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Demo S2 at Kurland Photo(ebay)

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Just another temptation. Kurland is next to the Leica Gallery in NYC and often gets Leica demo equipment . Its $22,995 with the 70mm lens and a one year warranty thru Leica. :D Just stirring up trouble again.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
It's probably the one Mancuso dropped...

(kidding) :ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:
 

PeterA

Well-known member
It is a such a shame to see a company make a dud out of an interesting piece of equipment - purely on the back of silly pricing. All the MF companies are getting slowly strangled by their own business models.

Leica had a great opportunity to present a compelling and differentiated value porposition - supported by some reference to repsect for people's money - sadly they have taken a leaf out of other companies models - and this will underwrite a disastrous outcome for them.

Down here their 'dealers' are asking astronmical money for the system thinking that they will sell none anyway - so very sad.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
I am a Leica fan and user but still believe bringing the S2 and no R10 was a silly and arrogant busines move.
Now not being able to produce enough M9 is another story I do not get.

Leica still seems to be a technically excellent but business strategy and planning wise everything alse but excellent company.
Just my opinion, and maybe I am wrong.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Hate to see it :( While the M9 is phenomenal IMO, sadly I just can't say the same for the S2 no matter how much I want to ... and it isn't just the money (but that sure plays a part).

Form factor is a wonderful thing ... but in the end all that is secondary to what ends up in print ... and that is where I fell off the choo-choo. Had it delivered there in an uncontested manner, I would have found the money.

Frankly, the files I'm getting from the H4D/40 are what I expected from the S2 ... the H4D stuff looks more like my M9 shots only bigger. Sometimes you get a match up of lenses, imaging chain, and sensor that just does it, and sometimes you don't.

Now a R-10 would have been exactly what I could use. Even if 18 or so meg. I would have been there in a New York heart beat. I waited and waited, and then Leica whipped down their corporate zipper and took a leak on us long time loyal R users with a fortune in R glass and no digital SLR to put them on except a crippled DMR.

Instead Sony and Zeiss got my money :wtf: ... it's a world turned up-side-down. In a million years, who would have thunk it?

-Marc
 

tjv

Active member
I know one should never say never, but I don't think I'll every buy a Leica again. This from a rangefinder fanatic. I loved my film M's. The only thing they could do to get me back is release a digital medium format rangefinder aka Mamiya 7. The S2 is a great idea but just soooooooooo over priced, especially considering there are what, two lenses available and only one more ready to be released? Come on Leica! What are you thinking? I'm especially not into the idea of having to rely on their hopeless after sales support and international repairs dept again. Personally, I think you'd have to be mad to spend $22K on an S2 at this stage of the game.
 

xpixel

New member
The S2 is a great idea but just soooooooooo over priced, especially considering there are what, two lenses available and only one more ready to be released? Come on Leica! What are you thinking? I'm especially not into the idea of having to rely on their hopeless after sales support and international repairs dept again. Personally, I think you'd have to be mad to spend $22K on an S2 at this stage of the game.
Sorry but have you ever used a S2?
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Seems that what many of us feared WRT the S System becomes true - unfortunately!

1) Leica has pretty hard times to get even close to IQ delivered from Hasselblad and Phase
2) Leica has even more difficulty to come close to price levels of at least a H4D40 with 80mm standard lens
3) Leica seems to miss a complete lens lineup for even longer
4) The M9 was on my list because of my big investment in M glass - since I am happily using M43 (EP2) and partially M glass on this thing, I almost for sure will not buy an M9, just too much money and the files from the EP2 are stunning.

Hm.... did many of us not think and express this already long time ago?

Proves that my decision to go for Hasselblad, M43 and Nikon are more than right!
 

Paratom

Well-known member
Personally I dont see what should be wrong with the M9.
It is IMO the smallest full sensor camera, with the smallest avialable high quality lenses, with a great user interface. The only problem (not for me) is that Leica doesnt produce anough M9s for the market.
If I did not allread have a M9 I would really hard try to get one as soon as I could.
Regarding the S2 I do find the product interesting and I do not doubt that it is a great camera.
I just doubt that a company like Leica will supply and support in a way that many Pros will feel the need/reason to switch from other MF-cameras/Backs.
This starts with delivery of products in time as announced, with number of available units of the product once when they have started to really deliever the market, with the question, when other lenses will be available, etc etc.

