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Thread: A few S2 things

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    A few S2 things

    Hi all,

    lets not get into another S2 sling fest here, I just want to talk about a few new features the camera has to offer in isolation.

    From reading someones description of the new S2 firmware update, many improvements have been implemented. Eg. exposure comp in viewfinder and increased tethered speed. But one improvement, listed by another forum member, caught my eye:

    11. Automatic detection of interchangeable focusing screen types.

    Does this mean, when using a screen with crop lines, that files can be tagged with metadata so they are automatically cropped when imported into a RAW converter? It seems like a simple thing to implement - as long as there's the ability to turn off the function via the camera menu - and would be a big deal to me, especially if there was a screen available with totally blacked out cropped sides for 4x5 ratio. I'm assuming there would also need to be some electronic metering compensation to make sure the black strips didn't result in overexposure.

    Anyway, I genuinely like the form and robust construction of the S2 and I hope the system continues to grow and Leica continues to implement further useful improvements via firmware and software.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: A few S2 things

    It seems to me you would have to have dedicated software to implement such a feature to actually read those tags.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A few S2 things

    Agree on Guy's comments. No way Adobe or Apple would make the investment to allow that feature for such a small volume user base. Custom software opens up that door.

    It sounds like the feature adjusts the metering to compensate , if needed, for the focus screen used. Same as is done by say a Canon user manually via the on-camera menu.

    Using off the shelf software you'd be limited to may a feature where the sensor masked itself based on the screen that was installed and it's ratio hash marks. IIRC doesn't the Nikon D3x have this feature for 4:5 ?
    Last edited by robmac; 25th April 2010 at 05:01.

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    Re: A few S2 things

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    11. Automatic detection of interchangeable focusing screen types.

    Does this mean, when using a screen with crop lines, that files can be tagged with metadata so they are automatically cropped when imported into a RAW converter? It seems like a simple thing to implement - as long as there's the ability to turn off the function via the camera menu - and would be a big deal to me, especially if there was a screen available with totally blacked out cropped sides for 4x5 ratio. I'm assuming there would also need to be some electronic metering compensation to make sure the black strips didn't result in overexposure.
    I am not sure how this is implemented. Plus, I don't know if Leica has developed a focusing screen with crop line. I think the "grid" focusing screen is more like a rule of thirds arrangement, but I am guessing as I haven't seen details on the screen.

    I updated the firmware on my S2 and looked at the metadata of a photo in LightRoom. I didn't see any field which indicates the type of focusing screen so I don't see any way to do what you are describing. However, it would be very easy to to make a preset in LR for the S2 which includes the crop you want and apply the preset on import.

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    Re: A few S2 things

    Yes, you are right. One could just as easily create a preset to crop everything when imported. I just thought it sounded like an interesting feature. I'm pretty sure I read on the official Leica site that they make or will make screens with crop lines. For someone like myself, who would use 4x5 for all personal work but 3x2 for all commercial work, it would be a great feature. It would be even better if the S2 had in VF crop lines a la the D3X, but that's obviously not going to happen with a firmware upgrade.

    Anyway, is it considered that most of the issues of the original firmware are corrected now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gowin View Post
    I am not sure how this is implemented. Plus, I don't know if Leica has developed a focusing screen with crop line. I think the "grid" focusing screen is more like a rule of thirds arrangement, but I am guessing as I haven't seen details on the screen.

    I updated the firmware on my S2 and looked at the metadata of a photo in LightRoom. I didn't see any field which indicates the type of focusing screen so I don't see any way to do what you are describing. However, it would be very easy to to make a preset in LR for the S2 which includes the crop you want and apply the preset on import.

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    Re: A few S2 things

    The new firmware addresses most of the items on my wish list, but not all. For example, the S2 has dual memory card slots and you can set the camera to write to the cards in parallel. However, it only does this if you select DNG+jpg - it put the DNG on one card and the jpg on the other. Unfortunately, it still won't write the same DNG to both cards (e.g., for backup). I figured this would have been fixed in this firmware revision, but it isn't. I know Leica is aware of this deficiency. On the bright side, at least the camera firmware is user updateable - no need for a trip to the dealer.

