Site Sponsors
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 55

Thread: choosing a new MFD system

  1. #1
    Member VICTOR BT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    75
    Post Thanks / Like

    choosing a new MFD system

    hi all,
    this is my first post here, im an israeli art photographer, more about me on my website.

    im planning to get into the all new digital medium format system for my upcoming grand-scale project. soon i will be testing the options with dealers of hasselblad, and pahse-one/leaf here in israel.
    most likely, the digital back will be the 40 megapix (mainly due to the huge extra cost for higher-res options).

    my prior experience with digital backs is mainly with leaf aptus.
    i understand the most current generation of backs is further improved, in sensor as well as overall system integration including software.

    my interests:
    - hassleblad h4d-40
    - phase p40+
    - leaf aptus-8

    im open minded here without any primary preferences among the choices.
    in fact, i am sure i would be glad to have any of them, but since there are choices and the systems cost tons of $, i want to study the systems, test them and only them choose what might be a better choice for me, wether it is image quality or usability/comfort with the camera and the workflow afterwards....

    worth mentioning, hassleblad H is actually unfamiliar to me, but HTS 1.5 is a very tempting accessory (with addition of 28mm), that i would like to have. i will not have this accessory for testing, so forum members opinion who work with it is very welcomed... if not HTS 1.5, i will be considering to couple the alpa camera with one lens to whatever system i choose.

    any thoughts ?
    what to pay attention during the testing ?
    is the HTS 1.5 a match to dedicated WA alpa, not only in comfort of being part of the system but in image quality too ?
    which one of the camera is more prone to artifacts, especially things like moire etc ?

    thanks, victor

  2. #2
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    What is the URL for your website?

    I use the HT/1.5 on a H4D/40 ... it is excellent ... but IMO, no camera lens set-up will equal the IQ of a tech camera with HD optics like an ALPA.

    The Phase and Leaf options use a Dalsa sensor, and the H4D/40 uses a Kodak sensor ... so trying each is a good idea to see which you prefer.

    Some of the nifty features of the Hasselblad H4D/40 may be less useful for you. A Leaf Shutter system for all focal lengths is nice if you use studio strobes or shoot outside in brighter lighting conditions ... and the True Focus ability for off-center recomposing focusing is nice when shooting people, especially working hand-held. But if you don't shoot that way, those features are useless or lessened.

    IMO, the Leaf or Phase options are more suited for untethered tech camera field work ... the backs are powered separately rather than by the camera grip battery of the H system ... which then requires a separate power source when the back is removed from an untethered H camera.

    Best of luck!

    -Marc

  3. #3
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Marc covered the most salient points very well. The only thing I would add is maybe look at the file conversion software for each as well to make sure you get along with its workflow and UI. A minor point that may or may not be a consideration for you, is that the "pro" version of Phase's C1 conversion software and Hassy's Phocus 2.5 will convert raw files from most popular DSLR's too.

    Bottom line, if you stick to one of the major brands you listed, you can hardly go wrong -- the image quality results will all be superb while the probative differences are mostly related to use: ergonomics, specific features, camera and back UI or software based.

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    561
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Hi Jack,

    Please note Phocus 2.5 also supports conversion from most popular brands as well.

    David

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    284
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Hi Jack,

    Please note Phocus 2.5 also supports conversion from most popular brands as well.

    David
    Yes it does... but if you use a Leica S2 DNG and want to save as 16bit tif you have a black file... maybe you have a solution?

  6. #6
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Hi Dave,

    I was not aware of that, so thanks for pointing it out! I've edited my post above to include it for thread posterity

    Thanks,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  7. #7
    Subscriber Member billbunton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Alamogordo, NM
    Posts
    49
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    10

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Hi Jack,

    Please note Phocus 2.5 also supports conversion from most popular brands as well.

    David
    But only on the Mac, right?

  8. #8
    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    1,168
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    38

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Hi Victor and welcome on board,

    you can guess what my choice would be;-)

    talking about software, the Leaf will tether to both Capture One and Leaf Capture and in addition the files can be processed in many converters including some preliminary/ limited support in phocus 2.5.
    If you are looking for references from fellow photographers in Israel who use their backs on Alpa cameras (and other platforms) please let me know

    shabat shalom

    yair
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

  9. #9
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,275
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    7

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Quote Originally Posted by VICTOR BT View Post
    is the HTS 1.5 a match to dedicated WA alpa, not only in comfort of being part of the system but in image quality too ?
    Nothing matches the image quality of a dedicate WA camera (Alpa/Cambo/Horseman/Sinar) with Rodenstock or Schneider glass. These solutions are LESS easy to use, but are the absolute top of image quality in the current marketplace. I do not think you will find a single member of the board who has used a dedicated WA camera who would say that any other type of camera will match that quality - though you find many who would warn you that it's not an easy point-and-shoot setup and requires a user that wants quality much more than convenience :-). When mounting to the tech camera the Leaf and Phase One have their own built in battery which means you wouldn't need an external battery or hard drive to power the back.

    [Leaf shutter only] vs. [focal plane shutter only] vs. [leaf or focal plane shutter] is a very big decision often overlooked by photographers. It effects lens size/weight/price/maximum-shutter-speed/maximum-sync-speed/shutter-vibration and diffraction limitations. Each type of shutter has pros and cons and a system which lets you use either provides enormous flexibility. See this recent post for more details.

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
    __________________
    Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
    Phase One, Leaf, Cambo, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
    National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
    Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up
    RSS Feed: Subscribe
    Buy Capture One at 10% off
    Personal Work

  10. #10
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austria, close to Vienna
    Posts
    3,867
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    Nothing matches the image quality of a dedicate WA camera (Alpa/Cambo/Horseman/Sinar) with Rodenstock or Schneider glass. These solutions are LESS easy to use, but are the absolute top of image quality in the current marketplace. I do not think you will find a single member of the board who has used a dedicated WA camera who would say that any other type of camera will match that quality - though you find many who would warn you that it's not an easy point-and-shoot setup and requires a user that wants quality much more than convenience :-). When mounting to the tech camera the Leaf and Phase One have their own built in battery which means you wouldn't need an external battery or hard drive to power the back.

