why i shoot with C645

[gogopix]

LOL. Irakly just left my studio and we had a good laugh about how this would stir the pot.

Okay, I'm game ... words are one thing, pictures are another ... :bugeyes:

Look at the horrible double image Bokeh in the background of the Pepper shot ... and the wormy highlights ... or edge on the end of the tea pot spout ... :thumbdown:

Maybe a little photoshop blur WOULD help ...

Too bad thay don't make an adapter to use the HC 100/2.2 on the C645 so you could get some nice tonal and edge gradations in the Bokeh ... :ROTFL:

OK shootout time
if you guys are that close, how about a parallel setup keeping as much the same but changing the glass.

I am right now between going H2 or the Hy6

I can use non AF zeiss all I want

what I want is the best combo of IQ and clean AF [I guess for some reason you cant have the HB 28mm on anything but the H3, but I want a n open system.

Marc, your back is??

 

[Jack]

Actually, I agree totally with Marc. That bokeh is just plain ugly! (Sorry, but I am being totally serious, no tounge in cheek.)

 

[irakly]

Jack, it the sarah wrap stretched diagonally from upper right to lower left.

 

[Jack]

Jack, it the sarah wrap stretched diagonally from upper right to lower left.

Uh huh.

 

[fotografz]

Marc, I must be either too inexperienced (true enough) or slow to catch on (quite possible), but I find myself unsure of the points you are trying to make. I think there is some tongue in cheek humor in there somewhere. Would you mind making your points more clearly for my benefit? Are you saying you don't like Zeiss glass, or certain Zeiss lenses, or...?

Yes, some tongue in cheek Tom ... Irakly is a dear and close friend and I'm just giving him some back in kind.

As to Zeiss ... Let's see ... I currently own and use 14 Zeiss MF lenses for my Hasselblads including 4 FE versions ... I owned and used the Contax 645 system for years including ALL of the Zeiss/Contax lenses for it (except the 210/4) ... some of which Irakly bought from me ... so it's probably safe to say that it isn't that I don't like Zeiss optics.

I also have and use the HC series for the Hasselblad H3D-II/39. I've posted images here that dispelled the persistent belief that they are somehow inferior. Even critics tended to agree ... smooth Bokeh, subjects that pop off the background, nice edge transitions ... then go right back to being closed minded about it.

I use both Zeiss and HC optics, often on the same camera with the same digital back. They're both great.

 

[fotografz]

OK shootout time
if you guys are that close, how about a parallel setup keeping as much the same but changing the glass.

I am right now between going H2 or the Hy6

I can use non AF zeiss all I want

what I want is the best combo of IQ and clean AF [I guess for some reason you cant have the HB 28mm on anything but the H3, but I want a n open system.

Marc, your back is??

Actually, I don't need a dual camera shoot out. I can set up a subject, light it with a consistent source, mount any Zeiss CFi or CFE lens on the H3D-11/39, shoot, remove it, and mount the equivalent HC focal length without changing anything, and shoot with it.

I promise not to use any Saran wrap ... and Irakly can set up the subject, light it and monitor the whole process so I can't cheat ... LOL.

Let's start with the 100/2.2 ... oh, wait Zeiss doesn't make a 100 that fast ...

How about a 50 and 150 both at at f/4 closest focusing distance?

While were at it let's do a AF shoot out between the Contax and H3 ... with money on it ... and to save time, just send me the money, because it's no contest : -)

 

[David Klepacki]

Let's start with the 100/2.2 ... oh, wait Zeiss doesn't make a 100 that fast ...

Other way around. Let's start with the Contax Zeiss 80/2....Fujiblad doesn't make any lens that fast...Also, Contax made (with Hasselblad) the MAM-1 adapter to accommodate ALL Hasselblad lenses, including the faster Zeiss FE Planar 110/2... unfortunately this lens cannot be used on the H cameras.

How about a 50 and 150 both at at f/4 closest focusing distance?

How about the Hasselblad Zeiss FE 50 at f/2.8, the Hasselblad Zeiss FE 150/2.8, or even the Contax AF Zeiss 140/2.8? all possible on the Contax.... all NOT possible with any of the H cameras. Unfortunately, the H cameras cannot do f/2.8 at any focal length other than 100 and the 80. In fact, here is a list of all Zeiss lenses that are F/2.8 or faster that will work on the Contax:

Contax Zeiss 45/2.8
Hasselblad Zeiss FE 50/2.8 (which has 0.32m close focus distance....Fujiblad is 0.6m)
Contax Zeiss 80/2
Hasselblad Zeiss 110/2
Contax Zeiss 140/2.8
Hasselblad Zeiss 150/2.8
Hasselblad Zeiss 300/2.8

How many lenses of this speed are available on the Hasselblad H series? Only 2: the 80/2.8 and 100/2.2.

