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Thread: Canon 1Ds3 vs Mamyia ZD vs 6x17 on film ? Which to buy ?

  1. #1
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    Canon 1Ds3 vs Mamyia ZD vs 6x17 on film ? Which to buy ?

    Ah.. decisions decisions....

    So here I am, deciding what to do.

    I have a Leica M8 body and while a M9 seems a fantastic proposition, I'm currently happy with it. Yes the noise is better, yes its 18mp vs 10mp , yadada.

    But before the M9 came out the M8 was good enough and today still is.

    I would like though another camera so I can shoot landscapes with higher quality and well, more "hummpppft".

    Few options within my budget :

    - used Mamyia ZD + 80mm - yes, I know it sucks at high ISO's and its yesterday's news but.. still a valid choice ?

    - used Canon 1Ds3 - very good all arounder, higher than mamiya

    - Fuji GX617 - going nuts with film

    Now, I would prefer the convenience of digital and thats why the idea of the ZD + 1Ds...

    But I don't want something that :

    1 - its only a bit better than my M8
    2 - replaces or competes for attention ( if I can say this ) with my M8

    Thats why the 1Ds has the frown for me : its a much more capable camera than the M8 and thats I dont like much the idea of the 1Ds.

    The ZD gets the frown because although very good, more than 100 ISO is a nono and long exposures is again a nono, which is bad. Also its not yesterday, its quite a few yesterdays technology.

    The only bad thing about the GX617 is that is film and that well.. its a bit of pain. My plan with the GX617 is to develop the things at the lab and then after looking at the slides on a lighttable, get them scanned on a Hassie 848 they have.

    I would love to go Hasselblad H2D or H3D ( 20 ish ) but the problem is money , lets face it.

    I can get around 2500GB, thats roughly 3000 euros or 3500 usd on cash and then same thing if I trade in my Leica MP Anthracite , so I got , I go in a store to trade in + cash around 5000 GBP / 5800 / 6500 usd.

    The other problem is that the MFD used market in Europe isnt all that bright and I have my options limited.

    My choice ? Would be a Hasselblad HD39II that apertureuk.com has but the 9500 is around 3500 out of my reach............

  2. #2
    tokengirl
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    Re: Canon 1Ds3 vs Mamyia ZD vs 6x17 on film ? Which to buy ?

    Since $ is an issue, I am wondering why you are asking about a used 1Ds3 instead of a new 5DMkII? If you're interested in landscapes, why do you need the fancy autofocus and higher FPS (and extra weight) of the 1Ds3? You could have a lot of money left over for some really nice glass if you went with the 5DMkII.

    I feel funny about saying all this in the MFDB forum...

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    Re: Canon 1Ds3 vs Mamyia ZD vs 6x17 on film ? Which to buy ?

    I would go ZD if tripod work is fine for you.
    617 great camera, I once had a Linhof 612 but frankly I dont like scanning-takes too much time plus you need an expensive scanner.

    DSLR will not give you the IQ advantage over the M8 other than more MP.

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    Re: Canon 1Ds3 vs Mamyia ZD vs 6x17 on film ? Which to buy ?

    Because the 5DMKII gets a BIGGER frown than the 1Ds3... its a direct competitor to the M8 and I love my M8 : its nice, got some nice Leica glas ( WATE, Noctilux, etc ) and its the perfect travel camera. Dont want a slighty bigger camera that does much more

    Want a big, MF beast ( or similar ) that really shines above.

    Plus I had a 1Ds body ( first iteration ) and loved it.

    Tested at the time a 5D and hated the thing.

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    Re: Canon 1Ds3 vs Mamyia ZD vs 6x17 on film ? Which to buy ?

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    I would go ZD if tripod work is fine for you.
    617 great camera, I once had a Linhof 612 but frankly I dont like scanning-takes too much time plus you need an expensive scanner.

    DSLR will not give you the IQ advantage over the M8 other than more MP.
    Tripod work is fine : I'm prepared to go 617 and that means living on a tripod

  6. #6
    tokengirl
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    Re: Canon 1Ds3 vs Mamyia ZD vs 6x17 on film ? Which to buy ?

    Quote Originally Posted by proenca View Post
    Because the 5DMKII gets a BIGGER frown than the 1Ds3... its a direct competitor to the M8 and I love my M8 : its nice, got some nice Leica glas ( WATE, Noctilux, etc ) and its the perfect travel camera. Dont want a slighty bigger camera that does much more

    Want a big, MF beast ( or similar ) that really shines above.

    Plus I had a 1Ds body ( first iteration ) and loved it.

    Tested at the time a 5D and hated the thing.
    I see. I use the 5DMkII, and occasionally I have a G10 in my pocket as well. I can't see any reason to ever get a DSLR as big and bulky as the 1Ds3 for landscapes - if I get something bigger than what I have now, it's going to be MF for sure.

