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Thread: What's a used MFDB really worth?

  1. #51
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    Re: What's a used MFDB really worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Camera gear pricing is weird and buying used from countries whose currency versus US fluctuates wildly can be an interesting hobby. I am sure I have raised a few eyebrows with the amount of gear I have purchased from forum members on GETDPI - I think I am net up around 20% on the balance of transactions over a couple of years lets say enough to pay for umm a anything selling from Hasselblad or Phase today at retail ..buying and selling camera gear is just another trade - you either know whats up or you dont..

    One thing for sure - no one who has forked out a lot of cashola for gear - ever ever ever criticises it much - well not whilst owning it ...


    thats why dispassionate traders who actually dont give a rats ...arent popular when they speak the plain trut about the gear BS - vested interests an all that -

    what is any piece of second hand gear worth?

    It all depends - but I cant see much practical difference between the so called top megapixel versions of today with the top megapixel versions of a year or two ago..

    then again I don't print larger than 2x4' or 3x4'...and I dont wanna play ( yet) in 60 megapixel land - lets wait for teh 100 megapixel new fagled must have crapola to come out..

    then I'll think about a 1000 shot used crapola 60 megapixel back for 20 cents in the dollar..

    get my drift?
    Drift gotten.

    Don't know about 20¢ on the dollar Peter ... 50¢ on the dollar is bad enough when we're talking $30. to $15K at rocket sled speed. ... but point well taken. I pity those that buy new and can't write it off ... big difference between business and pleasure ... depreciation softens the blow.

    I also think that other innovations come into play depending on your end purpose. For me, it was worth $3.5K more to go from the H3D-II/39 to the H4D/40 because of the True Focus and better high ISO performance when shooting candids hand-held on the fly. Otherwise what's the point? I passed on the H3D-II/50 meg over the H3D-II/39 meg because the camera was exactly the same.

    NO ONE critiques their current gear because those looking to competitively justify their own choices will jump on it like a Black Bird on a June bug ... It's just human nature.

    -Marc

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    Re: What's a used MFDB really worth?

    As another datapoint, I won an eBay auction yesterday for a P30+ Hassy H-mount version with a factory warranty good through 8/30/10, and my winning bid was $5,101.99. The seller was Calumet and the back came out of their rental fleet. The number of activations was higher than I would have preferred, but I'm a low-volume photographer (no doubt a result of my large-format background and mentality) and I don't expect to pile them on too rapidly from here, so I decided to take the gamble.

    I don't know whether this establishes a new market price or not, but this now makes two recent P30+ sales from Calumet for $5,100 or less... :-/

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    Re: What's a used MFDB really worth?

    Congrats on your purchase of a MFDB.

    From my (limited) perspective, as I read the boards, look at dealer lists, and scan eBay occasionally, it appears that there are at least two tiers of used backs. There are pampered kits, low actuations, maybe some warranty, no dings, etc. which sell for a premium; and there are vigorously used (though functionally fine) kits that are being upgraded by pros or rotated out of rental programs, etc. This is pretty normal in other types of gear as well.

    In my opinion, the high actuation counts is mostly immaterial, since there are few moving parts, other than indicating the number of times in and out of a bag, possible button condition, etc. Still, my personal preference is for new or low-use gear.

    It does appear to me that one can find some great deals for somewhat heavily used backs (which should still mostly perform fine), but like autos and other things, condition, warranty, service, etc. should be factored in – and is typically a personal matter as to how much weight it carries in terms of value.

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    Re: What's a used MFDB really worth?

    The asking price of a used IQ180 with VAW seems to be around the ~$16.5k mark - here's one, and here's another one...

    ...which basically means that anyone who buys one new for ~$43k loses >$26k as soon as they hand over their money - i.e. an instant 60% depreciation !

    Does anybody have Henrik Håkonsson's cell phone number ? If so, can you give him a call and let him know the economic realities of planet earth in 2015.