While were at it let's do a AF shoot out between the Contax and H3 ... with money on it ... and to save time, just send me the money, because it's no contest : -)

OK, let's see which camera has better AF at 1/1000....oh wait, the Hasselblad H cameras are not able to shoot as high as that speed.

 

[Graham Mitchell]

Contax Zeiss AF 45/2.8
Hasselblad Zeiss FE 50/2.8 (which has 0.32m close focus distance....Fujiblad is 0.6m)
Contax Zeiss 80/2
Hasselblad Zeiss 110/2
Contax Zeiss 140/2.8
Hasselblad Zeiss 150/2.8
Hasselblad Zeiss 300/2.8

How many lenses of this speed are available on the Hasselblad H series? Only 2: the 80/2.8 and 100/2.2.

Compare with Rollei 6000/Hy6:

50mm f2.8 Schneider
80mm f2 Schneider (also 80mm f2.8 Zeiss/Schneider)
110mm f2 Zeiss
180mm f2.8

This is the best of the leaf shutter lens ranges. The Contax has a slight edge but of course suffers from slow flash sync.

 

[thsinar]

Agree a 100% with you, Graham.

Thierry

Compare with Rollei 6000/Hy6:

50mm f2.8 Schneider
80mm f2 Schneider (also 80mm f2.8 Zeiss/Schneider)
110mm f2 Zeiss
180mm f2.8

This is the best of the leaf shutter lens ranges. The Contax has a slight edge but of course suffers from slow flash sync.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Starting to sound like Russian Roulette at sunset. LOL

Did I step into a Canon forum. Easy guys my wallet is about to burst into flames

 

[Graham Mitchell]

The Rollei 6000/Hy6 range should be even 'faster' when some of the announced lenses are available (later this year I hope):

S-Flektogon 2,8/35 mm
Tele-Biometar 2,8/150 mm

 

[David Klepacki]

Compare with Rollei 6000/Hy6:

50mm f2.8 Schneider
80mm f2 Schneider (also 80mm f2.8 Zeiss/Schneider)
110mm f2 Zeiss
180mm f2.8

This is the best of the leaf shutter lens ranges. The Contax has a slight edge but of course suffers from slow flash sync.

I couldn't agree more! I am also a Hy6/e75LV user ... and loving every minute of it.

The point of my previous posting was to defend the Contax against Marc's comments with regard to the Hasselblad H.

That's the great thing about the Sinar system. You can use their back on the Hy6 to get the highest speed AF lenses and flash sync, and then use the same back on the Contax 645 to get all that Zeiss glass with up to 1/4000 shutter speed.

 

[fotografz]

Other way around. Let's start with the Contax Zeiss 80/2....Fujiblad doesn't make any lens that fast...Also, Contax made (with Hasselblad) the MAM-1 adapter to accommodate ALL Hasselblad lenses, including the faster Zeiss FE Planar 110/2... unfortunately this lens cannot be used on the H cameras.



How about the Hasselblad Zeiss FE 50 at f/2.8, the Hasselblad Zeiss FE 150/2.8, or even the Contax AF Zeiss 140/2.8? all possible on the Contax.... all NOT possible with any of the H cameras. Unfortunately, the H cameras cannot do f/2.8 at any focal length other than 100 and the 80. In fact, here is a list of all Zeiss lenses that are F/2.8 or faster that will work on the Contax:

Contax Zeiss AF 45/2.8
Hasselblad Zeiss FE 50/2.8 (which has 0.32m close focus distance....Fujiblad is 0.6m)
Contax Zeiss 80/2
Hasselblad Zeiss 110/2
Contax Zeiss 140/2.8
Hasselblad Zeiss 150/2.8
Hasselblad Zeiss 300/2.8

How many lenses of this speed are available on the Hasselblad H series? Only 2: the 80/2.8 and 100/2.2.



OK, let's see which camera has better AF at 1/1000....oh wait, the Hasselblad H cameras are not able to shoot as high as that speed.

What does shutter speed have to do with AF speed?

You are talking about the fundamental difference between a focal plane camera and a leaf shutter camera ... never the twain shall meet.

So, to continue the ridiculous comparison ...let's do the test with strobes shooting at 1/500th or 1/800th ... zap ... all those fast lenses are now useless paper weights, and so is the Contax 645.

You guys are serious. Okey dokey ... you forget that I used the system for years and know where the skeletons are buried.

If I wanted a Contax 645 and all those lenses, I'd buy everything tomorrow... I have the technology and the means: -) But, the AF is a fat turtle carried by a sedated snail. Of course one could manually focus, but if I want to shoot manual focus I'll use my 203FE and all the FE glass without being slowed down even more with stop down metering. Then there is the stone aged flash controls, and the bag full of batteries you need to keep the camera working (can't tell you how many shots I missed due to camera SDS) ... and so on.

I personally lament that the Contax 645 didn't move to the next level and was abandoned by Kyocera. It left a vacuum in focal plane cameras with Mamiya the only digital player now. If the C645 were alive today, and advancements had been made to keep it current, it would be my second digital camera ... one focal plane shutter Contax 645-II, and the H3D for leaf shutter applications.