    [Leaf shutter only] vs. [focal plane shutter only] vs. [leaf or focal plane shutter] is a very big decision often overlooked by photographers. It effects lens size/weight/price/maximum-shutter-speed/maximum-sync-speed/shutter-vibration and diffraction limitations. Each type of shutter has pros and cons and a system which lets you use either provides enormous flexibility. See this recent post for more details.

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
    __________________
    Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
    Phase One, Leaf, Cambo, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
    National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
    Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up
    RSS Feed: Subscribe
    Buy Capture One at 10% off
    Personal Work
    Doug,

    need to jump in here. While I am absolutely with you WRT high IQ of Tech cameras and dedicated lenses, the HTS together with selected Hasselblad lenses comes pretty close to this IQ - I would even dare say it tops in some situations - but I am also pretty convinced that these differences are very little if they are there.

    Issue is that it does not offer the flexibility of a Tech cam and never will, but the bonus is it is much easier to use, especially in combination with Phocus.

    So if you use the H system then the HTS is a good investment for tilt and shift, especially with lenses like the 28 or 100. On the other side if you need the higher flexibility of a tech cam, then there are adaptors for all (at least most) tech cams for Hasselblad backs. This means if one has a H system this does not exclude him by any means from using a tech cam.

    Everything is open

  11. #11
    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    1,168
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    38

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Worth noting that the shortest effective focal length with the HTS and a 40MP chip is 55mm so wide but not that wide...

    If wide-angle and perspective control are your thing then a pancake camera is much smaller and lighter than an SLR, especially when adding lenses, adapters etc.

    Yair
    Last edited by yaya; 4th June 2010 at 11:05.
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

  12. #12
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austria, close to Vienna
    Posts
    3,867
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    Worth noting that the shortest effective focal length with the HTS and a 40MP chip is 55mm so wide but not that wide...

    If wide-angle and perspective control are your thing then a pancake camera is much smaller and lighter than an SLR, especially when adding lenses, adapters etc.

    Yair
    The 28 in combination with the HTS results in a 42mm in combination with a 39 or 50MP back. I would see this not as bad, given that the most popular lenses on tech cameras are also around 40mm.

    The advantage of the HTS is that it is fully integrated in the H system and Phocus, so color shift, vignetting etc. are pretty effectively controlled. And very simple, which is what I like (prefer) in daily operation.

    You are right, if you do not need the MP count of MFDBs, then a Canon or Nikon TS solution is much more preferable WRT smaller and lighter and thus easier to handle equipment.

  13. #13
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    I'm slammed at the moment with a work deadline and just finished processing 200 images out of 400 from a P40+ back working in c1 making master tifs and jpegs for a client and all I can say is get a 40mpx back by whatever OEM turns you on. The files are just screaming with detail and plenty of power to go way up on the print side of the house and to handle any needs you may need. I'm in heaven with my system and after 35 years shooting could not be happier. Okay if clients actually paid on time it would be nice and more of them

    Now as far as who to buy from I went Phase and it has been a very happy choice for me. Just do your homework and try them out before you start writing checks. BTW welcome to GetDPI and there is plenty of threads on all of these systems. Find some time and get reading some of them and also check out our review section as well.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  14. #14
    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    1,168
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    38

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    You are right, if you do not need the MP count of MFDBs, then a Canon or Nikon TS solution is much more preferable WRT smaller and lighter and thus easier to handle equipment.
    By Pancake I was referring to the likes of ALPA, Cambo WD-S etc.

    An ALPA SWA with 3 Schneider XL lenses takes less space than even an FF DSLR let alone an MF SLR (and the HTS is like adding a mini tech camera...)

    Oh and 28mmX1.5X1.3 (crop of the 40MP chips) =54.6 BTW and and you also loose 1.3 stops:-)
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    561
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    It's funny, I never feel the need to pick holes in a competitors product...

    Thanks Peter for giving your opinion on the HTS and it's real world use.

    I guess they just feel threatened. :-)

    The HTS is the only tilt shift solution that automatically writes tilt, shift and rotational data into the image file for automatic corrections of vignetting, CA and distortion. A huge time saver and very convenient!

    Certainly testing one would be a good move.

    Best,



    David

  16. #16
    tetsrfun
    Guest

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    It's funny, I never feel the need to pick holes in a competitors product...
    ********
    It must be a generational thing...I am old and I find the "hole pickers" incredibly obnoxious and irritating but most feel that the "hole pickers" are great guys..so I guess that I have been left behind by the internet marketing "age".

    Steve

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    284
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Quote Originally Posted by billbunton View Post
    But only on the Mac, right?
    Yes... 2.5 is Mac only...

  18. #18
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    It's funny, I never feel the need to pick holes in a competitors product...
    I think there is maybe a bit of "over sensitivity" here regarding "brand" discussions. Reminds me of having to adhere to political correctness when having discussions at a cocktail party -- I'd hope we'd be beyond that here when we're trying to learn about gear...

    Who exactly "picked holes" and in what product?

    If by chance you were referring to the HTS comment about effective focal on a crop sensor camera, I think that was a reasonable point to bring up especially when the OP asked specifically about it. The combined effects of cropped sensor and HTS magnification *might* be a valuable revelation for a new user if they weren't otherwise aware of it.

    Is it also now off limits point out that any extender, including the HTS, also cuts light transmission?
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  19. #19
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Quote Originally Posted by tetsrfun View Post
    It's funny, I never feel the need to pick holes in a competitors product...
    ********
    It must be a generational thing...I am old and I find the "hole pickers" incredibly obnoxious and irritating but most feel that the "hole pickers" are great guys..so I guess that I have been left behind by the internet marketing "age".

    Steve
    LOL!

