Let's talk software

[Graham Mitchell]

Right now, at least, eXposure is so crippled in Leopard that it does not matter.

You might be being very unfair to Sinar. I am running Exposure on Leopard (10.5.2) and haven't had any problems except for one small bug which is easily worked around. It's running just fine.

The DNG from Brumbaer is readable by all other software, including Lightroom, ACR, C1, and Aperture. So, if eXposure cannot read it, one would have to wonder why.

Does Exposure read any DNG files at all apart from its own? I haven't tried. It is not designed to be a general purpose raw developer, afaik, so it probably looks at the metadata first. Just my guess.

 

[fotografz]

Here's a little tip for Leaf Tethered Shooters:

Open Leaf Capture, select the "preview current shot" display window ... but close the browser window.

Make a desktop file destination, open PSCS3 and select that file folder, and use Bridge as your Leaf Browser.

It's fast, and allows you to open a select file right in ACR for inspection/correction ... even batch sets of shots, which beats the hell out of the corrections available in Leaf Capture ... especially exposure controls. ACR directly supports, and is extremely friendly to, Leaf CMOS files.

 

[thsinar]

Sinar eXposure:

Tethered or un-tethered, eXposure writes DNG files which can be read by all usual applications supporting the DNG format (LR, ACR, Raw Developer, Aperture, C1 etc...).

At the same time, and from eXposure, you can currently export TIF and JPG files.

Cannot be more simple, IMO.

Best regards,
Thierry

I am trying to sort my way around all the systems and what software doe's what . I know there are some missing pieces here i am trying to figure out.
Sinar. Okay I am lost here

 

[fotografz]

UNTETHERED:

- Shoot images untethered
- Connect back to a Mac running Exposure
- Import selected or all images to a local directory
- Images are now saved as DNG files in that directory
- Use Exposure or raw developer of choice to export TIFFs

TETHERED:

- Connect back to Mac running Exposure
- Images will be saved as DNG files in selected directory
- Use Exposure or raw developer of choice to export TIFFs

I choose to develop a linear 16 bit file from Exposure and apply a curve layer and any other changes in Photoshop. YMMV.

Could you provide a little more detail Graham?

Specifically, what does the tethered work flow look like ... I work with two 30" monitors side-by-side ... browser on one window, full screen preview of the current shot on the other. This allows me to be at the camera and see what I'm getting from a distance. As I shoot, the browser fills up and the last shot appears quickly in the preview window. Is it the same with the Sinar software?

Help me understand the file quality ... the back captures to a propritary file format, but that is translated into a DNG file format behind the scenes ... so you never get the original file format? Is the transfer to DNG something that slows down tethered speed?

Also, read my post where I provide a tip to Leaf users ... I wonder if a work flow like that could be used with a Sinar back? Basically, you'd shoot to a desk top file destination, open that file folder in Bridge and use PSCS3 Bridge as the tethered Browser ... so all you'd need is a large preview window of the current shot.

 

[thsinar]

David,

eXposure is absolutely stable with Leopard, from what I have heard from the feedback of users and from my own use experience. Yes, it does have some bugs, like all SW, but those are already fixed and integrated in the next version which will be released in a couple of weeks.

But yes, the Brumbaer tools are also an alternative for a workflow which was essentially meant for architecture users.

Best regards,
Thierry

The eXposure software still has some quirks on Leopard. An alternative workflow that works now without a hitch is to use the software from Stephen Brumbaer (also Mac only). Basically, you can select/reject images from his reader tool and copy them onto your desktop. You can then drag and drop directories of images into his DNG converter, which will automatically batch convert the images to DNG format, and it is smart enough to use the latest white balance reference contained in the directory.

 

[thsinar]

Not YET!

All DNG files will be readable and it is on our priority list.

Thierry

Except, a DNG created by Brumbaer is not visible by eXposure.

 

[fotografz]

Sinar eXposure:

Tethered or un-tethered, eXposure writes DNG files which can be read by all usual applications supporting the DNG format (LR, ACR, Raw Developer, Aperture, etc...).

At the same time, and from eXposure, you can currently export TIF and JPG files.

Cannot be more simple, IMO.

Best regards,
Thierry

I think that is understood, but how is the tethered work flow as you are shooting? LR, ACR, etc, don't provide automatic large previews. I don't want to have to open a shot to preview it full resolution after each shot. How does the Sinar software provide an instant preview as you shoot?

BTW, thanks for your patience and all the info.

 

[thsinar]

NOT TRUE, David.

As long as the folder structure is kept as it was in the internal memory, respectively in the CF card, you can put/save your eMotion files on the desktop in a folder. Thereafter you can just select this folder in eXposure, the content will be displayed, you can select them in the contact sheet and drag them in any folder of your choice in the browser to store/save them as DNG files.