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    Re: A few S2 things

    Is it just my impression, but many of Tim's frustrations seem to have gone away with other users and the S2 is slowly but surely showing its metal?

    Users here like, and xpixels images are a real step above many - not resolution but and interesting charater of the IQ. I think traditional Leica fans will go for it. Whether their banks go along with their desires, well, time will tell. :-)

    Victor

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    Re: A few S2 things

    I'm no expert on the currency markets but I would have thought that the recent (and substantial) drop in value of the Euro vs $US should have afforded Leica an opportunity to drop their prices and stimulate sales. I do like those images that xpixels has been posting lately. Not sure I can put it into words but they are special.

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    Re: A few S2 things

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    Is it just my impression, but many of Tim's frustrations seem to have gone away with other users and the S2 is slowly but surely showing its metal?
    FTR, Tim returned his S2 after some frustrations over not being able to get a sensor issue resolved.

    Re the S2 itself, it is surely an awesome camera, and will likely be loved by many as soon as it is a more complete system -- which should be any day now with the release of the 35 and 120 lenses imminent.
    Jack
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: A few S2 things

    The 35mm lens is significantly bigger than the 70mm which seems unwieldily to me. Why that is not sure but 82 mm filter size is huge. These lenses are pretty dang big
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A few S2 things

    Got to play with an S2 in NH last weekend and it really is an amazing camera. The 35 is bigger than the 70 but definitely not unwieldy. The image quality of the lenses wide open is what really makes this system sing. Just need the 350 and a TS lens and I would consider buying in.

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    Re: A few S2 things

    But even the 35mm is only FOV of a 28mm. Really need a 28 rectilinear. And 350? why not a modular, with an AF and 2-3 front ends. As it is, most MF are usueless for wildlife. Unless you are Doug Herr! :-) )

    Victor

  13. #13
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: A few S2 things

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    snip....not resolution but and interesting charater of the IQ. I think traditional Leica fans will go for it.
    Victor
    Yeah... I'm struggling with this. The sony a900 had this going for it early on (still does). Just something "different". There is something about the look of the files that is compelling. Always have been... but there is also something about how it renders sharpness that looks very 35mm to my eyes. I haven't seen anything that combines both the beautiful leica look and the quality of sharpness of, say, the mamiya/hassy solutions

    It's like it has this incredible "look" hiding behind some indescribable veil... but that just may be me.

    BUT... only looking at websize images, and not being someone who's played with the cam personally, I'm not at liberty to be taken seriously. I'm still trying to get everything I can out of a 5dii!!!

    I applaud Leica with the firmware updates and (finally) getting some more lenses out there. I can't wait to see the results with the new glass.

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    Re: A few S2 things

    Victor have a look over on the S2 forum on LUF and in a post by jplomely you can see a moose shot he took with the 180 wide open. I find that many of my wildlife shots are on my 70-200 Canon lens even though I have a 400 and 500. Last time I went for moose I got great shots on my M9 as they really were close.

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    Re: A few S2 things

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    But even the 35mm is only FOV of a 28mm. Really need a 28 rectilinear. And 350? why not a modular, with an AF and 2-3 front ends. As it is, most MF are usueless for wildlife. Unless you are Doug Herr! :-) )

    Victor
    Leica is working on a 24mm S lens so the wide end will be covered.

    Mark

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    Re: A few S2 things

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Lewis View Post
    ...and not being someone who's played with the cam personally...
    Shelby, if you want to try the S2 just let me know. I live only a couple hours away from you and would be happy to meet up sometime. The only lens I have at this time is 70mm. I'm still saving pennies and deciding what lens to get next.

