Site Sponsors
Results 1 to 50 of 50

Thread: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    581
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Not my finest seascape, but it was an interesting experiment. This was taken 35 minutes before sunrise this morning. I was interested in noise, in particular. This is straight out of the camera. My conclusion is that there ain't no noise in the darkest areas. I will happily Yousend it to anyone who wants the FFF.
    Last edited by Jeffg53; 6th March 2010 at 13:52. Reason: Added offer to send file.
    Cheers,
    Jeff
    www.jeff-grant.com

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,587
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Looks pretty sweet, doesn't it!
    It's amazing how much these high end products have matured over the last four or five years.

  3. #3
    Subscriber and Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,799
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffg53 View Post
    Not my finest seascape, but it was an interesting experiment. This was taken 35 minutes before sunrise this morning. I was interested in noise, in particular. This is straight out of the camera. My conclusion is that there ain't no noise in the darkest areas. I will happily Yousend it to anyone who wants the FFF.
    Jeff,

    I would love to play with the FFF. PM sent.

    Thanks,

    Bob

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    561
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Thanks Jeff.

    Looks great! I wouldn't mind the 3F if you are still happy to share?

    D

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    581
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    David, you should have it via Yousendit.
    Cheers,
    Jeff
    www.jeff-grant.com

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    561
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Thanks Jeff!

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Impressive Jeff..

  8. #8
    Senior Member mAlKhamis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Davis, California
    Posts
    373
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    beautiful !! i'm crying now !
    Mohammad Al-Khamis

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    313
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Jeff has been kind enough to share some of his thoughts on the H4D40 on my blog here:

    www.nick-t.com/blog

  10. #10
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austria, close to Vienna
    Posts
    3,870
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Beautiful samples and great camera!

    MF seems to come really pretty close to high end DSLRs in terms of speed and operability, of course with higher IQ. Question is for how long, as next generation top DSLRs will have around 30MP themselves but offer all the flexibility of 35mm FF systems and much lower price.

    Interesting times

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    581
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    I can't see them approaching MF quality any time soon, but that is probably a very silly thing to say.
    Cheers,
    Jeff
    www.jeff-grant.com

  12. #12
    Not Available
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    1,864
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    With a DSLR, even full frame - the sensor can only be so large. Cramming more pixels into the same area makes for tiny, noisy pixels. Sure, the two platforms will leap frog, one over the other, in perpetuity...

    But my bet's on MF for IQ. I do see the convenience, ergonomics, features, etc. blurring more though.

  13. #13
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austria, close to Vienna
    Posts
    3,870
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Negative View Post
    With a DSLR, even full frame - the sensor can only be so large. Cramming more pixels into the same area makes for tiny, noisy pixels. Sure, the two platforms will leap frog, one over the other, in perpetuity...

    But my bet's on MF for IQ. I do see the convenience, ergonomics, features, etc. blurring more though.
    This is not the point! Of course MF IQ is better and will be always better than FF DSLR, but FF DSLR reaches a level meanwhile, which is very mature and close to MF.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Saffron Walden, UK
    Posts
    1,983
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    58

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Looks great. I have arranged a demo of a H4D-50 next Tuesday. I hope the 50 is as good at long exposures.

    Quentin
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    313
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Looks great. I have arranged a demo of a H4D-50 next Tuesday. I hope the 50 is as good at long exposures.

    Quentin
    Quentin
    Worth noting that the 50 is not microlensed so will offer a stop less sensitivity.
    Nick-T

  16. #16
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter, Fla.
    Posts
    1,967
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Very impressive Jeff, thanks for sharing. That location looks like it would lend itself to a beautiful pano, especially with the water all smoothed out from the long exposure.

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    581
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Thanks David. It probably would. I've never tried it as panos aren't something that I do easily.
    Cheers,
    Jeff
    www.jeff-grant.com

  18. #18
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Saffron Walden, UK
    Posts
    1,983
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    58

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick-T View Post
    Quentin
    Worth noting that the 50 is not microlensed so will offer a stop less sensitivity.
    Nick-T
    Noted, Nick, but this won't matter for my purposes: more importantly, Hassy ofer a cross-upgrade trade in for my ZD camera if I buy the H4D-50 that is not available for the H4D-40, so it also makes good financial sense.

    Must say though that the shots from the 40 I have seen are the closest in terms of quality at the pixel level to a scanning back I have yet seen from a bayer type sensor.
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

  19. #19
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    I take delivery of my H4D/40 tomorrow!

    Now to hunt down a HTS 1.5 ... which should be interesting with the two mag factors combined ... the HC 100/2.2 X 1.5X = 150/3.3 X 1.3X crop factor = 195mm field of view with a 3.3 max aperture. A very desirable combo for a lot of the table top I do .... and will definitely be pressed into service for selective focus portrait work I've been dying to experiment with.

    Should be interesting.

    Thanks for the report! I'd love to do some long exposure cityscapes with merged files.

    -Marc

  20. #20
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Congrats Marc . Look forward to your thoughts on the 40 mpx sensors. i really am happy as a pig in ----
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  21. #21
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter, Fla.
    Posts
    1,967
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Congrats Marc . Look forward to your thoughts on the 40 mpx sensors.
    +1. New gear means fun times. I hope it's everything you're looking for.

  22. #22
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Marc,

    What monitor you running now? (I ask carefully as I don't want to start any flame wars, but honestly, I am seeing things on my wide-gamut monitor out of the Dalsa sensor I never saw from my Kodak sensor -- and good things... )
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  23. #23
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Actually Jack, Bob and I just bought the NEC wide gamut monitors and their is a whole new world out there in our files. Wow maybe not the correct word.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  24. #24
    Senior Member mAlKhamis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Davis, California
    Posts
    373
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Actually Jack, Bob and I just bought the NEC wide gamut monitors and their is a whole new world out there in our files. Wow maybe not the correct word.
    is it better than the 27inch imac ?

    I just can't wait to join you guys, i'm so over whelmed
    Mohammad Al-Khamis

  25. #25
    tetsrfun
    Guest

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Actually Jack, Bob and I just bought the NEC wide gamut monitors and their is a whole new world out there in our files. Wow maybe not the correct word.
    Which model number?

    Steve

  26. #26
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    the 30's; 3090 WQXi Spectraviews -- not the new 24"...
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  27. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,347
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Actually Jack, Bob and I just bought the NEC wide gamut monitors and their is a whole new world out there in our files
    and which monitors were you using prior to the new NECs?

  28. #28
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    I was using a 30" ACD -- and yeah, I know.... But the reality was I was printing to an x800 printer, and knew how to interpret the proof view more than adequately. I am now printing to a 7900 and while it can't hold everything the cameras can capture, it holds enough more I felt the wide-gamut monitor was justified. So it was with that installed, I started to see "more differences" between my P45+ files and my P65+ files.

    Now, I have not scientifically analyzed capture profiles from both cameras, so don't want to go too far out on a limb. That caveat stated, I will agree with other folks and say the Dalsa sensor seems more "film like." I think this is due to it rendering a bit more separation and saturation in the lower 1/4 tones, and a bit more separation in the upper 1/8th.

    Okay, now that I said it, I can already hear the wood being gathered....
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  29. #29
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Throw the match , someone must have the lighter fluid around here. LOL

    I had the 30 Inch Cinema and it is a great monitor this is just showing all kinds of detail in the shadows that i am pretty dang impressed. Need printer now
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  30. #30
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    4,043
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1253

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    what became of the Hasselblad H4D60? ether?

  31. #31
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,347
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    oh, okay.
    Yes, im comparison to those displays a wide gamut monitor providing hardware calibration is a totally different viewing experience. Maybe not that much due to the wider gamut but those displays are mostly very good linearized. So the differentation all over the tonal range is much better.
    Worthwhile investment - have fun!

  32. #32
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    South of England
    Posts
    3,295
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    I was using a 30" ACD -- and yeah, I know.... But the reality was I was printing to an x800 printer, and knew how to interpret the proof view more than adequately. I am now printing to a 7900 and while it can't hold everything the cameras can capture, it holds enough more I felt the wide-gamut monitor was justified. So it was with that installed, I started to see "more differences" between my P45+ files and my P65+ files.

    Now, I have not scientifically analyzed capture profiles from both cameras, so don't want to go too far out on a limb. That caveat stated, I will agree with other folks and say the Dalsa sensor seems more "film like." I think this is due to it rendering a bit more separation and saturation in the lower 1/4 tones, and a bit more separation in the upper 1/8th.

    Okay, now that I said it, I can already hear the wood being gathered....
    We should do a monitor thread... I just got a 30" Eizo sx3031W and it now runs next to my 30" ACD, and even when both have just been calibrated the Eizo looks too pink and the Apple looks too blue, but for sure the Eizo with 98 odd % of Adobe RGB is showing wonders from the P65+. I really like being able to switch instantly to sRGB too.

    As a side note I have rather shamefacedly started to mess about with Nik filters (I soooo hate fun with filters) and the P65+ files can handle these sorts of tweaks really nicely without starting to look fake. This is the top of a verrrry slippery slope me fears...

  33. #33
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Tim,

    Interesting comment as both Bob and I noticed the same thing -- ACD was blue after calibrating. What we noted is that if use the Apple default profile things look much better next to the NEC for some reason... (Actually, in the case of the NEC, the LUT is in the monitor itself, so the profile loaded into the system for it is dead linear -- if we load that, we get a very neutral and more similar rendering to the NEC.) Either may be worth a try for you...
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  34. #34
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,347
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    and even when both have just been calibrated the Eizo looks too pink and the Apple looks too blue
    this behavior is very well explained here: http://www.eizo.com/global/support/wp/pdf/wp_08-002.pdf
    If you use a colorimeter (instead of an spectrometer) you need a calibration software that is optimized for the calibration of wide gamut displays (i.e. a software that contsains correction tables for the measurement devices and the dedicated monitor). For your SX you can't use Eizo's Color Navigator... AFAIK... but "Basiccolor Display 4" resp. "Color Eyes" should do. You could also try Quato's "iColor Display" which is probably the best solution as it contains correction tables for Quato's Wide Gamut monitors. You can choose the monitor model from a pop up menu. In your case the correction tables for the Quato IP 242LE or IP220LE should work fine for your SX as they use the same or similar panels (AFAIK...). That is not as accurate as a dedicated correction table... but much better than using a software without any correction tables (mostly calibration softwares only provide simple correction curves for "CRT" and "LCD").
    If you use a spectrometer - like an i1Pro or a Colormunki - the software does not need to provide correction tables. If you use either an i1Pro or a Colormunki I'd recommend Basiccolor Display 4 as software.

  35. #35
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    South of England
    Posts
    3,295
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    this behavior is very well explained here: http://www.eizo.com/global/support/wp/pdf/wp_08-002.pdf
    If you use a colorimeter (instead of an spectrometer) you need a calibration software that is optimized for the calibration of wide gamut displays (i.e. a software that contsains correction tables for the measurement devices and the dedicated monitor). For your SX you can't use Eizo's Color Navigator... AFAIK... but "Basiccolor Display 4" resp. "Color Eyes" should do. You could also try Quato's "iColor Display" which is probably the best solution as it contains correction tables for Quato's Wide Gamut monitors. You can choose the monitor model from a pop up menu. In your case the correction tables for the Quato IP 242LE or IP220LE should work fine for your SX as they use the same or similar panels (AFAIK...). That is not as accurate as a dedicated correction table... but much better than using a software without any correction tables (mostly calibration softwares only provide simple correction curves for "CRT" and "LCD").
    If you use a spectrometer - like an i1Pro or a Colormunki - the software does not need to provide correction tables. If you use either an i1Pro or a Colormunki I'd recommend Basiccolor Display 4 as software.

    Hmm, I think some (possibly most) of that went whoosh over my head - damned color calibration! I use Eye-One Match with a Eye-One mouse shaped dangly thing (both of which came with my Z3100 printer) and I am intuiting that from what you say that ain't right! For now I'm defaulting to the profile that came with the monitor and when my head has stopped hurting I will work it out in full. Blimey, whatever you learn, it's never enough!

    Thanks Thomas!

  36. #36
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,347
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Hmm, I think some (possibly most) of that went whoosh over my head - damned color calibration! I use Eye-One Match with a Eye-One mouse shaped dangly thing (both of which came with my Z3100 printer) and I am intuiting that from what you say that ain't right! For now I'm defaulting to the profile that came with the monitor and when my head has stopped hurting I will work it out in full. Blimey, whatever you learn, it's never enough!
    yes, color management is like quicksand...
    i1 Match is maybe better than nothing but with regard to your photographic gear I'd buy a more mature software. Maybe you get a bundle of the DTP94 & iColor Display. That's a competent set... around €200,-.

  37. #37
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Maybe we should do a monitor thread. LOL

    Lot's to chat about
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  38. #38
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    this behavior is very well explained here: http://www.eizo.com/global/support/wp/pdf/wp_08-002.pdf
    If you use a colorimeter (instead of an spectrometer) you need a calibration software that is optimized for the calibration of wide gamut displays (i.e. a software that contsains correction tables for the measurement devices and the dedicated monitor).
    Thomas,

    Both Bob and I calibrated our NEC's with the NEC dedicated Spectro and software. Then we calibrated our ACD's conventionally with our i1 pro units (we both use i1 pro non-UV heads) with i1 match 3.6.3. In both cases, our ACD's were too blue. In Bob's case he said it made his NEC look warm, but to me, my NEC looked neutral and the ACD looked blue. For both of us, when we loaded the Apple default for the ACD it looked fine -- or more accurately was a closer match to the NEC. Since I only use the ACD for menus, I'd rather it matched the NEC than had a "proper" profile...
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  39. #39
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,347
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Both Bob and I calibrated our NEC's with the NEC dedicated Spectro and software. Then we calibrated our ACD's conventionally with our i1 pro units (we both use i1 pro non-UV heads) with i1 match 3.6.3. In both cases, our ACD's were too blue.
    that's most likely a problem of the Match software.
    Why not just adjust the white point of the ACD manually and then calibrate to the "native whitepoint" (i.e. the white point you' ve adjustet manually)? Or does the ACD doesn't provide RGB chanels?
    I set my white point manually even in single monitor use (to match my D50 ambient light and viewing booth - whereby "manually might sound misleading: my calibration software offers a manual adjustment of the hardware so you can take over that white point directly for the calibration). "Kelvin" is simply not accurate enough.

    we loaded the Apple default for the ACD it looked fine -- or more accurately was a closer match to the NEC. Since I only use the ACD for menus, I'd rather it matched the NEC than had a "proper" profile...
    yes, makes sense. the second monitor doesn't have to be accurate. The most important thing is that it does not distract or interfere adaption to the white point of your main color management display. Therefore it should also be a tad darker... in any case not (not a bit!) brigther than the NEC.

  40. #40
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Exactly -- the menu monitor is a neutral match and set about 10 lumen dimmer than the NEC.

    We now return you to your regular programming re the HD40 long exposures ()
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  41. #41
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    what became of the Hasselblad H4D60? ether?
    From what I can gather, the elves in Denmark found something they didn't like with the Dalsa sensor in relation to the Hasselblad imaging chain and are working on it. Haven't a clue what that might be or what they are doing ... but they seem to be taking their sweet time with it.

    Phase will have their P80+, 3D-D™, Triple Sensor Plus™, in camera T/S: Sensor Tilt™, out before Hassey gets this pup to market ...

    -Marc

  42. #42
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,347
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    From what I can gather, the elves in Denmark found something they didn't like with the Dalsa sensor in relation to the Hasselblad imaging chain and are working on it. Haven't a clue what that might be or what they are doing ... but they seem to be taking their sweet time with it.

    Phase will have their P80+, 3D-D™, Triple Sensor Plus™, in camera T/S: Sensor Tilt™, out before Hassey gets this pup to market ...

    -Marc
    btw: also Leaf released the Aptus-II 10 at about the same time when Phase released the P65+... and the Aptus is also based on the same 6µm Dalsa sensor.
    I think this dubious statement of the Hasselblad guy was a bit imprudent... and finally has a boomerang effect towards Hasselblad actually.

  43. #43
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    btw: also Leaf released the Aptus-II 10 at about the same time when Phase released the P65+... and the Aptus is also based on the same 6µm Dalsa sensor.
    I think this dubious statement of the Hasselblad guy was a bit imprudent... and finally has a boomerang effect towards Hasselblad actually.
    It isn't any specific official statement, or any details, so don't jump to conclusions, other than it's slow getting to market. Rather have it that way then not.

    Given Hasselblad's established imaging chain (in-camera firmware, Phocus software and things like HTS/1.5) they may have different tasks to complete to the reach the IQ they want. It has nothing to do with Phase or Leaf and their IQ.

    -Marc

  44. #44
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    581
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Having suffered with the red cast on an early H3D, I would prefer that they get it right. I was heartily miffed when the H3D II came out in less than a year after the H3D.
    Cheers,
    Jeff
    www.jeff-grant.com

  45. #45
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Got the H4D/40 ... WOW!

    I started using the True Focus immediately ... it is simply amazing ... and waaaaaay faster than using multiple focus points. This will change how I think about shooting with MFD. Kudos to Hasselblad on this one.

    -Marc

  46. #46
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,587
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Is it just me or do the downloadable samples on the Hasselblad web site shot with the H4D40 look, well, bad? They are preconverted from 3FR files but they are nothing compared to the sample above or others that David posted in terms of noise and artifact free details. Why don't they put raw files up for people to really assess file quality?

  47. #47
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    Is it just me or do the downloadable samples on the Hasselblad web site shot with the H4D40 look, well, bad? They are preconverted from 3FR files but they are nothing compared to the sample above or others that David posted in terms of noise and artifact free details. Why don't they put raw files up for people to really assess file quality?
    All I get is "Page Not Found" when I try to download.

    They do have a download area for RAW files, but images from the 40 or 50 aren't posted yet ... only the 31 and 39.

    The 40 samples (that I can't get to) are ones processed by specific photographers, so who knows what they were after in terms of look and style?

    I got my 40 yesterday, and so far, it looks good. Surprizingly good ISO 1600, especially for my applications. But I want to pull some prints.

    =Marc

  48. #48
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,587
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    You can download the samples via the H4D40 info / spec page. They are the ones by Steve McCurry etc that you mention. You are right, and that was my point, that they have been processed by someone else so one can't really judge the quality of the files like from a RAW file. If I didn't know any better I'd have looked at them and thought what any ignorant high end 35mm user would, that excepting for maybe absolute resolution, "my D3X is just as good as that for a fraction of the cost." We all know that this is just not the case, so why Hasselblad would post such poorly processed files on their site considering they want to attract those same high end 35mm users, I have no idea. But I'm preaching to the converted. It's just I've been researching a lot about MFD lately because soon I intend to jump on the wagon. I've pretty much decided on a P30+ and DF combo but my easily swayed heart keeps nagging me to consider the (usually more pricy) equivalent Hasselblad options. I've always lusted after a 'Blad digital, especially since talking with a few Magnum guys who use them. Hey, maybe it's partly hero worship that nags at my practical side, but those guys did speak very highly of their H cameras and backs.

    The sample files you posted in another thread do show more clearly how much better this new camera / sensor is to previous H generations, I just wonder why Hasselblad themselves can't properly illustrate this. Surely they want to shift more units and inspire people to upgrade?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    All I get is "Page Not Found" when I try to download.

    They do have a download area for RAW files, but images from the 40 or 50 aren't posted yet ... only the 31 and 39.

    The 40 samples (that I can't get to) are ones processed by specific photographers, so who knows what they were after in terms of look and style?

    I got my 40 yesterday, and so far, it looks good. Surprizingly good ISO 1600, especially for my applications. But I want to pull some prints.

    =Marc

  49. #49
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    You can download the samples via the H4D40 info / spec page. They are the ones by Steve McCurry etc that you mention. You are right, and that was my point, that they have been processed by someone else so one can't really judge the quality of the files like from a RAW file. If I didn't know any better I'd have looked at them and thought what any ignorant high end 35mm user would, that excepting for maybe absolute resolution, "my D3X is just as good as that for a fraction of the cost." We all know that this is just not the case, so why Hasselblad would post such poorly processed files on their site considering they want to attract those same high end 35mm users, I have no idea. But I'm preaching to the converted. It's just I've been researching a lot about MFD lately because soon I intend to jump on the wagon. I've pretty much decided on a P30+ and DF combo but my easily swayed heart keeps nagging me to consider the (usually more pricy) equivalent Hasselblad options. I've always lusted after a 'Blad digital, especially since talking with a few Magnum guys who use them. Hey, maybe it's partly hero worship that nags at my practical side, but those guys did speak very highly of their H cameras and backs.

    The sample files you posted in another thread do show more clearly how much better this new camera / sensor is to previous H generations, I just wonder why Hasselblad themselves can't properly illustrate this. Surely they want to shift more units and inspire people to upgrade?
    Yes, I know where the samples are ... I just cannot download them. I tried with Safari and Opera ... and got the same "Page Not Found".

    It is hard to say what the photographers are after in terms of their pictorial style. But I think I understand what you mean since I had the same reaction to the images used to launch the Leica S2 ... just not my cup of tea. Processing is definitely a "creative" endeavor and will differ greatly from one person to the next.

    Since I am a former D3X user, I can say most any of these MFD kits will be a leap forward in terms of IQ ... and in more ways than just oodles more resolution. I think it just comes down to CCD verses CMOS sensors with their AA filtration ... and the CCD's 16 bit. The tonal gradation and dynamic range is better from those big CCD sensors. Even though it's 35mm, I see that difference even with the CCD sensor in the Leica M9.

    However, what one does with all the extra stuff you get is the subjective/creative part that can please some and not others.

    If you get a moment, check the ISO 800 snap I grabbed of some deer with the H4D/40 yesterday, (maybe you'll like it, maybe you'll hate it ):

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showth...722#post199722

    -Marc

  50. #50
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,587
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H4D 40 @100 ISO 3 minutes plus

    Thanks Marc,
    your shot looks impressive compared to the Hasselblad samples, although these aren't 100% crops so it's hard to say definitively, but I take it as a give in. What shocked me about the samples on the Hassey site is they displayed very soft, over smoothing of details, sharpening artifacts and in many instances CA. yours look very crisp and seem indicative of the systems true stripes. The other hand held shot posted by David (?) in another thread was also miles better in terms of displaying the possible performance and benefits of the H4D40 under challenging light. I'm being pedantic, but I'd expect a brand like Hasselblad, one that has obviously invested tremendously in a sharp, well designed, modern web site, one that sells high end professional, not to mention technologically advanced tools, to post samples that actually illustrate why I'd pay through the nose for their product over another, and not make me scratch my head in confusion. Your pictures and comments give me a far better insight into that logic than all the tech specs, words and flash illustrations on the Hassey web site combined. End of rant...

    Thanks again for posting your impressions. It does indeed look like a winner.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •