I took the plunge, I purchased a H3D-39

[fotografz]

My .02 on the crop factor, offered FWIW...

1) It is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, you have true "full frame" capture, which gives you the widest capture possible with any given lens. However, with the crop, you are using the sweetest spot of the lens, so have better corner-to-corner sharpness, and actually get a little longer net focal out of your lenses which can be as beneficial as getting wider...

1a) While we're discussing crop, IMO even a 30MP image is still a pretty great file to work with!

2) Speed. The new 40's are faster than the 39's, but the new 60's are about half-way between.

3) Not really relevant to the discussion, but: You can crop a 60 to the 40 and maintain all of the IQ and perspective advantages of the 40, while maintaining the size advantage to the 60. Also, you only give up a little speed to the 40, especially with Phase in the binned mode.

FWIW, #3 is one of the three main reasons why I chose the P65+...

I doubt anyone could dispute any of the above Jack. Same logic process I went through when initially ordering the H4D/60 over 5 months ago ... however, there still is no Hassey 60 camera :wtf:

In that 5 months business got worse not better ... so sinking 20K into the next step seemed a bit crazy (besides, I spent all my war chest funds on M stuff, speaking of crazy :ROTFL Now I can do the work I am getting paid for ... and wait to see what happens. What quality level the H4D/60 really is, and how it actually stacks up against the 50 Multishot, etc.

I've seen some ISO 1600 stuff from the H4D/40 and it's a leap forward from the H3D-II/31 which wasn't bad itself. For my type of shooting that will help ... and it's still 40 meg

The other thought I had was to take some of the proceeds from the H3D-II/39 sale and get a cheap H3D/39 ... which has the same trade value toward a 60 as my pristine H3D-II/39 with only 3000 shots on it! I'd be ahead by about $6K doing it that way.

-Marc

 

[jlm]

marc:

do you have the 40 in your hot little hands yet?

 

[fotografz]

marc:

do you have the 40 in your hot little hands yet?

End of this week ... early next week. Will post impressions when in hand.

-Marc

 

[Jack]

so sinking 20K into the next step seemed a bit crazy

Indeed --- cost is a non-trivial part of the equation! If I had taken any longer to "think about it" carefully, I'm pretty sure I'd still be shooting my P45+ :ROTFL:

 

[ptomsu]

Justifying a 60MP cam today is pretty difficult business wise. If you can justify it for your passion or hobby etc, then it is of course ok.

One of the reasons I bought the H3D39 was its cheap price (CPO - Hasselblad - actually it had some 20 shots not more, so it was NEW) and the great trade in price for an H4D50, H4D60 and H4D40. So I can decide still a few months if I want to upgrade.

Interestingly enough I am so happy with the files and the resolution I already get from the H3D39, that it is pretty unlikely that I will sink some more money into this adventure. I do not need more than 40MP on FF. I would not mind a camera which is a bit faster, but for this merit alone I will not spend a few thousand € or $

So finally the H3D39 was a perfect choice for me!

 

[fotografz]

Justifying a 60MP cam today is pretty difficult business wise. If you can justify it for your passion or hobby etc, then it is of course ok.

One of the reasons I bought the H3D39 was its cheap price (CPO - Hasselblad - actually it had some 20 shots not more, so it was NEW) and the great trade in price for an H4D50, H4D60 and H4D40. So I can decide still a few months if I want to upgrade.

Interestingly enough I am so happy with the files and the resolution I already get from the H3D39, that it is pretty unlikely that I will sink some more money into this adventure. I do not need more than 40MP on FF. I would not mind a camera which is a bit faster, but for this merit alone I will not spend a few thousand € or $

So finally the H3D39 was a perfect choice for me!

I think justifications vary widely. If I were primarily a landscape shooter with some portrait stuff thrown in, I'd concentrate all resources into a MFD 60 meg for the unquestioned advantages it provides. If I were not a Leica M shooter with an obsession for their fastest lenses, I could buy any complete MFD system on the planet

I'm not solely a Hasselblad "fanboy" at this stage of the game either. The fan boy part is mostly focused on the camera itself which I prefer. So, a Phase One back in H mount is of no small interest for use on a H2. The primary interest in this would be additional use on my Rollei View camera which is already set up for a H mount back of any kind. A Phase One P45+ is a real consideration as it is an easier option for location work with this camera due to the integrated self power. Same for a Leaf Aptus 75s back, which I've used and like any way.

However, without paying commissions to justify the Rollie and any back for it ... it's a moot point. I'm much more practical about MFD considerations than I am about the seemingly unjustifiable expenditures in the M system where logic is suspended and replaced with personal passion for the rangefinder way of making photographs :ROTFL:

10 years ago I would do both without even thinking about it. But that was then, and this now.

 

[jlm]

to clarify about Hasselblad trade-ins, based on the Hasselblad Trade-in Program dated September 25, 2009:


in each case, trading in your 16, 22, 31 or 39 back/body (no lens), H or V:
and getting the following camerabody/back with no lens:

H4d-40: NO TRADE IN ALLOWED, retail is 20k, lens included

H4D-50: 19,500 net (retail is 29k, no lens) TIV is 9.5k
H4D-50MS: 21,000 net (retail is 36k, no lens) TIV is 15k

here they differentiate based on the mpix of your trade in:
H4D-60: 24,000 net (retail is 40k, no lens) TIV is 16k, trading in 16-22/31mpx
H4D-60: 19,500 net (retail is 40k, no lens) TIV is 20.5k, trading in 39mpx
H4D-60: 18,000 net (retail is 40k, no lens) TIV is 22kk, trading in 50mpx

this shows quite a range of TIV for the H3D-39: 9.5K-22k

Hasselblad is also offering a promotion for the H3DII-31 (not the 39) for 12k with lens; you could actually make 4k by buying that and trading it in for the H4D-60 wacky

 

[johnnygoesdigital]

I bought the H3DII-31, w/ 80mm and watched the price drop $3000 to its current promotion, in just three weeks! It toasted my muffin because I sold all my 1Ds mark II gear and that camera didn't drop that much in value in three years! The main reason I switched was because of the obsolescence inherit in the 35mm format. Although, after a call to my dealer, he quickly called Hasselblad and they offered a full purchase price towards the H4D-40. Not bad, but I still can't decide whether the same sensor size, but smaller pixel pitch (6.0) and microlenses will be a noticeable difference. I have read good things about the better ISO performance and that does make a difference when shooting handheld landscapes in windy conditions. Other improvements such as true focus and longer exposures are tempting too. The dealer/customer relationship is important and their relationship to Hasselblad is even more important. I wonder if the H4D-40 will also drop in price soon?

 

[docmoore]

I bought the H3DII-31,

I wonder if the H4D-40 will also drop in price soon?

Soon, while a relative term, in the MFDB realm holds a bit more significance for most of us.

Price drop guaranteed....though your H3DII-31 has not seen bottom yet.

Find a size you like and use it ... these are no longer investments but more like fungible items that should be used and exchanged as needed. When as Marc has pointed out a H3DII-39 with a couple K exposures is equal in value to a H3D 39 with 100K exposures in trade value, the idea that these acquisitions are investment grade has lost significance.

The H4D-40 should outperform the H3DII-31 but whether it is worth the additional outlay is something you will have to decide.

Bob

 

[jlm]

just realized my calcs were off for the Hd3II-31 trade in for the 60. you also get an 80mm lens out of the deal, making the gain almost 6k

 

[fotografz]

I bought the H3DII-31, w/ 80mm and watched the price drop $3000 to its current promotion, in just three weeks! It toasted my muffin because I sold all my 1Ds mark II gear and that camera didn't drop that much in value in three years! The main reason I switched was because of the obsolescence inherit in the 35mm format. Although, after a call to my dealer, he quickly called Hasselblad and they offered a full purchase price towards the H4D-40. Not bad, but I still can't decide whether the same sensor size, but smaller pixel pitch (6.0) and microlenses will be a noticeable difference. I have read good things about the better ISO performance and that does make a difference when shooting handheld landscapes in windy conditions. Other improvements such as true focus and longer exposures are tempting too. The dealer/customer relationship is important and their relationship to Hasselblad is even more important. I wonder if the H4D-40 will also drop in price soon?

Not unusual to discount remaining inventory of a previous model that has been superseded and discontinued. The Canon 1DsMKIV hasn't even been announced or previewed and the 1DsMKIII has dropped in price to a bit over $6K from $8K.

The 31 has been around for a while, and was at the end of its product cycle. Doesn't make it a lesser camera.

If the 31 was what you needed then it should serve the same function. That said, bad timing always irks, at least on paper. I wasn't pleased that the 39s were all lumped together and turned into a commodity.

As to discounting the H4D/40 ... I'm not sure that'll happen, this time they set the price lower going in. But you never know what market conditions will dictate.

BTW, Hasslblad has always run special promos in past ... especially for existing customers. $% off lenses and stuff like that.

-Marc

 

[johnnygoesdigital]

Marc,

Your comments are appreciated. Based on serial numbers, do you know how to identify the year of a 31II's production? I ask because as you pointed out the 31 has been around, so just curious as to how new my "new" cameras is. Also, most photographer's will look for the best deal they can get on MF gear, but I had a dealer (FC), call Hasselblad to complain about the deal I got from another. I'm curious why they didn't offer the same deal? Customer loyalty/satisfaction is in my opinion, half of the sale.

 

[fotografz]

just realized my calcs were off for the Hd3II-31 trade in for the 60. you also get an 80mm lens out of the deal, making the gain almost 6k

I don't think that is correct. The way the trade promotion was structured, you trade-in your camera without lens + cash, and get the new camera without lens.

You don't get a new lens out of it.

 

[PeterA]

I just upgraded my kit.

 

[fotografz]

Marc,

Your comments are appreciated. Based on serial numbers, do you know how to identify the year of a 31II's production? I ask because as you pointed out the 31 has been around, so just curious as to how new my "new" cameras is. Also, most photographer's will look for the best deal they can get on MF gear, but I had a dealer (FC), call Hasselblad to complain about the deal I got from another. I'm curious why they didn't offer the same deal? Customer loyalty/satisfaction is in my opinion, half of the sale.

I wouldn't worry about serial number and when produced. If it is a H3D-II it can't be that old anyway. The best indicator is amount of shots on the camera and the lens, which can be checked in the grip menu under "System Status".

If the H3D-II/31 camera is new and came right from Hasselbald to the dealer and then to you, then the count should be very, very low presuming Hasselblad tests each camera. If it was a dealer demo, there will be some shots on it ... and usually a demo unit will be discounted, but often includes the standard manufacture's 1 year warranty. Hasselblad also sells Certified Pre-Owned which are often regional rep demos, with a 6 month warranty. The last CPO PDF I got in Feb. listed a H3D-II/31 @ $14,495. which of course was trumped by their own recent inventory clearing price promotion for brand new H3D-II/31s as they made way for the H4D/40.

As to the dealer comment, hard to tell why one was selling lower/higher than the other. It's usually pretty consistent dealer to dealer, but I'd guess there is wiggle room for a dealer to offer a bit better deal if they wish to take a hit in profits themselves. Choice of dealer is the variable in any of these MFD transactions. Personal service and treatment, support, access/availability, etc. are the chief attributes to evaluate when selecting a dealer ... not just price.

-Marc

 

[fotografz]

I just upgraded my kit.

To what? Do tell Peter!

-Marc

 

[PeterA]

Marc - A 503CW courtesy of B&H - had to do justice to your 40/80/150 and 180 CFi's and CFE's...not to mention my CFE 120 ...

makes me smile using this stuff - I will compare the CFV11 to my Sinar75LV when V adaptor arrives..

 

[PeterA]

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=9280&c=5

A little snap this afternoon the CFV11 back punches way above its weight and Phocus 2 is fantastic

 

[fotografz]

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=9280&c=5

A little snap this afternoon the CFV11 back punches way above its weight and Phocus 2 is fantastic

That it does Peter, that it does! Nice serene shot, makes me feel good just looking at it.

Hardest part of trimming the gear closet was letting all that go so I could focus on AF for my work (pun intended : -), and the M9 kit now that they got the camera right.

We'll see if it was all worth it when I get my mitts on the H4D/40.

-Marc

 

[jlm]

marc:

i was comparing buying the Hd3II-31, with lens, for 12k and keeping that lens, then trading in the body/back, as you noted, for the Hd4-60, body/back. net cash outlay is 12k + 19.5k =31.5, compared to the 42k retail for the H4d-60 with lens