    Mark
    Last edited by Mark Gowin; 14th May 2010 at 14:57. Reason: reword for clarification

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    Re: A few S2 things

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gowin View Post
    Shelby, if you want to try the S2 just let me know. I live only a couple hours away from you and would be happy to meet up sometime. The only lens I have at this time is 70mm. I'm still saving pennies and deciding what lens to get next.

    Mark
    Or we could send him an S2 to test drive....

    David
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    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: A few S2 things

    Quote Originally Posted by dfarkas View Post
    Or we could send him an S2 to test drive....

    David


    Call Steve Hendrix and ask him what it's like dealing with me while I try and figure out a "budget" for my MF kit, lol! I think he's been talking with me for around 5 years now. I actually am beginning to like the S2 more and more, but man the price. OUCH!

    If there is one system that is completely and totally out of my price range... it's the leica system. Anyway... I'm looking RZ anyway. Kinda the opposite of s2, don't you think.

    Still I'd love to shoot it!!!

    BTW... I'm not laughing AT you guys. I'm really flattered you'd offer. I'm mostly going to be shooting art portraits and faces the next few years with a few primes... so leica could have me covered very nicely. BUT... I'm also taking a family of five back to grad school to get a doctorate. My wife will be in school as well. Both my sons are on the autism spectrum... so we have med expenses. Spending $30K to get a single camera body and two lenses is about as remote a possibility as is colonizing the moon in the next 5 years. I wish that weren't reality!

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    Re: A few S2 things

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gowin View Post
    Leica is working on a 24mm S lens so the wide end will be covered.

    Mark
    Didn't know that...good news. The 35 would be more a "walkaround' for me (I use the 28 on the M9 and R9DMR) as I use for foreign travel and the WA is more important than the normal. I do use the 50/1.4 on M9 a lot though, and the 70mm seems right with 35/24, pretty good for me
    (actually I used the 35mm on an old Leica R4s for 20 years, that I liked better than a 50mm in most circumstances. With the advent of stiching, I just turn, take two shots and get a 25-30MP M9 shot!)

    Victor

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    Re: A few S2 things

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Lewis View Post


    Call Steve Hendrix and ask him what it's like dealing with me while I try and figure out a "budget" for my MF kit, lol! I think he's been talking with me for around 5 years now. I actually am beginning to like the S2 more and more, but man the price. OUCH!

    If there is one system that is completely and totally out of my price range... it's the leica system. Anyway... I'm looking RZ anyway. Kinda the opposite of s2, don't you think.

    Still I'd love to shoot it!!!

    BTW... I'm not laughing AT you guys. I'm really flattered you'd offer. I'm mostly going to be shooting art portraits and faces the next few years with a few primes... so leica could have me covered very nicely. BUT... I'm also taking a family of five back to grad school to get a doctorate. My wife will be in school as well. Both my sons are on the autism spectrum... so we have med expenses. Spending $30K to get a single camera body and two lenses is about as remote a possibility as is colonizing the moon in the next 5 years. I wish that weren't reality!
    I know it may be against Leica's business model, but when a system is expensive, but the manufacturer thinks that it will hold its value, they offer attractive leases. I remember one year I leased a Mercedes 190 (C class today) for a buck a month cheaper than a Honda! It was all because MB residual values were better.

    In spite of all the expensive stuff I have I have never spent even $20k in any one year. I parlayed up in increments for the Phase P65+ and have just lived with my purchases (to the point of being boringly faithful to the COntax )

    I depends on your POV. If you think it is the rigfht system, and struggle for 3 years, then lose on another system you have not only lost the money on the higher depreciating system, but you also have not had 3 yrs of pleasure from the one you like (BUTTTT gotta REALLLLY like it)

    In the long run is likely cheaper. Anyway that's the brainwashing I do to convince myself to wait, buy the best FOR ME, and then live with it for years. I have every camera and almost every lens I ever bought, and like almost all.

    Same for cars and audio equipment (that is 25 yrs old, and still holding value - tube Audio Research stuff)

    Shelby, I'm not trying to sell you on the S2, but to say that, if you keep it a long time, even an S2 could make sense at its price.

    best regards
    Victor

    PS From what I've seen of your stuff, you will do it justice too!

