stephengilbert
Active member
Don Libby doesn't use a Hasselblad. And how's that auction going? I assume that one of Leica's many fans would jump at the chance to buy an S2 for such an "attractive" price.
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Demo S2 at Kurland Photo(ebay)
- Thread starter glenerrolrd
- Start date
bensonga
Well-known member
Just imagine how different this whole conversation would have been if Leica had released an R10 on par with the best that Canon, Nikon and Sony have on offer and a lineup of new autofocus R lenses instead of going down the S2 route.
All those loyal and ever patient R system owners could have made the R10 a real commercial success for Leica.
Gary
R8 etc.
All those loyal and ever patient R system owners could have made the R10 a real commercial success for Leica.
Gary
R8 etc.
gogopix
Subscriber
"...Originally Posted by t_streng
Back to the original post it does seem that at least in this forum the interest in the S2 is not really the highest...."
I don't know... I see 40 posts here....
Boy, go away for a few weeks and you youngsters get into all SORTS of mischief.
Best regatrds
Victor
PS Xpixel, nice images...almost as good as my Contax when I used the P25....:deadhorse:
just kidding-they really are nice, maybe not $25,000 nice, but real nice :ROTFL:
Back to the original post it does seem that at least in this forum the interest in the S2 is not really the highest...."
I don't know... I see 40 posts here....
Hmmm...they why so much fuss over the price?
Boy, go away for a few weeks and you youngsters get into all SORTS of mischief.
Best regatrds
Victor
PS Xpixel, nice images...almost as good as my Contax when I used the P25....:deadhorse:
just kidding-they really are nice, maybe not $25,000 nice, but real nice :ROTFL:
KeithL
Well-known member
Victor, I don't know, I'm neither wealthy nor an enthusiast. Perhaps even wealthy enthusiasts seek value?
stephengilbert
Active member
"Perhaps even wealthy enthusiasts seek value?"
Right: you don't want to pay a price that's embarrassing.
Right: you don't want to pay a price that's embarrassing.
PeterA
Well-known member
People forget that Leica made its name in film days and that the lenses in M and R guise were good enough to also use in digital guise. A significant part of the appeal for Leica users is the continuity and continued relevance of their gear.
By introducing the S2 and not the R10 - Leica introduced a discontinuity and in fact turned its back on the customer base it had encouraged and developed and promoted. Form a Customer loyalty perspective - this is as bad as it gets.
Fortunately they hit the ball out of the park with the M9.
By introducing the S2 and not the R10 - Leica introduced a discontinuity and in fact turned its back on the customer base it had encouraged and developed and promoted. Form a Customer loyalty perspective - this is as bad as it gets.
Fortunately they hit the ball out of the park with the M9.
Guy and Jack said it as cleanly as you can during their review ... GET SOME profiles, get the glass out there. Don't be stubborn about it, just do it. I believe the S2 would sing then ... well, at least sing to those with the money to listen :ROTFL:
Lets face it, there are really only four issues here. None of these are potentially hard to fix but, and for the life of me I can't understand Leica's logic here, Leica don't seem in a hurry to address these issues.
1: Price and perceived value. Knock a third off the price and I'm sure they'd be getting way more positive comments here, even considering the following...
2: No dedicated profiles or software. This is what is killing enthusiasm over image quality. People are judging final output based on non-optimised software. Why release such a *PRO* camera without having this in place? It's insane, which brings me to point 3.
3: Lenses... Where are they? On paper? Enough said.
4: Support network. Even in the antipodes I can get a back up Phase of Blad system couriered to me via warranty over night if the one I'm using goes down. I'd expect that level of support when throwing down money on what could amounts to a years wages for some.
Don't get me wrong, I really *did* think the S2 would be *the* camera for me. I just think Leica have mis-judged the market.
1: Price and perceived value. Knock a third off the price and I'm sure they'd be getting way more positive comments here, even considering the following...