One little thing to do: when dragging the files, press the "SHIFT" key at the same time!

Best regards,
Thierry

This is correct if you shoot untethered without a CF card.

If you choose to shoot to a CF card, then you do not need to connect the back to a computer. BUT, you must import the images from the CF card with eXposure via a CF card reader. If you copy the contents of the CF card to the desktop first, eXposure will not be able to read it from there. This is a very annoying behavior, which was present even with the older CaptureShop software from Sinar.

 

[thsinar]

the DNG from eXposure is readable from all other software, including LR, ACR, C1, Aperture, Camera Raw, etc ...

What do you mean with "crippled"? Could you emphasize?

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry

Right now, at least, eXposure is so crippled in Leopard that it does not matter.

The DNG from Brumbaer is readable by all other software, including Lightroom, ACR, C1, and Aperture. So, if eXposure cannot read it, one would have to wonder why.

 

[Graham Mitchell]

As I shoot, the browser fills up and the last shot appears quickly in the preview window. Is it the same with the Sinar software?

Yes. I can't comment on the 2 monitor setup though. I don't have two monitors to try it with.

Help me understand the file quality ... the back captures to a propritary file format, but that is translated into a DNG file format behind the scenes ... so you never get the original file format? Is the transfer to DNG something that slows down tethered speed?

This is a technical curiosity and not really an issue. The speed seems fine and I can't say whether the data is altered in any way or just 'repackaged'. What matters is the end result.

Also, read my post where I provide a tip to Leaf users ... I wonder if a work flow like that could be used with a Sinar back?

It isn't necessary. I think Exposure does all you need.

 

[fotografz]

Yes. I can't comment on the 2 monitor setup though. I don't have two monitors to try it with.

This is a technical curiosity and not really an issue. The speed seems fine and I can't say whether the data is altered in any way or just 'repackaged'. What matters is the end result.

It isn't necessary. I think Exposure does all you need.

Thanks.

Capture speed is often very important in the studio, which is why I asked if conversion to DNG at the software stage slows down the high res preview.

For awhile Hasselbald used DNG right from the camera (H2D/22) but had to abandon it when introducing the 39 meg version because it slowed everything down. Sinar appears to make the conversion at the software stage where computing power is far greater depending on how it's configured I guess ... but it still has to do a conversion. Maybe it's just the same and all software has to generate a preview. The previous Flexcolor previews were horrible because they were generated from small files. Phocus has fixed that completely and it's still very fast.

From experiences to date, I'm not completely sold on DNGs as the primary RAW format, nor on any of the 3rd party solutions like LR and PSCS3 as the primary software ... but I suppose it depends on how custom tailored the Sinar DNG conversion is.

Can someone FTP a Sinar DNG file to me ... pretty please?

[email protected]

 

[David Klepacki]

the DNG from eXposure is readable from all other software, including LR, ACR, C1, Aperture, Camera Raw, etc ...

What do you mean with "crippled"? Could you emphasize?

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry

Thierry,

I did not say that the DNG from eXposure is not readable from all other softeware. BJNY reported that the DNG from Brumbaer was readable by all other software, but not eXposure. Please read above posts carefully.

By crippled, I mean that eXposure is not robust on my 4GB Macbook pro running the latest version of Leopard. It just is not working correctly, and on my system it cannot even zoom the thumbnails to 100%.

 

[David Klepacki]

NOT TRUE, David.

As long as the folder structure is kept as it was in the internal memory, respectively in the CF card, you can put/save your eMotion files on the desktop in a folder. Thereafter you can just select this folder in eXposure, the content will be displayed, you can select them in the contact sheet and drag them in any folder of your choice in the browser to store/save them as DNG files.

One little thing to do: when dragging the files, press the "SHIFT" key at the same time!

Best regards,
Thierry

It is true on my system (brand new vanilla 4GB Macbook Pro running latest Leopard version). I copied the folder structure EXACTLY onto the desktop. When selected, eXposure does not even show me a contact sheet and indicates zero images. However, when selecting the IDENTICAL directory on the CF card, it does recognize the images and show me acontact sheet.....but then, none of the images can be zoomed.

First, I love the Sinar back and really do not need eXposure. The eXposure software is just not as robust as the other software. I never have/had any such problems with Phase C1, Adobe Lightroom/ACR, Leaf Capture, nor Hasselblad Flexcolor.

 

[David Klepacki]

You might be being very unfair to Sinar. I am running Exposure on Leopard (10.5.2) and haven't had any problems except for one small bug which is easily worked around. It's running just fine.

Graham, maybe I am harsh but not unfair. I have worked with all of the other vendor software, Flexcolor, C1, Leaf Capture, Adobe stuff, etc. They all had some issues, but none have been as bad as with eXposure for me.

