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Thread: A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

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    A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

    If I sound a little miffed, well spotted. I have just discovered a bug in Phocus and Snow Leopard around color management. This is a bug that I have previously found in an earlier version of Phocus, and which was corrected. I was advised that the procedure was to send an email to Hasselblad support, which I did. The response was along the lines of 'sod off unless you are a dealer, talk to your local Hasselblad man'. While I have enormous respect for the local guy, it doesn't seem to me that I should go to him for a Phocus bug.

    With that background, I was wondering whether Phase treats its customer base with the same indifference.
    Cheers,
    Jeff
    www.jeff-grant.com

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    Re: A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

    Hi Jeff,

    Sorry you have had a bad experience.

    For any support based enquiry we always point you towards the dealer as they have the best access to support via email, phone, face to face. We don't want to burden you with having to contact support individually.

    Also in a lot of cases your dealer should be equipped to fix your issue and be in the same time zone and speak the same language.

    I imagine you got the standard email response, so please don't take it personally. Rest assured though, I am sure they are very glad you pointed out an issue.

    David

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    Re: A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

    David, I was in the process of responding to the email I received when your post appeared. I have copied you on it. The current stance is denial.

    As a bit of further background, I took my Sony gear to the knackers today. So I am now a Hasselblad only person. Sometimes I doubt my sanity.
    Cheers,
    Jeff
    www.jeff-grant.com

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    Re: A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffg53 View Post
    David, I was in the process of responding to the email I received when your post appeared. I have copied you on it. The current stance is denial.

    As a bit of further background, I took my Sony gear to the knackers today. So I am now a Hasselblad only person. Sometimes I doubt my sanity.
    Jeff,

    I would argue against saying the current stance is 'denial'.

    Support asked for your Apple System Profile so they can investigate further.

    Denial would simply mean they ignored your request or told you there was no issue and would not investigate further.

    David

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    Re: A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Jeff,

    I would argue against saying the current stance is 'denial'.

    Support asked for your Apple System Profile so they can investigate further.

    Denial would simply mean they ignored your request or told you there was no issue and would not investigate further.

    David
    Denial may be too harsh but here is the text:

    I can tell you that I have been running Snow Leopard for quite some time now & as of yet I have not seen any color differentiation problems.
    I also just updated from 10.6.2 to 10.6.3 in case there was something gone astray there.
    We have also had no other reported issues of this nature.

    Choose your own adjective. It certainly doesn't sound like 'you may have a problem'. If you go through the thread, you can see the difference, and even better in my note.
    Cheers,
    Jeff
    www.jeff-grant.com

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    Re: A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

    Jeff you missed out this part of the email...

    "Howvever not that we are discounting your findings , you may be able to assist us further via way of providing your ASP..."

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    Re: A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

    Jeff, would you mind sharing what the problem actually is?

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    Re: A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Jeff you missed out this part of the email...

    "Howvever not that we are discounting your findings , you may be able to assist us further via way of providing your ASP..."
    David, glad for you to include it but that's the fob off. I hope to be proven wrong very soon. This issue has been on the Hasselblad forum for a few days now with not much action. In frustration, I asked how to raise an issue with support.

    I hope someone comes along soon and answers the original question. I would really like to hear from some Phase users.
    Cheers,
    Jeff
    www.jeff-grant.com

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    Re: A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

    Quote Originally Posted by P. Chong View Post
    Jeff, would you mind sharing what the problem actually is?
    The problem is that with SL, Phocus doesn't honour the profile of an external monitor. It uses the profile of the MacBook for both monitors. This then leaves you with different colour when you open the file in PS. When you use the external monitor for critical colour, this gives some odd results.
    Cheers,
    Jeff
    www.jeff-grant.com

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    Re: A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffg53 View Post
    David, glad for you to include it but that's the fob off. I hope to be proven wrong very soon. This issue has been on the Hasselblad forum for a few days now with not much action. In frustration, I asked how to raise an issue with support.

    I hope someone comes along soon and answers the original question. I would really like to hear from some Phase users.
    Jeff, the Hasselblad forum, while extremely useful is not the proper channel to raise a support issue.

    Thats why we always suggest you go straight to your dealer.

    In fairness to us, your email was responded to same day, with a request for more information.

    David

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    Re: A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

    David, I admit that I didn't check the Hasselblad web site. I went to the Phocus manual which has zero about how to raise an issue. Having checked the website, I can now see that Damon Rulach is the man. Should I contact him now, or will you do it?