    PPS DIdnt see the bottom part about going back to school. SOmetimes equipment falls WAYYY down in priority realtive to real life. Been there many times. Gear in the end is just gear.
    Last edited by gogopix; 14th May 2010 at 16:03.

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    Re: A few S2 things

    Shelby, I understand and respect your situation. My offer to let you shoot my S2 was meant as a fun time. I have always liked your work (e.g., posted in the Sony forum) and thought it could be fun to see what you can do with the S2.
    Last edited by Mark Gowin; 14th May 2010 at 16:34. Reason: clarification

  22. #22
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: A few S2 things

    OK... not to take over this thread... but I've not been an S2 fan at all. I'm just now starting to see stuff from it I like. I have, however, been a Leica fan for a while (never shot one in my life though). I LOVE Leica's quality esthetic though. They, more than just about anyone, appeal to the camera user in me. The whole idea of "buy the right thing the first time" resonates very strongly with me even though I rarely get the chance to actually buy what I REALLY want.

    That in mind... I hope they continue to refine the firmware for the S2 to the point that it becomes everything it can possibly be. I have a feeling the two newer lenses, especially the telephoto, are going to be stellar.

    I still feel the whole post-end of things is unresolved... and until that ship tightens up things are still going to be spotty.

    Mark, David... I might take you guys up on a shoot. Really. I've said more than my fair piece about the S2. Some of it pretty incredulous (sorry ). I'd love to get a model to tag along with me and come up to shoot with one and then sit in front of a screen and really see what the handling, ergos, and RAW files are all about.

    Thanks Guys...

  23. #23
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: A few S2 things

    Ah Priorities, Victor... don't you just love them.

    ARGGG!!!!

    Thanks for the kind comments.

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    Re: A few S2 things

    i have just read the story about the S2 fasion photography in the new LFI magazine. There are some amusing hints:

    "Never, never use CaptureOne" with S2 files... he was shooting a red product with a red dress on a red background ... then he rent a hasselblad with a phase one back and all went ok... BUT after using the Adobe RAW converter with the Leica S2 files he compared again and the S2 shoots were a lot better than the Hasselblad/PhaseOne combination

    What irritates me a little are the shots in the magazine.. they are not special (sharpness?!) - check for example this:

    http://www.lfi-online.de/ceemes//bas...attachment__=1

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    Re: A few S2 things

    xpixel - it's comments like you're referring to that led me cancel my LFI sub some time ago (though they still send me the odd copy).

    The 'magazine' is simply far too much, or simply too blatant, in-your-face fanboyism - even by brand-specific 'magazine' standards. By contrast I love 'Victor' - it's advertising of course, but unlike LFI, it's not a print version of LUF.

    The editors also seem to have a love affair with the 60's slide-film look -- and the odder (or blander) the image the better. Rare that I've ever seen an image in LFI that made a good marketing-centric impression on me.

    I'm not up on the specific LFI-Leica relationship re: ownership, but 'independent' or not, they in effect serve as an arms-length (it's not official Leica commentary) 'in your face' advertising tool for Leica.

    On your sample image xpixel - I agree. It's a horrid selling point and I don't think up to what the camera (or any MFDB) can do. The fact its' processed 8 ways from Xmas isn't helping matters. Reminds me of the bland, 'yeah, so..' female-boxer-in-Cuba shots they started the S2 promos with (which they STILL keep on the website).

    IF the camera is selling as well as some would like/believe/hope, there should be an decent installed base of users by now. If so, they need to pressure Leica to 'do a Hassy' and get a blog/gallery rolling showcasing actual user images that to do the thing justice - and keep any childish and catty comments, even tangential, about competitors for LUF. Just the images and the tech info/lighting setup.

    Sell your own product on it's own merits - bad mouthing the competition, even when done (not so) subtly like the C1/Adobe comments in LFI, just lowers you in the eyes of any intelligent bystander.