    I find it obnoxious and irritating also ... so it's the "old folks home" for us Steve.

    Not only am I old, I'm lazy as a hound dog on a sweltering August day ... I happen to like the HTS/1.5 because I'll actually use it ... it's so no-brainer and easy to take with ... no fuss, no muss just put it on and shoot. Take it off and shoot something else with a tele. It folds down small enough to put it in a side pocket of the bag.

    It's like double mint gum: It's two cameras ... two cameras ... two cameras in one

    -Marc

  20. #20
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Geez only us old timers remember that jingle. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  21. #21
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Geez only us old timers remember that jingle. LOL
    Actually, I think it was for a mint, not gum ... breath mint and candy ... or something like that.

    Now back to looking for my &@#%$&! battery chargers for the H4D ... looked everywhere for over an hour ... GRRRRRR .... another symptom of a dried up brain.


  22. #22
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Certs -- achieved marketing legend by claiming it was a candy and a breath mint when they adopted the jingle, "It's two, two -- two mints in one!"
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  23. #23
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    I was thinking double mint gum with twins in the ads.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  24. #24
    Member VICTOR BT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    75
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    @ marc
    here's my website url.. i tried to edit my signature, but i see it does not work (show up).
    web.mac.com/victorbt

    @ guy, about the forum
    i have joined here, cause this is the biggest data-base and discussion especially for medium format on the internet that i have found. so, after reading some stuff here (like yours and jacks about leica s2 and phase stuff, or marc's about h4d impressions) i thought it is the best place to ask questions about what interests me.

    @ yair
    yes i know the leaf software, it works great, files are super, and i actually liked the interface/workflow. leaf is israeli, and has that service advantage, from maker and from dealer... so it seems to be the most comfortable place....
    i do have a question to u about afi camera, pm will be sent...

    @ jack
    yes i know, any of those 40mp backs will be just great, but since there are choices and nuances and high costs, a little bit good sportive mood will do no harm when doing prior studies :-)
    i am also aware about the effective focal lenghts when using hts1.5, saw it on hasselbald site/brochure. 28mm and 80mm on the chip size of 40mp is ok. just a question wether the quality is good enough (even if i dont expect it to be like alpa+35mm). it is also should be noticed that 28mm and hts 1.5 is not far from the price of alpa+lens, so the price is not a main issue.

    @ doug ptomsu and marc
    so the alpa or hts issue is just about:
    is the hts image quality satisfying (comparable to alpa with scheider/rodenstok lens), especially with wide angle lens, and is it that much more comfortable to use compared to alpa (swa probably) ?
    i like the idea of hts, and the idea of weist level finder (although it cannot go vertical), but im not sure when i have the opportunity to check it in real. seems i can only test the h4d body with 80 mm lens, which is great too, cause at least i can get familiar with hasselblad camera....

    a question about Kodak vs Delsa sensor that mentioned in the posts...
    what is it about, one has micro lenses, the other does not? what else ?
    i want it to go well with high ISO, i want it to print well at big sizes. it is not a studio only camera, it will be my primary camera - general purpose, do everything stuff - from spontaneous photography to stages/composed stuff, from portraits to architecture etc, from art projects to commercial fashion and other stuff... the only thing i do not expect those 40mp cameras to be is: not super fast nikon/canon (dont care about it), not a pocket camera (that can always be at hand) and not a sexy camera to load real b/w film in it...

  25. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    All the backs are excellent but each has its quirks.
    I think dealer support is a very important issue - and perhaps Leaf has the advantage for you in Israel - as an ex owner the file quality wasn't the reason I switched.
    If you want to use a technical camera - with tilt and shift - as an Alpa owner and user I would say - there are better choices.If you want just some shift - then Alpa is excellent and I would go for an Alpa Max.
    If you are intending to use the digital back on a technical camera - you MUST test for yourself - and do use all the software programs in the test as well as white balance, color shift and other related issues -do some research regarding tech camera workflow and specifically look carefully into pixel pitch choice - if you really care about ultimate image quality from back and lenses.

    Good Luck.

  26. #26
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Victor, the URL for your website doesn't work. If it did, it would show up as a link with-in the post above. It is difficult to discuss options without seeing your work. Simply open your website in a separate window and select/drag the address to paste it in the text box of a post on this thread (like I did below).

    RE: the HTS/1.5 ... yes, the IQ is satisfying in that it is as good as when not using it ... I see no significant impact on IQ from using it. I posted examples of using the HTS/1.5 with shifts to create panoramic landscapes:

    http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/brow...r&imageuser=58

    There is also a thread discussing the HTS with corner detail shots from these panos ... but, being brain dead, I can't locate it.

    I also use a Rollie Xact 2 with Rodenstock and Schneider optics .... and as mentioned, no MFD SLR is quite as good. Yet, it is a matter of what you will actually use ... the HTS is so easy... easy to carry, easy to put on, easy to focus, easy to make T/S corrections... and the Phocus software does all the image corrections, so micro lenses basically have zero effect when tilting and shifting ... but in turn allow higher ISOs at full resolution. I not only use the HTS in studio ... I also got it to do portraits and macro with tubes using selective focus. I have less and less reason to drag out the Rollei view camera and deal with the slower work flow since getting the HTS.

    For me the question was one of diversity of shooting situations and flexibility/mobility of the camera system because, like you, I shoot all sorts of stuff with MFD ... even weddings. The 2nd and 4th images on my home page for weddings was recently done with the H4D which, with True Focus/Focus Lock for off-center compositions while shooting on the fly, is actually approaching the operational speed of my 35mm DSLRs. Slower in some areas, but faster in others.

    http://www.fotografz.com/

    In fact, a majority of the home page slideshow presentation was done with Medium Format either digital or film. This of course is lost with a sub 1 meg web image, but the prints are another matter altogether

    All of the contemporary MFD systems have their pluses and a few minuses ... but a lot less minuses than in the past ... all of these systems have improved significantly in the past few years to the point that it is a struggle to see the difference in end results when applied by someone who knows what they are doing with the gear and the software. Still, were I you ... I'd seriously consider the Leaf options because of the support.