    When this problem occurred in an earlier version, Nick picked it up and raised it as an issue. Subsequently, I was under the impression that Hasselbad monitored the forum, and that they would pick up what looked like software bugs. Is this not the case? It would be really good to know what the interaction was between Hasselblad and the forum.
    Cheers,
    Jeff
    www.jeff-grant.com

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    Re: A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffg53 View Post
    David, I admit that I didn't check the Hasselblad web site. I went to the Phocus manual which has zero about how to raise an issue. Having checked the website, I can now see that Damon Rulach is the man. Should I contact him now, or will you do it?

    When this problem occurred in an earlier version, Nick picked it up and raised it as an issue. Subsequently, I was under the impression that Hasselbad monitored the forum, and that they would pick up what looked like software bugs. Is this not the case? It would be really good to know what the interaction was between Hasselblad and the forum.
    Jeff,

    Part of the sales process should be error handling. Ie. Who to contact when something is amiss. We point you towards the dealer as he is normally in you time zone, speaks the same language and has been trained by us.

    We of course do monitor the forum but it is impractical to have someone monitoring it 24/7 when it will still be faster to talk to your dealer.

    Please bear in mind this is exactly the same as Phase One operates, even on their official user forum.

    However, I have seen Eamon has already looked into your case and given you an answer. All same day service.

    Not bad from any kind of company.

    David

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    Re: A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffg53 View Post
    With that background, I was wondering whether Phase treats its customer base with the same indifference.
    WRT the this original post question, I would answer as follows:

    Whenever I've had any issue, I've always started with my dealer. Fortunately, my dealer is very responsive (admittedly, some are more responsive than other it seems) and gets back to me quickly either with an answer or an "I'm looking into it and will get back to you as soon as I have an answer" type response.

    On the one occasion that my dealer did not find an answer I was satisfied with, I then contacted Phase directly. I was pretty quickly in contact with somebody that could make a decision and we got the issue resolved quickly.

    So from my perspective, NEVER at any time in the process have I had the feeling I was getting a standardized form-letter type of response or compromised service.

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

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    Re: A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffg53 View Post
    David, glad for you to include it but that's the fob off. I hope to be proven wrong very soon. This issue has been on the Hasselblad forum for a few days now with not much action. In frustration, I asked how to raise an issue with support.

    I hope someone comes along soon and answers the original question. I would really like to hear from some Phase users.

    I will say that while I worked for Phase One the most impressive thing to me was the technical support infrastructure. Due to this infrastructure, it allows for a very direct collaboration between dealers, end users, and the manufacturer technical support team.

    There's maybe 2 issues here though, technical support versus bugs, or longer term software issues. From a technical support standpoint, take this case from yesterday. I had one of our customers contact me with an issue related to their digital back battery. I opened a support case and initiated a written, direct record of this case with Phase One technical support.

    Today Phase One technical support has issued an RMA with instructions to the customer and I have access to all of that communication. Generally I have found over the years that technical support is outstanding on medium format digital products, but this is a level that I never had experience with. I found being able to directly be part of the communication process with Phase One technical support to be a huge benefit.

    Regarding software bugs, issues, etc. I do feel it is a good idea to work with a dealer. I think the manufacturer's have difficulty solving bugs in a timely manner (in general). It can be very difficult to quantify a software issue such as the one you're describing Jeff. I feel a dealer is sometimes better equipped to help point out and describe the issue to a manufacturer. Naturally we can also sometimes solve some of the issues ourselves (and sometimes there actually isn't an issue...).

    As much as I hate to say this, part of this can also stem from the fact that a good dealer has a deep (and usually long term) relationship with a manufacturer whose products they sell. This existing relationship helps a dealer to specify with credibility exactly what the problem is - especially when a manufacturer can't seem to agree with a client, or understand exactly what a client is referring to. Many issues brought to the attention of technical support can be subtle.

    Several years ago when I sold Hasselblad, a customer bought an H3D and needed to perform custom white untethered. This had been requested for years. I contacted some of my contacts at Hasselblad and explained the importance of this, I explained how important this customer was, etc, etc. Yes, I did some selling, which perhaps shouldn't have to be done, but sometimes, to change priorities, that's what it takes. And, within 3 weeks, after years of requests, the change was implemented.

    I would say generally, a good dealer that has communicated well with an end user can be more effective at getting an issue resolved with a manufacturer. Having been on the end of many such conversations with end users, I will say that many times the issue doesn't actually exist (user error), many times the issue is not communicated clearly (at first), and many times the issue is just not something that is going to get priority (though it should still be remedied).

    Jeff, I'm sure your issue is real. And my experience is just one side of things and also maybe has some truths that shouldn't be…but that is my experience. In terms of the end user getting what they want accomplished, I have found this approach - working through the (good) dealer to be the most effective and efficient.
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
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    Re: A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

    "I was advised that the procedure was to send an email to Hasselblad support."

