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Thread: H4D40 vs Phase one P40+

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    Senior Member mAlKhamis's Avatar
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    H4D40 vs Phase one P40+

    Dear all,

    I'm so honored to join this amazing forum, and i'm so excited to join the world of medium format, i've recently managed to sold my old 35mm digital system (1ds mark III + L-lenses) seeking for better quality with medium format, as i had great experience shooting with my friends H3D-30 and Phase one P30+
    both were great cameras with greater capabilities.

    any way i'm now studying my options carefully, and now i'm struggling between H4D-40 and Phase one P40+
    I need the new system for landscape photography, night long exposure photography and slow micro photography.
    any advices or tips to look after while choosing between the two systems ?

    i'm leaning toward the phase one p40+ because of the open plateform system and sensor+ technology, however i care more about quality and reliability of the system.

    thank you so much

    cheers!
    Mohammad Al-Khamis

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    Re: H4D40 vs Phase one P40+

    Hi Mohammad,

    Seeing as you mention night photography, I am not sure what the max time is of the P40+ so look into that. The H4D40 is just over 4 minutes, which to be honest puts you in the dark when you get to that sort of exposure.

    You might like to have a look at this thread, with a sort of night time shot I took...

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14634

    It also shows the impressive ISO800 performance which I think is in a class of its own.

    Cheers,


    David

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    Senior Member mAlKhamis's Avatar
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    Re: H4D40 vs Phase one P40+

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Hi Mohammad,

    Seeing as you mention night photography, I am not sure what the max time is of the P40+ so look into that. The H4D40 is just over 4 minutes, which to be honest puts you in the dark when you get to that sort of exposure.

    You might like to have a look at this thread, with a sort of night time shot I took...

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14634

    It also shows the impressive ISO800 performance which I think is in a class of its own.

    Cheers,


    David
    Thank you so much David,, i really appreciate your tip, it looks awesome man,, well done,, i will certainly look into it.

    cheers!
    Mohammad Al-Khamis

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    Re: H4D40 vs Phase one P40+

    Quote Originally Posted by mAlKhamis View Post
    now i'm struggling between H4D-40 and Phase one P40+
    I need the new system for landscape photography, night long exposure photography and slow micro photography.
    any advices or tips to look after while choosing between the two systems ?

    i'm leaning toward the phase one p40+ because of the open plateform system and sensor+ technology, however i care more about quality and reliability of the system.
    some thoughts:
    - in the fields of photography you've mentioned you won't need sensor+ (it will give you better high ISO performance but at a quarter of the resolution... so 10MP with the P40+)
    - I'd take a close look at lens options for macro as well as finder options
    - as to long exposure the P40+ does only one or two minutes (not quite sure but it's not really long)
    - a P45+ will do 1 hour exposure (and even longer)
    - for landscape photography you might consider a sensor with less crop factor (crop factor of P40+ and H40 is 1.3)... so from my point of view you should look at H39/P45+ or H60/P65+ (but only the P45+ will do really long exposure)

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    Senior Member mAlKhamis's Avatar
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    Re: H4D40 vs Phase one P40+

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    some thoughts:
    - in the fields of photography you've mentioned you won't need sensor+ (it will give you better high ISO performance but at a quarter of the resolution... so 10MP with the P40+)
    - I'd take a close look at lens options for macro as well as finder options
    - as to long exposure the P40+ does only one or two minutes (not quite sure but it's not really long)
    - a P45+ will do 1 hour exposure (and even longer)
    - for landscape photography you might consider a sensor with less crop factor (crop factor of P40+ and H40 is 1.3)... so from my point of view you should look at H39/P45+ or H60/P65+ (but only the P45+ will do really long exposure)
    Dear Thomas,

    thank you so much for excellent tips,,, i will certainly look into that, the reason for choosing the cropped sensor is it because i can use it for many purposes, i tried shooting with my friends P25+ and i had issues with maintaining my DOF in many conditions, cropped sensor was to me closer to the 35mm system, and gave more control for many situations especially in macro photography. with cropped sensor i can handhold my camera when i can't use a tripod for shooting. but again i really appreciate your tips,, you brought to me some important issues to consider !!

    cheers!
    Mohammad Al-Khamis

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    Re: H4D40 vs Phase one P40+

    Quote Originally Posted by mAlKhamis View Post
    thank you so much for excellent tips
    you're welcome. Just some little points to start with...

    cropped sensor was to me closer to the 35mm system, and gave more control for many situations especially in macro photography. with cropped sensor i can handhold my camera when i can't use a tripod for shooting.
    makes sense.
    However long exposure is Phase One territory. And this goes only for the last generation backs with Kodak sensor. The P30+ can also do 1 hour exposure. The latest generation Dalsa sensors in P65/P40 don't do it here (at least not by today).
    But maybe the 4 minutes of the H40 are okay? Don't know what you mean with "long exposure"....
    Basically for long exposure it is better to set the back to base ISO - but maybe David can tell you something about 4 minutes exposure at higher ISO settings. Who knows, maybe that's what you need?!

    As to macro... me personally I'd appreciate a nice, big finder (unless you shoot tethered). And of those "small" 645 cameras that's Hasselblad territory. (Or Contax... with custom made screens and waist level finder.)

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    Re: H4D40 vs Phase one P40+

    The basic sensor difference are:

    The Hasselblad H4D/40 is a Kodak sensor that does up to 4 minute exposures without the need for a second dark slide exposure at an equal length of time like necessary with Phase One P45+, etc..

    How good a 4 minute exposure from the H4D/40 camera really is, remains to be seen.

    The Phase One P40+ and P65+ AND Hassey H4D/60 use a Dalsa sensor, and do not do long exposures as of now. I wouldn't count on an improvement to match the H4D/40 based on previous Dalsa sensors. But you never know what the Elves are able to do. What that file would look like is also an unknown.

    The camera differences are:

    The Hasselblad is a leaf shutter system and has a top shutter speed of 1/800th ... with all lenses syncing flash up to that speed. With mirror up, the shutter is very quiet and produces very little shutter vibration if any ... at least none that I've noticed. The H4D can be used with a waist level finder, the Phase One camera cannot. However, you lose any auto metering ability with the H4D when using the WLF.

    The Phase One is a focal plane shutter camera with some key lenses available as leaf shutter solutions on any P1 kit ... and are able to provide even higher sync speeds than the H4D @ 1/800th ... but only when used on the P40+ and P65+.

    Both cameras have significantly improved their AF systems ... with a fresh innovation from Hasselblad called True Focus for off-center focusing rather than multiple focus points in the viewfinder like your Canon has.

    Not an easy choice as both cameras are top notch performers. So it depends on usage and personal preference. Best to try both out.

    -Marc

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    Senior Member etrump's Avatar
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    Re: H4D40 vs Phase one P40+

    Either camera would be fantastic, but neither will do that wonderful for nighttime photography. I don't do a lot of nighttime photography but decided a d3x and d3s would fill that niche for me. It left me open to the P65+ which I use more than 90% of the time and am blown away by the IQ. With sensor+ you get really good high iso performance but it won't give you a 30 minute exposure like the nikon or canon bodies will.

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    Senior Member mAlKhamis's Avatar
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    Re: H4D40 vs Phase one P40+

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    you're welcome. Just some little points to start with...

    makes sense.
    However long exposure is Phase One territory. And this goes only for the last generation backs with Kodak sensor. The P30+ can also do 1 hour exposure. The latest generation Dalsa sensors in P65/P40 don't do it here (at least not by today).
    But maybe the 4 minutes of the H40 are okay? Don't know what you mean with "long exposure"....
    Basically for long exposure it is better to set the back to base ISO - but maybe David can tell you something about 4 minutes exposure at higher ISO settings. Who knows, maybe that's what you need?!

    As to macro... me personally I'd appreciate a nice, big finder (unless you shoot tethered). And of those "small" 645 cameras that's Hasselblad territory. (Or Contax... with custom made screens and waist level finder.)
    mmmm thomas again i agree with you some how,, it make sense !!

    thank you so much man, i really appreciate, how about the build quality of H4d vs P1 ?? any idea which one is long lasting,, this is my life investment guys !!!
    Mohammad Al-Khamis

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    Senior Member mAlKhamis's Avatar
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    Re: H4D40 vs Phase one P40+

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    The basic sensor difference are:

    The Hasselblad H4D/40 is a Kodak sensor that does up to 4 minute exposures without the need for a second dark slide exposure at an equal length of time like necessary with Phase One P45+, etc..

    How good a 4 minute exposure from the H4D/40 camera really is, remains to be seen.

    The Phase One P40+ and P65+ AND Hassey H4D/60 use a Dalsa sensor, and do not do long exposures as of now. I wouldn't count on an improvement to match the H4D/40 based on previous Dalsa sensors. But you never know what the Elves are able to do. What that file would look like is also an unknown.

    The camera differences are:

    The Hasselblad is a leaf shutter system and has a top shutter speed of 1/800th ... with all lenses syncing flash up to that speed. With mirror up, the shutter is very quiet and produces very little shutter vibration if any ... at least none that I've noticed. The H4D can be used with a waist level finder, the Phase One camera cannot. However, you lose any auto metering ability with the H4D when using the WLF.

    The Phase One is a focal plane shutter camera with some key lenses available as leaf shutter solutions on any P1 kit ... and are able to provide even higher sync speeds than the H4D @ 1/800th ... but only when used on the P40+ and P65+.

    Both cameras have significantly improved their AF systems ... with a fresh innovation from Hasselblad called True Focus for off-center focusing rather than multiple focus points in the viewfinder like your Canon has.

    Not an easy choice as both cameras are top notch performers. So it depends on usage and personal preference. Best to try both out.

    -Marc
    Marc what enlightening points,, thanks man you made me lean more to the H4D40 and now i'm struggling more

    cheers! my friend
    Mohammad Al-Khamis

  11. #11
    Senior Member mAlKhamis's Avatar
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    Re: H4D40 vs Phase one P40+

    Quote Originally Posted by etrump View Post
    Either camera would be fantastic, but neither will do that wonderful for nighttime photography. I don't do a lot of nighttime photography but decided a d3x and d3s would fill that niche for me. It left me open to the P65+ which I use more than 90% of the time and am blown away by the IQ. With sensor+ you get really good high iso performance but it won't give you a 30 minute exposure like the nikon or canon bodies will.
    thank you so much Ed, i'm kind of realizing that, therefore i'm considering Lieca M9 as my second system cheers! my friend !
    Mohammad Al-Khamis

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