Pentax countdown..........

[carstenw]

Leica is a failing grade right now for Pro work 2 lenses and no profile and a promise it will come.

I don't want to argue with anything else you said, but the 35/2.5 is now ready, and the test reports are already starting to come back. It is a winner, but for that price I guess that was a given. 3 lenses still don't make a system, but at least there is one flag in each corner now.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

WHERE. It is not shipping until April from what Leica said to me. Carsten this is maybe 3 years since the birth of this system. Announced almost 2 years ago at Photokinia and was being made for about a year before announced. That is a long time, now given it does take time to build a system no doubt it just seems a long time since it came to market and when this 3rd lens hits the streets and no CS on any of them. The question remains how long before one jumps in. Obviously we all have a different time table for that but trying to get Pro's to jump it is going to be tough at this pace. More my point is it is just taking a long time to get this system fully in the market.

 

[bensonga]

While we're on the subject of lenses....

Does anyone here have recommendations for which lenses are the standout performers (besides the 35mm, which by all accounts is excellent) and which should be avoided? Either the older manual focus or later autofocus lenses.

If the Pentax 645D camera performs well....then the obvious question is yeah, but how good are the optics?

I've always been happy with my Pentax 67 lenses, but I don't really know much about the Pentax 645 lineup. I'm guessing that prices for used ones will trend upwards now.

You know me....always thinking about the next camera system to add to my collection.

Gary

 

[fotografz]

WHERE. It is not shipping until April from what Leica said to me. Carsten this is maybe 3 years since the birth of this system. Announced almost 2 years ago at Photokinia and was being made for about a year before announced. That is a long time, now given it does take time to build a system no doubt it just seems a long time since it came to market and when this 3rd lens hits the streets and no CS on any of them. The question remains how long before one jumps in. Obviously we all have a different time table for that but trying to get Pro's to jump it is going to be tough at this pace. More my point is it is just taking a long time to get this system fully in the market.

Actually, I'm a bit worried in general about Leica ... nothing much is coming from them. Dealers are screaming for M9s due to huge back orders, many of which that have lens sales riding on camera delivery. :wtf:

-Marc

 

[Godfrey]

WHERE. It is not shipping until April from what Leica said to me. Carsten this is maybe 3 years since the birth of this system. Announced almost 2 years ago at Photokinia and was being made for about a year before announced. That is a long time, now given it does take time to build a system no doubt it just seems a long time since it came to market and when this 3rd lens hits the streets and no CS on any of them. The question remains how long before one jumps in. Obviously we all have a different time table for that but trying to get Pro's to jump it is going to be tough at this pace. More my point is it is just taking a long time to get this system fully in the market.

Guy,

Pentax has been working on the 645D since 2004. There were prototypes in 2006, again in 2008, etc. And so far they've announced one new lens along with a body ... and all the older A and FA series ones seem to be out of production.

Leica's got more going with the S2 body and two lenses than Pentax does, other than that Pentax has a number of legacy users who are beside themselves wanting this body to use their old lenses on.

 

[Oren Grad]

... and all the older A and FA series ones seem to be out of production.

This is not correct - the FA series is still in production. The 645NII camera is still available new from its final production run as well. They're just not imported to the US any more.

 

[bensonga]

This is not correct - the FA series is still in production. The 645NII camera is still available new from its final production run as well. They're just not imported to the US any more.

Oren,

That's really good to hear (I know you mentioned that in a earlier post above). Now I'm just wondering which of those FA (and the earlier A) lenses might be worth buying now....before prices on used ones go up when the 645D arrives here in the USA.

Gary

 

[Godfrey]

This is not correct - the FA series is still in production. The 645NII camera is still available new from its final production run as well. They're just not imported to the US any more.

It's good to hear they're still available somewhere ... But not in the largest photographic equipment market in the world. :-\

 

[bensonga]

Well I presume we'll get the full lineup of lenses here when the camera is actually available in the US. I don't recall seeing a date for that yet. May 2010 in Japan....no date set for the US or Europe yet or did I miss it?