    Even if the comments, when you cut thru the spin, are technically accurate, it just makes you come across as defensive - and only caters to existing fans/customers vs any potential new ones of any intelligence. Have noticed Bron, whose gear I have every reason to like, in their blog doing the same with Profoto more and more - and Paul Buff from AB doing it ad naseum with anyone gear other than AB on the FM lighting forum. Not cool.
    Last edited by robmac; 15th May 2010 at 05:28.

  26. #26
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    Re: A few S2 things

    Hmmm. I always figured LFI was NOT owned by Leica since they had some pretty nice articles that were NOT just ads.

    Like they say, don't look a gift horse in the mouth!

    Now, what does frost me is say Motor Trend Magazine- they are owned by GM aren't they? (or is Ford?)

    On the C1 business, I believe some here have suggested Phase specifically tunes C1 to do nasty things with S2 files to keep thyem from competing with their backs. No one seems to have 'clean hands' anymore.

    Ah well, the modern world

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    Re: A few S2 things

    No idea on ownership of LFI - but it might as well be Leica owned. That said, if they were, they'd probably tone it down a bit.

    On C1 - as much as it might flatter 'some' people, I personally don't think Phase could be bothered to tweak C1 to 'poison' S2 files. No more so than Adobe , has as yet, made any effort to tweak LR massage the best out of them - the sales volume numbers don't (as yet) warrant the man/hr effort. Why Leica doesn't have a room full of folks churning them out (customized LR profiles) is another matter.

    Nice tech, but sadly I believe now what I believed the day of the announcement - unless Leica gets off the stick and PUSHES this thing with Marketing muscle (inclduing customer samples) and turbo charges their glacial product-line roll-out, it will simply get steamrolled out of the purchasing equation of the majority of non Leica-fan buyers as other players keep presenting new tech and increasingly tempting pricing policies at a quicker and quicker pace.

    Getting an impartial player to switch from their existing platform, which is already depreciating like a rock off a cliff but is also a known low-risk entity that delivers great files, into a higher risk platform like the S2 will take Leica making a serious effort to resoundingly answer the big question they all have - "why should I?".

    So far, from what I've seen they've yet to do that. The fallacy of "build it and they shall come" is as accurate today as it was when first coined.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: A few S2 things

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    Hmmm. I always figured LFI was NOT owned by Leica since they had some pretty nice articles that were NOT just ads.

    Like they say, don't look a gift horse in the mouth!

    Now, what does frost me is say Motor Trend Magazine- they are owned by GM aren't they? (or is Ford?)

    On the C1 business, I believe some here have suggested Phase specifically tunes C1 to do nasty things with S2 files to keep thyem from competing with their backs. No one seems to have 'clean hands' anymore.

    Ah well, the modern world
    Not sure who have may even thought of that one is absolutely the worst thing I have read. The S2 came out C1 version did not change when it did. It sucks than as it does now since DNG is seen as just another generic profile. The S2 has no profile for it with C1 from day one and most likely will never have one. Making a color profile will do no good as well. Artifacts and over sharpening will still occur plus other artifacts. Leica went to bed with Adobe and if there is any answer for the S2 files it will lie most likely there. Raw developer can work with them and I hear Phocus will also. Have to see what that will bring.

    Leica needs to seriously develop there very own software which IMHO is the best solution at this point for there S2. Now if I hear it is all contained in the DNG wrapper and needs no special software again from the marketing of this thing than i think they are sadly mistaken. I'm being very kind here in my words.

    No matter how the cheese is sliced the loss of C1 with the S2 is a major loss to Leica. Does not matter who is at fault the fault is it needs dedicated profiles and software just like any other digital back to get the very best out of it on a Pro level. Read that very carefully
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A few S2 things

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    I'm no expert on the currency markets but I would have thought that the recent (and substantial) drop in value of the Euro vs $US should have afforded Leica an opportunity to drop their prices and stimulate sales. I do like those images that xpixels has been posting lately. Not sure I can put it into words but they are special.
    yeah, the S2 is substantially cheaper in Europe now.
    anyone in the US would be something like $4000+ better off buying it there and having it shipped over.
    Leica need to re-adjust their prices, or do a rebate program (or a kit with a lens?)

