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Thread: why i shoot with C645

  1. #51
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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    I think what we are proving here is that there is no single system; I actually have four (counting the Alpa) and am looking at a fifth. Why? well, there are times when one of the four isnt the right tool.
    The H3 system has a lot; maybe it is tops, certainly tempted me (and 'closed'? that's just a concept-if it did everything who would care.

    But, you arent doing stop motion even at 1/1000. And it is pretty big and (dare I say? sure it is BUTT UGLY)

    The Contax is smaller than most SLRs in my hand and the AF is fast enough for me

    but telephoto? I want my DMR and Leica modular (1200mm 5.6 equivalent) and the M8, for walkaround and just neat public stuff.

    And if you think about high strobe synch-get over it; get a large enough strobe, set a low ISO and high f value (watch that diffraction )and the ambient light isnt going to smudge anythig.

    and here they come; small nuclear missles from detroitr, a few more from Florida, and what's that? more from that Pacific island?...

    hey, let's stop this- simple duel, Holgas at 20 paces

    No missles from me. I agree. Hasselblad H and Hasselblad V for MF. Canon and/or Nikon for weddings and whatever needs AF blitz, Leica M and DMR for street, travel ... and me : -)

    (BTW, the refrence to flash sync speeds isn't relegated to just studio ... think "outdoor fill flash.")

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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by irakly View Post
    man, you need to brush up your studio lighting skills
    both pics are huge nopers, but you are right, no motion blur
    Well, I am sure I have to improve ALL my skills. However...

    In all fairness to the person whose lighting this was, and who set it up, (not me) this was just an out-take while goofing around with the fans (which were only 'hefty' in the sense that that's where we put them after the shoot-in a hefy bag!)

    BTW is that your Kodak c on ebay?
    Last edited by gogopix; 17th April 2008 at 04:39.

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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Easy guys my wallet is about to burst into flames
    Here's a shot of my Sinar rep going after what's left of my wallet...

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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by foto-z View Post
    The Rollei 6000/Hy6 range should be even 'faster' when some of the announced lenses are available (later this year I hope):

    Tele-Biometar 2,8/150 mm
    Thanks Thierry for clarifying this was a misprint during the Hy6 launch.
    I had asked about it in Winter 2006, and was told there was no such lens on the roadmap.

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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by thsinar View Post

    - Please have a look again on the "tiny" display in a couple of weeks: the OLED display has been changed in the new delivered eMotion backs and has now a size of 2.5". It might not be yet the 3" size of the new H3DII TFT display, but I can assure you that you will be able to use it outdoors under daylight conditions: it is a OLED display, as mentioned, and as such brighter by at least 1 stop than a LCD display.
    Best regards,
    Thierry
    Thierry,

    Over at the L-L forum, I read there will be an upgrade to the new 2.5" size for existing owner's eMotion digital backs. Has a price in Euro been established, yet?

    Reference: http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/...dpost&p=190070

  6. #56
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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    If I people listed the reasons why they like a camera system and then weighted each aspect of that reasoning by % importance - then we could have a logic to a discussion.


    Cheers
    Pete
    Peter,
    I am so glad someone (you) mentioned this point. This was sort of what I was trying to get folks to think about in that other thread I had started a week or so ago. A person shooting in studio, with lots of light control, etc., may not be as interested in a "fast lens", but then again, they might.

    This discussion has not gone off track, but for a while, I felt like I was trying to read and follow storylines in 3-4 separate books

    Lots of good points being made, but it does get back understanding what the planned use for any of the gear is. Personally, my own mind has not been completely set on some of this.....Contax w/Aptus, Sinar Hy6, Hasselblad, etc., and both the back and lens stories become more interesting based on what the gear is being used to shoot. I do not think any of it really seems all that bad, but it is pretty clear that some rigs may work better for some shooting situation than others. All can be made to do the job....just maybe not as easily or as simply as one may want or need or wish for.

    LJ

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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by thsinar View Post
    - Please have a look again on the "tiny" display in a couple of weeks: the OLED display has been changed in the new delivered eMotion backs and has now a size of 2.5".
    Best regards,
    Thierry
    Thierry,

    Would you be kind enough to explain this in a bit more detail. Sounds like this is something for new backs not yet released.

  8. #58
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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Yes, BJNY; you can actually read it here in this tread as well, a very few posts below yours.

    Prices for the upgrade have been communicated to our distributors: it does not only concern the new display, but also new internal electronic board.

