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Thread: Phase 80mm LS vs 80mm D lens

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Phase 80mm LS vs 80mm D lens

    I'm having a real issue with this test. I have done 3 formal tests shooting walls and each time the 80mmD smokes it wide open and I mean smokes it and the 80mm LS does not catch up until 5.6 or so. I can post results and all that but I actually think something is off on the CI demo lens and sent a message to Dave to check it when it gets back to there shop. What is really interesting is just some random shots wide open it looks very good indeed but again believe it or not the 80mmD lens is something special and not sure many know how damn good that lens is . In the S2 test it was obvious it nailed everything in sight and equaled or was better than the 70mm S2 lens.

    Now i want to be careful here because i think the LS is a great lens no question about it but I'm not comfortable to call a winner here unless I try another lens out. As someone that does do reviews from time to time, I'm just not feeling it with this test. So with that until I get another lens to test I will leave it alone but wanted everyone to know i did the test but honestly I can't convince myself it is accurate and like always i am full disclosure on this stuff.

    Now here are some random shots ALL wide open here.











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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Phase 80mm LS vs 80mm D lens

    Just FYI all P40+ with pre sharpen 1 which is pretty normal for me. No clarity added here, pretty much straight out files.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Workshop Member Woody Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Phase 80mm LS vs 80mm D lens

    Guy -

    Thanks for the bokeh shots - it frankly looks quite harsh - this is particularly evident on the electrical panel shot.

    Regards,

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Phase 80mm LS vs 80mm D lens

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Campbell View Post
    Guy -

    Thanks for the bokeh shots - it frankly looks quite harsh - this is particularly evident on the electrical panel shot.

    Regards,
    Agreed. And then it makes people look flat out ugly!
    Jack
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    Re: Phase 80mm LS vs 80mm D lens

    Not as smooth as my 150 Woody tend to agree with you here.

    here is a 150 and too me just has a nicer tonal falloff in the DOF area
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Phase 80mm LS vs 80mm D lens

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Agreed. And then it makes people look flat out ugly!
    Sorry bud
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Phase 80mm LS vs 80mm D lens

    End of day I want the 110mm
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Phase 80mm LS vs 80mm D lens

    It did sync to 1/800th wired and wireless. 1/1600 is a factory update
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Phase 80mm LS vs 80mm D lens

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    It did sync to 1/800th wired and wireless. 1/1600 is a factory update
    Hi Guy,

    I know using the 80mm LS is not an issue with the Phase 645DF--how about using the LS lens on the Phase 645AF or Mamiya 645AFD III?? Flash sync? (In otherwords---can the LS lenses be used without issue/limitation on the older bodies?)

    And yes, I know that finding an "ancient" Phase 645AF camera body to use is difficult for a true gear slut...



    ken

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    Re: Phase 80mm LS vs 80mm D lens

    No one had a older body hanging around. All three Phase shooters had DF's on the workshop. How lucky are we. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Phase 80mm LS vs 80mm D lens

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Campbell View Post
    Thanks for the bokeh shots - it frankly looks quite harsh - this is particularly evident on the electrical panel shot.
    I think it is even stronger on the shot of Jack and the other after. The background is incredibly jittery and nervous. That lens has a disappointing look to it in these photos.

    I cannot agree with Jack that it makes people look bad though!

    The 150 shot also has a touch of nervous boke in the top-left corner, but not nearly as bad. I would love to see the Hasselblad 110/2 or 100/2.2 on these shots, to see if they would handle this better. The new 110 is also going to be interesting.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Phase 80mm LS vs 80mm D lens

    Funny that there is no follow up on this thread. I think it is of utmost importance, and I think the whole community would like to hear more abt it. I am in the process of switching my whole system from H to Phase and this really scares me. I really would appreciate to hear more from Guy, but also from other users, aside from Capture Integration and Phase/Schneider themselves.

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    Re: Phase 80mm LS vs 80mm D lens

    I agree like to try another lens just to be sure and hear from the CI folks as well. I know the D lens is a smoking lens no doubt. Like to see more on the LS though. I got some nice images but also failed in a test so want to be careful on rating it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Member Harry's Avatar
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    Re: Phase 80mm LS vs 80mm D lens

    The 80 leaf only goes up to 1 second max in LF mode on the DF body.
    Talked to Stave at CI and he looked into it. If you want more than 1 second exposure you need to be in FS mode.

