Pentax countdown..........

[neil]

Re - The Pentax Camera price

My Japanese is very poor. I think the man in the Yodobashi Camera shop told me that if I place an order for the camera that he could deliver it to me in mid May.

Regards

Neil

 

[Terry]

Re - The Pentax Camera price

My Japanese is very poor. I think the man in the Yodobashi Camera shop told me that if I place an order for the camera that he could deliver it to me in mid May.

Regards

Neil

The May date agrees with the press release.

 

[Ben Rubinstein]

Wish I could get my mits on one of these now to see how it measures up to that task Ben. Especially IQ compared to the Sony A900. ... and MOST importantly how good is the AF. Pentax should give me one to beta test for the US Market. :ROTFL:

At $9,400. even adding a wide and tele, we're way under any other MFD choice by more than 1/2.

-Marc

Thing is Marc, as you and I know, weddings just don't pay MF money and the client decerning enough to make it worth it is rather thin upon the ground. Oh well, such is life.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Well you still have to shoot for yourself and what quality YOU want to deliver to the client. I have someone looking at my landscape work right now to order prints and even though this stuff is shot more for me no client on hand. It's the look they are after and willing to pay big for it and i have a files that screams print me big. I do take issue sometimes with well it's good enough for magazine work which we hear often. My biggest bitch is the word good enough. Forget the technical part of that but what does good enough really mean. I equate that to being lazy in thought and what you want to deliver or maybe better said can I cheat with good enough.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llLddJ4_c88


This camera looks pretty dang good just watched the video here and it looks actually pretty small and some nice feature sets. The AF looked pretty quick

 

[xpixel]

Some new 645D Videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KKoHAE8Mn4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF4hj2sIx3M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_JZY2vD6lo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i553CCquWU0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1fTFh_E_yI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDvbU6s7HlQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CWACj05b0o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hlIs84mvq0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbtzXJFWa2I

 

[Sharokin]

Well you still have to shoot for yourself and what quality YOU want to deliver to the client. I have someone looking at my landscape work right now to order prints and even though this stuff is shot more for me no client on hand. It's the look they are after and willing to pay big for it and i have a files that screams print me big. I do take issue sometimes with well it's good enough for magazine work which we hear often. My biggest bitch is the word good enough. Forget the technical part of that but what does good enough really mean. I equate that to being lazy in thought and what you want to deliver or maybe better said can I cheat with good enough.

Guy you can always make the case of MF having "good enough" AF, slow buffer, low frame rate, slow lens aperture, high price, cheap lcd, etc....

Quality is good if it comes in a competent package.

 

[Oren Grad]

I had understood that Pentax were aiming this camera squarely at the Japan wedding market actually which is in line with what you're saying. Certainly the build and features fit in with that goal.

Take a look at the picture that Pentax is using as the header on the 645D pages on its website:

http://www.pentax.jp/japan/imaging/digital/medium/645d/image/main_image.jpg

This is a direct extension of the long-running theme of its 645 film camera marketing - "Super Field". See also the 645NII brochure here (warning: ~4.5MB pdf):

http://www.pentax.jp/japan/imaging/catalog/pdf/645n2.pdf

I'd guess that the 645D brochure, when it appears, will look very similar.

My guess is that the target market Pentax has in mind for the 645D is what the Japanese call "high amateurs". Whether they feel confident in their ability, or even intend, to target a studio or wedding pro market overseas is, I think, an open question. A lack of clarity on this point, or even a firm decision not to, would help explain the hesitation on their part in launching worldwide rather than just in Japan. Even if they do end up selling it overseas, my guess is that they will sell it as an off-the-shelf high-end amateur product rather than as a pro product with specialized dealers and support. Again, this is speculation based on their behavior in recent years. Time will tell.

 

[monza]

Agreed, I see that as their market as well.

 

[tetsrfun]

My guess is that the target market Pentax has in mind for the 645D is what the Japanese call "high amateurs". Whether they feel confident in their ability, or even intend, to target a studio or wedding pro market overseas is, I think, an open question.
********
"High amateurs" would be a very smart marketing strategy, IMO. If the Pentax works as good as it looks and sells sub $10k, then Pentax will be tapping into a new market that the current MFD can't exploit. Trying to break into the "pro" market with a totally new product would be an unlikely path to success.

As hobbyist, it's fun to read about P65+ or the new 40 MP 'blad but they don't even elicit a brief thought that I might buy. For me, the max upgrade I am thinking about would be in the area of a CFV39 or the equivalent Phase back. A 40MP MF for <$10k has me thinking.

Steve

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Guy you can always make the case of MF having "good enough" AF, slow buffer, low frame rate, slow lens aperture, high price, cheap lcd, etc....

Quality is good if it comes in a competent package.

Absolutely if the gear does need the speed and such. As long as it is delivering the image quality that is really the bottom line for a lot of work.