    -Marc

  27. #27
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter, Fla.
    Posts
    1,967
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Copying and pasting the URL that Victor posted opens up his website without any problems for me (using Safari).

    Victor, welcome to the forum. Whatever you decide you've come to the right place to get informed, helpful advice. As a former Leaf user, now shooting Sinar, I don't have specific advice on the new offerings from Phase/Leaf/Hassy but can tell you that the guys here who use them know what they are talking about. I learned a lot about what I like and don't like in MF by handling and shooting with the kits... personal, subjective stuff that might not apply to anyone else but would certainly be relevant for me. Good luck with your choice and I hope you will post some images here as well. I enjoyed your Israeli Women portfolio and think you have a very good eye. You'll get great results whatever you decide.

  28. #28
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Okay on espresso number two. Some things to consider maybe not exactly in order but stuff you want to look at between systems.

    Body handling and feature sets, do your hands fit it okay and can you get to the controls easily when running at full speed. Viewfinder give you the correct eyesight and magnification for your eyes. 40 mpx sensors will be a crop sensor and that shows up in the finder. You really have two choices here the Phase DF and Hassy H body. Hassy will only take Hassy backs , Phase DF will take Phase and leaf backs.

    Speaking of backs I maybe only looking at 3 backs . Hassy , leaf and Phase. Now i know I left out Sinar here but not knowing the full story anymore they have sort of left the market with the lose of the HY6 . Now I know someone will correct me here on Sinar and it's future and that is fine . I lost touch what is going on with them so maybe someone can help. Here leaf maybe a good choice since you are in Israel so do check out the dealer and support network.

    Batteries. Hassy is a proprietary one and in a pinch may not be able to walk into a local store and get one. Leaf and Phase use general video cam batteries and are pretty easy to get world wide. On a tech camera you Leaf and Phase will have a advantage since the battery is on the back itself. Downside on Leaf and Phase or I should say the DF body is it takes AA batteries so you know have two battery types and two chargers but AA are easily available anywhere. Obviously a plus and a minus on Leaf and Phase back/body. Easy to get almost anywhere but issue is two types. Hassy batteries obviously one type but you will want to carry several with you.

    Lenses All hassy lenses are leaf shutters with a maximum of 1/800's of a second plus syncs at 1/800 also. Plus and minus here all lenses are leaf style but you do have a limit on shutter speed. Phase lenses are all focal lenses with a maximum shutter of 1/4000 and sync at 1/125 but they do have 3 leaf lenses today 55,80 and 110 and more to follow down the road that will sync as high as 1/1600 with P40 and P65 backs.
    Have to weigh your options here . Both systems will also take Hassy V lenses as well with adapters.

    Both systems have a wide range of glass as well. Hassy and phase are the only systems that have a 28mm for me essential others maybe not. Hassy does have a 30-90 zoom today and we are still waiting on Phase in this area. Hassy also has the 1.5T/S option as well. Will Phase have these in the future or something similar? I hope so and will know maybe at Photokinia.

    Software . Here you really need to try Phocus and C1. I can onlt speak of c1 and it rocks but I hear good things on Phocus. You can get free software to download as a program or trails to give them a whirl. We can provide raws if needed to play with.

    Tech cameras obviously you can use any back here but Leaf and Phase maybe a easier setup with there own battery attached otherwise they all work great tethered to there software programs.

    Enough for now but again you have weigh stuff out. Leaf and Phase I should mention are owned by Phase so many similar features on these two systems and share software and such. They do basically use the same Dalsa sensors as well but need to check on this also. Yair is the Leaf guy with all the answers on this system and very knowledgeable . Phase stuff Doug and Steve can help from Capture Integration plus Kevin Raber is here from Phase. Hassy we have David Grover and not to mention all the forum members here that can guide you. We have the experts here so just ask away and if I got something wrong here they will correct me as they should. But do ask questions and get answers from our folks here . These are very tough choices but the end of the day there is not one system here that will not produce outstanding images they all will do that.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  29. #29
    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    420
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    4

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    I think there is maybe a bit of "over sensitivity" here regarding "brand" discussions. Reminds me of having to adhere to political correctness when having discussions at a cocktail party -- I'd hope we'd be beyond that here when we're trying to learn about gear...

    Who exactly "picked holes" and in what product?

    If by chance you were referring to the HTS comment about effective focal on a crop sensor camera, I think that was a reasonable point to bring up especially when the OP asked specifically about it. The combined effects of cropped sensor and HTS magnification *might* be a valuable revelation for a new user if they weren't otherwise aware of it.

    Is it also now off limits point out that any extender, including the HTS, also cuts light transmission?

    I tend to agree with Jack. I regularly participate on 3 photographic forums (2 public, 1 non-public). All 3 are very different in their feel and tone. I think that GetDPI is the most benevolent of the 3. That is a credit to the participants.

    That said, the non-public forum is quite feisty at times. It is very "truth at any cost" oriented. Damn the hurt feelings. Be men. Etc, etc. It is a relatively set group of members, so everyone has a pretty good idea of who is who and there have been get togethers. That helps with the intensity; very rare occasions of hurt feelings. And it's a good time.

    But all 3 have their virtues.

    In general, I believe competitiveness can turn ugly if we're not mindful of it. I think most here try to be, we just slip up from time to time. But GetDPI has a way of expressing their feelings about that, so it works. I do have to say that David Grover, you are probably the most well mannered (though you're not perfect, you've had a few moments!). Hats off to you.

    And shame on Yair for bringing up that nasty little fact about the focal length magnification and stop loss on the HTS!

    I'm just kidding a bit.