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    Re: A few S2 things

    LFI is published by IDC Corporate Publishing GmbH, who also publish Victor Magazine. Unlike Motor Trend, which is clearly pro-car, LFI is pro-Leica.

    I doubt any car company ever owned Motor trend. I'm sure it's enough that they spent scads of money on ads. But not enough lately: the latest story I've seen is that they declared bankruptcy last year and the largest shareholder is Citibank. (Serves them right.)

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    Re: A few S2 things

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    ...Leica needs to seriously develop there very own software which IMHO is the best solution at this point for there S2. Now if I hear it is all contained in the DNG wrapper and needs no special software again from the marketing of this thing than i think they are sadly mistaken. I'm being very kind here in my words.

    No matter how the cheese is sliced the loss of C1 with the S2 is a major loss to Leica. Does not matter who is at fault the fault is it needs dedicated profiles and software just like any other digital back to get the very best out of it on a Pro level. Read that very carefully
    In my opinion, Leica does not need to develop their own software and I really hope they don't. This is not coming from a marketing type - it is coming from a customer who valued Leica's approach to not require camera specific software. I think Leica would be better served by working hard to develop S2 camera specific profiles for the various commercially available raw conversion software. Camera profiles should be much easier to do than a whole software package. I would much prefer Leica spend more time and energy developing cameras and lenses instead of software. In addition to Leica, I also shoot other camera brands and I don't want to use different raw conversion software for each brand of camera. Being able to use the same software for all of my cameras is a big plus for me.

    Also, I don't see Leica's choice to not depend on C1 as a "major loss" as you put it. I know you are a fan of C1 and I was too for approximately 5 years, but now I prefer Lightroom. I really appreciate the fact that Leica designed the S2 camera and lenses so "I" can chose which software to use.

    Guy, I respect your opinion, but, in this case, my opinion is different. Difference in opinions are what makes it possible for different manufacturers to stay in business and offer different products. That is a good thing.

  32. #32
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: A few S2 things

    Mark lets point out a few things almost every cam has dedicated software even Nikon and Canon. Hassy and Phase do within there programs. Now my reasoning is very simple and i know this all too well. Just for example bring a Phase file in LR and it is not very good at all and the same with Hassy files will always be better in Phocus. The point here is the software is finely tuned and dedicated to that sensor. This takes in many things that simply are overlooked or other programs can't do. It is not just about a better profile but a completely written program that squeezes every drop out of those files. This is in regard to tonal range, sharpness, noise, DR, color, color tone, corrections if needed, exif data, tethering, color editors, styles and the list goes on. Secondly if your going to spend that kind of money and all your competitors are providing dedicated software than they will have the advantage. Trust me there is nothing special whatsoever about a DNG file. It was a good concept from Adobe but almost all OEM's said sorry to bad we want our own and we want to put our own special sauce in our files.

    Now sure one can say it is a open format and any program can process it but it will never ever be as good as a dedicated software program BUILT for that cam and there algorithms and firmware. Example just noise control alone my Phase files as Sooooooooo much better in C1 than in LR or any other program. To me this kind of reasoning is on a Professional level that takes us past the general processing routines and profiles made for cams. Honestly IMHO this is where men go to work and the boys go play.

    Also don't you think you deserve a dedicated software to squeeze every drop out of the money you spent on it when everyone around you has there dedicated software. Maybe better said in all this it uses generic raw processing. Also from what I seen and by your own tests barrel distortion and light falloff and you don't have corrections for that when the OEM says this stuff is built into the design. Maybe it is and i believe they did BUT I did not see that.