Please try the following:

1. Make sure both Captureshop and eXposure are installed on your machine.
2. Format CF card in Sinarback, and shoot only to CF card (no use of internal memory)
3. Put the CF card into a CF card reader and copy EXACTLY the contents of the CF card to your desktop.
4. Open eXposure and point to folder on desktop and make sure you can manipulate all images (like zooming, cropping , etc.) ... and process the images to something like tif or jpg.
5. Now take the card out of the reader, and put it back into the Sinarback
6. Reformat card in Sinarback, and again shoot only to CF card as before.
7. Again, put the CF card into your card reader and copy EXACTLY the contents of the CF card to your desktop, WITHOUT adding to the existing directory that you created in step 3 above.
8. Again, process this new directory of images like before.
9. Now, try to go back and re-work the images in the first directory from the first shoot.

Please let me know how you do. Thanks.

 

[thsinar]

As an information, David:

Although generating DNGs, the original (and absolute) raws from the back are at your disposal any time, thus the ".IA" and ".BR" files.

Thierry

Thanks.

From experiences to date, I'm not completely sold on DNGs as the primary RAW format, nor on any of the 3rd party solutions like LR and PSCS3 as the primary software ... but I suppose it depends on how custom tailored the Sinar DNG conversion is.

Can someone FTP a Sinar DNG file to me ... pretty please?

[email protected]

 

[thsinar]

Sorry David!

I did not misread, but mistype: I wanted to add that this possibility of eXposure will be implemented very soon.

It is quite strange that it is behaving in a "crippled" way on your Mac: may be a trashing of the old Captureshop preferences can solve the issue.

You should be able to zoom-in without any problem.

Could you report more precisely when speaking about "robust"? Does it crash?

Your feedback would help.

Thanks Thierry

Thierry,

I did not say that the DNG from eXposure is not readable from all other softeware. BJNY reported that the DNG from Brumbaer was readable by all other software, but not eXposure. Please read above posts carefully.

By crippled, I mean that eXposure is not robust on my 4GB Macbook pro running the latest version of Leopard. It just is not working correctly, and on my system it cannot even zoom the thumbnails to 100%.

 

[thsinar]

This is a strange thing:

Are you sure that there is no single file missing from all the files you have on your CF or internal memory?

I would like to investigate this in detail and report: please by by trashing all the Captureshop preferences.

Thanks,
Thierry

It is true on my system (brand new vanilla 4GB Macbook Pro running latest Leopard version). I copied the folder structure EXACTLY onto the desktop. When selected, eXposure does not even show me a contact sheet and indicates zero images.

 

[Graham Mitchell]

Graham, maybe I am harsh but not unfair. I have worked with all of the other vendor software, Flexcolor, C1, Leaf Capture, Adobe stuff, etc. They all had some issues, but none have been as bad as with eXposure for me.

Please try the following:

1. Make sure both Captureshop and eXposure are installed on your machine.
2. Format CF card in Sinarback, and shoot only to CF card (no use of internal memory)
3. Put the CF card into a CF card reader and copy EXACTLY the contents of the CF card to your desktop.
4. Open eXposure and point to folder on desktop and make sure you can manipulate all images (like zooming, cropping , etc.) ... and process the images to something like tif or jpg.
5. Now take the card out of the reader, and put it back into the Sinarback
6. Reformat card in Sinarback, and again shoot only to CF card as before.
7. Again, put the CF card into your card reader and copy EXACTLY the contents of the CF card to your desktop, WITHOUT adding to the existing directory that you created in step 3 above.
8. Again, process this new directory of images like before.
9. Now, try to go back and re-work the images in the first directory from the first shoot.

Please let me know how you do. Thanks.

Hi David, when I say you are being unfair I mean that you are reviewing a product based on one corrupted installation. It is not a problem with the software per se, or it would not work for anyone and clearly most users are having no problems. Your problem might be fixed with a complete uninstallation and then a new installation.

As for the test, I am very busy until the weekend at least and won't have time. If you still have this problem and need me to test it next week, please PM me then.

 

[David Klepacki]

Thierry and Graham,

OK, I will do clean re-installs of everything and report back.

 

[thsinar]

David,

I have to apologize because I did a mistake yesterday in my explanation/claim.

You HAVE TO import the ".IA" & ".BR" files via CF card or via the internal back memory.

It is NOT YET possible to copy them into a folder on your HD and then read them via eXposure directly. You can copy them again on a CF card, then read them with a CF card reader and import/save them as DNGs in eXposure.

Sorry for my misunderstanding and wrong information.

Best regards,
Thierry

Thierry and Graham,

OK, I will do clean re-installs of everything and report back.