    But I do agree with Jack that pointing out relevant product information ultimately benefits the potential buyer. Competitors can have a way of "keeping us honest". Dealers and reps (and even users) may not necessarily bring up negative aspects of their product. Phase One digital backs have a horrible LCD screen - not as good as the Hasselblad. My gosh, there I've said it! How many times have I brought that up? (Umm....as little as possible...?)

    Sorry for the slight off topic.

    Back to the HTS! I like the HTS. Yes it magnifies your focal length, yes you lose a stop and a half. And some have said it's expensive. But heck, it can work with (5?) lenses, so I see it as a good value. Does it match Rodenstock/Schneider quality? No. But I think it can be pretty close. It might be the cup of tea for many.

    But if you really think you'd like it, please remember you can always use it with a Phase One or Leaf digital back (or even Sinar) and any H1 or H2 camera. An HTS and the P65+ - world's only available full frame 645 sensor - paired together on an H2 camera would be a great combo. And even though you couldn't use the 28mm (umm....) the FOV gained on the sensor would do well with the 35mm HC. Ditto for an Aptus II 10. So...sure, I'm all for it!

    Just understand how you would use it and what it would enable and how you couldn't use it compared to an Alpa/Cambo/Arca solution, that's perhaps as important to know than the image quality.


    Steve Hendrix
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Digital Cam: • Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Sinar • Authorized Reseller
    TechCam: • Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar • Authorized Reseller

  30. #30
    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    1,168
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    38

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    The funny thing (to me at least, might not be funny to everyone) is that I was pointing out a couple of limitations in a (good) competitive product, yet others saw it as holes that I was picking.

    Your choice of words not mine...

    In fact I did not even call them limitations.

    "incredibly obnoxious and irritating"? :sleep006: errr...I can think of a few things in life that are more "incredibly obnoxious and irritating"...anyway...

    Back to the BBQ

    Y
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

  31. #31
    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    420
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    4

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Also I would mention that there is no shortage of opinions here. But I will say that while there are plenty of platitudes for everyone's favorite, it's often the nitty gritty details about shortcomings that DO NOT get mentioned. And these are frequently critically important to be aware of for a potential purchaser ready to fork out $20k - $30k. From that standpoint, complete information is a benefit the way I see it. How it is presented, who presents it, etc, might be that fine line, though.

    It might be a good thing to see a thread entitled "In the market for mfdb - what are the gotchas to consider for each system?"


    Steve Hendrix
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Digital Cam: • Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Sinar • Authorized Reseller
    TechCam: • Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar • Authorized Reseller

  32. #32
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    32° 31' 37.06" N, 111° 6' 0.9" W
    Posts
    4,333
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    I've seen quite a few threads here and on other forums about which system is "best" or "better"; I get those e-mails all the time as well. It seems to me the same as which vehicle is better, Ford, Dodge, or Porsche. The way I see it is that now days their so similar that there's really little difference and what difference there is is so slight that it'd be very hard to define.

    The hard truth is there simply no "best" do-all system out there - hell if there were there would be only one company making it and it would be so damn expensive us mortals wouldn't be able to afford it. The question rests on what would or will be the best system for me? What if you shoot weddings? What about portrait work? Still life? Food? Landscape? The list goes on and on. What will be best for the individual? Can you grow into it? What about the software? Will the file size be so greatly different from what you've been shooting that it will mean a completely new computer just to do your processing. We answer most of these questions all the time.

    My only experience in digital medium format has been with Phase One and I have been pleased. So pleased that I have no intention of making a move. Phase One fits me.

    I've tried Hasselblad while I was researching my move into medium format and found I didn't like the way the body felt in my hands. I tried a Mamiya AFD II and for whatever liked it. I looked at the expense involved between the two systems, body and glass and felt that I got more by spending less on the Mamiya. All this was while still shooting film. It's been a while for me however I remember researching digital backs and quickly decided that Phase One was right for me.

    As many of you already know I no longer shoot with a Mamiya having moved into a technical camera. I did my research there as well and after testing the (then new) Cambo WRS fell in love with it as it fits me. The lenses are all Schneider and work great - for me. Would I recommend a Cambo? Yes I would and do. Is it perfect? No but it suites my needs as a landscape photographer. Would I recommend the lenses I use? Yes I would and do. Do I recommend Phase One? Yes I do every time I'm asked. Is Phase One perfect? There again no but it is near perfect for me and that's what counts to me.

    We all have our own preconceived notions of what a good system is which is based on personal experience using that particular setup. Thus the beginning of brand wars. One of the things I like most about this forum is that those wars for the most part are missing. Yes we'll get into a heated discussion once in a while however again for the most part we miss the "my Richard is bigger than yours" argument. And that's very good.

    It's very funny that we keep hearing all these questions on gear but when was the last time we heard a question about dealers? You can have the best possible gear however if your support sucks then it's only a matter of time before you have a major meltdown.

    I like Steve's question as well - what about the gotchas? Since in my own personal opinion there isn't one system out there that is the end of all do it all then what about the pitfalls and work arounds? We do have a good review section here and maybe that's where some of that information is held.

    I'll close by saying the only stunningly great perfect piece of camera gear that I've tried and currently own - one that is so simple to use no matter the circumstances, day, night, rain ,snow, sleet, blowing sand and in surf (yes I've used it in each occasion) is the Arca Swiss Cube.

    Steve once again you're right "...there is no shortage of opinions here." This has been mine.

