Single Shot verses Multi-Shot: Test

[fotografz]

Took delivery of a CF/39 Multishot recently, and during the dealer training session in my studio we did some comparison shots. Thought some of you would be interested in the results.

This is about as perfect a test as can be done for comparisons ... literally everything is exactly the same. Same camera and lens, same sensor, same lighting. Nothing is touched. The only difference is selecting the Multi-Shot toggle button in the Phocus software to tell the camera to shoot Multi-Shot instead of Single Shot ... and hitting the shoot button on the software.

While I have commissioned many photographers for product work that used Multi-Shot cameras, this is the first time I've owned one and shot with it myself.

Side-by-side 200% crops tell the story. While the full sized shot of both look fine, pixel peeping reveals some interesting differences ... like the color on the pink dot.

Over-all, in many cases it probably wouldn't matter ... but I shoot a lot of fabrics for auto catalogs where both detail and accurate color is important ... or product details that includes tiny type, etc. Plus, on some jobs clients crop out pieces of a shot for use larger than initially intended.

Net impression ... I should have got into MS a long time ago.

-Marc

 

[Jeffg53]

Thanks, Marc. I've never seen the comparison before. Thanks heavens it only works tethered or I'd be contemplating where I could stump up the cash for one.

 

[H3dtogo]

here is a shot to explain the capabilities of an Imacon 384 back i took several years ago. The last image is the Microstep one, really impressive.

 

[routlaw]

The only difference is selecting the Multi-Shot toggle button in the Phocus software to tell the camera to shoot Multi-Shot instead of Single Shot ... and hitting the shoot button on the software....

Over-all, in many cases it probably wouldn't matter ... but I shoot a lot of fabrics for auto catalogs where both detail and accurate color is important ... or product details that includes tiny type, etc. Plus, on some jobs clients crop out pieces of a shot for use larger than initially intended.

Net impression ... I should have got into MS a long time ago.

-Marc

Marc this is pretty indicative of the test I have seen in the past too comparing MS vs Single shot capture. Its not just the additional detail but also the difference, or rather the added separation in hue and value. The images from the MS backs are more three dimensional as well. I debated purchasing one of these things long and hard before buying my Betterlight due to its versatility and added usability but still felt the BL had the slight advantage in its rather natural look if done right, not to mention the use of LF cameras. How much that difference would ever show up in print is debatable. I have printed some very large prints from the MS files, and they are awesome indeed.

Anyway good test, well done! I am surprised however to learn you have to be tethered to use the MS function on these backs.

Congrats on the new back.

Rob

 

[David K]

Boy I wish you hadn't posted these. Never gave any thought to the MS backs but man...they do some job. You've got the gears in my head turning

 

[Jack]

Awesome Marc -- the results are even better than I'd expect, like a 50% gain on resolution :thumbs:

 

[tetsrfun]

Amazing results with the MS. Does the MS in single shot mode have identical results to a single shot 39 MP back?

Steve

 

[Tex]

Marc, considering the enormous hourly depreciation of MF digital gear versus the relatively "really cheap" route of film (albeit more time consuming) with superior results (yes superior) what is the point?

As a casual shooter and not conversant with the tax advantages as you pros, I simply don't get it.

You spend more and get less.

If your goal is resolution, why waste money on a inferior solution.

 

[Uaiomex]

Wow, that's like going from 40 to 60 mp's. Truly an amazing difference. I can see something like latent moire is gone in the MS shot!
Eduardo

 

[David Grover / Phase One]

Thanks for the test Marc!

Perhaps we should pop this over on LL as a side note to their MS test.

 

[tjv]

Wow, pretty impressive difference. It's a real pity though that it's not really possible to realize this gain out in the field. Perhaps soon we will see an evolution in sensors that don't require multiple exposures to see the same definition in final files.
I imagine this MS stuff is like sexy dreams to a product photographer though.

 

[fotografz]

Wow, pretty impressive difference. It's a real pity though that it's not really possible to realize this gain out in the field. Perhaps soon we will see an evolution in sensors that don't require multiple exposures to see the same definition in final files.
I imagine this MS stuff is like sexy dreams to a product photographer though.

I think Jack probably gets this kind of resolution from his 60 meg back. So, it's already possible for the field.

I don't shoot landscape photography for big art prints like a lot of folks here do. This MS set-up will probably never leave my studio unless used in single shot mode as back-up to the H4D/40.

Some shooters that I read on the Hassey digital site do use these tethered to a laptop on location. From what I understand they occasionally shoot a single shot and a multishot and layer them ... then erase any movement areas of the 4 shot overlay. I've never tried doing that, and may never try it as I have no need.

-Marc

 

[fotografz]

Thanks for the test Marc!

