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Hasselblad H3D 50 II Multishot Versus Phase One P65+ / 645AF

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Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Hey folks...

I just returned yesterday from our Salton Sea workshop, so missed most of this thread while it was going on and need to weigh in...

First off, I will point you to our forum rules section and remind you that we place polite discussion above all else. So while you are welcome to disagree with the writer of the article, free to offer suggestions about how his test might have been improved, and even suggest he could have worded his feelings towards Hasselblad a bit more civilly, it does not mean you have free reign to turn to personalized attacks against him and name calling.

Secondly, I met Mark a few years ago when he was just getting into single-capture MF and I can tell you he is a good guy and is technically savvy when it comes to digital imaging. He is not a member of GetDPI that I know of, and frankly I'm not sure he even reads our site, but regardless our rules hold, and as such I remind you that he (and/or Michael Reichmann and/or the Luminous Landscape site in general) deserve to be treated respectfully. So let's get off the name calling and elevate the discussion to a more professional level going forward.

Thank you,

Jack
~~~

PS edit: I just read the article in question and have a few additional comments. I would like to point out that Mark did in fact add a disclaimer about being biased, and while he didn't specifically indicate he was not facile with Phocus, I think the implication was there. In fact I give him credit for offering essentially the same set of disclaimers that I did when we did the S2 and P40+/P65+ comparison.

Thanks again,
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Have to agree with Jack , I hear nice things of him and he is very competent shooter. So the test may not what you believe is valued or not regardless we at GetDpi do NOT condone personal attacks. I'm out of the office and on iPhone but let's chill on him please.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Now,

Speaking personally going forward, I think the best thing they could do at this point is offer up the raws as we did in the S2 comparison -- I'd even be happy to host them for him if he has limited bandwidth. In this fashion our more experienced Phocus users could have a crack at them and we could perhaps get a more substantive comparison.
 

Nick-T

New member
I have to agree with David. I have been shooting multi-shot commercially for 10 years and the difference between multi and single is very pronounced for static subjects. The comments about "over saturated" colours do not add up and indicate that the tester made a mistake somewhere. I think it's a shame that such a deeply flawed review should be endorsed by Luminous Landscape.
Nick-T
 

arashm

Member
wow
I don't own any MF DB gear, but I'm a frequent renter, I shoot both Phase and hasselblad.
My choice when renting is based on needs, availability and pricing.
I prefer Capture one software to Phocus, that's my bias/opinion.
Even then I have no idea what the reviewer is speaking about with Phocus defaults being "Velvia ++" IF anything I always find images open up very flat in phocus before applying any correction. It's True that phocus does pre apply your DAC correction, but nothing else at the start.
I can't for a second agree with his conclusion that the H3D2-50 is so disappointing in single capture mode. I have personally shot with the H3D2-50 and find the files superb. I have never shot with any sort of MS back so can't comment on that.
If anything when I did my very first MF demo it was with a P30+ on a AFD3 body and H3D2-31 side by side for a full weekend, phase files were processed with 4.x and the HB with phocus 1.x
processing the same image shot with both camera's back to back, I regularly managed to produce files that were 99.9% identical, and one had to resort to the file names to determine which is which.
Both Phocus and C1 have improved since then, so I can't see why his test are so far apart.

As I said earlier I don't own either system, but I do find such reviews very disappointing, Frankly if this was my own test the results were so far apart, I would stop and see if there is a flaw in the gear or workflow.
but hey that's just me!
ok off the soap box.
am
 

jecxz

Active member
Exactly, you can turn it off, but actually this is one of the coolest functions/features of Phocus. I have this always on!
I didn't mean it that way, I was just correcting the notion that it can't be turned off. It is a very good feature indeed. Be well.

Kind regards,
Derek
 

arashm

Member
Derek
your correct, and I didn't mean to give the impression that it can't be over-riden
I think the general notion here is that it's cool for it to be on and have all the files look right from the start.
thanks
am
 

Bill Caulfeild-Browne

Well-known member
Have to agree with Jack , I hear nice things of him and he is very competent shooter. So the test may not what you believe is valued or not regardless we at GetDpi do NOT condone personal attacks. I'm out of the office and on iPhone but let's chill on him please.
Jack and Guy,

I strongly agree with you both. I have shot with Mark and believe me, he's a fine shooter, fine artist and to the extent I am qualified to judge, a fine scientist. (Also, if it's relevant, a fine wine lover too!)

I don't have strong opinions on his article because I've never shot H'Blad digital. But I implicitly trust him to write an honest review as he sees things.

Bill
 

Nick-T

New member
Jack and Guy,

I strongly agree with you both. I have shot with Mark and believe me, he's a fine shooter, fine artist and to the extent I am qualified to judge, a fine scientist. (Also, if it's relevant, a fine wine lover too!)

I don't have strong opinions on his article because I've never shot H'Blad digital. But I implicitly trust him to write an honest review as he sees things.

Bill
I'm sure he's a good guy.
He has however made some significant errors along the way that have resulted in a completely flawed result. The article should really be taken down..

Nick-T
 
T

tetsrfun

Guest
I'm sure he's a good guy.
He has however made some significant errors along the way that have resulted in a completely flawed result. The article should really be taken down..

Nick-T
The comments at LuLA have gone far out into the weeds so I will ask here. In the article fig 3 is a comparison between 'blad-phase but the "phase" capture is labeled multi-shot. I may be reading it wrong but..

My question is, in fig 3, left panel there is severe blue color fringing in the trees. I see the same effect with my "entry" level CFV back in similar situations. Is this an inherent problem with digital, Kodak sensors, some/all Hasselblad backs or something else? I usually discard images that have this problem but I found one still "lurking" in my files.

Steve
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Jack and Guy,

I strongly agree with you both. I have shot with Mark and believe me, he's a fine shooter, fine artist and to the extent I am qualified to judge, a fine scientist. (Also, if it's relevant, a fine wine lover too!)

I don't have strong opinions on his article because I've never shot H'Blad digital. But I implicitly trust him to write an honest review as he sees things.

Bill
Not sure what bearing the "buddy" reference has to do with anything.

Let's cut to the chase:

Does ANYONE here really think a Hasselblad H camera overexposes as much as stated in this review? Really now, do you?

How many contrary testimonials by a number of owner/shooters concerning color comments/Phocus are required to counter this single review? One from a skilled user like Nick T should be enough ... but it isn't.

The bias caveats that he states up front do not absolve someone from the responsibility of coming to biased conclusions under the guise of a "scientific" comparison which these tests always are viewed as.

I grasp his credentials regarding Phase products ... I see nothing to indicate any credentials concerning the use of current Hasselblad products.



Here is an honest opinion of my own. (My friends think I'm a nice guy, a pretty good at what I do, and I also like fine wine ... but then, that also described Bernie Madoff, so we'll set that aside).

This is a terribly flawed report that does a disservice to the whole arena of Medium Format Digital Photography.

IMO, this Bi-partisan squabbling is getting more sickening by the day and is sucking the fun out of coming here to share photographic adventures.

Marc
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Agreed Marc. Let's all get back to sharing photographic adventures.

:)
 
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