    Don
    Don Libby
    Iron Creek Photography
    Blog
    Tucson AZ

  33. #33
    Member markowich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Cambridge (UK) and Vienna
    Posts
    233
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    absolutely correct. without AF, Auto exposure etc but still technical cameras with high end digital back attached are the gold standard for many areas of photography, particularly when large prints are desired. as far as portability is concerned, the total weight of ALPA MAX+P65 with three rodenstocks/schneider lenses is less than the corresponding H equipment (or phase, leica..) and maybe even less than the nikon d3x + lenses. in fact, i know someone well, who basically does not leave home without the ALPA MAX+P65+3 or 4 lenses---))). maybe you want to check out

    www.andrea-baczynski.com

    where most of the images were made with the ALPA(with various digibacks). and believe me, they print out very nicely at 2meters length. the equipment already went up the himalayas, deep into bali rice paddies and into the saudi arabian desert.
    easy to get addicted to it, peter
    ps: i do prefer my M9 for my personal photography though---))))






    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    Nothing matches the image quality of a dedicate WA camera (Alpa/Cambo/Horseman/Sinar) with Rodenstock or Schneider glass. These solutions are LESS easy to use, but are the absolute top of image quality in the current marketplace. I do not think you will find a single member of the board who has used a dedicated WA camera who would say that any other type of camera will match that quality - though you find many who would warn you that it's not an easy point-and-shoot setup and requires a user that wants quality much more than convenience :-). When mounting to the tech camera the Leaf and Phase One have their own built in battery which means you wouldn't need an external battery or hard drive to power the back.

    [Leaf shutter only] vs. [focal plane shutter only] vs. [leaf or focal plane shutter] is a very big decision often overlooked by photographers. It effects lens size/weight/price/maximum-shutter-speed/maximum-sync-speed/shutter-vibration and diffraction limitations. Each type of shutter has pros and cons and a system which lets you use either provides enormous flexibility. See this recent post for more details.

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
    __________________
    Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
    Phase One, Leaf, Cambo, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
    National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
    Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up
    RSS Feed: Subscribe
    Buy Capture One at 10% off
    Personal Work

  34. #34
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix View Post
    I will say that while there are plenty of platitudes for everyone's favorite, it's often the nitty gritty details about shortcomings that DO NOT get mentioned.
    Good point. And we should all be adult enough to realize that pointing out something we believe is a shortcoming is not the same thing as slamming the entire product. That's what I meant when I made the "political correctness" comment.
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  35. #35
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter, Fla.
    Posts
    1,967
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    What a well behaved group we are...wonder if it has anything to do with one of the owners being a very big guy and the other an Italian from NJ

  36. #36
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    32° 31' 37.06" N, 111° 6' 0.9" W
    Posts
    4,333
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    One thing to remember as we begin speaking in terms of weight of our systems, especially while using a technical camera is the entire kit. And by that I mean the sturdy tripod that is a must. Alone my Cambo/P45+ and a lens or two doesn't break my back however I must have that tripod with me to capture the image, and like it or not the tripod/cube weights more than the camera. So I suggest we begin to think globally here and think what a "standard" system might truly weigh. For me that means my Cambo WRS, P45+ extra batteries, cables, filters, at least 2 if not 3 lens, tripod and head. All this weighs in at close to 30 pounds excluding including backpack, water or other life essentials.

    Weight might not be a huge factor in the studio however as a landscape photographer it is especially if it takes several miles over uneven terrain to get to where you need to be.

    Just my 2˘

    Don
    Don Libby
    Iron Creek Photography
    Blog
    Tucson AZ

  37. #37
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    561
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Group hug.

    D x

  38. #38
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    32° 31' 37.06" N, 111° 6' 0.9" W
    Posts
    4,333
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Group hug.

    D x
    Don Libby
    Iron Creek Photography
    Blog
    Tucson AZ

  39. #39
    DougDolde
    Guest

    Re: choosing a new MFD system


  40. #40
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    What a well behaved group we are...wonder if it has anything to do with one of the owners being a very big guy and the other an Italian from NJ
    Watch out for the short guy, sneaky little bastard.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  41. #41
    Workshop Member Woody Campbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,120
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    66

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Here's my take. Both systems are terrific. Both are used by people who I respect and even have some affection for. I'm a Hasselblad shooter but seriously considered moving to Phase this upgrade cycle.

    TS options. Don and Marc have done a very good of summarizing the pros and cons here. I own and use the HTS and have owned but sold a Horsemann and a couple to digitars. Viewed 1:1 on screen the digitars are remarkable - but in actual use I found them frustrating: in the field focus and composition are challenging (and corrections for color shifts are good but rarely perfect) and I was not getting the best out of them. I now use the HTS very happily but if you need (as I have at various times) to push for ultimate performance you may not be happy with it. And of course with the HTS you get tilt as well as shift, which is not generally available in the compact technical camera solutions.

    Lens selection is important. The HC 35-90 made a big difference for me. With it, the 28, the 100, the 150, the tele-extender and the HTS I'm really ready for anything. The camera + 35-90 is a reasonably light weight travel kit.

    One vs. two batteries. Not really that important - we can cope with either.

    Software. Both do an outstanding job of conversion, noise reduction, sharpening, color profiling etc. at reasonable speed. In other words basic blocking and tackling. C1 has the edge on user interface and bells and whistles - this was the primary reason that I gave the Phase system a serious look. Neither is a complete solution to all problems - you'll still be using PS for heavy lifting and LR or Aperture for resource management.

    Focal plane vs. leaf. For a lot of reasons leaf fits my shooting style best. The availability of the new CZ leaf shutter lenses for Phase neutralizes the H advantage on this issue a bit. This was another reason why I gave Phase a serious look. (I've lost track of delivery dates and reviews/reactions since I don't have a reason to follow them.)

    Features. There are all kinds of little differences, but the largest difference is True Focus vs. Sensor Plus. Your choice.

    Kodak vs. Dalsa. This really is a matter of taste - shoot both and see which you prefer.

    Open vs. closed systems. This is a red herring perpetuated by LL. Both systems are effectively closed. Both permit the use of legacy Hasselblad glass, although if this is important to you Phase is a better solution.

    Ergonomics. I find both awkward. But have you ever shot with an 8x10 Deardorff? For a period it was the best tool available to Ansel Adams, so he adapted to it. You'll be able to adapt to either system.