2: No dedicated profiles or software. This is what is killing enthusiasm over image quality. People are judging final output based on non-optimised software. Why release such a *PRO* camera without having this in place? It's insane, which brings me to point 3.
3: Lenses... Where are they? On paper? Enough said.
4: Support network. Even in the antipodes I can get a back up Phase of Blad system couriered to me via warranty over night if the one I'm using goes down. I'd expect that level of support when throwing down money on what could amounts to a years wages for some.
Don't get me wrong, I really *did* think the S2 would be *the* camera for me. I just think Leica have mis-judged the market.
Almost, but no cigar.
The aspect ratio is different. The back comes off the H4D. There is a 90 degree finder and a waist level finder, etc.
Actually, I really think there are only 2-1/2... 1) Lenses, 2) accurate profiles for either LR or C1, preferably BOTHa and 1/2) Keep enough replacement bodies on hand you can do an immediate turn-around to send out a working body whilst the customer's is getting WARRANTY repair --- in this way, Leica could continue to take as long they wanted with the repairs. Heck, that might even motivate them to speed up turn-arounds or tighten up outbound QC. Or both...
If those were all in place, the price would not be a barrier --- IMO the folks that want one would buy it.
My measly .02,
Fair call about the price. I certainly bought Leica Ms for long enough to know that I'd pay a premium for certain things I value. In the Ms case that was small size, super sharp fast lenses and rangefinder focusing. Those things remained in the Ms digital transition, but certain other I valued were compromised. I'm confident Leica have for the most part addressed my concerns with the M9. Given time I'm sure the S2 could swing me and many photographers over, I'll just give the system a while to mature before looking at it again.
How big is Leica in terms of employees and turnover compared to Hasselblad? Is it even realistic to expect more from them at this point in time?
How big is Leica in terms of employees and turnover compared to Hasselblad? Is it even realistic to expect more from them at this point in time?
markowich
New member
first of all leica has misjudged their own capabilities. they are still stuggling to get out of last century's technology, with the M9 being the first postive step in the right direction. the S2 prestige project is apparently overburdening them. i fear it might end up as the R9 plan, namely in the trash bin.
peter
peter
I stay corrected and say "there is not much interest in buying one" however still a lot of interested in "chatting about it""...Originally Posted by t_streng
Back to the original post it does seem that at least in this forum the interest in the S2 is not really the highest...."
I don't know... I see 40 posts here....
....
Best regatrds
Victor
Mark Gowin
Member
I just returned home from 3 days of shooting in Savannah, GA. I have to say the S2 was a pleasure to use. It was no problem to carry around and shoot all day for three days. I am very happy with the ergonomics of the camera and the images it produces.
Mark
Mark
I agree with you. Its a real pleasure and fun with this cam to shoot and carry around. I don't think Leica has mis-judged the market as mentioned from others...
The question/issue/discussion isn't that the camera doesn't make the majority of it's eventual users happy, it's that Leica, for a laundry list of reasons, isn't going to see ENOUGH eventual users, quickly enough, to keep the unit from ending up a collector's item/short-run technology show piece.
While it would be a shame if the S2 program fired a market blank, should it do so they only have themselves to blame. They knew what the market looked like and they knew the competitors, so when they took the risk and burned their R10/R-user bridge (and enormous installed goodwill) behind them they knew needed to pull 100 rabbits out of 100 hats with perfect timing to ensure the S2 was a success.
While it would be a shame if the S2 program fired a market blank, should it do so they only have themselves to blame. They knew what the market looked like and they knew the competitors, so when they took the risk and burned their R10/R-user bridge (and enormous installed goodwill) behind them they knew needed to pull 100 rabbits out of 100 hats with perfect timing to ensure the S2 was a success.
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Mark Gowin
Member
I bought the S2 in early February of this year. Right now I only have the 70mm lens. I am waiting on other lenses to be released before deciding on my next lens.
Mark
Mark