a small player in comparison to market share), Olympus,Panasonic, Leica, etc, providing the segment with a lot of options. While the larger players tend to get a lot right, the smaller players often have numerous unique features of value to end users.

    If niche companies can survive - or even thrive and grow - in the medium format marketplace, that boosts the segment as a whole.


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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    This is the first digital MF camera (on paper) that doesn't look like a one trick pony like the rest.
    It's also the first MF camera makers that seems to have listened to what so many working professional have been asking for for years.

    I'm really excited to see what this camera delivers.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    If niche companies can survive - or even thrive and grow - in the medium format marketplace, that boosts the segment as a whole.
    ********
    The opposite could also occur. The "small" player who is backed with big corp. dollars, offers a product with competitive/better features at significantly less cost could "harm" an small market.

    Steve

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharokin View Post
    This is the first digital MF camera (on paper) that doesn't look like a one trick pony like the rest.
    It's also the first MF camera makers that seems to have listened to what so many working professional have been asking for for years.

    I'm really excited to see what this camera delivers.
    What other tricks does this pony do?

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    The Pentax 645D is now teaching at Yale University with Tod Papageorge and Gregory Crewdson and really pushing the art of photography in new, exciting directions. Meanwhile, the Dusseldorf school has banned the use of 8x10" cameras and only allows the use of vintage, half frame Pen F cameras and the Apple iPhone.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Multiple AF points, High Res LCD, dust shaker, dual SD cards etc....and all for under $10K.
    I would imagine it will equal the Hassy and P40 at asa 800, and has as good as glass as the Hassy and Mamiya.

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    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by tetsrfun View Post
    If niche companies can survive - or even thrive and grow - in the medium format marketplace, that boosts the segment as a whole.
    ********
    The opposite could also occur. The "small" player who is backed with big corp. dollars, offers a product with competitive/better features at significantly less cost could "harm" an small market.

    Steve

    I suppose that scenario could produce an advantage over smaller companies (in terms of backing). That's a tough call - advance the market with features, but reduce the players, or have more players with fewer end user benefits.

    I don't know that anyone in the medium format segment is backed by big corporate dollars. In the 35mm segment, yes, this sounds like Sony, although Canon would certainly also fall into that category.

    The specs on the Pentax sound great. I'm interested to see how they translate into real world use. If they do so successfully, my hope is that this drives Hasselblad/Phase One/Leaf/Sinar to up their game in the ways the Pentax promises to.


    Steve Hendrix


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  19. #169
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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    The specs on the Pentax sound great. I'm interested to see how they translate into real world use. If they do so successfully, my hope is that this drives Hasselblad/Phase One/Leaf/Sinar to up their game in the ways the Pentax promises to.
    *********
    That would be the best result. I have been only mildly interested in the Pentax story until I saw the video clip. The new Pentax looks like a very serious camera that wasn't rushed to market and offered (limited distribution) at a "low" price.

    I haven't compared corporate revenues but I would think that Hoya/Pentax is a much bigger corporate player ($3 billion revenues) than any other MF manufacturer and seeing their product, looks as if they intent to stick around.

    Steve

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix View Post

    The specs on the Pentax sound great. I'm interested to see how they translate into real world use. If they do so successfully, my hope is that this drives Hasselblad/Phase One/Leaf/Sinar to up their game in the ways the Pentax promises to.


    Steve Hendrix


    Steve Hendrix
    Well said, Steve. These are my thoughts as well.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    I liked the video because is gave perspective on the camera size and handling. The camera looks better to me now that I have seen it in someones hands.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    It's a nice looking camera with good specs. I wished they had gone a step further and used a CMOS sensor to gain better high asa.
    With the file quality of high end DSLR's being so close to MFDB's right now the only reason I'm still interested in MF cameras is the larger sensor.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    Not many Pentax 645 AF lenses still available for sale new and unless I'm mistaken, the only new lens they have announced is the 55mm. I suppose they will either resume production of the previous line-up of 645 AF lenses or come out with a newly designed lineup of "digital" lenses.
    In Japan, pretty much the entire Pentax 645 system remains on sale new. The camera (645NII) has had its last production run and is being sold from remaining stock, but the press release last March that announced the phase-out of the 645 and 67 cameras also said that the 645 lenses would remain in production.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    used a CMOS sensor to gain better high asa.
    *********
    Does Kodak or Dalsa have a consumer grade MF size CMOS sensor? If they do what is the down-side to a "large" CMOS sensor?