    Who advised that? If it was your dealer then perhaps Hasselblad should have a talk with him. If not him, then who?

    I've not had a single issue that I brought to my Hasselblad dealer's attention not dealt with swiftly ... 95% of the time by him, sometimes by a person he contacts if he doesn't have the answer. I have my dealer's work, home and cell phone number and can call him anytime night or day ... which i've done while on the job shooting. I don't want to know all the inner workings of any company I do business with ... just a main contact that knows the inner-workings, and knows who to contact for any given issue that may arise that he can't resolve ... hardware or software.

    I've also never had anything like a form letter from Hasselblad regarding an issue I've had. I tell the dealer and he gets the answer.


    -Marc

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    Re: A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Jeff,

    Part of the sales process should be error handling. Ie. Who to contact when something is amiss. We point you towards the dealer as he is normally in you time zone, speaks the same language and has been trained by us.

    We of course do monitor the forum but it is impractical to have someone monitoring it 24/7 when it will still be faster to talk to your dealer.

    Please bear in mind this is exactly the same as Phase One operates, even on their official user forum.

    However, I have seen Eamon has already looked into your case and given you an answer. All same day service.

    Not bad from any kind of company.

    David
    David,

    I am happy to stand corrected. I have received excellent service from Eamon. I went wrong when I asked on the Hasselblad Digital forum how to report a bug, and received an email address. It was all downhill from there. As you are aware, my experience with support from Hasselblad has ranged from stellar to appalling. The good news is that stellar is recent.

    I really didn't start this thread to bash Hasselblad. I can go over to LL to do that. I was genuinely interested in how Phase relates to its customer base. Perhaps I should have worded the post differently.

    It would also help if the Phocus manual stated the procedure for bug reporting. It seemed like a logical place to look. It would also help if the part of the Hasselblad Digital forum were more obvious, and was stated there.

    Cheers,

    Jeff
    Cheers,
    Jeff
    www.jeff-grant.com

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    Re: A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    "I was advised that the procedure was to send an email to Hasselblad support."

    Who advised that? If it was your dealer then perhaps Hasselblad should have a talk with him. If not him, then who?

    I've not had a single issue that I brought to my Hasselblad dealer's attention not dealt with swiftly ... 95% of the time by him, sometimes by a person he contacts if he doesn't have the answer. I have my dealer's work, home and cell phone number and can call him anytime night or day ... which i've done while on the job shooting. I don't want to know all the inner workings of any company I do business with ... just a main contact that knows the inner-workings, and knows who to contact for any given issue that may arise that he can't resolve ... hardware or software.

    I've also never had anything like a form letter from Hasselblad regarding an issue I've had. I tell the dealer and he gets the answer.


    -Marc
    Marc,

    I got it as a response on the Hasselblad Digital forum. I also have all my dealer's numbers, including his wife's cell phone which I dial by mistake occasionally. It just never occurred to me to go back to him for a software bug. It's like ringing your car salesman when you get a flat, but rest assured he will be my contact from now on.

    The support that I receive these days is excellent. I have no complaints. Maybe that is why I was so surprised by the response to my email which I believe could be better worded.
    Cheers,
    Jeff
    www.jeff-grant.com

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    Re: A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

    Steve and Jack,

    Many thanks. I am now painfully aware that I go to my dealer for everything. My sensitivity around this started with the red cast on the early H3Ds which took many months to resolve even with my dealer involved. My opinion is that software is different, and should be treated differently, but I will follow the procedure now that I am aware of it.
    Cheers,
    Jeff
    www.jeff-grant.com

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    Re: A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffg53 View Post
    The problem is that with SL, Phocus doesn't honour the profile of an external monitor. It uses the profile of the MacBook for both monitors. This then leaves you with different colour when you open the file in PS. When you use the external monitor for critical colour, this gives some odd results.
    Just a follow up from me for others who may have followed this thread.

    Turns out the bug is NOT with Phocus but related to PhotoShop CS4 and the Mac OS.

    David

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    Re: A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

    David, you beat me to it. I was just about to post the update. Here's the pointer to the issue on the Adobe forum, although I haven't been able to check it as teh forums seems to be off the air in Australia.

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/2620301
    Cheers,
    Jeff
    www.jeff-grant.com

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    Re: A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

    Yeah, sometimes you wonder who writes some of the stuff on the internet ... especially if it comes from a company headquartered in another country, or from the company's "geek" division ... LOL!