Gary

 

[douglasf13]

Hmmmm...looks like a Windows only app.

Steve

RPP for mac will also show you your actual raw data, unlike nearly all of the mainstream converters.

 

[Ben Rubinstein]

This is an interesting area of discussion in itself. In every sense Ben, myself and Guy are all Pro photographers, but each of us has different demands and pressures on our businesses. I would hazard a guess that Guy is the most diversified, and best poised to weather the economic crap we live with now. IMO, unquestioned quality at the personal level fuels Guys justifications of providing the best possible solutions for all clients ... with the quality curve being at the high end .... and ALL levels of clients receive.

I have been heavily researching photographic business opportunities because everything I can find about the wedding business says it just isn't going to ever rebound to former levels even if the economy makes a full recovery. Every single guru I read said the same thing ... diversify and reinvent yourself or perish.

What I see is that if you do not follow that path, you will be squeezed until the justifications for lesser quality start ringing true to your own ears. "Good Enough" is he watch word of a segment of photography so crowed with "Good Enough" that it begins to smack of "commodity" goods.

In my personal opinion, I'd rather go under fighting my way upstream, rather than being washed over the cliff with the "Good Enough" crowd. At least I can hold my head up knowing I tried my best to deliver what I think is the best quality work (creatively and technically), and not what someone else thinks it is.

Which, to bring this back on topic, were I a high-end DSLR user I'd seriously consider skipping the next round of bells and whistles, 80% of which I'd never use, and look to up my "Technical Game" with a camera like this.

-Marc

Of course it all depends on where your definition of 'good enough' lies. Also 'good enough' compared to what?

No the cameras being used to shoot weddings around the world are only 'good enough' compared to 4X5. Compared to the P65+. I would say however that it's an utterly irrelevant comparison as wedding photography and its market (in general) does not and never has demanded that kind of level of quality. Not close to it.

We are in this game for economic reasons. We are trying to put food on the table with our businesses. As such equipment consideration must be an economically justifiable decision.

Personally I'll sink my money and energy into upping my lighting game and technique. This has all got a bit silly IMO..

I used to get upset when the wedding industry changed to 'good enough' for photography. I believe however that the tale of 'good enough' has not been relevant to megapixel count for a while now. Years. I just think that in my business, 'good enough' was passed a long time ago and we are living in the age of 'more than plenty' vis a vis IQ. The game now is to stay above the hungry pack and the line of battle is content, content, content - not the IQ of the camera.

I've been shooting weddings for 7 years. Not including event and portrait work. I'm now in the top tier of pricing for my market in the entire UK outside of London. I've never, over hundreds of weddings, ever had a complaint about IQ or even a mention about it. I've had complaints about colour (on a third set of reprints for a wedding shot in the summer where the client is demanding catalogue accurate colour on the dresses and hair while I'm still desperately trying to tone down the orange makeup) but never contrast, 3D, sharpness or detail. I've lost jobs because of style or lighting. Never because of megapixels or because I used a CMOS sensor. The top guy in my market in the UK shot weddings for years with a 10D and then a 20D. Said his clients couldn't tell the difference between his 10D and his hasselblad so why should he bother. He makes 5 times what I do with about 3 times the amount of bookings. Because he is the best at what he does. Visually. More to the point, he knows what equipment he needs to surpass client expectations and as a good business man doesn't see the need to provide more for no gain.

 

[Quentin_Bargate]

50k shutter? hmm. Seems low for a pro cam. Must not be a pro cam...

Looks like a marketer-designed camera to me...take features a mid-range DSLR has and put them into a medium format cam (which it isn't quite as it's not full frame 645). SD cards, 11 point AF, etc.

Interesting but will pros buy this combination? Will high-end amateurs buy it?

For the price...yes.