    Steve

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharokin View Post
    It's a nice looking camera with good specs. I wished they had gone a step further and used a CMOS sensor to gain better high asa.
    With the file quality of high end DSLR's being so close to MFDB's right now the only reason I'm still interested in MF cameras is the larger sensor.
    Not sure I'd agree that the file quality of the high end DSLRs is all that close to MFD cameras, especially the newer 40 meg and on up. I sometimes start thinking that myself, until I look at the results to bring me back to reality.

    I've owned and shot extensively with all three major Pro DSLRs ... Canon 1DsMKIII, Nikon D3X and now the Sony A900: using top optics on all three. In the same sort of conditions, I've also shot with a number of MFDs: Hassey/Kodak and Leaf/Dalsa backs: 203FE/H3D-II, Mamiya, and Contax 645 bodies.

    As I sit here going through thousands of wedding shots preparing images for my new website, it became very apparent that even at the same sizes the MFD shots stand out from any of the others. More subtile renderings, greater sense of realism, finer detail, much better elasticity when working the images in post. The few exceptions to that were always Leica M9 shots ... which is a CCD camera using bank busting optics.

    My take is the opposite of yours ... I would like to see a top level, higher meg DSLR with a CCD sensor. The now archaic, crop frame Leica DMR still produces file quality that barks with the big dogs from Canon and Nikon.

    What is also interesting to note is that those high end DSLRs aren't the models that deliver the high ISO performance anyway. Better than MFDs, but not by much. We've even used a high ISO Canon 5D-II at weddings, and at the same, most used ISOs, the file quality is not comparable to the MFDs even to my beginner photo assistants.

    That all said, it WOULD be very interesting to see a MFD CMOS camera if that is even possible.

    I would also say that this Pentax could well be a serious contender for high-end wedding photographers. The price is right, and the feature set meshes with
    needs better than any other MFD out there ... as most MFDs are oriented to studio applications, or have to straddle dual applications. This is especially true for the Pentax's dual card slots that can be set for mirrored capture.

    -Marc

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    As I sit here going through thousands of wedding shots preparing images for my new website, it became very apparent that even at the same sizes the MFD shots stand out from any of the others. More subtile renderings, greater sense of realism, finer detail, much better elasticity when working the images in post.

    -Marc
    This was the discussion I had in the car at the Salton Sea workshop. Even in web sized jpegs it seems easy to spot which shots came from medium format. It is a look that I really like. I really do like my A900 but there is just something different and better that I like when I see it. The other thing I'm grappling with is aspect ratio. I really enjoy more of a 4:3 ratio than a 3:2 (in my pro/con list - an S2 negative for me).

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Let us know about the new website when it's ready Marc.

    I had understood that Pentax were aiming this camera squarely at the Japan wedding market actually which is in line with what you're saying. Certainly the build and features fit in with that goal.
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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Re - The Pentax Camera price

    I am in Tokyo at the moment and was visiting a camera shop this weekend. They had a poster advertising the new Pentax camera.

    Price was Yen 848,000
    I cannot read Japanese but I noticed the poster said the price is open. That means the shops are free to set the price they want to sell the camera at.
    I noticed that for various camera equipment the price is discounted by 5 to 10% from the stated price. Also the shops give 10% in a points back system.

    This could mean that after the initial rush of sales on this camera the price could be as much as 20% cheaper. ( including points) So we may get near the price point we are all wanting on this.

    This shop is giving the 10% points right from the start.
    http://www.yodobashi.com/ec/product/...156/index.html
    I would imagine after the initial rush some shops will discount the price by 5 to 10% and give the points

    One more comment is that the camera is being sold through mass market retailers. The shop above Yodobashi camera is a large chain discount camera shop. In other words its just being sold like any other commodity camera.