  7. #7
    R Shaffer
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    Re: Canon 1Ds3 vs Mamyia ZD vs 6x17 on film ? Which to buy ?

    I kinda went through the same thought process, I was considering either a MFD, a Nikon D700 or an Imacon scanner. Decided to go with the MFD as I was mostly shooting medium format. The 617 is a really cool format and would be a lot of fun.
    I just posted a rather lengthy review of my new ZDb. IMO noise, even at 400 ISO was no big deal, then again my D200 was never known as an overachiever in the noise department.

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    Re: Canon 1Ds3 vs Mamyia ZD vs 6x17 on film ? Which to buy ?

    Obsession about resoultion and quality isn't healthy. When you jump from 9x12 or whatever to a 1ds, dont know what to choose, then there is a 99% chance that you are totally confused.

    The best picture making device is your inner peace - which you are about to loose when you become confused. Don't want to sound like a teacher here, but you are looking in the wrong direction. Dont buy anything and use what you have.

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    Re: Canon 1Ds3 vs Mamyia ZD vs 6x17 on film ? Which to buy ?

    I am not sure if I should say anything here, but I have both Leica M8, MF film, MF digital and am about to embark on LF film (4x5). The reason for the LF is that I found myself preferring film over digital with my medium format system. I still use my MFDB for some things, but I get a far better experience out of shooting film. For this reason, and since some of my shots in my current project could have benefited from technical movements, I decided to try out 4x5.

    I think that in order to make the decision you need to answer make a basic choice:

    1) Do you have specific technical needs to fill, such as prints of a certain size?

    or

    2) Are you looking for a more satisfying experience while shooting?

    For me 2) turned out to be primary, and that drove my move to 4x5. Tech movements were of course also important, which only helped to reinforce the decision. I will have to see how that turns out though.
    Carsten - Website

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Canon 1Ds3 vs Mamyia ZD vs 6x17 on film ? Which to buy ?

    I have had a 1dsIII and a 5dII and the 5dII is just better: it has the same MP and resolution and FOV and slightly better higher ISO. 5DII AF is less sophisticated but more accurate. Weather sealing is less good but weight is far lighter and feel is great. You will need a less weighty tripod too. Other than at higher ISO, IQ is almost identical. However I prefer the files from the M9 to either of the Canons and up to a2+ print size I prefer the M8 files to either Canon too.

    So if you are going DSLR, go 5DII.... however, though i keep one for those jobs where a DSLR with long focal lengths or high ISO or fast frame rates etc are required, I almost never get the thrill from a Canon file that I got every day from an M8 file or get constantly from an M9.

    If I were you I would therefore just go M9. It is worth it, really, and is the closest you will get to true MFDB without actually going there IMHO...

    t

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    Re: Canon 1Ds3 vs Mamyia ZD vs 6x17 on film ? Which to buy ?

    Ditto!

    (BTW, where did the "+1" business come from?)

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    Re: Canon 1Ds3 vs Mamyia ZD vs 6x17 on film ? Which to buy ?

    I had a 1Ds3, ZD (camera) and M8 all at the same time, and there really isn't as much overlap as one may expect. The ZD is an ISO 50 camera, so it needs alot of light. If conditions aren't bright, there's not much point. The LCD can be a problem because it's near impossible to gauge the image quality. IMO the ZD is for "fun" and when in the mood to shoot medium format.

    The 1Ds3 is obviously large, so it's not a good "grab & go" shooting camera for the day (in terms of casual personal shooting). I used the 1Ds3 for specific reasons such as - needed an ultra wide or long(er) focal lengths, if weather is bad it's the definite go-to camera, ISO performance is quite good, if quick AF is needed, etc.

    Lastly, the M8 was probably the most used of the bunch. If weather was good (no rain, etc), then I tended to pick-up the M8 over the other cameras because it was small and easy to bring with. Many times I would pair the M with the 1Ds3 or ZD depending on the conditions. If it was a bright, mid-day - the ZD was a winner (great DR). If conditions were mixed, fading light, etc., then 1Ds3 was a great combo.

    I wouldn't worry so much about favoring one camera over the other. Instead, pick one that will best fill gaps where the M8 is weak (for your uses). The M8 is quite small compared to the 1Ds3 and ZD, and that size difference will govern the choices more than you may expect. For me it tended to come down to, "do I want to carry a big camera or a small camera today?"

    As an example - M8 , 1Ds3 and ZD all used in the same day

    M8 w/ 90 cron for the reach


    Also had the ZD in the bag, a wider shot with 80mm, very high DR conditions


    Later that evening, shooting at sunset. This was ISO 800 & 1Ds3 + 24-105L @ 105mm
    Last edited by John Black; 2nd March 2010 at 04:23.

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    Following with interest

    Have you done any studio work with the ZDb?

    Thanks;

    Dave

  14. #14
    DougDolde
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    Re: Canon 1Ds3 vs Mamyia ZD vs 6x17 on film ? Which to buy ?

    Based on my experience shooting bot 617 film and making panoramas by stitching with digital, the latter wins hands down. And that's even with a 16 megapixel Kodak DCS back on a Contax 645. Much more detail and the choice of lenses is great.

    617 film is a very expensive and specialized solution especially if you buy a 617 and several lenses.

    Did I mention buying, processing, and scanning film is a process I'm glad to be done with?

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    Re: Following with interest

    Quote Originally Posted by djonesii View Post
    Have you done any studio work with the ZDb?

    Thanks;

    Dave
    Are you asking me? If so, I've done portraits with ZD and did not like it because the LCD is too small for reviewing focus and lighting. You could shoot tethered, but it would be slow. If you're talking about still life, then the ZD is quite good. For moving models, portraits, etc., I'd pick something that worked well tethered (meaning FAST!). If doing portraits, etc., I'd much rather use a 1Ds3 over medium format, but that's me & my preferences.

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    Re: Canon 1Ds3 vs Mamyia ZD vs 6x17 on film ? Which to buy ?

    I would not make any quick purchases until we see what the Pentax offering is... and even then the Canon stays in my bag and I will MFD for slow work.

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    Re: Canon 1Ds3 vs Mamyia ZD vs 6x17 on film ? Which to buy ?

    Just to give you all a quick update : I REALLY though about this and made my decision :

    Medium Format is a great medium BUT :

    MF in film is tough - film scanning, processing, etc it reminds me why I love digital
    MF in digital is bloody expensive - I'm a Leica nuts and that drives my economy up and down already
    1Ds/D3X/etc : although any of it quite a leap from a M8, they are NOT a major jump from a M9 : or at all, depending on what we are watching ... so...

    M9 it is.

    Called my dealer on Friday and said "so it seems the day has come, get me a black M9".

    He called me 10 minutes ago and said "got 3 here so ... one is yours ? ".

    "#$)="#($=.

    Said yes.

    My M8 is up for grabs in the sale section by the way

    Thanks all for all inputs and seems I will be a soon a M9 owner.

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    tokengirl
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    Re: Canon 1Ds3 vs Mamyia ZD vs 6x17 on film ? Which to buy ?

    Congratulations!

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    Re: Canon 1Ds3 vs Mamyia ZD vs 6x17 on film ? Which to buy ?

    I greatly prefer digital for various practical reasons, mainly because film is fragile - especially sensitive to heat - and bulky, and tends to dominate logistical planning. It's much easier to accidentally open the back of a loaded camera or film back than it is to destroy the contents of a card. When half a suitcase is film I tend to get paranoid about whether it goes in the trunk of a car or sits on a hot tarmac, or gets x-rayed in some third-world country with yesterday's surplus screening equipment. Digital to me brings so many fewer hassles and greater freedom. Sure, a 645 SLR+DB is big and bulky compared to a Mamiya 7, but I still find it liberating not to have to plan around the innate needs of film. And in terms of size... once you factor in the physical volume of 120/220 to last for 4-6 weeks it all packs to about the same size. (Lenses weigh more than film though.)


    Golden Temple, Amrirsar; Mamiya 7 + 80; Ektachrome 200 Pro

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    Re: Canon 1Ds3 vs Mamyia ZD vs 6x17 on film ? Which to buy ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Brittenson View Post
    I greatly prefer digital for various practical reasons, mainly because film is fragile - especially sensitive to heat - and bulky, and tends to dominate logistical planning. It's much easier to accidentally open the back of a loaded camera or film back than it is to destroy the contents of a card. When half a suitcase is film I tend to get paranoid about whether it goes in the trunk of a car or sits on a hot tarmac, or gets x-rayed in some third-world country with yesterday's surplus screening equipment. Digital to me brings so many fewer hassles and greater freedom. Sure, a 645 SLR+DB is big and bulky compared to a Mamiya 7, but I still find it liberating not to have to plan around the innate needs of film. And in terms of size... once you factor in the physical volume of 120/220 to last for 4-6 weeks it all packs to about the same size. (Lenses weigh more than film though.)


    Golden Temple, Amrirsar; Mamiya 7 + 80; Ektachrome 200 Pro
    Great picture. At first sight I was surprised how natural your shot looks - after reading your reasoning for digital. Then I saw it is film you used.
    Once again - there is simply no contest. Film looks just so much more lively and organic IF it is used for the right application and in the right way.

    Glad we still can use both, digital and film.

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