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Thread: P25 at work

  1. #1
    Senior Member irakly's Avatar
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    P25 at work

    shot it this evening. C645/P25, 2/80 wide open ISO200

  2. #2
    Senior Member irakly's Avatar
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    Re: P25 at work

    same thing, ISO800

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    Senior Member PSon's Avatar
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    Re: P25 at work

    Love these images!

    Best Regards,
    -Son
    ALPA (MAX, STC, TC) | CAMBO (Actus DB2, WRS-AE) | CONTAX | HASSELBLAD | LEICA | DB (CFV-16, CFV-39, IQ180, IQ360, IQ3100, P45+) | Lens (Canon, Fujinon, Leica, Nikon, Pentax, Rodenstock, Schneider, Zeiss)

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: P25 at work

    Did we add the noise in the ISO 800 shots for effect. I'm am looking to see how this back handles ISO 800
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: P25 at work

    The P25 I never used at 800. In fact even 400 was marginal.
    the current "+" (plus) backs are much better I would guess at LEAST one stop (I had P45 for a yr before P45+ and used 400, then 800 in P45+ became useful.

    P30+ looks as if 1600 is quite usefull

    This shows that pixel size isnt6 everything-it is how the site uses its space.

    Also, watch out for comparisons in bright light. Thssinar shots may have more noise if the shot was NOT wide open; wide open means fastest shutter means less noise in many cases, since the 'signal' that is the light from the lens is so strong it overwhelms the noise.

    all noise tests should be done at 1/125 or even 1/30 for WA lens.

    Victor

  6. #6
    Senior Member irakly's Avatar
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    Re: P25 at work

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Did we add the noise in the ISO 800 shots for effect. I'm am looking to see how this back handles ISO 800
    no, did not add anything. just enhanced the noise by boosting blacks and fill. at its defaults settings the image was much smoother.

  7. #7
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: P25 at work

    That is what i was wondering if the out of camera raw is smoother looking. I would love to see a test image at that speed or a raw to play with to see what it is doing. I will get a chance to test the Phase backs in two weeks so don't go out of your way to get one to me see.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  8. #8
    thsinar
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    Re: P25 at work

    Victor,

    the test I have posted was shot a f5.6 and 1/40, not faster. It was not under bright light, but still pretty dark in this part of the garden, with only some light rays hitting the plant (look at the background, how little light there is, and I had to increase the midtones).

    Of course, smaller apertures means longer exposure times, which in turn means "more" noise. But noise DOES NOT depend ONLY on the exposure time: there is one thing I have forgot to mention, the temperature.
    Currently is the summer season in Thailand, the temperature this morning was 31 C, at 6.30 am (yes, 31C!) ---> so you could also say, that this image would have less noise if shot at a cooler place!

    Best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    The P25 I never used at 800. In fact even 400 was marginal.
    the current "+" (plus) backs are much better I would guess at LEAST one stop (I had P45 for a yr before P45+ and used 400, then 800 in P45+ became useful.

    P30+ looks as if 1600 is quite usefull

    This shows that pixel size isnt6 everything-it is how the site uses its space.

    Also, watch out for comparisons in bright light. Thssinar shots may have more noise if the shot was NOT wide open; wide open means fastest shutter means less noise in many cases, since the 'signal' that is the light from the lens is so strong it overwhelms the noise.

    all noise tests should be done at 1/125 or even 1/30 for WA lens.

    Victor
    Last edited by thsinar; 2nd May 2008 at 05:31.

  9. #9
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: P25 at work

    Thierry in essence one would expect the same performance from the 54 i believe it is.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  10. #10
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: P25 at work

    Yes, well the shots look fine- better than I would have expected.
    I look forward to testing myself, though I am not one to 'push' things. These 25,000 ISO shots on Canons and Nikons (I have been cautioned not to combine to Canikon! ) seem a curiosity. More like shots I would take with my wifes Digilux!

    anyway, sould be interesting to see the 75 vs say the P45+

  11. #11
    thsinar
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    Re: P25 at work

    Basically yes: it has the same sensor electronic board.

    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Thierry in essence one would expect the same performance from the 54 i believe it is.