Quentin

 

[Photon]

Here 's a hands-on of the 645 : http://translate.google.com/transla...review/pview/20100315_353742.html&sl=ja&tl=en

Warmest,

Ton

http://www.tonvanmourik.com/

 

[tjv]

Watched the videos and it seems a really well designed and solid camera. Very promising indeed! The current exchange rate would mean I could buy one here in NZ for less than the price of a new D3x... Makes you think!

 

[fotografz]

Of course it all depends on where your definition of 'good enough' lies. Also 'good enough' compared to what?

No the cameras being used to shoot weddings around the world are only 'good enough' compared to 4X5. Compared to the P65+. I would say however that it's an utterly irrelevant comparison as wedding photography and its market (in general) does not and never has demanded that kind of level of quality. Not close to it.

We are in this game for economic reasons. We are trying to put food on the table with our businesses. As such equipment consideration must be an economically justifiable decision.

Personally I'll sink my money and energy into upping my lighting game and technique. This has all got a bit silly IMO..

I used to get upset when the wedding industry changed to 'good enough' for photography. I believe however that the tale of 'good enough' has not been relevant to megapixel count for a while now. Years. I just think that in my business, 'good enough' was passed a long time ago and we are living in the age of 'more than plenty' vis a vis IQ. The game now is to stay above the hungry pack and the line of battle is content, content, content - not the IQ of the camera.

I've been shooting weddings for 7 years. Not including event and portrait work. I'm now in the top tier of pricing for my market in the entire UK outside of London. I've never, over hundreds of weddings, ever had a complaint about IQ or even a mention about it. I've had complaints about colour (on a third set of reprints for a wedding shot in the summer where the client is demanding catalogue accurate colour on the dresses and hair while I'm still desperately trying to tone down the orange makeup) but never contrast, 3D, sharpness or detail. I've lost jobs because of style or lighting. Never because of megapixels or because I used a CMOS sensor. The top guy in my market in the UK shot weddings for years with a 10D and then a 20D. Said his clients couldn't tell the difference between his 10D and his hasselblad so why should he bother. He makes 5 times what I do with about 3 times the amount of bookings. Because he is the best at what he does. Visually. More to the point, he knows what equipment he needs to surpass client expectations and as a good business man doesn't see the need to provide more for no gain.

I don't think that is the narrow context of this "good enough" discussion, and is specifically related to a $9,400. MFD camera Ben ... not a 4X5 or P65+. This Pentax is not much more money than a 1DsMKIII or D3X which a lot of wedding shooters use. Not a majority, but a lot more than you might think. I do believe that many shooters that moved to the higher meg 35mm Pro DSLRs did so because of their style of photography, or to distance themselves from the masses now using ProSumer cams and hanging out a shingle as a "Pro" Wedding photographer.

I'd also speculate that clients may never comment on IQ unless presented with better than they are used to seeing. I have had clients comment on how clear the photos are on a 30" cinema display ... and it's quite often MFD shots that solicit those responses. They don't care what was used, it's the results that count. One of my former assistants now shows his work on a giant screen, and sells a huge amount of prints compared to before doing that presentation technique. People don't buy what they can't see.

Now, whether one can turn all that into more business and profit is another subject. That has a lot to do with the diversification I mentioned. I firmly believe that wedding photography will become more and more of a difficult way to put bread on the table, and other avenues must take up the slack.

In the end, I could be satisfied with a certain level of IQ for 90% of my work ... the fly in the ointment is having tasted the higher IQ ... from then on, the rest loses its appeal as you strive for your personal best.

Agree with the lighting priority BTW. For wedding work I find this subject the most difficult equipment area of them all. Where the camera lens subject is more cut and dry, portable lighting is the bane of my existence for weddings. Clients are so darned impatient, and are expecting/demanding more and more different shots while paying less and less. Weight, convenience, battery power, speed of set-up, ability to schlep it all over the place, etc. just makes it a nightmare.