Leaf shutter is way more important to me, as well as many others ... that the Hy6 is a leaf shutter camera is somewhat telling huh?

 

[fotografz]

it is not only bokeh. my main objections against fuji lenses is how they render colour gradations and transitions between sharp and out-of-focus areas. another thing is kind of esoteric, it is called plasticity. it is just not there.

Ah, now I know what you mean by "Plasticity" ... Saran wrap. : -0

 

[fotografz]

The Rollei 6000/Hy6 range should be even 'faster' when some of the announced lenses are available (later this year I hope):

S-Flektogon 2,8/35 mm
Tele-Biometar 2,8/150 mm

Speaking of "Wallets bursting into flames."

 

[tom in mpls]

fotografz, foto-z

You guys are killing me. I can never remember who's who, not to mention which side of an argument you are each taking! Yeah, I know one's in Michigan and the other's in Estonia but I'm still left in a fog.

This is all in fun, but it is true that your usernames get me confused. But don't stop!

 

[David Klepacki]

Marc, I am just trying to balance the perspectives....you were a little harsh on the Contax. Despite your current preference for the H3D, the Contax is still a great camera, even though it has its limitations. If the H3D works for you and you are happy with it, that is all that matters.

Personally, I am quite glad that I did not lock myself into the Hasselblad H3D closed system. With only one Sinar back, I can shoot the Contax 645 when I need the focal plane shutter, the Sinar Hy6 when I need the high speed leaf shutter, and the Hasselblad 203FE....just for the fun of it!

And, if I feel the need to shoot a 28mm lens, I will just get the Phase camera and the Mamiya adapter for the same Sinar back, and voila, I can shoot with that system as well. Or maybe change my mind and get the new 28mm HR lens and the Sinar M camera. Basically, I get to take advantage of all of these systems without having to buy a new back for them.

So, even though the Hasselblad H3D system may be a great system, I chose to go with Sinar for the added freedom it gives me. Of course, I can also add a H3DII system to my arsenal, but it does not really do anything for me. It would add more dependency on the Hasselblad software (e.g, to apply their lens corrections), and disrupt the more open and standard workflow that I get from all the other systems that I use with a single back (e.g., and also being able to use Lightroom, ACR).

 

[fotografz]

fotografz, foto-z

You guys are killing me. I can never remember who's who, not to mention which side of an argument you are each taking! Yeah, I know one's in Michigan and the other's in Estonia but I'm still left in a fog.

This is all in fun, but it is true that your usernames get me confused. But don't stop!

Estonia ... LOL.

If you are referring to Irakly and I, we live close to one another in the suburbs of Detroit, Michigan. He lives in dumpy and stuffy Grosse Pointe Park, and I live in charming and quaint Franklin : -)

 

[fotografz]

Marc, I am just trying to balance the perspectives....you were a little harsh on the Contax. Despite your current preference for the H3D, the Contax is still a great camera, even though it has its limitations. If the H3D works for you and you are happy with it, that is all that matters.

Personally, I am quite glad that I did not lock myself into the Hasselblad H3D closed system. With only one Sinar back, I can shoot the Contax 645 when I need the focal plane shutter, the Sinar Hy6 when I need the high speed leaf shutter, and the Hasselblad 203FE....just for the fun of it!

And, if I feel the need to shoot a 28mm lens, I will just get the Phase camera and the Mamiya adapter for the same Sinar back, and voila, I can shoot with that system as well. Or maybe change my mind and get the new 28mm HR lens and the Sinar M camera. Basically, I get to take advantage of all of these systems without having to buy a new back for them.

So, even though the Hasselblad H3D system may be a great system, I chose to go with Sinar for the added freedom it gives me.

David, I didn't start this thread. Just bringing a balance to it myself. Some may want to shoot with all kinds of various cameras ... I don't anymore. These days I prefer to shoot with a H3 leaf shutter camera first and foremost ... as it does most everything I need ... fast and agile, or on a view camera. However, I would also like to use a focal plane shutter camera ... just not the Contax any more ... the AF is to slow, the flash controls are old tech., and I have to have high sync speed (3 extraordinarily important things to me), and nothing is going to change that. The H3D-II delivers in all 3 of those areas.

So, the only focal plane camera I am interested in is the 203FE. Good back up, and as you say "fun". I already have it, and all the lenses. It was, and still is, my fav. MF camera.

Until recently, I was unaware that Sinar e-Motion backs will work on this wonderful camera. One V adapter and I can use the Sinar on the 203FE and 503CW.
I've inquired about the Sinar, and am thinking it through. I am reluctant because the LCD is tiny and dim and the software is clunky ... but it appears that the software is advancing, so that is good news. Expensive.

 

[gogopix]

grahhamm

in Tallinn

Estonia