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Thread: H4D40 , some thoughts

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    H4D40 , some thoughts

    hello to everybody and thanks for all the information I read on this forum over time. this is my first post and I think I should start with a contribution.

    last week I put my hands on a new H4D-40 for testing and I'd like to share some experience and give something back to the community.
    first of all I want to say that I'm not biased towards any system or brand and will try to concentrate only on the new things I noticed. hopefully not in a too ironical/exagerated way..

    BUT… (first I simply have to mention this)

    I really asked myself WHO may have designed this camera and in which prison/cave he/she may rest/hide until the end of his/her life for delivering this to a heritage brand like Hasselblad. he/she may also share his/her cell/cave with the person (former Hasselblad employee) who approved it. :-) I mean seriously, photographers in general are aproaching things from a certain aesthetic point of view. At least I think so…

    now for the things that might really matter:
    once you put your fingers around the grip, this cheap plastic 80's japanese design from sweden turns out to be a truly well built ergonomic full metal machine you can immediately trust on. I am holding this camera shaking my head and just can't believe this diametral contrast of formal design aspect and functionality.

    look through the viewfinder:
    WOW !!! as you know this is maybe the best one, BUT… every camera manufacturer uses one and the same cheap solution for the digits inside the viewfinder. yellow/greenish or whatever high contrast digits on black background. immediately visible/legible.
    hasselblad solution: some sort of lower contrast grey digits on separate greenish LCD…. why ???

    True Focus:
    does it work ? YES !! thank you hasselblad for having adressed and solved this focus shift problem using AF… BUT… you thought MF AF is slow ? now the process of AUTOFOCUSING got even slower. if you want to use True Focus: press the TF button, unpress the TF button, recompose, press the shutter… in other words, you missed the magic (worst case scenario). additionaly you have to take piano lessons to exercise your tactile finger coordination. why not implement true focus into the schutter release button and save one interface ? activate true focus in some menue, half press the shutter release, unpress, recompose and shoot. hey mr. hasselblad I am a phtographer not a piano player… and here is where I see the problem. looks like every department of hasselblad comes up with the very best ideas and skills but the whole thing does not find it's way into the final satisfactional clean product. (only my view on some minor presupposed shortcommings :-)) otherwise for architecture stills and landscape this might be what we've been waiting for. also more accurate than manual focusing especially after hours of looking through te viewfinder.

    HTS 1.5 Tilt/Shift
    it's available/real and it works. but be aware: this camera isn't the lightest one and it really becomes a monster with the HTS1.5 and lens attached.


    image quality:
    this is the point where I really build up some serious aversion towards that camera. :-) how can such results pop out from that grey box ?? did I mention I don't like the design ? so image quality also on a pixel peeping level is the best I might have ever seen from any camera/sensor. tonality, color, microdetail… simply stunning. such a dreamy lifelike and natural rendering of detail and color… I think this new generation of sensors in combination with the software is a new evolutionary step. whether it is kodak with new sensor design or phocus software or the combination, I don't know. the files are very clean, so clean some might not like them :-) shooting iso100 or iso400 in the studio simply doesn't seam to make any difference… ISO… oh, by the way iso800 and iso1600 you woun't believe it until you see it. I would say: no more need for a 1DsIII in that respect and considering that resolution. Some of us have to deal with sensor plus and stuff… with this one I would say just shoot high ISO and use it at it's full resolution. I am really impressed. didn't shoot myself the P40 so I cannot comment in a comparative manner.

    AWB: just spot on !!!

    phocus software, what I noticed:
    unless you got a supercomputer of the latest generation just forget it. it is deadly slow. i think there is no way to use these files/software even on a moderately pressured shoot with clients looking over your sholder using a macbook pro. hasselblad does recomend certain graphiccards to get proper performance even on a mac pro !! ... you CAN use C1 under any circumstances.
    BUT… if you allready have a supercomputer or the time to spend on the files:
    - you can lift the shadows so badly without getting noise or lets say too much noise.
    - you can push the USM slider way up to nirvana without getting the surfaces, background or sky noisy. and this with all noise reduction set to ZERO ! you just get a sharper image while sliding the button. period. with the default setting the image is pretty soft.
    I don't have acces to a P40/P65 generation back so I took some of Guys P40 files from his S2/P40 comparison. What i have to say is that compared to the hasselblad usm-tool the C1 usm-tool looks like a artifact/noise generator/chrystalizer. depending on the subject.
    I also think that C1 has changed something whith its usm-tool becoming more aggressive and harsh. did someone noticed that ? the smoothness lacks compared to the hasselblad file. not shure one can transport this into the normal sized print and if then the C1 processed file will perform better in this respect and have more bite. but on the monitor this is obvious.
    the third thing I noticed is the color correction tool. same thing here. it is really powerfull and in my opinion allows much broader and more accurate color manipulation than C1. all this is also valid for the H3DII-50 wich leads to the conclusion that these little miracles exist due to some new vodoo processing in phocus-software.