    Just look at the M9 which IMHO looks far better from a C1 file than a LR files. Not saying C1 is the king of the roast but if your seeing differences coming from different programs than your not getting consistent or tuned images from the sensor. This is what Phocus for Hassy and C1 for Phase, Leaf Capture for Leaf, Sinar not sure of the name are all about. Even Nikon people see differences with Nikon Capture over other programs and Canon red(Color) has always been better out of DPP than any other program. Although this may have changed.

    Now lets be clear I love Leica products and owned many but I have always seen different quality coming from different software packages and after extensive testing the S2 is no different just like any other cam. For Leica to succeed with this S2 program they can't be like any other cam out there and be generic. Anyway I agree we certainly may have different opinions on this which is great but I will not buy into this system if I can't squeeze every drop out of that sensor with processing. Everything so far I have seen is a compromise between DR, Color artifacts , over sharpening, color , tone etc etc. Sure you can get one program and get the best you can think out of it but do you really know what you might be leaving behind.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A few S2 things

    btw.. there is a new S2 s-system lens voucher. exchange your existing lens for a new lens with a central shutter for the price difference... cool..:-)

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    Re: A few S2 things

    I haven't heard about this lens voucher. Thank you for letting us know.

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    Re: A few S2 things

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gowin View Post
    I haven't heard about this lens voucher. Thank you for letting us know.
    If you login to your Leica S2 account you will see the voucher...

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    Re: A few S2 things

    Thank you xpixel. I have downloaded my voucher.

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    Re: A few S2 things

    I do have to agree that I'm still waiting to see something compelling from the S2. I just don't see anything special about it at all compared to Phase or Hassey's contemporary offerings. And this is coming from a person with as much sunk into Leica M9 stuff as in MFD. I'm a huge Leica fanboy and always have been. I know the look when I see it.

    I've tried to track down as many S2 user images as I can, and being a new system there aren't many. Of what I have seen, there's a fair amount of that old slide film look, or like those Cuba launch images ... which looks like an action I have in Photoshop. Where are some images that aren't over-cooked so we can see what this pup can do?

    While I am an avid Lightroom user, I am so for reasons of time and centralized control when processing copious quantities of wedding images ... but do not delude myself that I'm extracting all I can from my files. All of my studied commercial work is done with dedicated software because the results are more proprietary profile critical.

    If Leica is to stay with LR ... and that could be a good thing ... then it will require some pretty sophisticated profiles be provided to Adobe ... probably lens specific if Leica could get over their marketing denial that the lenses are less than perfect.

    -Marc

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    Re: A few S2 things

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    While I am an avid Lightroom user, I am so for reasons of time and centralized control when processing copious quantities of wedding images ... but do not delude myself that I'm extracting all I can from my files. All of my studied commercial work is done with dedicated software because the results are more proprietary profile critical.
    -Marc
    This is true for me on a non-professional level too... and I'll take it a bit further by saying I also don't kid myself that I'm extracting all I can from my gear. I'm reminded of the famous gambler Amarillo Slim who beat Minnesota Fats at pool with a broom handle and Bobby Riggs at ping pong with a skillet. I think a lot of us would get more bang for the buck out of a good workshop.

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    Re: A few S2 things

    Interesting to see Erwin Putts' new article on the S2 lenses. Take or leave his "opinion" but he thinks they are a "quantum leap" in quality compared to other brands, and even better than the comparable M series lenses. Makes me wonder if software really is to blame for average (in class) file quality. Then again, maybe he hasn't actually measured the competitions equivalent focal lengths...

  40. #40
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A few S2 things

    I gotta say I really liked the glass I had on mine and I hope I made it clear at the time that in general I thought the S2 was really really good - it answered nearly all of my needs apart from T/S, which we are led to believe is in the works. As Jack says, I had sensor issues and after three different cameras each with their own 'issues' on that front, I gave up just because I needed a working system I could trust. But since then there has been no hint whatsoever that my experience was other than 'early adopter's risk'.

