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Thread: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

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    H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    f6.7
    0.3s exposure
    HCD28

    Hand held (carefully braced against barrier!)

    Slight Clarity and Shadow Fill adjustment

    Tad of USM. Go ahead if you like more.

    Zero noise reduction.

    Enjoy!

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2849451/H4D40ISO800.tif.zip

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Any chance you could upload the raw?

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    No! ;-)

    Will do when I get home. At HK airport and boarding soon.

    Maybe you could do a shot of a P40+ @ 800 ISO at a similar exposure time?

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Thanks David.

    This kind of shot is more instructive for me because it more closely represents the worst case scenarios I have to face occasionally. Fat light isn't the real challenge for MFD ... this is.

    Been playing with it in PS. The file seems to hold up against really pushing it around a lot. I corrected the perspective and altered the color balance and exposure then cropped tiny details out of it ... which held up very well given the ISO 800. Amazing actually.

    Did you have the nano-second mirror delay set? That's pretty sharp for hand-held at that shutter speed.

    Looks like you guys have a winner on your hands. Congrats!

    These 40 meg backs are looking really good from everyone! WaHoo!

    -Marc

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    (From Seat 62G!)

    Great! Glad it held up well.

    Mirror delay was set and I sort of had it braced against a glass partition. Worked though.

    Post your finished file if you like?

    D

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Handheld, .3s from seat 62G

    now THAT's impressive!
    AKA, does look like a robust file

    Doug, have a comp from P40+, may w w/o sensor plus?

    David, I assume Hassey V lenses work with AE and focus confirm on the H4's as well, yes?

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    I didnt know airplanes had seats past row 10??

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    I didnt know airplanes had seats past row 10??
    Welcome to the "real" world most of us have to live in Pete --
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Bankers, what are they like?

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    David -- I am sorry that you are flying coach! It is probably because of the way too generous deal your corporate office gave me on my X5!
    My photos are here: http://www.stuartrichardson.com and more recent work here: http://stuartrichardson.tumblr.com/ Please have a look at my book!
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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Thanks David !

    My 2 cts : if we look at 100 %, there is some noise, but if we look at 50 %, that's pretty good, and at 66 % it's still very good.

    So my conclusion : at "20 MP equivalent", that's a very good noiseless shot, at "17 MP" it remains still very good !

    I'm right ?

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    I didnt know airplanes had seats past row 10??
    Well - it's funny when your bording pass shows row 18, and last row in aircraft is 17 (had that some weeks ago on the way from Helsinki to Tallinn ). But I got a seat, no need to swim...
    Though row 65 is a challenge

    Andreas (sorry to continue OT)

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    No! ;-)

    Will do when I get home. At HK airport and boarding soon.

    Maybe you could do a shot of a P40+ @ 800 ISO at a similar exposure time?
    I've got a date tonight and sunday but I'm not doing anything Saturday so maybe!

    But careful what you ask for - I may upload a ISO1600 and ISO3200 example as well :-).

    (fyi it would be with a 65+ not a 40+ since that's what's on my shelf right now)

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    I have a 40+ with me . Those files from the S2 /P40 review are still up on my mobile me server.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    we lose our sense of humour and all that is left is grey clouds..-

    yes the file @ 800 looks good - I just gave up shooting hand held or anything except snaps as soon as the 16 megapixels came out with the 1dsmk11 - maybe it is shaky hands from all the high velocity trading over the years takings it toll..or maybe I just have a dofferent definition of sharp - which is ironic because I dont really give a toss re sharp in my style of shooting

    a face shot at 800 ISO hand held wold be more telling.

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    David -- I am sorry that you are flying coach! It is probably because of the way too generous deal your corporate office gave me on my X5!
    You have an X5? A Flextight X5?

    I thought I would die and go to heaven if I had the good fortune to buy docmoore's 343 scanner.

    I've decided to start saving my spare coins now in the hope I will be able to get an X1 before I'm too old and senile to operate a scanner at all.

    Gary

    Woa.....just noticed this is my 700th post on GetDPI.....don't tell my wife!

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    You have an X5? A Flextight X5?

    I thought I would die and go to heaven if I had the good fortune to buy docmoore's 343 scanner.

    I've decided to start saving my spare coins now in the hope I will be able to get an X1 before I'm too old and senile to operate a scanner at all.

    Gary

    Woa.....just noticed this is my 700th post on GetDPI.....don't tell my wife!
    Gary, Sell a camera or two!

    You are a "Camera Horder". (It takes one to know one )

    I'm submitting you as a candidate for the Horder intervention TV show.

    I'm on step 6 of the Cameraholics Anonymous of America 12 step plan.

    I'm thinking of moving back to step 3 ...

    -Marc

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Yeeaahh, Marc, building TWO Hassey kits at once might not be considered "progress" at CAA.


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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    0.3s handheld is very impressive...very sharp.

    Would someone be able to do the same (ok similar) ISO800 shot with the H3D-39 (either i or ii) and the H3D-31 (i or ii) so we can see the progress H has made going from 3 to 4. Would be interesting, no?

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Okay, I really bullied this file ... pushed it around like crazy.

    I like to do that with test files to see how flexible it is in bad conditions rather than nice light.

    Corrected perspective a ton, pushed the exposure a bunch looking for shadow performance, really pushed the color adjustments to the limits, used all my standard stuff like "Smart Sharpen" and Nik Define2.

    These new 40 meg sensors can take quite a beating, and the detail resolving power of the little pixel sensors has been ratcheted it up a notch IMO.

    Looks even better printed @ 21" wide on the 3800. What noise visible @ 100% on the monitor, is virtually gone in the print. Not bad. not bad at all.

    Love to work the RAW file in Phocus-II @ 16 bit going in (hint, hint: -)

    -Marc

    Top: Org file - Bottom: bullied file ... and bully-boy severe crop details.

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Allyn View Post
    Yeeaahh, Marc, building TWO Hassey kits at once might not be considered "progress" at CAA.

    But ... but ... but ... he stammered.

    I sold off an entire lifetime collection of 503CW and 203FE systems (like 30 pieces of prime real estate), an entire Nikon DSLR system (12 pieces), and my 949 scanner.

    That got me to step 6 ... but Leica M9 stuff took me back to step 4 ... and I haven't bought anything else since last week

    "Hello, I'm Marc Williams, and I am a Cameraholic. It has been 6 days since I used my Pay Pal account."

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    I get an error saying that this account is generating too much traffic when I try to download David's file. Does anyone have any idea how long it gets blocked?
    Cheers,
    Jeff
    www.jeff-grant.com

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    It's an 90mb file Jeff -- I suppose that too many people downloaded it. I would send you mine, but I deleted it already!

    David -- by the way, I did not mention how impressive the file is, as well as the shot. Nice and sharp corner to corner, no distortion, nice color. MFDB has come a long way.

    Gary -- Yes, I got an X5 through the local dealer here in Iceland! I have had it since December, and it is already really helping the business. It has not covered its costs quite yet, but it is well on it's way there and I have only had it for less than 3 months! It is a dream to work with, and a real upgrade from the 646 I was using before -- primarily in speed, but also in the precision of the mechanics. I think they have refined things quite a bit since the 646 was first made. Maybe it is just because my 646 is several years old and this is a new one...

    Anyway, sorry to go off topic there.
    My photos are here: http://www.stuartrichardson.com and more recent work here: http://stuartrichardson.tumblr.com/ Please have a look at my book!
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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Thanks Stuart. I'll try again in the AM.
    Cheers,
    Jeff
    www.jeff-grant.com

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    (From Seat 62G!)D
    Didn't know they had numbers for rear lavatory seats?!?!?

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    Didn't know they had numbers for rear lavatory seats?!?!?
    Its because the Hassy jet is THAT big.

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffg53 View Post
    I get an error saying that this account is generating too much traffic when I try to download David's file. Does anyone have any idea how long it gets blocked?
    Hi Jeff,

    Yes, seems Dropbox does have some flood control.

    The thread has had 600+ views so I guess the public part of my Dropbox got a bit overloaded!

    If anybody would like the file, then drop me a PM and I will do my best to sort something out.

    David

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    David maybe you could just post a 1500 pixel jpeg for those of us who like to have a small peek only.

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Will do Henry. I'm on a different Mac at the moment so will do in the morning.

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    David are you still in Asia?

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    No. Back home a little earlier today. ;-)

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    David, the original link is dead. Can you upload somewhere else too?
    Thanks, Seyhun
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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Okay, I really bullied this file ... pushed it around like crazy.

    I like to do that with test files to see how flexible it is in bad conditions rather than nice light.

    Corrected perspective a ton, pushed the exposure a bunch looking for shadow performance, really pushed the color adjustments to the limits, used all my standard stuff like "Smart Sharpen" and Nik Define2.

    These new 40 meg sensors can take quite a beating, and the detail resolving power of the little pixel sensors has been ratcheted it up a notch IMO.

    Looks even better printed @ 21" wide on the 3800. What noise visible @ 100% on the monitor, is virtually gone in the print. Not bad. not bad at all.

    Love to work the RAW file in Phocus-II @ 16 bit going in (hint, hint: -)

    -Marc

    Top: Org file - Bottom: bullied file ... and bully-boy severe crop details.
    Marc
    I know you are a particularly careful practitioner. Are these 100% crops? or more?

    If they are 100% crops, they are singularly unimpressive; blotchy, undetailed. Is there some heavy NR going on?

    I know you 'pushed the raw around" but I have never seen anything like this from say a phase 100% crop.

    Victor

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    Marc
    I know you are a particularly careful practitioner. Are these 100% crops? or more?

    If they are 100% crops, they are singularly unimpressive; blotchy, undetailed. Is there some heavy NR going on?

    I know you 'pushed the raw around" but I have never seen anything like this from say a phase 100% crop.

    Victor
    Sorry, not sure what part of "Bullied" you didn't grasp.

    It wasn't a RAW file. I asked for a 16 bit RAW file rather than a preprocessed 8 bit Tiff ... which David said he'd get to me later.

    The crops are more than 100%.

    Actually, I'd never over-process a "real" image this much unless it was to save a "user screw-up" wedding shot that couldn't be repeated ... which happens.

    As I mentioned in the post, this was a torture test. I've done the same with provided Phase One, Leaf Aptus and other 35mm DSLR files for my own enlightenment. I am always interested in stretching the rubber band until it breaks so I know where to draw the line.

    Most importantly, I was curious how it would print, rather than what a sub 1 meg jpg looks like on a computer screen ... and it looked fine @ 20" wide on the long side ... which I also mentioned.

    Sorry, can't show you that.

    -Marc

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    Marc

    .....I know you 'pushed the raw around" but I have never seen anything like this from say a phase 100% crop.

    Victor
    I have also heard Phase backs can float!

    Here are some 100% crops of the original.
    Last edited by David Grover / Phase One; 27th September 2010 at 02:29.

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Lesson learned ... NEVER post anything less than perfect ... never push a file for the learning it can provide ... it'll be jumped on by someone looking to justify their own decisions.

    People HAVE GOT to get over the superiority complex that infects trying to learn something here. All these systems are more than excellent, and it is minutia we are looking at ... or personal preferences in the details of use.

    If I had a Phase One P40+ system file, shot in poor light at a slow shutter speed, I'd torture that also ... and like anything from anyone else it wouldn't be a pretty sight.

    I did the same with the S2 ... and it proved it wasn't for me. In less than perfect conditions Phase or Hassey files seem more suited for my applications. Maybe not the same for others at all ... but not for me.

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post

    (fyi it would be with a 65+ not a 40+ since that's what's on my shelf right now)
    Why? Are ya chicken?

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Torture tests are more valid than just straight processing, by a country mile. A man needs to know his limits. Can't remember the movie but Clint nailed it
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Lesson learned ... NEVER post anything less than perfect ... never push a file for the learning it can provide ... it'll be jumped on by someone looking to justify their own decisions.

    People HAVE GOT to get over the superiority complex that infects trying to learn something here. All these systems are more than excellent, and it is minutia we are looking at ... or personal preferences in the details of use.

    If I had a Phase One P40+ system file, shot in poor light at a slow shutter speed, I'd torture that also ... and like anything from anyone else it wouldn't be a pretty sight.

    I did the same with the S2 ... and it proved it wasn't for me. In less than perfect conditions Phase or Hassey files seem more suited for my applications. Maybe not the same for others at all ... but not for me.
    Calm down Marc
    I thought you downloaded the raw
    My mistake
    I apologize.
    David, nice crops.

    Victor

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Nobody interested and able to do a comparison to show the progress from H3D to H3dii to H4D?

    Quote Originally Posted by P. Chong View Post
    0.3s handheld is very impressive...very sharp.

    Would someone be able to do the same (ok similar) ISO800 shot with the H3D-39 (either i or ii) and the H3D-31 (i or ii) so we can see the progress H has made going from 3 to 4. Would be interesting, no?

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Why? Are ya chicken?
    David, aside from the images, you've got a great sense of humor... as does Doug. I really enjoy of your good natured ribbing of each other. Says a lot to me when competitors can tease each other... means they haven't lost their perspective. Credit also to Guy and Jack for creating an atmosphere on this forum that encourages it.

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Torture tests are more valid than just straight processing, by a country mile. A man needs to know his limits. Can't remember the movie but Clint nailed it

    Magnum Force, 1972

    Steve

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by P. Chong View Post
    Nobody interested and able to do a comparison to show the progress from H3D to H3dii to H4D?
    Hi P. I think I have a shot from the 39 at 400, maybe 800 ISO I can show.

    The 40 is a BIG STEP up in terms of high ISO quality.

    Ill dig them out.

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    David, aside from the images, you've got a great sense of humor... as does Doug. I really enjoy of your good natured ribbing of each other. Says a lot to me when competitors can tease each other... means they haven't lost their perspective. Credit also to Guy and Jack for creating an atmosphere on this forum that encourages it.
    Thanks David. (And to Doug as well!)

    Yes, it is possible here. Not on LL!

    Doug... I am still waiting for that P40+ 800 ISO shot.

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Thanks David...look forward. Is the IQ remains unchanged from H3D to H3Dii?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Hi P. I think I have a shot from the 39 at 400, maybe 800 ISO I can show.

    The 40 is a BIG STEP up in terms of high ISO quality.

    Ill dig them out.

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by P. Chong View Post
    Thanks David...look forward. Is the IQ remains unchanged from H3D to H3Dii?
    I don't think you would be able to find any discernible difference.

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Wow, impressive iso 800.

    Can anyone tell me if the H4D50's sensor has the same advancements as shown by the 40's?

    Thanks

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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    Wow, impressive iso 800.

    Can anyone tell me if the H4D50's sensor has the same advancements as shown by the 40's?

    Thanks
    The 40 and 50 are essentially the same sensor design.

    The 40, however, has microlenses which is why the High ISO performance is better.

  49. #49
    Senior Member
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    Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    I think it's not only the awesome high ISO performance here but also the balance of noise, color, gradation etc.
    There is "ugly" noise (mostly) and there is "nice" noise (sometimes). The H40 (in conjunction with Phocus) apparently produces a look with "nice" noise (at least to me). This goes also for the ISO1600 portrait posted on LL a while ago.
    It's hard to explain and maybe nothing you can describe in technical terms (at least I can't)... for instance I am finding the noise of the P21+ "nice" whilst I don't really like the noise of the P45 (though they have basically a very similar same sensor design). I also like the noise of the M8 whilst I have yet to see "nice" noise of an CMOS sensor.
    Probably it's very personal. Anyway... this ISO800 simply looks great.

  50. #50
    axeleaf
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    Talking Re: H4D40 @ 800 ISO

    Hi David , Denis Lim who was with you in HongKong is showing us in Singapore and our local Hassy users group the night images you took . They are awesome . we are all here waiting to play with the H4D 40.
    Hope you can drop by our tiny island this year !

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