    so to come to an end there is no real comparison between the two systems. regarding final image quality the H4D-40 may be one of the best and most complete system out there but with regard to versality speed of use/software there is one more player in the game.. and he has a what I call beautiful and basic peace of camera design…


    Hope this might be helpfull for some. so why did I write this down ? maybe for some distraction… :-)

    now that the sun is comming through, I have to follow my addiction and get out shooting some photos…

    best regards,

    peter

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    Re: H4D40 , some thoughts

    Peter, thanks for the nice and entertaining report!

    I haven't had a H4D40 in my hands nor do I know Phocus. However 2 short notes.
    Quote Originally Posted by 6x7 View Post
    What i have to say is that compared to the hasselblad usm-tool the C1 usm-tool looks like a artifact/noise generator/chrystalizer. depending on the subject. I also think that C1 has changed something whith its usm-tool becoming more aggressive and harsh.
    The C1 sharpening is basically very good compared to prior versions of C1. However I agree that it's quite harsh and this goes especially for the highlights. A masking for blacks and whites would be very useful.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6x7 View Post
    the third thing I noticed is the color correction tool. same thing here. it is really powerfull and in my opinion allows much broader and more accurate color manipulation than C1.
    I don't know Phocus but I don't really understand what kind of limitations in C1's Color Editor you are experiencing. IMO C1's Color Editor allows very accurate and extremely fine editing without producing unwanted side effects. Maybe it's a question of practice and habit (or maybe you are mostly using the "basic" instead of the "advanced" Color Editor).

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    Re: H4D40 , some thoughts

    'why not implement true focus into the schutter release button and save one interface ? activate true focus in some menue, half press the shutter release, unpress, recompose and shoot. hey mr. hasselblad I am a phtographer not a piano player… '

    True Focus can either be used in the manner you tried at the demo, OR..

    - Can be placed on the shutter release and activated with a half press..

    exactly as you describe.

    Its a Custom option that you can simply turn off and on.

    David

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    Re: H4D40 , some thoughts

    @David

    oh david, you are mister hasselblad ? thank you for your reply… this is really GREAT news !!! I'll go and try it again. and now it really makes the difference between "nice to have" and "this is what I want" !!!
    I see this forum thing really works… so I have to appologize and reedit my post.


    @Thomas

    thanks thomas I somehow expected some german guy to get it to the ground… :-)) I am with you.. maybe HB is just doing what you describe…

    I don't even think of criticising C1 because we can only fall on our knees and be thankfull for that piece of integrated software !!! at this stage I just love it like it is. by the way I also love noise and bite in the file…

    concerning the color correction I feeled that by pressing the color picker phocus just preconcieves what color range I need an then let me push the hue/saturation/luminance further than I can with C1. it just stretches to a wider extent. also the case with the negative contrast slider. phocus allows me to destroy the file in this respect. C1 does not. but let's not put to much weight on these things…


    peter

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    Re: H4D40 , some thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by 6x7 View Post
    I somehow expected some german guy to get it to the ground… :-))


    I don't even think of criticising C1
    even if it would be perfectly okay!

    concerning the color correction I feeled that by pressing the color picker phocus just preconcieves what color range I need an then let me push the hue/saturation/luminance further than I can with C1. it just stretches to a wider extent.
    I see. Of course you can spin color around 360° in C1, too, but you have to make more edits to do so (hue is limited to 20° for one edit). Actually I really like the design of C1's Color Editor for this very reason: it allows you to make very subtile changes. It's not designed to change colors completely (though you could) but to enhance colors and transitions in a "photographical" way. I use the Color Editor a lot to increase "contrast" of an image (i.e. to distinguish tones of the same color using a small threshold and the luminance slider for the picked color ... and similar things).

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    Re: H4D40 , some thoughts

    Nice Post Peter , that was fun to read.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: H4D40 , some thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Nice Post Peter , that was fun to read.
    Yes it was... and my hat is always off to someone who has mastered a second language so well.

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    Re: H4D40 , some thoughts

    Thanks for posting Peter. I have been curious about this camera, but now I'm starting to really pay attention. I hope you'll share some samples soon?

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    Re: H4D40 , some thoughts

    Thanks for the post ... not only was it an interesting POV ... the answers provided about True Focus, use of C1, etc. were enlightening.

    I need to get my hands on this camera and compare it to both my Sony A900 as well as my current H3D-II/39 ... even at the good price point, we are talking about a serious chunk of change ... so first hand tests both in studio, and on location in available light, would be most revealing. Most importantly would be some side-by-sides against a high meg 35 DSLR to see the real advantages and how great they really may be.

    Man, would it be great if Hassey could get one into the hands of Guy and Jack at their workshop. Guy has a Phase P40 so it'd be an Apples-to-Apples comparison.

    -Marc

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    Re: H4D40 , some thoughts

    Thanks Marc I know David is really trying to get us one for review.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: H4D40 , some thoughts

    C1 doesn't officially support Hasselblad files, you're saying C1 converts Hasselblad raw files ??

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    Re: H4D40 , some thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    C1 doesn't officially support Hasselblad files, you're saying C1 converts Hasselblad raw files ??
    In the thread there were replies concerning the use of C1 in general, (color, etc.) ... not for processing H3F files. I sometimes use C1 for files from Leica and Sony, and found the comments useful.

    -Marc

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    Re: H4D40 , some thoughts

    thanks for the replies folks. I'm happy if it was informative for you.

    Marc & Guy I'd really like to hear and see some comments comparing it to the P40 and H3DII-39. (especially vs. P40 with the 80mmLS on it under the same conditions)

    some time ago I saw someone posting about the 80mm LS vs. the normal mamiya 80mm. I can remember he posted pics from a cemetery or a chappel… did anyone notice it ? can't find it anymore… not shure it was here on getdpi.

    peter

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    Should I trade my H3DII31 for a H4D-40?

    Hi To All,

    I'm a brand new member and appreciate these forums. I have a H3DII-31 and shoot mostly landscapes but am becoming fixated on good lighting and will be doing fine art portraits soon. The cropping of the sensor can be annoying when I pay too close attention to it, otherwise i'm "in the zone" composing and don't notice it. I am curious about the True focus on the H4D-40 and have been presented with a tempting offer... I am concerned of the price drops on the H3D's and how this will effect my trade up (already it's gone down $3000).
    As an incentive my dealer will give me the full purchase price of my H3DII31 towards the H4D-40. I know there similar (sensor size, ISO), but new features like: longer exposure times, true focus APL, brighter view screen are desirable considerations. The Kodak KAF 40000(truesense) sensor has a pixel pitch of 6.0, as opposed to 6.8 in the KAF 31000, but because the sensor size is still the same with more pixels packed in, will this result in degraded performance? Also, my understanding is that with the H4D-40, it runs cooler with better battery performance. Comments would be appreciated.

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    Re: H4D40 , some thoughts

    Hi Johnny,

    I have answered your PM, but in a nutshell..

    The smaller pixels of the 40 do not affect the ISO performance. In fact it is significantly improved over the 31.. by a long way!

    The Truesense design is more efficient in terms of power consumption, so you could expect some improvement in battery life. We have yet to quantify it though.

    David

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    Re: Should I trade my H3DII31 for a H4D-40?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygoesdigital View Post
    Hi To All,

    I'm a brand new member and appreciate these forums. I have a H3DII-31 and shoot mostly landscapes but am becoming fixated on good lighting and will be doing fine art portraits soon. The cropping of the sensor can be annoying when I pay too close attention to it, otherwise i'm "in the zone" composing and don't notice it. I am curious about the True focus on the H4D-40 and have been presented with a tempting offer... I am concerned of the price drops on the H3D's and how this will effect my trade up (already it's gone down $3000).
    As an incentive my dealer will give me the full purchase price of my H3DII31 towards the H4D-40. I know there similar (sensor size, ISO), but new features like: longer exposure times, true focus APL, brighter view screen are desirable considerations. The Kodak KAF 40000(truesense) sensor has a pixel pitch of 6.0, as opposed to 6.8 in the KAF 31000, but because the sensor size is still the same with more pixels packed in, will this result in degraded performance? Also, my understanding is that with the H4D-40, it runs cooler with better battery performance. Comments would be appreciated.
    IMO, if your dealer will allow full purchase price of your H3D-II/31 against a new H4D/40 ... grab it before they change their mind

    WARNING: CONTROVERSIAL OPINION:

    All due respect, I am perplexed by Hasselblad's pricing and trade-in strategies, and the massive devaluation of the H3D-II product that has trapped many loyal users. Based on many PMs, I'm not alone in this feeling.

    As I understand it, my pampered, mint H3D-II/39 with less than 3000 actuations is worth the same in trade as a beat up 501CM with a CFV/39 sporting 100,000 actuations. And I can't even get any trade value for my camera toward a H4D/40. Hasselblad doesn't even want it ... how's that for making you feel you made the right choice of brand?

    Recent price drops, and related consumer pricing in the marketplace, have significantly devalued my camera beyond comprehension. Not that I think any of this is an "investment" beyond what you do with it, but there is a "pain threshold" that I think Hasselblad has breeched.

    Love the product, don't love the sense of value, or lack of loyalty support for a long time user that has bought into every iteration since the H2D/22.

    If I didn't have a King's Ransom sunk into lenses, I'd blow this pop stand and move on.

    Frankly, the significantly improved Phase One product is looking better by the minute.

    Sorry for the rant, but in this economy an instant $15K loss it tantamount to a Wall Street highjacking IMPersonalO.

    -Marc

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    Re: H4D40 , some thoughts

    Marc,
    I agree with the perplexing nature of Hasselblad. I bought my H3DII-31 and watched the price drop $6000, in a matter of weeks. Foto...in NYC further insulted me when they told me what my camera was worth to them. No trade up path unless you got the H4D, as they phase out the H3D, so much for obsolescence. Foto... in NYC, even called Hasselblad to bitch about the dealer in Utah who made good on a previous promotion they forgot to remove from their website. I will not deal with Foto... in NYC, as a result of this underhanded attitude. Perhaps, I'll sell my Hassy gear and wait for the Leica with its dust /weather proof construction, a feature I can't believe Hasselblad does not have!

  18. #18
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    Re: H4D40 , some thoughts

    Thanks for the good information. Also have a try for all softwares in the below site. It's amazing.

    image processing software

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    Re: H4D40 , some thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by silverfast12345 View Post
    Thanks for the good information. Also have a try for all softwares in the below site. It's amazing.

    image processing software
    Isn't that scanning software? How does it relate to processing MFD proprietary file formats?

    -Marc

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    Re: H4D40 , some thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Isn't that scanning software? How does it relate to processing MFD proprietary file formats?

    -Marc
    From the site:


    "Why SilverFast DC Software?


    Work like a Pro
    Control the workflow
    Use the full potential of the camera's raw format
    Apply SilverFast's professional color correction
    Enhance your image quality
    Generate printable files
    Make use of many cameras
    Work on Mac or PC

    For all listed digital cameras SilverFast also fully supports Adobe DNG as an input format. If a camera is not listed as supported, not all camera information might be present in the DNG file. Still, such DNG files can of course be read and processed by SilverFast digital camera software.

    If your camera or the relevant profile is not available it can be created through us. For this purpose LaserSoft Imaging needs your ready-to-use camera (including a lens, battery, etc.) for approx. 2 hours at its company headquarters in Kiel, Germany......."

    Camera list shows a couple of Phase backs and a lot of point and shoots...

    Looks like a poor run at spam or plea to borrow your H4D 40 for a couple of hours.

    Bob

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    Re: H4D40 , some thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    From the site:

    ... Looks like a poor run at spam or plea to borrow your H4D 40 for a couple of hours.

    Bob
    No thanks.

    -Marc

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    Re: H4D40 , some thoughts

    Hi Peter (6x7),

    what do you mean with "AWB: just spot on !!!"?

    I'm using a H4D-40, but there is NO AWB!

    regards
    Michael

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    Re: H4D40 , some thoughts

    no AWB? looks like im going to have to think more when mine arrives
    www.williamophuis.com

    Hassy H4D-40.

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    Re: H4D40 , some thoughts

    Will, it doesn't have AWB but daylight works most of the time. I never change it when shooting. The camera does have a grey balance function so you can use that if you wish.
    Cheers,
    Jeff
    www.jeff-grant.com

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    Re: H4D40 , some thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffg53 View Post
    Will, it doesn't have AWB but daylight works most of the time. I never change it when shooting. The camera does have a grey balance function so you can use that if you wish.
    In the Grip menu of the H camera you can assign a short cut Manual White Balance to a user button.

    On the H4D/40 I changed the Stop Down Button on the front of the camera to MWB. This allows you to swiftly take a Manual White Balance reading. All you have to do is aim the camera at a grey card (or something white) and press that button.

    Very fast and easy to get accurate WB, and in turn, that makes the exposure evaluation more accurate.

    -Marc

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    Re: H4D40 , some thoughts

    thank you all for the detailed explanation. looked through the files again. even in the studio shooting with flash and having enabled daylight-WB the colors were accurate !!

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    Re: H4D40 , some thoughts

    Marc,

    does MWB work for you?

    I changed the Stop Down Button too to MWB and used a WhiBal Card.
    When I open the pic in Phocus the colors are off - a little
    bit greenish.

    But when I use the grey card 'normally', i can correct post in Phocus and the WB seems to be correct.

    Did I make a mistake? MWB with my Nikon D3 works well, as expected. But Not with my H4D40.

    regards
    Michael

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    Re: H4D40 , some thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Iskander View Post
    Marc,

    does MWB work for you?

    I changed the Stop Down Button too to MWB and used a WhiBal Card.
    When I open the pic in Phocus the colors are off - a little
    bit greenish.

    But when I use the grey card 'normally', i can correct post in Phocus and the WB seems to be correct.

    Did I make a mistake? MWB with my Nikon D3 works well, as expected. But Not with my H4D40.

    regards
    Michael
    I'm now using a new wipeable plastic "Digital Grey Kard" ... what are you using? My older card stock grey card had slightly color shifted over the years from exposure to the sun.

    Also, do you have Phocus WB set to "as shot"? If not, it won't show the Manual White Balance you did.

    I use MWB as much to evaluate the exposure as much as anything. Too much cool cast or warm cast can actually be underexposed when corrected in post ... and since I shoot at ISO 400 and 800 a lot, this is not desirable.

    My evaluation criteria for Manual White Balance tends to be skin tones and the white subjects like a wedding dress or tux shirt. But just using those white subjects is not always accurate as some wedding dresses are not true white ... or the type of fabric has an odd reflectance quality in mixed ambient light ... so I try to use the Digital Grey Kard as much as possible.

    One way you could check your MWB would be to shoot a controlled scene both ways (MWB with a grey card in the scene, and without MWB shoot a Grey card in the scene using the appropriate WB setting ... and then in Phocus, see if using the WB eyedropper on grey card in the Manual White Balance scene favorably changes the cast.

    I'd do this as an available light test in mixed ambient light where Manual White Balance is needed. Using strobes in studio, or daylight on a bright clear day, will be pretty accurate without Manual White Balance.

    If you are consistently getting a slight green cast with Manual White Balance no matter what, you can calibrate a Phocus preset to adjust for it ...

    Under the Adjustments tab > Color Correction you can neutralize the color balance, and then click on the little arrow to create a Preset which you can name Manual White Balance. Then just batch all manual WB shots with that one click adjustment.

    There is also Scene Calibration where a Preset can be done ... but I don't quite understand how to use that yet. Always something to learn. It's endless



    -Marc

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    Re: H4D40 , some thoughts

    Many thanks, Marc.

    I'm using the WhiBal Cards. Usually they are very correct (i.e. with my D3).

    Your post is very helpfull and I will try your recommendations.
    Especially your idea with the color correction in Phocus. That's new to me.

    Michael

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    Re: H4D40 , some thoughts

    Thanks for the advice fellas will have a look into it once my Camera finally arrives
    www.williamophuis.com

    Hassy H4D-40.

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