The other thing/problem is price.

Anyways, where I see the S2 really attractive would be as a MF-camera which one could carry ver well outdoors and for hikes, and or for travel etc, where other MF cameras might be not tough enough, or too big or too heavy.
 

tjv

Active member
Sorry but have you ever used a S2?
I didn't mention image quality or ergonomics, just that there is no real system of lenses yet and no real support network to be seen anywhere near my part of the world. But no, for $22K USD, or over a third more where I live, I won't even bother trying the S2 as its currently presented. A Phase or Blad system is a much better investment. Of course, this is only my opinion but judging from others comments it's a common one. Which is a shame because there are many things going for the S2 on paper.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
... Personally I dont see what should be wrong with the M9.
It is IMO the smallest full sensor camera, with the smallest avialable high quality lenses, with a great user interface. The only problem (not for me) is that Leica doesnt produce anough M9s for the market.
+1.
 

georgl

New member
"I have used the S2 (not my cup of tea as far as images are concerned, but a very nice camera)"

It's basically a H4D40 sensor-wise, besides converter-profiles, there isn't much difference in IQ from the camera itself.
 

dhsimmonds

New member
Hate to see it :( While the M9 is phenomenal IMO, sadly I just can't say the same for the S2 no matter how much I want to ... and it isn't just the money (but that sure plays a part).

Form factor is a wonderful thing ... but in the end all that is secondary to what ends up in print ... and that is where I fell off the choo-choo. Had it delivered there in an uncontested manner, I would have found the money.

Frankly, the files I'm getting from the H4D/40 are what I expected from the S2 ... the H4D stuff looks more like my M9 shots only bigger. Sometimes you get a match up of lenses, imaging chain, and sensor that just does it, and sometimes you don't.

Now a R-10 would have been exactly what I could use. Even if 18 or so meg. I would have been there in a New York heart beat. I waited and waited, and then Leica whipped down their corporate zipper and took a leak on us long time loyal R users with a fortune in R glass and no digital SLR to put them on except a crippled DMR.

Instead Sony and Zeiss got my money :wtf: ... it's a world turned up-side-down. In a million years, who would have thunk it?

-Marc
+1
 
V

vsadov

Guest
Dear georgl

Could you please explain how I can see that "there isn't much difference in IQ from the camera itself", without using any converter profile? Why isn't there a converter profile that is good enough?

I am actually trying to convince myself that S2's IQ is just as good as
H40d-40's, but so far, the images that I have seen, show all kinds of little wierd stuff, especially at higher ISOs. Hassy's images shot in the similar environment, are simply nice.

Not being negative, just trying to understand what it is I am missing...
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Dear georgl

Could you please explain how I can see that "there isn't much difference in IQ from the camera itself", without using any converter profile? Why isn't there a converter profile that is good enough?

I am actually trying to convince myself that S2's IQ is just as good as
H40d-40's, but so far, the images that I have seen, show all kinds of little wierd stuff, especially at higher ISOs. Hassy's images shot in the similar environment, are simply nice.

Not being negative, just trying to understand what it is I am missing...
Well, with a S2 one thing that you'll be missing is the $8,000. difference ;)
 

fotografz

Well-known member
"I have used the S2 (not my cup of tea as far as images are concerned, but a very nice camera)"

It's basically a H4D40 sensor-wise, besides converter-profiles, there isn't much difference in IQ from the camera itself.
Basically, that is what I meant when I said the H4D/40 files were what I had hoped for from the S2 ... the sensor specs being similar, one would think so ... then the form factor and all that would be the deciding factor.

Unfortunately, the same 6m pixel size is about all that's similar. It's what happens to that sensor data in-camera and out of camera that counts in terms of the image quality that makes it to print. I think that involves more than just post processing profiles ... but some good profiles for the S2 sure wouldn't hurt. Where are they? I have 170 S2 RAW files just waiting to redo.

Nope, for now I'll stick with Hassey and Phase/Leaf when it comes to providing the end product ... which is all I care about.

BTW, I DO hope Leica makes a go of it with the S2. It is a really nice camera and a great idea ... not to mention sexy as all get out.

-Marc
 
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