    Phase/Hasselblad usually sell through an experienced dealer network. ( lots of support )

    In other words your not getting any special support with the pentax camera. Really left to yourself to sort everything out from the instruction book. ( have to make good use of this forum and compare notes )

    Regards

    Neil
    Last edited by neil; 14th March 2010 at 01:30. Reason: correct spelling and add comment

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Let us know about the new website when it's ready Marc.

    I had understood that Pentax were aiming this camera squarely at the Japan wedding market actually which is in line with what you're saying. Certainly the build and features fit in with that goal.
    Wish I could get my mits on one of these now to see how it measures up to that task Ben. Especially IQ compared to the Sony A900. ... and MOST importantly how good is the AF. Pentax should give me one to beta test for the US Market.

    At $9,400. even adding a wide and tele, we're way under any other MFD choice by more than 1/2.

    -Marc

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Hi Niel. Thanks for direct news from Tokyo. Perhaps I missed it, is the new camera already available at Yodobashi et al in Tokyo?


    Quote Originally Posted by neil View Post
    Re - The Pentax Camera price

    I am in Tokyo at the moment and was visiting a camera shop this weekend. They had a poster advertising the new Pentax camera.

    Price was Yen 848,000
    I cannot read Japanese but I noticed the poster said the price is open. That means the shops are free to set the price they want to sell the camera at.
    I noticed that for various camera equipment the price is discounted by 5 to 10% from the stated price. Also the shops give 10% in a points back system.

    This could mean that after the initial rush of sales on this camera the price could be as much as 20% cheaper. ( including points) So we may get near the price point we are all wanting on this.

    This shop is giving the 10% points right from the start.
    http://www.yodobashi.com/ec/product/...156/index.html
    I would imagine after the initial rush some shops will discount the price by 5 to 10% and give the points

    One more comment is that the camera is being sold through mass market retailers. The shop above Yodobashi camera is a large chain discount camera shop. In other words its just being sold like any other commodity camera.

    Phase/Hasselblad usually sell through an experienced dealer network. ( lots of support )

    In other words your not getting any special support with the pentax camera. Really left to yourself to sort everything out from the instruction book. ( have to make good use of this forum and compare notes )

    Regards

    Neil

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Re - The Pentax Camera price

    My Japanese is very poor. I think the man in the Yodobashi Camera shop told me that if I place an order for the camera that he could deliver it to me in mid May.

    Regards

    Neil

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by neil View Post
    Re - The Pentax Camera price

    My Japanese is very poor. I think the man in the Yodobashi Camera shop told me that if I place an order for the camera that he could deliver it to me in mid May.

    Regards

    Neil
    The May date agrees with the press release.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Wish I could get my mits on one of these now to see how it measures up to that task Ben. Especially IQ compared to the Sony A900. ... and MOST importantly how good is the AF. Pentax should give me one to beta test for the US Market.

    At $9,400. even adding a wide and tele, we're way under any other MFD choice by more than 1/2.

    -Marc
    Thing is Marc, as you and I know, weddings just don't pay MF money and the client decerning enough to make it worth it is rather thin upon the ground. Oh well, such is life.
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  34. #184
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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Well you still have to shoot for yourself and what quality YOU want to deliver to the client. I have someone looking at my landscape work right now to order prints and even though this stuff is shot more for me no client on hand. It's the look they are after and willing to pay big for it and i have a files that screams print me big. I do take issue sometimes with well it's good enough for magazine work which we hear often. My biggest bitch is the word good enough. Forget the technical part of that but what does good enough really mean. I equate that to being lazy in thought and what you want to deliver or maybe better said can I cheat with good enough.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  35. #185
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llLddJ4_c88


    This camera looks pretty dang good just watched the video here and it looks actually pretty small and some nice feature sets. The AF looked pretty quick
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Well you still have to shoot for yourself and what quality YOU want to deliver to the client. I have someone looking at my landscape work right now to order prints and even though this stuff is shot more for me no client on hand. It's the look they are after and willing to pay big for it and i have a files that screams print me big. I do take issue sometimes with well it's good enough for magazine work which we hear often. My biggest bitch is the word good enough. Forget the technical part of that but what does good enough really mean. I equate that to being lazy in thought and what you want to deliver or maybe better said can I cheat with good enough.
    Guy you can always make the case of MF having "good enough" AF, slow buffer, low frame rate, slow lens aperture, high price, cheap lcd, etc....

    Quality is good if it comes in a competent package.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    I had understood that Pentax were aiming this camera squarely at the Japan wedding market actually which is in line with what you're saying. Certainly the build and features fit in with that goal.
    Take a look at the picture that Pentax is using as the header on the 645D pages on its website:

    http://www.pentax.jp/japan/imaging/d...main_image.jpg

    This is a direct extension of the long-running theme of its 645 film camera marketing - "Super Field". See also the 645NII brochure here (warning: ~4.5MB pdf):

    http://www.pentax.jp/japan/imaging/c.../pdf/645n2.pdf

    I'd guess that the 645D brochure, when it appears, will look very similar.

    My guess is that the target market Pentax has in mind for the 645D is what the Japanese call "high amateurs". Whether they feel confident in their ability, or even intend, to target a studio or wedding pro market overseas is, I think, an open question. A lack of clarity on this point, or even a firm decision not to, would help explain the hesitation on their part in launching worldwide rather than just in Japan. Even if they do end up selling it overseas, my guess is that they will sell it as an off-the-shelf high-end amateur product rather than as a pro product with specialized dealers and support. Again, this is speculation based on their behavior in recent years. Time will tell.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Agreed, I see that as their market as well.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    My guess is that the target market Pentax has in mind for the 645D is what the Japanese call "high amateurs". Whether they feel confident in their ability, or even intend, to target a studio or wedding pro market overseas is, I think, an open question.
    ********
    "High amateurs" would be a very smart marketing strategy, IMO. If the Pentax works as good as it looks and sells sub $10k, then Pentax will be tapping into a new market that the current MFD can't exploit. Trying to break into the "pro" market with a totally new product would be an unlikely path to success.

    As hobbyist, it's fun to read about P65+ or the new 40 MP 'blad but they don't even elicit a brief thought that I might buy. For me, the max upgrade I am thinking about would be in the area of a CFV39 or the equivalent Phase back. A 40MP MF for <$10k has me thinking.

    Steve

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharokin View Post
    Guy you can always make the case of MF having "good enough" AF, slow buffer, low frame rate, slow lens aperture, high price, cheap lcd, etc....

    Quality is good if it comes in a competent package.
    Absolutely if the gear does need the speed and such. As long as it is delivering the image quality that is really the bottom line for a lot of work.

    Now let's not confuse that with needs in gear though and software. For some than we need the absolutely best gear as well. Is the Pentax it for some maybe for others probably not. I know I won't be selling my Phase gear for it. But this looks like a nice balance to get into MF for a good price and hopefully the quality of file will be very good. Let's not forget the ZD great image quality but lacked in the body and functions itself but it produced great files.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by tetsrfun View Post
    My guess is that the target market Pentax has in mind for the 645D is what the Japanese call "high amateurs". Whether they feel confident in their ability, or even intend, to target a studio or wedding pro market overseas is, I think, an open question.
    ********
    "High amateurs" would be a very smart marketing strategy, IMO. If the Pentax works as good as it looks and sells sub $10k, then Pentax will be tapping into a new market that the current MFD can't exploit. Trying to break into the "pro" market with a totally new product would be an unlikely path to success.

    As hobbyist, it's fun to read about P65+ or the new 40 MP 'blad but they don't even elicit a brief thought that I might buy. For me, the max upgrade I am thinking about would be in the area of a CFV39 or the equivalent Phase back. A 40MP MF for <$10k has me thinking.

    Steve
    Exactly this is in my opinion Leica went wrong on price and the Pentax opens a lot of doors to get the DSLR folks wanting a little more but not willing to go Hassy and Phase in the first run, maybe later move up but to start the Pentax maybe a great entry cam.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  43. #193
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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Exactly this is in my opinion Leica went wrong on price and the Pentax opens a lot of doors
    ********
    Leica has a market segment that no other camera company can exploit; the person who buys a Ferrari and drives it 1,000 miles a year. Whether that market plus more traditional buyers will be enough for the S2..???? To extend the car analogy, the Pentax appeals to the potential Porsche buyer.