-Marc

 

[Oren Grad]

But not in the largest photographic equipment market in the world. :-\

And neither is the camera, yet. Part of the hangup for them surely must be figuring out whether sales of the camera here, even if it's wildly successful for a model at that price point, will be enough to justify the overhead involved in bringing back the lenses as well and setting up to service the thing here.

 

[Terry]

And neither is the camera, yet. Part of the hangup for them surely must be figuring out whether sales of the camera here, even if it's wildly successful for a model at that price point, will be enough to justify the overhead involved in bringing back the lenses as well and setting up to service the thing here.

Hopefully they can figure it out.

Ricoh backed out of the US Market but the high end GRD + a few others cameras were available by a couple of dealers (PopFlash and Adorama). If you had problems those few dealers dealt with it and got it back to Ricoh (I never needed to use the service).

 

[Aaron]

I firmly believe that wedding photography will become more and more of a difficult way to put bread on the table, and other avenues must take up the slack.

-Marc

Interesting observation, at least you are aware of the trend. Wedding Photography in the UK is a 'race to the bottom' at the moment.

Strange thing is that a lot of Pros are oblivious to where its going and seem to believe that things will pick up soon, not going to happen.

Our wedding enquiries are way up but getting a contract signed is ten times as hard as it was a couple of years ago. My studio has operated in the 'mid-upper end' of the wedding market for about 10 years, its dog eat dog now. Its also not helped by the number of other photographers 'diversifying' into the wedding market, while it was always cooler to say you shot fashion and editorial now most of the competition are happy to pay the mortgage and chase weddings.

The interesting thing is that now the commercial shooters around me get to see how easy an advertising exec. is to please compared to a bride on her wedding day Its a stressful and exhausting way to make a living.

I dont think MFD has much of a role to play in modern wedding photography.

 

[neil]

Re Lens availability

I have been trying to search on the Japanese Yodobashi camera shop to work out which lens are available for the Pentax.

This link shows the Pentax stock at the shop. Camera and new digital lens is under reservation.
http://www.yodobashi.com/ec/categor...dname&sorttyp=SELL_PRICE_DESC&mkrs=0000035700

 

[Ben Rubinstein]

Interesting observation, at least you are aware of the trend. Wedding Photography in the UK is a 'race to the bottom' at the moment.

Strange thing is that a lot of Pros are oblivious to where its going and seem to believe that things will pick up soon, not going to happen.

Our wedding enquiries are way up but getting a contract signed is ten times as hard as it was a couple of years ago. My studio has operated in the 'mid-upper end' of the wedding market for about 10 years, its dog eat dog now. Its also not helped by the number of other photographers 'diversifying' into the wedding market, while it was always cooler to say you shot fashion and editorial now most of the competition are happy to pay the mortgage and chase weddings.

The interesting thing is that now the commercial shooters around me get to see how easy an advertising exec. is to please compared to a bride on her wedding day Its a stressful and exhausting way to make a living.

I dont think MFD has much of a role to play in modern wedding photography.

I'm lucky in that my market, Orthodox Jewish Weddings, follow a specific formal/documentary style and are actually quite difficult to shoot if you have no experience of them and their associated customs and ceremonies. The Chassidic weddings for example can differ greatly not only from regular Orthodox weddings but even depending on which Chassidic 'sect' or 'clan' is involved. It does narrow the competition down to pretty much only Orthodox or traditionally Jewish photographers who know the intricate ins and outs of the weddings involved. That said the competition in my neck of the woods has become much more fierce from just 3 shooters seven years ago to now 7 in a relatively small market. I know that for my market the answer is not MF. Heck I'll be the only shooter with a 21 megapixel camera (when it arrives tomorrow). It's lighting, capturing moments, style, personality, client interaction and of course the always annoying price. I'm not willing to even think of bargaining on the latter. Although, as with every niche market, when the prices are high the clientele are fewer, decending to the lower price points is just not an option. Don't need to revert to the rat race where the opposition is fierce nor do I want to turn back the clock on years of making it to my current price point.