    This upgrade will be available in a first step and starting now, for the Sinar Hy6 - eMotion 75 LV system and this until May 31st: this upgrade does include the new revolving adapter.

    As of June 01st 2008, the possibility to upgrade a Sinarback eMotion 75/75LV as described above will be available also without the Revolving adapter.

    To be considered: this Hy6 - eMotion 75 LV system upgrade path is offered during the limited period with a discount of about 30% from its normal enduser price.

    Recommended enduser price, respectively enduser price in Switzerland for the upgrade of this "Sinar Hy6 - e75 LV" should be (as always, can vary from country to country) around Euro 1'850.- (including the revolving adapter), from now until May 31st 2008.

    Recommended enduser price respectively enduser price in Switzerland for the upgrade of eMotion 75 or 75 LV should be (as always, can vary from country to country) around Euro 1'500.- (excluding the revolving adapter), as per June 01st 2008.

    Best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by BJNY View Post
    Thierry,

    Over at the L-L forum, I read there will be an upgrade to the new 2.5" size for existing owner's eMotion digital backs. Has a price in Euro been established, yet?

    Reference: http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/...dpost&p=190070

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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    Peter,
    I am so glad someone (you) mentioned this point. This was sort of what I was trying to get folks to think about in that other thread I had started a week or so ago. A person shooting in studio, with lots of light control, etc., may not be as interested in a "fast lens", but then again, they might.

    This discussion has not gone off track, but for a while, I felt like I was trying to read and follow storylines in 3-4 separate books

    Lots of good points being made, but it does get back understanding what the planned use for any of the gear is. Personally, my own mind has not been completely set on some of this.....Contax w/Aptus, Sinar Hy6, Hasselblad, etc., and both the back and lens stories become more interesting based on what the gear is being used to shoot. I do not think any of it really seems all that bad, but it is pretty clear that some rigs may work better for some shooting situation than others. All can be made to do the job....just maybe not as easily or as simply as one may want or need or wish for.

    LJ
    Frankly the exact reason some of us have three systems. You want speed and wide open than 35mm is the ticket , you want stealth great files and the leica glass than your looking at the M8 and frankly MF is not a speed camera and mostly used in controlled situations . Of course Marc uses it for weddings and others as well and it is nice to have speed but all of this depends on need. If i could have one system it would combine all three but that is impossible to get. For a guy like me that is called into many different types of work. 3 systems is almost a given but for others that shoot specific things only than gear will be purchased for that purpose alone. Frankly the compare between the MF systems is almost a moot point. Everyone of them is going to give you a great file. Some may have a different look to them and have better glass and such but when you get down to the file level there all like cousins of each other. You already are into the best detail, biggest DR when you just step into MF. The rest is the gravy part
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  10. #60
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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Welcome BJNY!

    Although the mentioned "Tele-Biometar 2,8/150 mm", according to my knowledge, is a "Schneider AFD Tele-Xenar 4/150 HFT PQS"

    Best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by BJNY View Post
    Thanks Thierry for clarifying this was a misprint during the Hy6 launch.
    I had asked about it in Winter 2006, and was told there was no such lens on the roadmap.

  11. #61
    thsinar
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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Please read my previous post: this was just announced, pretty new.

    Best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Thierry,

    Would you be kind enough to explain this in a bit more detail. Sounds like this is something for new backs not yet released.

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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by thsinar View Post
    Prices for the upgrade have been communicated to our distributors: it does not only concern the new display, but also new internal electronic board.
    Best regards,
    Thierry
    You can call me Billy, Thierry.

    Is the new internal electronic board strictly for the new 2.5" OLED display
    or does it change some other characteristics (better high ISO performance?)

  13. #63
    thsinar
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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    PS and on a side note: I do not want to hijack this "Contax" tread with "my stuff".

    Sorry about that.

    Thierry

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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    I've never known threads to stay on course.

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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    Well, I am sure I have to improve ALL my skills. However...

    In all fairness to the person whose lighting this was, and who set it up, (not me) this was just an out-take while goofing around with the fans (which were only 'hefty' in the sense that that's where we put them after the shoot-in a hefy bag!)

    BTW is that your Kodak c on ebay?
    kill the guy

    no, it is not my back. i have not shot pictures of it yet this one is identical, though.

  16. #66
    thsinar
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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Hi Billy,

    ALL ugrades to the new 2.5" display will automatically get the new electronical board as well. In fact, you get a BRAND NEW e75 /e75 LV for this price.