    Steve

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    When I spoke to the local Leica rep a few weeks after the S2 was announced, he told me that he'd already passed his quota of pre-orders for it.

    With that as context, Pentax may find they haven't planned to produce enough 645D units to meet the demand.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Well you still have to shoot for yourself and what quality YOU want to deliver to the client. I have someone looking at my landscape work right now to order prints and even though this stuff is shot more for me no client on hand. It's the look they are after and willing to pay big for it and i have a files that screams print me big. I do take issue sometimes with well it's good enough for magazine work which we hear often. My biggest bitch is the word good enough. Forget the technical part of that but what does good enough really mean. I equate that to being lazy in thought and what you want to deliver or maybe better said can I cheat with good enough.
    Not sure I agree Guy. There is 'good enough' and 'more than plenty for the specific purpose'. We have long ago left the realm of the former and are stretching the economic and business justification of the latter and have been for a while in the wedding business.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Exactly this is in my opinion Leica went wrong on price and the Pentax opens a lot of doors to get the DSLR folks wanting a little more but not willing to go Hassy and Phase in the first run, maybe later move up but to start the Pentax maybe a great entry cam.
    I dont really get this way of thinking, if this Pentax produces a quality file then i cant see any reason why you would consider a Phase a possible later upgrade, if anything I think you may have it the wrong way around!

    If the monkey behind the camera is capable of producing quality work, then the difference between 'Pro' and 'amateur' equipment capability becomes nonsense.

    You wont see the likes of LaChapelle dumping his amateur Pentax 645 for a Hassy if his next exhibition is a flop
    and if you were to start listing the number of world class images captured with Nikon D40s and similar amateur gear by well known pros, well you would be here quite a while.

    If your worried about your amateur Pentax failing, buy a second one! Two Pentax is still cheaper than one Mamiya, and its certainly better than one mamiya (or phase) plus a 5d11. Which is the more pro set up?

    Software wise, just get Lightroom and get on with it, if its good enough for Leica................

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Not sure I agree Guy. There is 'good enough' and 'more than plenty for the specific purpose'. We have long ago left the realm of the former and are stretching the economic and business justification of the latter and have been for a while in the wedding business.
    This is an interesting area of discussion in itself. In every sense Ben, myself and Guy are all Pro photographers, but each of us has different demands and pressures on our businesses. I would hazard a guess that Guy is the most diversified, and best poised to weather the economic crap we live with now. IMO, unquestioned quality at the personal level fuels Guys justifications of providing the best possible solutions for all clients ... with the quality curve being at the high end .... and ALL levels of clients receive.

    I have been heavily researching photographic business opportunities because everything I can find about the wedding business says it just isn't going to ever rebound to former levels even if the economy makes a full recovery. Every single guru I read said the same thing ... diversify and reinvent yourself or perish.

    What I see is that if you do not follow that path, you will be squeezed until the justifications for lesser quality start ringing true to your own ears. "Good Enough" is he watch word of a segment of photography so crowed with "Good Enough" that it begins to smack of "commodity" goods.

    In my personal opinion, I'd rather go under fighting my way upstream, rather than being washed over the cliff with the "Good Enough" crowd. At least I can hold my head up knowing I tried my best to deliver what I think is the best quality work (creatively and technically), and not what someone else thinks it is.

    Which, to bring this back on topic, were I a high-end DSLR user I'd seriously consider skipping the next round of bells and whistles, 80% of which I'd never use, and look to up my "Technical Game" with a camera like this.

    -Marc

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    I think Marc hit the nail on the head. I want the absolute best no excuses solution. If it is not good enough it's ME. Like Marc if i go down it won't be the gear and any limitations or image quality issues. I guess if I close the doors i gave it all and held nothing back. Too many years in this to just accept good enough on all levels. I'm just hearing this too often and it is killing the status of working pro's and what we bring to the table for clients.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    I dont really get this way of thinking, if this Pentax produces a quality file then i cant see any reason why you would consider a Phase a possible later upgrade, if anything I think you may have it the wrong way around!

    If the monkey behind the camera is capable of producing quality work, then the difference between 'Pro' and 'amateur' equipment capability becomes nonsense.