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    Re: Phase 80mm LS vs 80mm D lens

    Quote Originally Posted by Avelino View Post
    Funny that there is no follow up on this thread. I think it is of utmost importance, and I think the whole community would like to hear more abt it. I am in the process of switching my whole system from H to Phase and this really scares me. I really would appreciate to hear more from Guy, but also from other users, aside from Capture Integration and Phase/Schneider themselves.
    I 2nd that motion... More tests please...

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    Re: Phase 80mm LS vs 80mm D lens

    I've been using the 80 mm LS for three months and love it. But I do not have an 80 D so have not done any comparison tests.

    The lens is a bit soft at the corners wide open, but gets very sharp very quickly. Given that I'm using it for landscape work, it's usually at f11 anyway, and there it is simply perfect from corner to corner.

    (See my recent post in Fun with MF images.)

    Bill

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Phase 80mm LS vs 80mm D lens

    I have had my 80 LS lens on order since December, but not even heard an estimated delivery yet. However, as soon as it arrives, I will certainly do some thorough testing and add the results to this thread.
    Jack
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    Re: Phase 80mm LS vs 80mm D lens

    Ok, I will admit I am back 'in the game' looking for a Contax followon (the body and lenses at this point owe me nothing; written down. )
    So, I know I will keep the Alpa as tech (the 35mm Contax gets sidetracked by the S-K 35mm)
    I know I REALLYYYY want to keep the Hassey V lenses esp the 250 and 350 SA

    Whether I go S2 or P1 (I think the phamyia label is a little tacky, esp If I wind up buyoing it! ) is the question
    if I don't see movement to a hassey V adapter (David, are you listening!!!) then the S2 is Kaput
    The PM 80mm and wider lenses will then be the sports-trekking-PJ ones (btw , whats the P1 28mm equivalent? is the a 45/50?)

    ANYWAY, this could be a pivotal thread for P1 decisions, so please, keep the comments and exaples coming.

    Victor

    PS he boket comments and examples are a bit disturbing-I know exactly what Carsten is saying, and I have not seen in others' P1/M lens examples. almost as if an element is out of alignment.

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    Re: Phase 80mm LS vs 80mm D lens

    Shooting V lenses with Mamiya OR H series is a piece of cake. I woudl say ( from experience) that it is easier on Mamiya via adaptor - but you will get better results on H - because of Phocus lens corrections...

    btw - on fair dinkum testing - The H lenses Smoke the Zeiss lenses in every aspect except...the Zeiss look..which is important to some and not to others..


    and then if you really want the Zeiss look - why compromise and not go the whole hog to Rollie mount - or should I say Schneider..( as an aside the Rollei mount version of the 110/2 is better than the Hasselblad equivalents in F or FE mode - yeah I have all three...the Rollie lenses deliver a much better creamy look sharp exactly where you want it and beautiful graduated fall-off from there - BUT f you want to shoot F/FE then mamiya or Contax is your best bet - because H series CF adaptor cant usethese lenses...shame Hasselblad for no focal plane shutter body shame / shame and shame..-

    if you arent interested in bokeh Schmokeh - well just use H or Mamiya D series lenses for that clinical scrubbed look..

    which brings me to a final point - Victor you like the 250SA - I just ( gladly) traded a new in box ( yes new in box) one on Saturday - it is nothing in comparison to the 300 HC on a H blad with or without the equally now rare extender..

    Victor I ont think you have ever admitted to not making teh absolutely best gear choice in any system you own - truth is they are all pretty mcuh the same..

    I'd switch to P65+ without a moments hesitation because I know I can still use all my F and V mount glass - why do I care? - because this stuff was made to shoot film with - and when I want to shoot stuff that really matters to me - I always use film 0n a 6x6 clunky blad with mirror slap you can hear for miles even - the film doesnt care ..


    P45+ FE100/2
    Last edited by PeterA; 21st March 2010 at 04:35.

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    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: Phase 80mm LS vs 80mm D lens

    "...Victor I ont think you have ever admitted to not making teh absolutely best gear choice in any system you own - truth is they are all pretty mcuh the same..."

    I would hope that EVERYONE, feels the same way; that is, they make the absolute best decision FOR THEM! or they change.

    It is Sunday here, so maybe I stand up and 'confess';

    I have the Kodak SLR/c (Yikes, thought I would use with R lenses)
    Truewide for R; more vignetting than P45+ that I tested on (forgot to ACTUALLY measure the image circle!
    Sigma 14 with R mount (boat anchor, or museum piece. Sving for a rainy day...then I will leave it OUTSIDE )

    I would like to know what "Smoke 'em" means . Resolution? color accuracy, low distortion.

    Jacqueline was considered a beauty, but each facial feature was 'wrong' to some
    Records are 'noisy', but original RCA shaded dog just sound more musical than CDs (even the 24 bits)

    Chaqune a son gout. It is exactly the Leica 'look' and the Zeiss that I prefer.

    Once you learn a preference well....

    Yes I have made comments AFTER a thread has presented evidence;

    Someones post of Mamyia /Phase vs Leica to show MF supperiority? to my eye the leica was more 3d and 'interesting' (but, I will admit only a postyed jpg

    I piped in AFTER Tim had questioned some lens performance.

    I apologize if that offended some, the Contax comment was OBVIOUSLY TIC.

    The reason for this long respoinse should be clear; decisions are made on complex criteria, and are highly personal. My finding my gear 'best' well, fool am I if that isn't true!

    warm regards
    Victor

    PS: I actually believe YOU feel the same way aboyut your gear... or you change it. Good for you.

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    Re: Phase 80mm LS vs 80mm D lens

    Victor - I was (only ) sayin..you have the P65+ - just add one of the Mamiya bodies as you change mount to mamiya from Contax and you are all set to go already. You keep all your favourite glass and you can add the mamiya D series stuff if it pleases you to do so.

    No Problemo.

    Pete

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    Re: Phase 80mm LS vs 80mm D lens

    Just as an aside, Peter, I find it interesting you prefer the Rollei mount 110/2 to the Hasselblad 110/2 FE...I also have both but feel the opposite! I find that the specular highlights from the Rollei version aren't as nice -- they render as pentagons instead of more rounded liked the FE version. Other than that I have not noticed any real difference...except that the hassie version weighs half and goes to 1/2000th...and is more prone to getting stuck aperture blades.

    Anyway, how do you guys feel about the bokeh in these photos?






    They were with the 80mm f/2.8 Xenotar AF. If the phase LS lenses are made by Schneider, I would be surprised if the optical formulas were very different (or at all different).
    My photos are here: http://www.stuartrichardson.com and more recent work here: http://stuartrichardson.tumblr.com/ Please have a look at my book!
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    Re: Phase 80mm LS vs 80mm D lens

    Hi Stuart. I guess it all depends on how these things are used..within the context of pretty special glass I prefer the rollie mount ( at the margin) for its better moving out of foucs rendition, however I have not noted the specular highlight comparison - because I use these things typically in absence of same.

    My FE fell apart internally so I can vouch for their delicate nature - now fixed by Hasselblad. For sure ergonmics in hand held situations speak volumes against the Hy6 and 110 Zeiss - it is fat and heavy. thats why I do prefer a 200/500 series body.

    as an aside - Leica makes a ton of glass with same or better outcomes - the M9 is a game changer for me haven't had so much fun with a camera - since....I bought my first M8 - and now no crop factor .

    I am thinking radical thoughts re my commitment to MF....

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    Re: Phase 80mm LS vs 80mm D lens

    Yes, I certainly agree with you there! After I got the M9, my thoughts of rejoining medium format digital disappeared. MF film is still what I like best, but the M9 is so good, so portable, and the lenses are just more usable overall (there are boatloads of them made over 80 years, from 12mm to 135mm and f/0.95 with a bunch of 1.4 lenses in many focal lengths...). I am not saying I would turn down a P65+! Far from it, but the cost/benefit is no longer working for me. I completely understand why people go for them though. They do have resolution, color and dynamic range that is beyond amazing. Resolution is just one component in a final print, and the M9 does everything else so well that you can print huge from it and still maintain amazing quality -- low distortion, edge to edge sharpness and less critical depth of field concerns compared to medium format go a long way in making a nice large print. At the end of the day it is very important to think about what your output is -- what kind of resolution do you actually need. More is not always better, though I will readily admit that it often is!

    But sorry to take this thread off track. I did a bit more research, and the 80mm LS is a 6 element 5 group design, while the Xenotar AF is a 7 element 6 group design, so they are different optical designs. But they should have a familial resemblance...
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