    This new electronic board is meant to improve ISO performance as well as general quality.

    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by BJNY View Post
    You can call me Billy, Thierry.

    Is the new internal electronic board strictly for the new 2.5" OLED display
    or does it change some other characteristics (better high ISO performance?)

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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Does the new board also affect frequency of black reference files, and shooting speed when tethered?

    How fast is this swap done? My friend who uses the e75lv is in Italy at the moment, and I'm sure he'd like to do the upgrade.

  18. #68
    thsinar
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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by BJNY View Post
    Does the new board also affect frequency of black reference files, and shooting speed when tethered?
    I don't think so, Billy, nothing such was mentioned to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by BJNY View Post
    How fast is this swap done?
    Our distributors have to place order for the upgrade and they will then be informed when the new back is ready, in order to minimize this swap-time: I guess that starting June 01st all will be in place to have the swap done in a few days.

    Thierry

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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Frankly the exact reason some of us have three systems. You want speed and wide open than 35mm is the ticket , you want stealth great files and the leica glass than your looking at the M8 and frankly MF is not a speed camera and mostly used in controlled situations . Of course Marc uses it for weddings and others as well and it is nice to have speed but all of this depends on need. If i could have one system it would combine all three but that is impossible to get. For a guy like me that is called into many different types of work. 3 systems is almost a given but for others that shoot specific things only than gear will be purchased for that purpose alone. Frankly the compare between the MF systems is almost a moot point. Everyone of them is going to give you a great file. Some may have a different look to them and have better glass and such but when you get down to the file level there all like cousins of each other. You already are into the best detail, biggest DR when you just step into MF. The rest is the gravy part
    Guy,
    All good points, and agree about different gear being better suited to different uses. I have that same thing going on now with the Canon DSLRs and the M8, so not unfamiliar with the issue. Also agree that the MF files are the ticket for all those good things we are discussing. My confusion or whatever comes back down to the MF kit and how that is being used. Marc does push his Hasselblad system into all sorts of things with superb results. It still has some areas where other systems could be a better choice. (Not nit-picking here, Marc )

    That is why it is so great to see folks talking about the applications of their gear. That is the stuff that I think helps understand more about the overall utility, etc. Not trying to get everything covered by one system or set-up, though that may be possible with some concessions, but more to think about what will be put to work for which job. No doubt, I ain't shootin' polo with any MF rigs....none of them can meet those needs for my shooting. However, doing the product shots and PR stuff is a different story. There the higher flash sync for fill shooting outdoors matters a lot. Conversely, if I were doing lots of landscape shooting, I may think more about something like the ZD or others where higher shutter speeds in brighter light are important without having to resort to filters and other things to control exposure more accurately.

    Not getting into a discussion about the files at all, as that needs little convincing for most folks. That comes down to the glass and the box, and what the best combination is there for the type of shooting one is doing. Doing stop-down metering for more rapidly changing settings seems like a non-starter to my way of thinking, but that may just be me. Using a tripod all the time with heavy glass may not be on everybody's list of fun things to take traveling. So comparing studio shots to outdoor landscape panos is nice, but how easy/hard/involved/simple setting some of that up and using which gear helps folks think about those practical aspects also.

    Seems like one can make a great argument for just about any MF system. The more interesting part, to me and some others I think, is understanding why folks selected what they have and what the reasons for those selections were. It may be something as simple as cost, and all the other factors or inconveniences are accepted. It may be newest features and AF, so that starts to eliminate other things. It may be for travel. It may be studio portrait shooting only. It may be a wonderful collection of Zeiss glass that one does not want to part with.

    Anyway, all of this is really helpful.

    LJ

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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by thsinar View Post
    PS and on a side note: I do not want to hijack this "Contax" tread with "my stuff".

    Sorry about that.

    Thierry
    What I would really like is for someone to pipe in with experience of Sinar on the Contax system!

    David?

  21. #71
    thsinar
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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Someone with experience of Sinar with Contax --->

    Rainer Viertlböck, German photographer, member of this forum.

    www.tangential.de

    Best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    What I would really like is for someone to pipe in with experience of Sinar on the Contax system!

    David?

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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by irakly View Post
    kill the guy

    no, it is not my back. i have not shot pictures of it yet this one is identical, though.
    Cut him some slack (not his throat!) he's an architecture guy, might have thought they were statues (statues dont mind double catchlites)

    anyway, have you ever tried a sinar/jenoptic on the Contax? I know of Rainer, and I THOUGHT David used the sinar, but David, it's the Aptus, yes?