    You wont see the likes of LaChapelle dumping his amateur Pentax 645 for a Hassy if his next exhibition is a flop
    and if you were to start listing the number of world class images captured with Nikon D40s and similar amateur gear by well known pros, well you would be here quite a while.

    If your worried about your amateur Pentax failing, buy a second one! Two Pentax is still cheaper than one Mamiya, and its certainly better than one mamiya (or phase) plus a 5d11. Which is the more pro set up?

    Software wise, just get Lightroom and get on with it, if its good enough for Leica................
    Wrong 5 Pentax cameras and 3 Leica S2 are still not good enough . Neither one of them do a sensor plus file and LR is a general purpose software. It is not specialized to my back and will not do corrections or optimize the best high ISO images as C1 does. There is a line in the sand and I want to be on the top tier of that line. Neither solution does what Phase can do or Hassy for that matter and that is draw the absolute best out of those sensors. Trust me I been down this road with all sorts of solutions with Leica's , Nikons Canons and even backs from Phase . The new crop of 40 mpx sensors are IT and specialized software for those backs are the best solution. Will the Pentax and leica's work okay sure they will , BTW it's 4 months now and no profile for a 25 k cam. I can't buy into that sorry, I buy a back or any cam i want everything in place the day I buy. Leica is a failing grade right now for Pro work 2 lenses and no profile and a promise it will come. A promise that is like being in a stripper bar with a .25 cents in your pocket, you ain't getting a lap dance my friend. LOL

    God ladies sorry but it just had to be said.

    Maybe Marc can answer this better than me but there is NO SECOND chance for either one of us with the work we do. You can't risk anything, you need as rock solid as you can get.

    Now am I being hard on Leica , YES I am and have been all my own Leica career with there products. The S2 is aimed at the Pro but giving us a waiting game is not what a working Pro is after and I told them this a hundred times. They need 4 or 5 lenses TODAY and working profiles if they want us to buy. The hobbyist does not have these same issues. Now i only see one Pentax lens also but they have some legacy glass that can be used which is awesome. At least it has a chance to build, Leica we are stuck withS glass. My review said it time and time again it needs to age and that is exactly what it needs for Pro shooters. It's very simple really just not enough yet.

    Sorry Leica fans but i am one of there big fans too but this can't be ignored. If Pentax wants to hit the market my best advice come with 3 lenses so people can actually sell there gear and buy in.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    I don't really get this way of thinking, if this Pentax produces a quality file then I cant see any reason why you would consider a Phase a possible later upgrade, if anything I think you may have it the wrong way around!

    If the monkey behind the camera is capable of producing quality work, then the difference between 'Pro' and 'amateur' equipment capability becomes nonsense.

    You wont see the likes of LaChapelle dumping his amateur Pentax 645 for a Hassy if his next exhibition is a flop
    and if you were to start listing the number of world class images captured with Nikon D40s and similar amateur gear by well known pros, well you would be here quite a while.

    If your worried about your amateur Pentax failing, buy a second one! Two Pentax is still cheaper than one Mamiya, and it's certainly better than one mamiya (or phase) plus a 5d11. Which is the more pro set up?

    Software wise, just get Lightroom and get on with it, if its good enough for Leica................
    Actually, I do "get" Guy's way of thinking.

    First, I wouldn't categorize this Pentax as an "Amateur" piece of equipment ... just one that may appeal to the applications of an amateur, as well as a mobile Professional looking to move into MFD ... both of whom will see the pricing as more in line with where they are and are willing to spend.

    Despite the skew on this forum, an overwhelming amount of Pro MFD applications are still in the studio or on a major location productions tethered to a computer. Even on this specific forum there are a number of users that also use their MFD product on a Tech camera or view camera.

    The D40 quantity argument doesn't wash IMO ... it's a different category of shooting with different demands.

    Neither does the "Generic" software argument. IMO, Lightroom is far from being good enough for a $50,000. Leica S2 system, and is a major impediment to producing what that Camera may or may not be capable of. There are more than enough threads on the subject of "Proprietary Software" and the significant advantages they deliver. Using 3rd party software rather than Hasselbald's Phocus or Phase One's C1, is stepping down your game rather than stepping it up with the gear you just paid a King's Ransom for.

    -Marc

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