  12. #12
    Senior Member irakly's Avatar
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    Re: P25 at work

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    That is what i was wondering if the out of camera raw is smoother looking. I would love to see a test image at that speed or a raw to play with to see what it is doing. I will get a chance to test the Phase backs in two weeks so don't go out of your way to get one to me see.
    in general, colour images at iso800 suck no matter what shutter speed. B&W may be quite interesting, though

  13. #13
    Senior Member EH21's Avatar
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    Re: P25 at work

    Irakly,
    Thanks for posting these - and I agree, the only thing you can do with ISO 800 on the non plus phase backs is make a "creative" black and white. It looks okay in a small webfile but how do you feel about that noise on a print or looking at it bigger?
    Eric

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    Senior Member irakly's Avatar
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    Re: P25 at work

    Quote Originally Posted by EH21 View Post
    Irakly,
    Thanks for posting these - and I agree, the only thing you can do with ISO 800 on the non plus phase backs is make a "creative" black and white. It looks okay in a small webfile but how do you feel about that noise on a print or looking at it bigger?
    Eric
    it prints just fine. actually, looks better than here, because scaling down and jpeg compression ruin structure of the noise.

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    Super Duper
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    Re: P25 at work

    Who on earth would want these images to be smooth and perfect?

    They are evocatively gothic. I love the crushed blacks. The discort of noise (or film grain) has the grit of reality to it. It's the way humans actually feel.

    Maybe it's time for some folks to go shoot some pushed tri-X, and take a break from pixel peeping : -)

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    Re: P25 at work

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Who on earth would want these images to be smooth and perfect?

    They are evocatively gothic. I love the crushed blacks. The discort of noise (or film grain) has the grit of reality to it. It's the way humans actually feel.

    Maybe it's time for some folks to go shoot some pushed tri-X, and take a break from pixel peeping : -)
    There you go again Marc! As soon as you get us hooked on MF digital based on your camera porn you now want to drive us back to Film. What's a lad to do LOL

    Woody

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    Super Duper
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    Re: P25 at work

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    There you go again Marc! As soon as you get us hooked on MF digital based on your camera porn you now want to drive us back to Film. What's a lad to do LOL

    Woody
    Horses for courses Woody. It's why you have a M8, a D3 , and now a MF digital kit.

    However, I've found that what seems a disadvantage for MF backs ... noise at ISO 800 or 1600 can be turned into an advantage ... as Irakly has so aptly demonstrated.

    Frankly, I doubt I'll use the D3 below ISO 800 very often ... more like 1600, 2000 and up. Hardly a curiosity ... a real low light candid photography tool.

  18. #18
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: P25 at work

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Who on earth would want these images to be smooth and perfect?

    They are evocatively gothic. I love the crushed blacks. The discort of noise (or film grain) has the grit of reality to it. It's the way humans actually feel.

    Maybe it's time for some folks to go shoot some pushed tri-X, and take a break from pixel peeping : -)
    You know what i am after. Not these kinds of shots. LOL I will use a M8 for this or push any MF over the edge. I'm just trying to avoid the 10k lighting package
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: P25 at work

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Horses for courses Woody. It's why you have a M8, a D3 , and now a MF digital kit.

    However, I've found that what seems a disadvantage for MF backs ... noise at ISO 800 or 1600 can be turned into an advantage ... as Irakly has so aptly demonstrated.

    Frankly, I doubt I'll use the D3 below ISO 800 very often ... more like 1600, 2000 and up. Hardly a curiosity ... a real low light candid photography tool.
    Marc

    couldn't agree more in a more serious vein. I think the biggest advantage of the D3 is that it allows usage of lenses at more realistic f stops of 4.0. In a different thread I made a plea for Nikon to come out with a Nanocrystal, VRII 70 200 4.0 and an update to the long in the tooth 80-400 VR with a 100-400 4.0 VRII. These lenses would be considerably lighter, smaller, and if market forces dictate cheaper than any 2.8 version. With the power of the D3 one to one and one half stops of glass is less impacting because of High ISO performance than the price, weight and size penalties of 2.8 glass. JMHO YMMV

    Woody

  20. #20
    Senior Member irakly's Avatar
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    Re: P25 at work

    woody, it is not the shutter speed advantage that we use fast lenses for. shallow dof capability of large aperture optics is more valuable than portability and affordability.

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    Re: P25 at work

    Irakley

    Absolutely valid point. But I still think a 4.0 lightweight lens for landscape use where the typical shots are at very small apertures is a valid part of the portfolio of Nikon lenses. I have the 70-200 2.8 zoom and love what it does but would buy the 4.0 version in a heartbeat.

    woody

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    Re: P25 at work

    Irakly,
    I like your vision as shown in these shots. MF or otherwise, you are a talented photographer and it's of interest to see how you utilize your gear...

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