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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    What I would really like is for someone to pipe in with experience of Sinar on the Contax system!

    David?
    This thread has become so convoluted that it is hard to keep the original intent of this "why i shoot Contax" thread. In an effort to put it back on track, I will try to make clear my reasons for shooting Contax....but not exclusively.

    First, why I still shoot Contax:
    - I need to have an autofocus camera that can shoot faster than 1/500 or 1/800. Only cameras with focal plane shutters can do this. Mamiya, Phase, and Contax are the only choices here.
    - I need a camera to accept Hasselblad CFi,CFE, AND FE lenses. Again, Mamiya, Phase, and Contax can all do this.
    - I need to have a camera that can accept a waist level finder (for lightweight travel as well as various macro and copy work). This means the Contax becomes the only choice for me.
    - I also prefer the compact Sunpak DX-12R TTL ring flash, which works beautifully on the Contax, especially with the 110/2 Planar. I have never been able to confirm whether there is a true TTL adapter that would work on the Mamiya/Phase.
    - And, the above system must be travel-friendly. Again, Contax+WLF+55 is the smallest MF kit currently possible (with my above criteria).
    - Lastly, I have always preferred the Zeiss/Schneider/Rodenstock glass over the Mamiya/Fuji glass. This is HIGHLY subjective, and I am only stating my personal preference here. Neither lens maker can be said to be inferior.

    OK, I also accept that the Contax 645 does not do everything. That is why I switched from Phase to Sinar for my digital back. The Phase gives probably the best quality, out-of-the-camera single shot image (for argument sake, let's say as good as the H3DII too). The Sinar gives a different look that I have come to like better, especially with some lenses; however, it takes a little more work in post-processing.

    I was wiling to make that trade-off in post-processing effort for the freedom that a single back across multiple camera systems now gives me. (BTW, I did not go with the Hasselblad CF backs, since they do not support their own Hasselblad 200 series cameras...and I like the color rendition of the Sinar better - another personal preference here)

    I also shoot other cameras, like the Sinar Hy6 and the Hasselblad 200 series, using the same Sinar e75LV back. This gives me the added ability of high flash sync (1/1000), or auto-stopdown of the Hasselblad FE lenses, and also positions me better for any future square sensors.

    So, I chose this direction as my direction. I did not see any way for the H3D system to accommodate potentially new square sensors. I like the idea of adding the Hy6 that can potentially take either 645 or 66 full frame sensors....but really I look forward most to using the revolving back with 645

    Also, the ability to deal with images from one back across all camera systems cannot be underestimated. This allows you to have a common workflow for your photography, regardless of what camera system you actually use. Whether I shoot with the Contax, Hy6, Hasselblad 200, Alpa, Linhof ... my workfow is the same. You can use the same software that you are accustomed to such as Lightroom or ACR ... And yes, even Capture One to develop the raw files (after converted to DNG).
    Last edited by David Klepacki; 17th April 2008 at 10:29.

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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    David,
    Thanks for taking the effort to outline and explain your choices. THIS is great food for thought. I share a lot of your thoughts about the Sinar back and the ability to work across a few systems as needed. Lots of utility there for sure.

    After thinking more about this, it really starts to seem like quite a loss not to have had Contax continue with a new body that had more updated features and capabilities, as well as preserving so much of its flexibility. It actually fills a very practical niche that is now being left open to some degree, except for coverage by existing used gear.

    LJ

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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Well said David , you choices got across the fence line well. It gives more reason for certain choices. My decision was purely on cost at this point to be honest . At 8400 for a Mamiya , 80 lens and a 22mpx pack was a deal i could not refuse. So for me right now i will deal with the limitations there is to my system but I can buy some leaf shutter lenses to and for fill outdoors is a good thought since 1/125 on my focal plane is not going to cut it
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    ... After thinking more about this, it really starts to seem like quite a loss not to have had Contax continue with a new body that had more updated features and capabilities, as well as preserving so much of its flexibility. It actually fills a very practical niche that is now being left open to some degree, except for coverage by existing used gear.

    LJ
    LJ, that was part of my point about the Contax. Even the latest and greatest camera body from Mamiya and Phase (which is just now starting to ship) does not have the features of the "old" Contax 645.