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    Re: What's a used MFDB really worth?

    phase one runs the same scheme as apple,
    they bring out a new product and though in the time of a year production of an item gets more and more cheap, the retail price remains the same.

    but the thing is, the iq180....is still a 80mp back, pretty neat. if the price is justified depends on you, but i definetely would choose the iq280 if i had the money // even though its also overpriced

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    Re: What's a used MFDB really worth?

    I bought a guaranteed refurb P65+ C mount with 1000 shots for 12500 euros by a PhaseOne dealer and sold it for 9500 euros 1 year later with 2500 shots and cosmetics still perfect. I needed cash. That's 2 euros per shot.
    I bought a sinar 54 lv for 4500 euros that I stll have. Made 3000 shots in 4 years. Would sell maybe for 2500 euros. That's 66 cents per shot.
    Per Mpixel it's the same 3 cents ;-)

    I made 10000 pictures with my Canon 5d2 that I sold 4 years later 2000 euros less than what I paid. That's 20 cents per shot.
    But maybe 1 euro per decent shot as with dslr I was shooting too many times the same subject and I don't like much the colors. So dslr is a bit more expensive than MFDB.

    I made 200 pictures with a sigma DP2m that I don't like much, on which I would loose 400 euros. That's 2 euros per shot, same as P65 ! So MFDB is not more expensive as compact cameras !

    Last week during holidays, I only used my business iphone 6 xl. Made 20 nice pictures for free. This is the game changer for sure.

    ;-)
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    Re: What's a used MFDB really worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    The asking price of a used IQ180 with VAW seems to be around the ~$16.5k mark - here's one, and here's another one...

    ...which basically means that anyone who buys one new for ~$43k loses >$26k as soon as they hand over their money - i.e. an instant 60% depreciation !

    Does anybody have Henrik Håkonsson's cell phone number ? If so, can you give him a call and let him know the economic realities of planet earth in 2015.
    A new IQ180 is technically $38k, but, speaking as a P1 dealer I'd make sure you were aware of alternatives before you bought a new IQ180, at least not without first presenting the better alternatives: new IQ280 for a bit more, or a Credo 80 or a refurbished IQ180 for a lot less.

    In 2014 we sold quite a few refurbished IQ180s, with full warranty, brand-new accessories, full dealer support, and availability to purchase via a 0% lease if desired. The price has varied across that year and depends somewhat on condition, mount, and what else we're bundling in, but is in no case anywhere remotely near $43k.

    We're also still doing a lot of upgrades from backs like the P45+ or P65+ to the IQ180. Such upgrades are very favorable compared to selling the P+ back and buying an IQ180 used, and has none of the hassle/risk of private sales.

    I'd expect the same for 2015.
    Last edited by dougpeterson; 5th January 2015 at 16:43.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: What's a used MFDB really worth?

    I purchased an IQ180 when they first were released which I still have and use - I have about 18,000 images taken to date -

    Yes the price was crazy, however the images set a new standard of excellence which makes it hard to backtrack.

    It is true that if I was a Nikon user (I have Canon) I would certainly buy a D800 and see how that performed - but I think I will just keep using the IQ180 until it stops working and then put it on the shelf as a reminder of how easy it is to spend a lot of money on photography.


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    Re: What's a used MFDB really worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by malmac View Post
    I purchased an IQ180 when they first were released which I still have and use - I have about 18,000 images taken to date -

    Yes the price was crazy, however the images set a new standard of excellence which makes it hard to backtrack.
    [...] I think I will just keep using the IQ180 until it stops working
    I suspect you'll be using it for a long time then .
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: What's a used MFDB really worth?

    When a Phase One dealer openly admits that it makes little sense to purchase a new IQ180, that only serves to validate the issue being raised.

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    Re: What's a used MFDB really worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    A new IQ180 is technically $38k...
    Ok, only 57%* depreciation as you walk out the door.