Perhaps we should pop this over on LL as a side note to their MS test.

No thanks David.

I'l stay here where Jack and Guy keep things balanced and straight up

-Marc

 

[fotografz]

Wow, that's like going from 40 to 60 mp's. Truly an amazing difference. I can see something like latent moire is gone in the MS shot!
Eduardo

Yeah Eduardo, in my research of MS backs I got info from tech wizards responsible for doing copy work of Art pieces at a University, and beyond the gain in resolution they touted the color accuracy ... which is important for color matching the fabrics I shoot. Less anomalies makes that easier to accomplish.

-Marc

 

[T.Karma]

Yeah Eduardo, in my research of MS backs I got info from tech wizards responsible for doing copy work of Art pieces at a University, and beyond the gain in resolution they touted the color accuracy ... which is important for color matching the fabrics I shoot. Less anomalies makes that easier to accomplish.

-Marc

The MS pics also do give a better idea of how the tactile feeling of the fabrics will be. The textures look more defined and clear.

 

[David Grover / Phase One]

Some shooters that I read on the Hassey digital site do use these tethered to a laptop on location. From what I understand they occasionally shoot a single shot and a multishot and layer them ... then erase any movement areas of the 4 shot overlay. I've never tried doing that, and may never try it as I have no need.

-Marc

Never say never.

Think.. bottle and glass (as an example)

Shoot Champagne Bottle and empty glass in 4 shot (for quality)

Fill champagne glass, shoot several single shot... pick the best one, comp in PS in about 5 seconds!

D

 

[fotografz]

Marc, considering the enormous hourly depreciation of MF digital gear versus the relatively "really cheap" route of film (albeit more time consuming) with superior results (yes superior) what is the point?

As a casual shooter and not conversant with the tax advantages as you pros, I simply don't get it.

You spend more and get less.

If your goal is resolution, why waste money on a inferior solution.

I understand your points well Tex, and your passionate post deserves a considered response.

As I have said in the past ... If I were just shooting for myself, had all the time in the world, wasn't so lazy, and not addicted to immediate need gratification ... I'd still be shooting film. I only recently sold my Imacon 949 scanner as the last break from the hybrid world of fiim/digital, but can still do it if the bug bites me because the H2F takes film backs and I kept 3 of them just in case ... and my B&W darkroom is still fully intact and very well equipped (if everything hasn't rusted from lack of use). IF I ever do shoot more film I will do it the "purists" way ... in the darkroom making true silver prints by hand

Unfortunately, the rest of the world I live and work in has moved to digital.

Commercial clients expect immediate digital results to use for publication in what is now virtually 100% digital media, and most certainly are unwilling to pay enormous scanning fees to convert a slew of film shots into digital. A catalog of 100 shots could be at least $5000. to $6000. additional in scanning costs. Instead of paying for scans with a scanning service, they pay me a digital capture fee of up to $400. per day ... which helps pay for this stuff over the long haul. Plus, since the client sees the results on set and approves the shots, there are virtually no reshoots with all the attendant overages involved.

Most wedding clients want digital ... with stuff posted the next day on their social site or SmugMug, and half of them don't even want an album anymore. Personally, I think that is a shame as a family's archive is compromised ... but I don't make the rules, they do.

Lastly, for once, I avoided the big depreciation you mention and bought this used ... a Hasselblad refurbed back for less than 1/2 its original price including an extra year extended Depot Warranty ... it was a DB used by a Hassey tech guru that had less than 1,300 shots on it. :thumbs:

-Marc

 

[fotografz]

Boy I wish you hadn't posted these. Never gave any thought to the MS backs but man...they do some job. You've got the gears in my head turning

Abandon Hope, All Ye Who Enter Here!"


:ROTFL:

-Marc

 

[fotografz]

Awesome Marc -- the results are even better than I'd expect, like a 50% gain on resolution :thumbs:

They were better than I had hoped also Jack ... BUT, my Hassey rep warned me that is won't be this apparent in all shots depending on subject matter.

Honesty is the best policy. Yet, for a lot of my commercial subjects this will be a step up from what I was offering.

-Marc

 

[fotografz]

Amazing results with the MS. Does the MS in single shot mode have identical results to a single shot 39 MP back?

Steve

From my previous experiences using a H3D/39 and H3D-II/39 in the same environment and same subjects, I would say yes, they are identical. Same chip.

IMHO, the SS 39 backs from Hassey and Phase One are very, very good on their own, and more than enough for most subjects. As my rep said, "not until you view a side-by-side test like this, and zoom in for a 200% pixel Peeping exercise do you really see the substantual differences" ... differences that will show up even in reproduction with better clarity and color separation for critical works when needed.

-Marc