    The latest and greatest Mamiya AFD /Phase camera does not have things such as in-camera flash meter and interchangeable viewfinders, nor a precision geared autobellows like for the Contax. In fact, I cannot find any overwhelming feature/capability of the newest Mamiya/Phase camera that is strong enough to choose over the Contax system. The only exception is perhaps their 28mm lens, but in that case I would prefer using the Alpa for ultra-wide work.

    I hope you are right, in that someday someone will make an open 645 system with all the benefits of the Contax 645....but that day could be long in coming.

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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Well said David , you choices got across the fence line well. It gives more reason for certain choices. My decision was purely on cost at this point to be honest . At 8400 for a Mamiya , 80 lens and a 22mpx pack was a deal i could not refuse. So for me right now i will deal with the limitations there is to my system but I can buy some leaf shutter lenses to and for fill outdoors is a good thought since 1/125 on my focal plane is not going to cut it
    Guy, first I think you made a GREAT buy with the Mamiya. Despite my need to defend my Contax colleagues, I think stepping into MF digital is the best step you can make, period, regardless of system.

    As I stated above, the Mamiya is very very similar to the Contax system. If they get their act in gear and deliver those leaf shutter lenses for that system, as advertised, I think it would then be more versatile than my beloved Contax. My only gripe is the WLF. Why does Mamiya avoid this?

    If the day ever comes that Mamiya/Phase build a camera with WLF and leaf shutter lenses, I think I may have to jump ship myself!

  28. #78
    DougDolde
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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Adorama currently has a much larger C645 lens selection online than usual.

    http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?o...us&cat3=Lenses

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by David Klepacki View Post
    Guy, first I think you made a GREAT buy with the Mamiya. Despite my need to defend my Contax colleagues, I think stepping into MF digital is the best step you can make, period, regardless of system.

    As I stated above, the Mamiya is very very similar to the Contax system. If they get their act in gear and deliver those leaf shutter lenses for that system, as advertised, I think it would then be more versatile than my beloved Contax. My only gripe is the WLF. Why does Mamiya avoid this?

    If the day ever comes that Mamiya/Phase build a camera with WLF and leaf shutter lenses, I think I may have to jump ship myself!
    Thanks David , it is a good start and that is important right there alone.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    I THOUGHT David used the sinar, but David, it's the Aptus, yes?
    Not sure which David you meant but you got an answer from the other David K I'll have my Sinar Hy6 kit next week but maybe not the Contax adapter yet. On a side note I find it interesting that Leaf seems to be mostly left out of consideration these days... talking new kits, not used. My feeling is that Sinar's Hy6 kit may have trumped Leaf with their adapter system (not to mention their somewhat higher pricing). This to me is a shame because I have been very happy with my Aptus backs, but I'm guessing Thierry is not losing sleep over this.

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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    ... My feeling is that Sinar's Hy6 kit may have trumped Leaf with their adapter system (not to mention their somewhat higher pricing). This to me is a shame because I have been very happy with my Aptus backs, but I'm guessing Thierry is not losing sleep over this.
    You bring up a great point. The images from the Leaf are certainly as good as the others, but their dedicated backs could be a serious detriment to them. The high cost of these backs will bring into question the longevity and flexibility of such an investment.

    Leaf will have a tough road ahead of them ... maybe very tough. I see only two ways of staying alive. One is to be able to reduce costs significantly so that they are at the same level as the Mamiya. But even then, at the same price I don't want a camera that only takes one back (or vice versa).

    The other option for them is to innovate. One example would be to add a focal plane shutter to their AFi body. Another example would be for them to exploit their large LCD screens further by integrating a focusing sensor/mechanism into their Aptus backs. Such a back would take the place of a SLR, and so could provide live-view "through-the sensor focus confirmation" and be used on Alpa rangefinder and any other system that would otherwise need a sliding back adapter to focus.

    Otherwise, if they don't do something...soon....I am afraid it is only a matter of time that they will perish.

  32. #82
    DougDolde
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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    It's only a matter of time until We All perish.

  33. #83
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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by David Klepacki View Post
    The latest and greatest Mamiya AFD /Phase camera does not have things such as in-camera flash meter and interchangeable viewfinders, nor a precision geared autobellows like for the Contax. that is strong enough to choose over the Contax system. The only exception is perhaps their 28mm lens, but in that case I would prefer using the Alpa for ultra-wide work.

    In fact, I cannot find any overwhelming feature/capability of the newest Mamiya/Phase camera
    The Contax 645 was such a good, well thought out camera. To bad Kyocera bailed on it. The 645-II would have been something else.

    Here's a message for Hasselblad:

    come out with a focal plane shutter H3 body. Available technology should make it possible for 1/8000th and 1/250 sync. Keep all the rest the same. Add camera firmware that recognizes the FE optics as well as the CF/CFi/CFE lenses for use on a fully automatic adapter.

    Place me on the top of the list to get one.

    Thank you.

  34. #84
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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    ...

    Here's a message for Hasselblad:

    come out with a focal plane shutter H3 body. Available technology should make it possible for 1/8000th and 1/250 sync. Keep all the rest the same. Add camera firmware that recognizes the FE optics as well as the CF/CFi/CFE lenses for use on a fully automatic adapter.

    Place me on the top of the list to get one.

    Thank you.
    Now that would force me to eat humble pie! You just ruined my day....they may listen to you.

    Sinar, if you are listening, please think about adding a focal plane shutter to the Hy6 as well.

  35. #85
    Senior Member irakly's Avatar
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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    WWWOWWW! now i have to make some dough...


    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    The Contax 645 was such a good, well thought out camera. To bad Kyocera bailed on it. The 645-II would have been something else.

    Here's a message for Hasselblad:

    come out with a focal plane shutter H3 body. Available technology should make it possible for 1/8000th and 1/250 sync. Keep all the rest the same. Add camera firmware that recognizes the FE optics as well as the CF/CFi/CFE lenses for use on a fully automatic adapter.

    Place me on the top of the list to get one.

    Thank you.

  36. #86
    DougDolde
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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    On the Carl Zeiss website there are so clues <maybe> that something will happen in the future with Contax. Maybe she ain't dead forever. Click the Contax link on this page:

    http://www.zeiss.com/c12567a8003b58b...25711800592377

    Highlights are;

    1. Who owns the "Contax" brand?
    The "Contax" brand belongs to Carl Zeiss. Carl Zeiss has granted a license to Kyocera for the use of the "Contax" brand. In return, Kyocera has undertaken to purchase the lenses for all "Contax" cameras from Carl Zeiss.

    2. What will happen to the Contax brand in the future?
    Under the brand name CONTAX, Kyocera – Kyoto Ceramics has launched excellent cameras with Carl Zeiss lenses on the market for many years. We regret that Kyocera has decided not to continue these activities in accordance with an agreement signed on April 12, 2005.

    However, there is still a contract between Carl Zeiss and Kyocera governing the exclusive use of the CONTAX brand by Kyocera. Since this contract will remain in effect for several more years, we cannot yet provide any concrete information on future developments.

  37. #87
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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Also, Hasselblad would have to let go of their proprietary software, and create genuine portable DNG files ... that would do it for a lot of people.

  38. #88
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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    Since this contract will remain in effect for several more years, we cannot yet provide any concrete information on future developments.
    Doug, I would be as happy as anyone to see a revival of the line, but I am not holding my breath on this.

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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by David Klepacki View Post
    Now that would force me to eat humble pie! You just ruined my day....they may listen to you.

    Sinar, if you are listening, please think about adding a focal plane shutter to the Hy6 as well.
    Actually, my dealer just left my studio after setting up the H3D/39/Rodenstock 120 macro/Xact-II using Phocus (sweet) ... he like my idea a lot and is going to send my H3DFP suggestion on to the powers that be at Hasselblad.

    It's a no brainer ... the camera is ready for it ... unless they're already up to something ...

  40. #90
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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by David Klepacki View Post
    Also, Hasselblad would have to let go of their proprietary software, and create genuine portable DNG files ... that would do it for a lot of people.
    There's already DNGs built in for Flexcolor and Phocus, they'd just have to make it a click option or preference selection to have it work in the background when downloading like the way Sinar is doing it. DNGs in the camera doesn't work so well for 39 meg files as it slows down the process.

    Hasselblad also needs to have the DAC corrections migrate to DNGs when converting ... but maybe Phocus will have that ... it's not finished yet.

    DNGs are okay for processing lots of shots, but LR and other 3rd party software isn't as good as Flex or Phocus.

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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Actually, my dealer just left my studio after setting up the H3D/39/Rodenstock 120 macro/Xact-II using Phocus (sweet) ... he like my idea a lot and is going to send my H3DFP suggestion on to the powers that be at Hasselblad.