    Appearance - This shouldn't matter. It's a dumb criterion, right? The Hasselbad body is lightweight alloy with a stainless steel skin. Really impressive - I've worn the paint off the the corners of mine and it really is steel (except that the hand grip is plastic). But Hasselblad has used a putty/grey finish that makes it look like plastic. No accounting for taste. The Phase is black, as a camera should be.
    Last edited by Woody Campbell; 6th June 2010 at 04:20.

  42. #42
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    337
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    QUALITY: From my view the 8-or-so years old Sinar 54M and 54H are as good as "previous" generation Leaf Aptus 65 in terms of image quality.

    QUALITY AGAIN: The 54H in multi-shoot mode will outperform most of the latest generation single-shoot digital backs for still life subjects.

    SPEED: The Aptus 65 is fast. The shooting speed is actually limited by the time of charge of studio strobes, not by the FW400 connection or digital back.

    ISO: The lower, the better. In controlled studio environment I don't need improved ISO performance.

    SCREEN: I shoot tethered, the small preview screen is useless.

    I think, all back are capable of producing great images. If you have budget, buy latest and greatest, but the difference is not such big, especially if you shoot in the studio.

    What makes the difference is camera system, its shooting options, such as permanent mirror-up in multi-shoot mode, and, of course, optics. The camera doesn't matter - is not true at this time of evolution of photography, in my opinion.

    From all suggested above options I like the Alpa for its compactness. However I think Alpa may not be a good choice for models, since it can't auto focus, and ever its laser meter option is not fast enough for moving subjects. With some practice, this can be not a limiting factor.

    Edit: I will be interested to hear how people focus Alpa TC when shooting models and children, including precision focus with long lenses.
    Last edited by evgeny; 6th June 2010 at 04:12.

  43. #43
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Alpa TC focusing is simply guess work. It's a fun , small package that i really liked a lot but it is guess work and one of the main reasons I don't use a Tech camera is simply this i like to see the focus point through a mirror box and it is a slower process. I am a fast shooter even for landscape work. I like to see exactly what I am getting and main reason I have not bought a tech cam. I have used and like them but again for me it is limited shooting. Not to say you can't get great well focused images from it and at infinity maybe does not matter but I am a dead in the wool mirror shooter. Hard to break a 35 year habit.

    I know many complain about the LCD screens especially on Phase and yes I agree but I also get by very well with it also. It's a guide and treat it as such.

    Steve pointed out the gotcha issues and obviously there are some for sure. All of this MF stuff needs a solid platform to work from or a very steady hand and knowing your DOF and speeds for each lens . I do very well handheld and by all accounts not bragging here but I can beat just about any comment made on handheld speed of these systems. Bottom line MF is work and you need to go into it with that mindset right from the start. I get a canon in my hand I feel like I am not even shooting but camera is doing the work not so with MF it is a dead car waiting for a jump start. You really need to work these things, nothing is automatic. It simply takes thought.

    Some of the gotcha's in MF are also dependent on your experience. For some new folks to MF there issues are not always the same issues as a more experienced shooter. Let's add this some of us old dogs come from film and using 8x10 view camera's and never having a Polaroid back in those days. We overcame all the gotcha's on those systems and honestly the gotcha's don't effect us much because we come from that experience of being able to shoot blind and become great guess work artists.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  44. #44
    Member VICTOR BT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    75
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    ok... this is really great, lots of points i feel im getting a better picture/study even before testing the stuff.
    thanks alot for your welcoming and comments.
    im not sure i can answer in one go now, so will add a few comments later on...

  45. #45
    Member VICTOR BT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    75
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    ok, from a few days ago when i joined, alot of points for thought have been outlined, both practical and theoretical, and, thanks to a couple of people here the option of rollei hy6 coupled with digi back is here again for consideration.

    @ guy
    i work with medium format almost exclusively for more than two years. for everything i need and want in photography, the medium format can do basically. so the move is not dramatic here, on contrary, it slightly goes towards 35mm slr/dslr stuff with those phase and hassy stuff.
    MF/MFD is only an issue of knowing to handle it as u say, knowing the limitations, and in case of digital, having a back that allows to go to high iso (400-800) with good quality, or in other words, IQ that is as satisfactory as Provia 400X to start with. ah, and what i mean by IQ is the quality impression on print (depth, color, no artifacts, sharpness impression etc etc).
    TC is great yes, and no issue with focusing it actually, at least for normal use, without getting too close to make it hard to guees the accurate distance. but i really would like to have at least the rise of the lens, so SWA, wihle bigger, allows one of most important feature i want. and actually i like that direct viewing, it is not like leica m, it has big viewfinder with super wide field, but still feels as direct viewing.

    @ evgeny
    when u put the stuff like this, the choices are much eassier of course, the whole picture is different. in the studio, tethered, with flashes etc ... this is one of the major things indeed. but, the other side of the same camera should be that i want to take it on location, with natural light, as less tripod as possible... so my other major requirement makes all the picture more complicated...
    again, i dont care for auto-focus now, cause i dont have it... who knows, maybe when i have a super-good auto-focus (like it seems on hassy h) i will get used to it, but lets say, i dont care now, and dont want to complicate my requirements.
    as for alpa, see for yourself how well u can guees the distance, the rest is easy, open aperture needs more accuracy, closer distance needs more accuracy.
    in practice, considering that i know to guees distance well, i still would not use it for model/people photography that goes closer to than filling the frame with more or less full lenght body with about moderatly wide lens (lets say 35-48mm). why? cause u can know/study/mark the lens focus distance needed on particular lens and particular size of the model in the frame... but when u get close, half body lenght etc, the little differances are significant for focusing... i dont know about people who can guess distance in such an accuracy.
    other methods for measureing/guessing moderate distances.... imagine u count how many steps u need to take to get from photo-position to the photo-object... this is good way, cause sometimes, even if u r good at guessing distances, the physical shapes and proportions might be misleading...