    The dealer is supposed to be the human face of the company, but it sure wouldn't hurt if there was a little more compassion squeezed into dry e-mail responses huh?


    Hasselblad should have David write the lead-in to any generalized e-response to English speaking clients.

    -Marc

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    Re: A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

    Based on Jeff's experience we will actually be re-writing the statement.

    So even though there was no Phocus bug in the end, some good will out afterall.

    Sorry to Jeff for his 'computer says no' experience.

    David

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    Re: A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Jeff,

    Part of the sales process should be error handling. Ie. Who to contact when something is amiss. We point you towards the dealer as he is normally in you time zone, speaks the same language and has been trained by us.

    We of course do monitor the forum but it is impractical to have someone monitoring it 24/7 when it will still be faster to talk to your dealer.

    Please bear in mind this is exactly the same as Phase One operates, even on their official user forum.
    As the Head of Technical Services at one of the largest Phase One dealers I have the following disjointed thoughts (it is 5am so please allow for typos and uninspired prose):
    - Phase also encourages all support to run through the dealer. As David Grover says they usually speak your language, know your circumstances and equipment, and most importantly: know you. When someone calls me I know most of the time their general level of computer savyness which helps more than you would think with troubleshooting.
    - You have a MUCH greater chance of having a bug fixed or a feature added with a medium format company than with a dSLR. With a dealer who chooses to take an active role in their relationship with the manufacturer you (as the end user) have very close access to "the top". When a customer gives me a bug or a feature request in the software or firmware the guy I go to with that information is the HEAD engineer of that division for Phase One or Leaf (hardware or software). Absolutely unprecedented compared to Canon/Nikon/Sony etc. I've seen dozens of improvements specifically requested by us from the early Capture One 4.X days to the current version 5.1.1. I would argue that no company is better in the world in this than Phase One, and that is upheld by the nearly universal praise for Capture One and it's very strong market share amongst 3rd party cameras (canon, nikon, leica etc). However, I am admittedly very biased :-).
    - Often the most expensive piece of any system is assumed to be the source of any problem within that system. Thus the digital back / digital-back-software is suspected when in fact something else is up (lighting/sync/OS/monitor/etc). If I owned a digital back, despite years of experience, I might well do the same thing - very natural tendency. We (and your dealer apparently) are happy to do what we can to help even when we suspect the problem is not with a product we sold you.
    - Phase forums are also not meant as the place to go for technical support. It is not practical to do serious tech support via that medium. Still it's a great option for those who want to see what recent issues might have been discovered or to see if someone else has already looked into and found the cause of some issue (even if it wasn't the fault of the mnfr software).
    - Glad you got your problem solved!


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    Re: A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

    Just to add here as I am also a beta tester for C1 and even in these cases if I see something I report it to Doug at CI which he reports to Phase One. Outside of that I run everything through him or if sales related Steve or Dave and sometimes all three. I have a standing issue right now on my back with a spring stuck for my battery compartment I can release the battery but the button is sticking so I have to reach in and hit a little catch inside the compartment. Not a big deal and certainly does not stop me from shooting in the slightest but just something I need to get fixed. My dealer CI has a open RMA for me for whenever I get this in to get repaired. It took all of 5 minutes to get that done when it first happened and Doug is standing by with all my documentation for when I am ready to send it in. Even my direct talks with Phase it is implied to work with your dealer unless you maybe having some issue with them which i am not at all. But my point here is your dealer is a very valuable resource make good use of it and they will always have your back. I specifically chose me dealer before I even started into this world. That is how important I view that relationship. Most time these folks are genuinely very nice and pleasant to work with. I always say pick your dealer well they are the middle to the end result.
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    Re: A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

    Thanks folks, the problem isn't solved yet, but it's now being slugged out between two immovable objects.

    David, given that I now get paid silly amounts of money to write weasel words, I would happily review anything you put together for antipodean sensitivity.
    Cheers,
    Jeff
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    Re: A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffg53 View Post
    Thanks folks, the problem isn't solved yet, but it's now being slugged out between two immovable objects.

    David, given that I now get paid silly amounts of money to write weasel words, I would happily review anything you put together for antipodean sensitivity.
    Sir Isaac Newton F=MA

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    Re: A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Sir Isaac Newton F=MA

    Force equals mass times acceleration.

    Someone just needs a bigger bat to swing
    I'm not sure what sort of bat would move either Adobe or Apple. Neither is renowned for flexibility. I give you printing targets under CS4 as an example. I'm glad I have a workaround.
    Cheers,
    Jeff
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    Re: A question on Phase responsiveness and accessibility

    Very true Jeff. Pretty big mountains to move for sure
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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