    It's a no brainer ... the camera is ready for it ... unless they're already up to something ...
    Well...for me to ever think about going completely to a Hasselblad body, they would have to revive the 200 series, updated for digital and with revolving back and full frame square sensor support, and of course auto focus digital versions of their best CFE/FE lenses...I think it is just too tall an order, and Sinar has a better chance at achieving most of this capability with follow on cameras to the Hy6. I guess we can only wait and see.

  42. #92
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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by David Klepacki View Post
    Well...for me to ever think about going completely to a Hasselblad body, they would have to revive the 200 series, updated for digital and with revolving back and full frame square sensor support, and of course auto focus digital versions of their best CFE/FE lenses...I think it is just too tall an order, and Sinar has a better chance at achieving most of this capability with follow on cameras to the Hy6. I guess we can only wait and see.
    I don't think the notion is to win you over David. It's to further expand the working tools available to the far greater body of Hasselblad H users out there plying their trade. A focal plane H body would further enhance the decision they have already made ... and, like me, in practical application provide access to lenses they may well aready have.

    I think the Hy6 system is terrific. I had a demo in studio. However, nothing impressive enough to jump ship, especially the 80mm. It didn't seem to impress Irakly either, and he is a die-in-the-wool Rollei user, with little to no interest in Hasselblad. If the Hy6 offered a Focal Plane option my interest would've been much higher ... it would be a natural sucessor to the Hasselblad 200 series. But very few pros I know would care about that option if it cost 50K to impliment. A focal plane H body would probable run less than 1/10th of that.

    Personally, I'm loath to drop another 50K+ on yet another leaf shutter system that basically duplicates what I already have just to gain to access to a few breathtakingly expensive AF lenses no matter how good they are, and no paying client could care a farthing about. Esoteric internet debates on bokeh and edge gradations are one thing, business is another ... and business in the US will have to get a LOT better before a mimimium of 50K+ is dumped on some idylic etherial pursuit.

    To expand on this: perhaps the tall order isn't Hasselblad's ... it's Zeiss'. Schneider has stepped up with AF lenses for the Hy6 system. Zeiss is blocked from using the Contax name and it is unclear what hold Kyocera has on the 645 AF Zeiss lenses they manufactured under license to Zeiss and branded as Contax... but it's clear they not making any.

    It's the interesting aspect of the whole MF market right now. Zeiss dominance in the market for so long, the market going to 645AFD primarily due to sensor sizes, but also partially due to their excellent Contax 645 lens offerings ... then being blocked from the market they helped pioneer.

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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Personally, I'm loath to drop another 50K+ on yet another leaf shutter system that basically duplicates what I already have just to gain to access to a few breathtakingly expensive AF lenses no matter how good they are
    Exactly... and that goes for all of us I'm sure. This is what tipped the balance toward Sinar for me. For the cost of an adapter, about $1800, you have access to a whole 'nother camera platform. BTW, why are these adapters so expensive. The Mamiya 645 to RZ adapter for the ZD back costs $649. Some of these back accessories seem to be priced like parts for my boat (if it's got the word marine in it, just triple the price). Another example, Mamiya's ZD back batteries at around $170 each are available for about $10 if you do some digging.

  44. #94
    thsinar
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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    David,

    to answer your question about the adapter prices:

    - the price range for the eMotion adapters goes from Euro 365.- (adapter Sinar Hy6) to Euro 1'128.- (Revolving adapter for the Sinar Hy6 and adapter for the Rolleiflex 6008)

    - the price range for the Sinarback 54 series and eVolution 75H goes from Euro 299.- (adapter for Sinar m) to Euro 852.- (adapter for Mamiya RZ and Rolleiflex 6008)

    Those are recommended enduser prices which can vary from one country to another.

    As you can see, adapter prices are depending on different factors: the type of back, the type of communication between camera and back and the mechanical difficulty. Most adapters nowadays have internal electronics and contacts, some adapters do even have an internal specific firmware.
    Most of the time it is not a simple mechanical part.

    Best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    ... BTW, why are these adapters so expensive.

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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Thierry,

    Thank you for your clarification on adapter prices... always better to have the real facts as opposed to misinformation. I have been quoted $1800 for the Contax 645 adapter and a similar price for the revolving adapter and mistakenly assumed they were all about the same. BTW, I've said this before but it's worth repeating I think. Your active participation on this and other forums is another factor that has made me feel comfortable about moving to Sinar.