    50% ? 58%? 60% ? Whatever - these numbers reveal a serious disconnect some place; if I were in the business of making and selling this type of gear I'd want to know (quickly) why that is.

    Jim

    *I might have gotten the price right if I could find a price online. Still amazes me how difficult this is. A prize of a new IQ180 or $17k in cash to anyone who can (tip: take the money). Of course, I could pick up the phone - but that's soooo last century.

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    Re: What's a used MFDB really worth?

    Finding the price here in Sweden is easy, I see here on the webshop that it's 268700 SEK +VAT for a new IQ180, which corresponds to $33.4k. Oh... there's a "put in basket" button too!

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    Re: What's a used MFDB really worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    Finding the price here in Sweden is easy, I see here on the webshop that it's 268700 SEK +VAT for a new IQ180, which corresponds to $33.4k. Oh... there's a "put in basket" button too!
    That's the progressiveness of Sweden for you. And you're good at hockey. And soccer. Sheesh.

    Meantime we get stuck with 'call for pricing' and a button labeled 'contact us'. Personally, I think a 'haggle' button would be more appropriate.

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    Re: What's a used MFDB really worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    *I might have gotten the price right if I could find a price online. Still amazes me how difficult this is. A prize of a new IQ180 or $17k in cash to anyone who can (tip: take the money). Of course, I could pick up the phone - but that's soooo last century.
    Feel free to tweet at us, Facebook Message us, comment on our Instagram, email us, text my cell phone, or woof at us. Or ask on GetDPI or Luminous Landscape - I appear like batman when you put up the forum signal.

    Or of course, you can call .

    Or go old school and fax us - though, that gets converted into an email, and then directed to the appropriate person via Slack.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: What's a used MFDB really worth?

    Lots of discussion here on prices as well as challenges from the standpoint of a buyer regarding potential scams buying on ebay. I'd love to get some recommendations on where a seller should go to sell a good quality MFDB. I love my IQ180 and related gear (body, lenses, etc.) but don't use it much due to work, so have been considering selling it. Not sure how to go about it though without resorting to eBay. Any recommendations?

    Also not sure what prices to ask in hopes of setting a fair market price for buyer and seller (me).
    Will

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    Re: What's a used MFDB really worth?

    Do look at the for sale section here and at luminous landscape and try to find past prices. It's also possible to look for past prices on ebay. Looking at several sources you should get a good estimate of what it's worth.

    I haven't bought and sold as high end backs as an IQ180, but at least for midrange backs my experience from the getdpi and lula forums is that things are sold at the "right" price, ie fair for both seller and buyer, as these forums have very well-informed buyers and sellers and people care about their reputation.

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    Re: What's a used MFDB really worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by WWLEE View Post
    Lots of discussion here on prices as well as challenges from the standpoint of a buyer regarding potential scams buying on ebay. I'd love to get some recommendations on where a seller should go to sell a good quality MFDB. I love my IQ180 and related gear (body, lenses, etc.) but don't use it much due to work, so have been considering selling it. Not sure how to go about it though without resorting to eBay. Any recommendations?

    Also not sure what prices to ask in hopes of setting a fair market price for buyer and seller (me).
    For any seller, I think the most important factor is setting the right asking price. In my opinion, for digital-backs this is very very tricky. Relatively low sales volumes and non-disclosure of recent final sale prices makes it hard to establish a true-market-value.

    It also does not help that digital-backs have very high original prices and sellers have a very tough time determining the true extent of depreciation. Its a losing battle against constant technological updates whenever a higher mega-pixel back arrives, or a new CMOS back, or a newer back that has better usability, or some other feature. As someone who has very recently bought a pre-owned Credo 60, I have keenly observed prices and have noticed the prices to be trending lower, rather steeply.

    I have bought and sold lots of photography equipment on eBay as well as various photography forums. I feel both avenues are viable. The key is price - any item sells if it is priced well, whether that is on eBay or a forum.

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