    $64k question is, 'would I go back' given that in the meantime I've upgraded to P65+, the new Phamy body and the nice new LS studio lens.

    Hmmm...

    If Lecia had the T/S lens out and it was good, I really think I might...I'd be giving up a bunch of pixels that I rarely need and regaining quite a lot of things I really liked a lot...

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    Re: A few S2 things

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    If Lecia had the T/S lens out and it was good, I really think I might...I'd be giving up a bunch of pixels that I rarely need and regaining quite a lot of things I really liked a lot...
    This quote (completely unrelated to camera gear) caught my eye... to the extent that I took the time to copy it down and email it to myself :

    "maybe the most elusive possession is contentment with what we have."

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    Re: A few S2 things

    Still - we all have to agree it is the sexiest 40 megapixel camera out there..hmm haven't bought a camera for nearly two years now..maybe it is time to add to my collection.. -

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    Re: A few S2 things

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    This quote (completely unrelated to camera gear) caught my eye... to the extent that I took the time to copy it down and email it to myself :

    "maybe the most elusive possession is contentment with what we have."



    Whereas I was more taken with the subject of an essay I had to write whilst studying philosophy at university, based on the famous quote from Mill:

    "it is better to be a human dissatisfied than a pig satisfied; better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied"

    Each to their own ;-)

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    Re: A few S2 things

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Still - we all have to agree it is the sexiest 40 megapixel camera out there..hmm haven't bought a camera for nearly two years now..maybe it is time to add to my collection.. -
    Peter, glad you took that quote to heart The S2 certainly quickens my pulse. I was just rationalizing it yesterday evening with my friend Roger telling him how, despite it's current shortcomings, I'd probably shoot it much more frequently than my current kit (due to weather sealing, etc.).

    Tim, I was a philosophy major in college (probably why quotes like that catch my attention). Please keep in mind I emailed it to myself because, next to Peter, Guy and a bunch of other guys on this forum, I need to keep reminding myself how what I've got is plenty good enough. And yet...

  45. #45
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: A few S2 things

    we just like to punish ourselves with more stuff we probably don't need but it is that instant gratification we get. Maybe I should change the MF title of this forum to that instead.

    Or just simply say "This is where the pigs live"
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A few S2 things

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    we just like to punish ourselves with more stuff we probably don't need but it is that instant gratification we get. Maybe I should change the MF title of this forum to that instead.

    Or just simply say "This is where the pigs live"
    actually now that the 35mm lens is out i am thinking of rebuying into the S system, even at the danger that some forum friends may think that i am mad. but maybe i wait for the frist pentax 645 tests.
    peter

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    Re: A few S2 things

    Then again, sometimes I wistfully cruise back over the past 10 years or so, and often think ... I wish I had all the money I've spent on this stuff, and just kept up with my Leica Ms ... like how I began.

    It'd be sort of like hitting the Lotto ... taking M9 snaps on the private beach of my Aruba Estate.

    -Marc

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    Re: A few S2 things

    Quote Originally Posted by markowich View Post
    actually now that the 35mm lens is out i am thinking of rebuying into the S system, even at the danger that some forum friends may think that i am mad. but maybe i wait for the frist pentax 645 tests.
    peter
    Na just bad meds. LOL

    Just kidding. But remember the forum does take donations instead.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: A few S2 things

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post

    Tim, I was a philosophy major in college (probably why quotes like that catch my attention). Please keep in mind I emailed it to myself because, next to Peter, Guy and a bunch of other guys on this forum, I need to keep reminding myself how what I've got is plenty good enough. And yet...
    Yup, me too, more than enough really but I always believe the line should be drawn a few yards ahead of where I currently am. Call me the Pig-Philosopher, who wants to have his cake and eat it!

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    Re: A few S2 things

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Na just bad meds. LOL

    Just kidding. But remember the forum does take donations instead.
    iknowiknowiknow...it sounds mad. but should i do so then i shall present you my rational on it.
    peter

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