  46. #96
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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Exactly... and that goes for all of us I'm sure. This is what tipped the balance toward Sinar for me. For the cost of an adapter, about $1800, you have access to a whole 'other camera platform. BTW, why are these adapters so expensive. The Mamiya 645 to RZ adapter for the ZD back costs $649. Some of these back accessories seem to be priced like parts for my boat (if it's got the word marine in it, just triple the price). Another example, Mamiya's ZD back batteries at around $170 each are available for about $10 if you do some digging.
    Personally David, I'm tipping toward Sinar myself as a back-up digital solution ... maybe not on a $11,000 Hy6 with $6,000. lenses on it, but because it's the only one that hooks up to my 203FE and 503CW systems which are already paid for ... integration is irrelevant with those cameras.

    If I have to pay an additional $1,800 (I was told $2,000) for an adapter to use a Sinar, then I'd have to think about that. If you buy a back, does it come with one adapter?

    It also seems pretty darn hard to find used or demo units. The quantity is so small in the US that they seem few and far between.

    My other major worry is that I suspect that a Sinar update is immanent. The screen and other aspects seem in need of "refreshing" when compared to other backs.

    I think it's time for the waiting game. Let the market sort itself out, and observe the next wave of advancements that are sure to come.

    Thanks for your comments and sharing your point of view.

  47. #97
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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by thsinar View Post
    David,

    to answer your question about the adapter prices:

    - the price range for the eMotion adapters goes from Euro 365.- (adapter Sinar Hy6) to Euro 1'128.- (Revolving adapter for the Sinar Hy6 and adapter for the Rolleiflex 6008)

    - the price range for the Sinarback 54 series and eVolution 75H goes from Euro 299.- (adapter for Sinar m) to Euro 852.- (adapter for Mamiya RZ and Rolleiflex 6008)

    Those are recommended enduser prices which can vary from one country to another.

    As you can see, adapter prices are depending on different factors: the type of back, the type of communication between camera and back and the mechanical difficulty. Most adapters nowadays have internal electronics and contacts, some adapters do even have an internal specific firmware.
    Most of the time it is not a simple mechanical part.

    Best regards,
    Thierry
    Those prices are less daunting.

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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Personally David, I'm tipping toward Sinar myself as a back-up digital solution ... maybe not on a $11,000 Hy6 with $6,000. lenses on it, but because it's the only one that hooks up to my 203FE and 503CW systems which are already paid for ... i
    Marc, I knew you would come around to have a Sinar back It makes so much sense for you, with your other Hasselblad gear.

  49. #99
    thsinar
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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Thanks for your nice words: always encouraging to hear that one's contribution helps others.

    The Contax 645 adapter is about Euro 120.- cheaper in my "Recommented Prices": these 10% difference are probably due to some country specific raison. I could imagine that the exchange rate plays a role in the US currently.
    On the other hand, the revolving adapter is exactly corresponding to our recommended price.

    Best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Thierry,

    Thank you for your clarification on adapter prices... always better to have the real facts as opposed to misinformation. I have been quoted $1800 for the Contax 645 adapter and a similar price for the revolving adapter and mistakenly assumed they were all about the same. BTW, I've said this before but it's worth repeating I think. Your active participation on this and other forums is another factor that has made me feel comfortable about moving to Sinar.

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    Re: why i shoot with C645

    Marc,
    Thierry is best suited to answer some of your questions but you raise a good point with regard to the Sinar update. If I understood Thierry's earlier post there will be an update to a 2.5" OLED from the current 2" OLED within the next few weeks as well as updated electronics for better high ISO shooting, etc. This update is available to existing owners (of the e75) for somewhere around $2k (30% discount from $3k recommended price) but it comes with the revolving adapter which is close to $2k anyway. Give or take a few dollars, if you were going to buy the revolving adapter (I am) the upgrade is essentially free (actually, you get a new back with the upgrade). Frankly, if it were otherwise, I'd probably be complaining since I haven't even taken delivery of my unit and it's already old technology (at least to this limited extent). With regard to demo unit availability, Steve Hendrix had a demo kit which will become available in a few months. Apparently Sinar has a one year waiting period requirement before dealers are allowed to sell a unit as a demo. There is no question that you need to look around to get the best pricing. Unfortunately, this is not like buying a Nikon D3. Pricing and options can vary considerably. The deal that David Klepacki got on his demo was not available to me and the deal that I got on my unit is probably not available to you. Confused yet ???

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