Now let's not confuse that with needs in gear though and software. For some than we need the absolutely best gear as well. Is the Pentax it for some maybe for others probably not. I know I won't be selling my Phase gear for it. But this looks like a nice balance to get into MF for a good price and hopefully the quality of file will be very good. Let's not forget the ZD great image quality but lacked in the body and functions itself but it produced great files.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

My guess is that the target market Pentax has in mind for the 645D is what the Japanese call "high amateurs". Whether they feel confident in their ability, or even intend, to target a studio or wedding pro market overseas is, I think, an open question.
********
"High amateurs" would be a very smart marketing strategy, IMO. If the Pentax works as good as it looks and sells sub $10k, then Pentax will be tapping into a new market that the current MFD can't exploit. Trying to break into the "pro" market with a totally new product would be an unlikely path to success.

As hobbyist, it's fun to read about P65+ or the new 40 MP 'blad but they don't even elicit a brief thought that I might buy. For me, the max upgrade I am thinking about would be in the area of a CFV39 or the equivalent Phase back. A 40MP MF for <$10k has me thinking.

Steve

Exactly this is in my opinion Leica went wrong on price and the Pentax opens a lot of doors to get the DSLR folks wanting a little more but not willing to go Hassy and Phase in the first run, maybe later move up but to start the Pentax maybe a great entry cam.

 

[tetsrfun]

Exactly this is in my opinion Leica went wrong on price and the Pentax opens a lot of doors
********
Leica has a market segment that no other camera company can exploit; the person who buys a Ferrari and drives it 1,000 miles a year. Whether that market plus more traditional buyers will be enough for the S2..???? To extend the car analogy, the Pentax appeals to the potential Porsche buyer.

Steve

 

[Godfrey]

When I spoke to the local Leica rep a few weeks after the S2 was announced, he told me that he'd already passed his quota of pre-orders for it.

With that as context, Pentax may find they haven't planned to produce enough 645D units to meet the demand.

 

[Ben Rubinstein]

Well you still have to shoot for yourself and what quality YOU want to deliver to the client. I have someone looking at my landscape work right now to order prints and even though this stuff is shot more for me no client on hand. It's the look they are after and willing to pay big for it and i have a files that screams print me big. I do take issue sometimes with well it's good enough for magazine work which we hear often. My biggest bitch is the word good enough. Forget the technical part of that but what does good enough really mean. I equate that to being lazy in thought and what you want to deliver or maybe better said can I cheat with good enough.

Not sure I agree Guy. There is 'good enough' and 'more than plenty for the specific purpose'. We have long ago left the realm of the former and are stretching the economic and business justification of the latter and have been for a while in the wedding business.

 

[Aaron]

Exactly this is in my opinion Leica went wrong on price and the Pentax opens a lot of doors to get the DSLR folks wanting a little more but not willing to go Hassy and Phase in the first run, maybe later move up but to start the Pentax maybe a great entry cam.

I dont really get this way of thinking, if this Pentax produces a quality file then i cant see any reason why you would consider a Phase a possible later upgrade, if anything I think you may have it the wrong way around!

If the monkey behind the camera is capable of producing quality work, then the difference between 'Pro' and 'amateur' equipment capability becomes nonsense.

You wont see the likes of LaChapelle dumping his amateur Pentax 645 for a Hassy if his next exhibition is a flop
and if you were to start listing the number of world class images captured with Nikon D40s and similar amateur gear by well known pros, well you would be here quite a while.

If your worried about your amateur Pentax failing, buy a second one! Two Pentax is still cheaper than one Mamiya, and its certainly better than one mamiya (or phase) plus a 5d11. Which is the more pro set up?

Software wise, just get Lightroom and get on with it, if its good enough for Leica................

 

[fotografz]

Not sure I agree Guy. There is 'good enough' and 'more than plenty for the specific purpose'. We have long ago left the realm of the former and are stretching the economic and business justification of the latter and have been for a while in the wedding business.

This is an interesting area of discussion in itself. In every sense Ben, myself and Guy are all Pro photographers, but each of us has different demands and pressures on our businesses. I would hazard a guess that Guy is the most diversified, and best poised to weather the economic crap we live with now. IMO, unquestioned quality at the personal level fuels Guys justifications of providing the best possible solutions for all clients ... with the quality curve being at the high end .... and ALL levels of clients receive.

I have been heavily researching photographic business opportunities because everything I can find about the wedding business says it just isn't going to ever rebound to former levels even if the economy makes a full recovery. Every single guru I read said the same thing ... diversify and reinvent yourself or perish.

What I see is that if you do not follow that path, you will be squeezed until the justifications for lesser quality start ringing true to your own ears. "Good Enough" is he watch word of a segment of photography so crowed with "Good Enough" that it begins to smack of "commodity" goods.

In my personal opinion, I'd rather go under fighting my way upstream, rather than being washed over the cliff with the "Good Enough" crowd. At least I can hold my head up knowing I tried my best to deliver what I think is the best quality work (creatively and technically), and not what someone else thinks it is.

Which, to bring this back on topic, were I a high-end DSLR user I'd seriously consider skipping the next round of bells and whistles, 80% of which I'd never use, and look to up my "Technical Game" with a camera like this.

-Marc

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I think Marc hit the nail on the head. I want the absolute best no excuses solution. If it is not good enough it's ME. Like Marc if i go down it won't be the gear and any limitations or image quality issues. I guess if I close the doors i gave it all and held nothing back. Too many years in this to just accept good enough on all levels. I'm just hearing this too often and it is killing the status of working pro's and what we bring to the table for clients.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I dont really get this way of thinking, if this Pentax produces a quality file then i cant see any reason why you would consider a Phase a possible later upgrade, if anything I think you may have it the wrong way around!

If the monkey behind the camera is capable of producing quality work, then the difference between 'Pro' and 'amateur' equipment capability becomes nonsense.

You wont see the likes of LaChapelle dumping his amateur Pentax 645 for a Hassy if his next exhibition is a flop
and if you were to start listing the number of world class images captured with Nikon D40s and similar amateur gear by well known pros, well you would be here quite a while.

If your worried about your amateur Pentax failing, buy a second one! Two Pentax is still cheaper than one Mamiya, and its certainly better than one mamiya (or phase) plus a 5d11. Which is the more pro set up?

Software wise, just get Lightroom and get on with it, if its good enough for Leica................

Wrong 5 Pentax cameras and 3 Leica S2 are still not good enough . Neither one of them do a sensor plus file and LR is a general purpose software. It is not specialized to my back and will not do corrections or optimize the best high ISO images as C1 does. There is a line in the sand and I want to be on the top tier of that line. Neither solution does what Phase can do or Hassy for that matter and that is draw the absolute best out of those sensors. Trust me I been down this road with all sorts of solutions with Leica's , Nikons Canons and even backs from Phase . The new crop of 40 mpx sensors are IT and specialized software for those backs are the best solution. Will the Pentax and leica's work okay sure they will , BTW it's 4 months now and no profile for a 25 k cam. I can't buy into that sorry, I buy a back or any cam i want everything in place the day I buy. Leica is a failing grade right now for Pro work 2 lenses and no profile and a promise it will come. A promise that is like being in a stripper bar with a .25 cents in your pocket, you ain't getting a lap dance my friend. LOL

God ladies sorry but it just had to be said.

Maybe Marc can answer this better than me but there is NO SECOND chance for either one of us with the work we do. You can't risk anything, you need as rock solid as you can get.

Now am I being hard on Leica , YES I am and have been all my own Leica career with there products. The S2 is aimed at the Pro but giving us a waiting game is not what a working Pro is after and I told them this a hundred times. They need 4 or 5 lenses TODAY and working profiles if they want us to buy. The hobbyist does not have these same issues. Now i only see one Pentax lens also but they have some legacy glass that can be used which is awesome. At least it has a chance to build, Leica we are stuck withS glass. My review said it time and time again it needs to age and that is exactly what it needs for Pro shooters. It's very simple really just not enough yet.

Sorry Leica fans but i am one of there big fans too but this can't be ignored. If Pentax wants to hit the market my best advice come with 3 lenses so people can actually sell there gear and buy in.

 

[fotografz]

I don't really get this way of thinking, if this Pentax produces a quality file then I cant see any reason why you would consider a Phase a possible later upgrade, if anything I think you may have it the wrong way around!

If the monkey behind the camera is capable of producing quality work, then the difference between 'Pro' and 'amateur' equipment capability becomes nonsense.

You wont see the likes of LaChapelle dumping his amateur Pentax 645 for a Hassy if his next exhibition is a flop
and if you were to start listing the number of world class images captured with Nikon D40s and similar amateur gear by well known pros, well you would be here quite a while.

If your worried about your amateur Pentax failing, buy a second one! Two Pentax is still cheaper than one Mamiya, and it's certainly better than one mamiya (or phase) plus a 5d11. Which is the more pro set up?

Software wise, just get Lightroom and get on with it, if its good enough for Leica................

Actually, I do "get" Guy's way of thinking.

First, I wouldn't categorize this Pentax as an "Amateur" piece of equipment ... just one that may appeal to the applications of an amateur, as well as a mobile Professional looking to move into MFD ... both of whom will see the pricing as more in line with where they are and are willing to spend.

Despite the skew on this forum, an overwhelming amount of Pro MFD applications are still in the studio or on a major location productions tethered to a computer. Even on this specific forum there are a number of users that also use their MFD product on a Tech camera or view camera.

The D40 quantity argument doesn't wash IMO ... it's a different category of shooting with different demands.

Neither does the "Generic" software argument. IMO, Lightroom is far from being good enough for a $50,000. Leica S2 system, and is a major impediment to producing what that Camera may or may not be capable of. There are more than enough threads on the subject of "Proprietary Software" and the significant advantages they deliver. Using 3rd party software rather than Hasselbald's Phocus or Phase One's C1, is stepping down your game rather than stepping it up with the gear you just paid a King's Ransom for.

-Marc