  46. #46
    Member VICTOR BT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    75
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    @ marc...
    i see 2&4 pictures, and for me it makes sense, no issues, i dont see medium format camera as limitation at all, see my answer to guy in my previous comment. i guess both u and guy (he uses phase 40 as i understand from his comments/reviews) handle it just at their full potential (in terms of spontaneous attitude). all in all, i have to mention that from your impressions on h4d i read previously we see the camera in somewhat similar way as working tool. thats why i liked your remarks about this camera.
    so is with HTS1.5, if it is eassier to use, faster, more rewording, and the image quality is less but in the same league, then why not, why make things complicated ?!!! :-)
    i still dont have a clear answer about it, and i will not have it without either testing for myself, or actually using after buying it... but i liked the idea from the beggining, and the comments about hts1.5 here on the forum (yours and others too) make me think that it is a really great addition to the system. so, was glad to read your impressions, and thanks for your comments.
    funny, hassy had phase/leaf as "opponent" when i opened this thread, but i suddenly find myself thinking seriously about some solution with hy6 as opponent to hassy system. no hts1.5 advantage, but HY6! :-)
    as for my website... i think u should see the link to it as my signature now (i see it, safari). here it is in any case: http://web.mac.com/victorbt/iWeb/Sit...EN%20TZVI.html

    marc, one more question (also something im not sure i will be testing before choosing the system)... hows the 50mm lens on hassy if u know ? it should be about normal (slightly wide) for me on 40mp chip size. i have dowloaded the data-sheet from hassy size... looks ok wide open, ok when closed to optimum, the distortion is not small, but i understand Phocus takes care...
    any impressions please ?!!

  47. #47
    Member markowich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Cambridge (UK) and Vienna
    Posts
    233
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    victor, i have the H3DII 50 and use the 50mm lens on it rather sparingly. it is ok center to edge (much better than the 35mm in the edges) but my 39-90mm zoom beats it at the 50mm setting (on equal stops). still, nothing to worry about, a good lens.
    peter

    Quote Originally Posted by VICTOR BT View Post
    @ marc...
    i see 2&4 pictures, and for me it makes sense, no issues, i dont see medium format camera as limitation at all, see my answer to guy in my previous comment. i guess both u and guy (he uses phase 40 as i understand from his comments/reviews) handle it just at their full potential (in terms of spontaneous attitude). all in all, i have to mention that from your impressions on h4d i read previously we see the camera in somewhat similar way as working tool. thats why i liked your remarks about this camera.
    so is with HTS1.5, if it is eassier to use, faster, more rewording, and the image quality is less but in the same league, then why not, why make things complicated ?!!! :-)
    i still dont have a clear answer about it, and i will not have it without either testing for myself, or actually using after buying it... but i liked the idea from the beggining, and the comments about hts1.5 here on the forum (yours and others too) make me think that it is a really great addition to the system. so, was glad to read your impressions, and thanks for your comments.
    funny, hassy had phase/leaf as "opponent" when i opened this thread, but i suddenly find myself thinking seriously about some solution with hy6 as opponent to hassy system. no hts1.5 advantage, but HY6! :-)
    as for my website... i think u should see the link to it as my signature now (i see it, safari). here it is in any case: http://web.mac.com/victorbt/iWeb/Sit...EN%20TZVI.html

    marc, one more question (also something im not sure i will be testing before choosing the system)... hows the 50mm lens on hassy if u know ? it should be about normal (slightly wide) for me on 40mp chip size. i have dowloaded the data-sheet from hassy size... looks ok wide open, ok when closed to optimum, the distortion is not small, but i understand Phocus takes care...
    any impressions please ?!!

  48. #48
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Saffron Walden, UK
    Posts
    1,983
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    58

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Quote Originally Posted by VICTOR BT View Post
    @ marc...

    marc, one more question (also something im not sure i will be testing before choosing the system)... hows the 50mm lens on hassy if u know ? it should be about normal (slightly wide) for me on 40mp chip size. i have dowloaded the data-sheet from hassy size... looks ok wide open, ok when closed to optimum, the distortion is not small, but i understand Phocus takes care...
    any impressions please ?!!
    I use the 50mm on my H4D-50 and find it pretty good, with some loss at the far edges. It is probably the best general purpose focal length on the 50, slighly less wide on the 40 but still useful. You really can't fault it for general purpose shooting. I want the 28mm next

    Quentin
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

  49. #49
    Member VICTOR BT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    75
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    @ peter, thanks, yes, i think it is more psychological - not knowing the system there are lots of questions. there are some lenses that u know their nature, and then others feel as "strangers" so to speak. of course they might be great or good or bad, but it is simply a feeling of "not knowing" its nature. good to hear positive respons though, cause this lens is a "must have" if i choose the h4d.
    i already heard good things about 28mm and hts1.5... do u have any experince with it too ? and also, with 80+hts1.5 for stills/close-up/repro and even portraits ?
    also, i see u previously mentioned the tech camera, or WA camera coupled with state of the art digi back and schneider/rodenstok lens... lets say, i have no single question (to other people) and no single hassitation (with myself) about this kit potential IQ. the best, the reference as u say. the data-sheet shows how distortion free high-res lens should look like on paper/graphs. and then seeing 50mm hassy data-sheet does not add much confidence as for IQ :-) not because it is bad, but because it does not look on paper great enough to be unquestionable... again, on paper, and then comes all the "integration" that hasselblad claims, and people talk about :-)

    @ quenttin
    i see we posted at the same time... thanks for reply. ok from u and peter (with 50mp backs bigger chip) im encouraged.
    Last edited by VICTOR BT; 7th June 2010 at 14:51. Reason: answering new post

  50. #50
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Saffron Walden, UK
    Posts
    1,983
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    58

    Re: choosing a new MFD system

    Quote Originally Posted by VICTOR BT View Post

    @ quenttin
    i see we posted at the same time... thanks for reply. ok from u and peter (with 50mp backs bigger chip) im encouraged.
    Hi Victor,

    I'll post a copuple of samples shortly - full image and crop - taken with the 50mm.

    Quentin
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •