Hasselblad Factory Tour

[tetsrfun]

A Chinese photographer posted his impressions and pictures of a tour of Hasselblad facilities. His English translation is quite good and enjoyable to read. Some interesting pictures of the "guts" of "H" bodies. I also thought it was interesting that he said there still is a "V" system production line.

http://www.digiback.net/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=214&extra=page=1

Steve

 

[carstenw]

His comments about the P65+ using a "stock" version of the Dalsa sensor, whereas the H4D-60 will be using a version tuned for less noise (?) were interesting. I will be waiting for the results.

 

[Dale Allyn]

I thought that the P65+ (and P40+) Dalsa sensors contained Phase One proprietary design elements (i.e. Phase One + Dalsa collaboration on some details). (?) I expect that we'll see/hear some "feedback" regarding the comment.

 

[jerome]

His comments about the P65+ using a "stock" version of the Dalsa sensor, whereas the H4D-60 will be using a version tuned for less noise (?) were interesting. I will be waiting for the results.

Yes, we learn that P1 has no long exposure, because a noise problem in shadows ... so, it's a specific version of the chips here ...

We want more informations lol

 

[tokengirl]

His comments about the P65+ using a "stock" version of the Dalsa sensor, whereas the H4D-60 will be using a version tuned for less noise (?) were interesting. I will be waiting for the results.

Better fire up the machine for this one...

 

[tetsrfun]

Better fire up the machine for this one...

There was a rather "contentious" response to the linked post that was shortly there-after removed by "edit". IMO, good decision as I thought the "tone" reflected poorly on the person and the business that he represents. So, don't plug in the machine quite yet.

I thought the most "cutting" observation by the Chinese photographer was his comments about the Hasselblad optical/lens testing equipment and then saying "reviewers" give lens evaluations based on shooting a test chart.

 

[thomas]

His comments about the P65+ using a "stock" version of the Dalsa sensor, whereas the H4D-60 will be using a version tuned for less noise (?) were interesting.

the sensors used in the P65+/P40+ are licensed exclusively to Phase One ("Sensor Plus"). So they are certainly not "stock" sensors... I think Hasselblad is just trying to create a selling point.

 

[dougpeterson]

Kinda hard to hold my tongue so I'll stick with:
1) show me shadow noise from a 65+ raw file (which started shipping in December of 2008 and in quantity in early 2009)
2) show me a raw file from the Hassy 60 megapixel camera first announced October 2008 to ship in April 2009 - AFAIK still not shipping (please correct me if wrong)

Long exposures are a weak spot of the 65+. But aside from long exposures it has higher image quality than anything I've ever shot.

The P65+ is also the only back I would feel comfortable using ISO 1600 for a commercial application (in Sensor+ mode).

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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[Jeffg53]

I'm having a little trouble with the last post. If I read it correctly, Doug is saying that a P65 + is better than a camera that none of us has seen, with some irrelevant date info thrown in for obfuscation.

I thought that we had moved on, but apparently not.

 

[thomas]

If I read it correctly, Doug is saying that a P65 + is better than a camera that none of us has seen

no, that's not what he is saying. He is not refering to the H4D60... he's just refering to the talk about noise in the 60 MP Dalsa sensor.

 

[Jeffg53]

well, why mention the H4D and ship dates?

 

[ptomsu]

I understand that Hasselblad is further optimizing the Dalsa 60MP chip for their H4D60. That can be perfectly true and would make lot of sense.

While Phase jumped on the first iteration of this great chip and produced a great (actually market leading) P65+, Hasselblad is going to improve this chip together with Dalsa in order to get the extra difference compared to Phase. Nothing wrong with that if this is true.

And nothing would stop Phase to push further Dalsa 60MP development their own road - right?

It is always about competition - nothing else folks!

 

[tjv]

I understand that Hasselblad is further optimizing the Dalsa 60MP chip for their own road - right?

It is always about competition - nothing else folks!

Of course you are correct, but it sometimes gets tiresome reading forum based sales pitches, thinly disguised as advise, posted by dealers . Not pointing the finger at anyone in particular here but it's a big reason I don't read many MF camera forums on the net. It's no different to trawling through fanatical user posts where the posters can't see past their own noses and need to justify why their gear is the best. (The Hasselblad factory tour link is arguably in the mold, although translation could be effecting this interpretation.)

On the other hand, debate can be very healthy and misinformation needs to be corrected by facts... :lecture::deadhorse::talk028::wtf:

 

[Jeffg53]

Exactly, what I was getting at. This thread is about someone going to the Hasselblad factory but then becomes a ' mine's bigger than yours' hijack. I'm tempted to suggest that Steve Hendrix has gone away for the weekend and left the gate open and the dog has got out but that would be very rude, so I won't.

 

[tetsrfun]

Exactly, what I was getting at. This thread is about someone going to the Hasselblad factory but then becomes
********
That is why I posted the link...I though the Chinese visitor had a interesting perspective and the photos of the camera "bit's" were interesting. But you are correct, some sales reps, fan boys, etc. are like bull dogs protecting their small patch of dirt...it does get tiresome.

Steve

 

[dougpeterson]

I'm having a little trouble with the last post. If I read it correctly, Doug is saying that a P65 + is better than a camera that none of us has seen, with some irrelevant date info thrown in for obfuscation.

I was reading two forums at the same time and responded here to a post on luminous.

This is the post I was responding to (from LL):

The Dalsa 60MP chips do suffering a big shadow noise problem but only Hasselblad explicit mentioned and able to solve it.

Hopefully now that you know what I was replying TO it makes more sense.

I read a statement that says (paraphrasing) "the 65+ has big shadow noise issues but the H4D-60 doesn't" my response was (paraphrasing) "show me the big shadow noise issue in the P65+ and show me a raw file from the H4D-60". Mentioning ship dates was trite and inappropriate.

Reading through his super long post on digiback.net it seems he meant this "shadow noise" in regard to long exposures - in which case he would be 100% right (actually on exposures past a minute there is more than just "shadow noise" the entire image falls apart! lol). If Hasselblad is able to get a significantly longer exposures out of the DALSA 60 megapixel chip that would be a great service to photographers.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
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[dougpeterson]

So anyway to bring the thread back on topic... (sorry for the diversion)

I thought getting to see the H lens components was awesome.

Thank god there are people in the world smart enough to not only understand what each of those components does, but to actually invent and create it!

(I wanted to post a link to the post with that specific photo in it's original location, but I can't understand the chinese on that forum on how to directly link to a particular pot)

 

[dougpeterson]

"In addition, Phocus 2.0 do have the DAC profile for F Lens!" <-- cool, didn't know that

 

[Jeffg53]

Thanks for the clarification, Doug. You must get dizzy going from a biased atmosphere to a more neutral one here. I have abandoned LL for MF, too much BS.

I hope Hasselblad can get the 60 out to at least a minute, but, if they can't, the 40 is a great fallback for me.

 

[tetsrfun]

"In addition, Phocus 2.0 do have the DAC profile for F Lens!" <-- cool, didn't know that

13 F lens corrections are listed. I use the 110 f/2, 50 f/2.8 and 250 f/4 and they all seem to work.

Steve