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Thread: S2 Chromatic Aberration - how big an issue is it?

  1. #151
    Member markowich's Avatar
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    Re: S2 Chromatic Aberration - how big an issue is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    You are assuming that the tests were not done with a specific purpose related to real world conditions. In reality that was exactly what I was doing with the S2. My intent was to see if this camera could eliminate the need for a 35mm DSLR and a MFD kit for weddings ... get it down to one SLR kit and my Leica M9s.

    I shoot wedding in venues like that all of the time, which made the Don Cesar test scenario very relevant for me. If I were shooting for the hotel as a place of business, it would be a whole different scenario ... off-camera lighting/softboxes, camera on-tripod, optimal f-stops, assistants lugging stuff, etc ... (and now most likely a H4D with a HTS for PC control and stitched Panoramic images).

    But at weddings in a beautiful venue like that, people are the subject ... and they are moving. It's usually hectic and unpredictable. Often no time for setting up lights ... use of diffused on-camera fill coupled with dragging the shutter and wide open apertures is the rule, not the exception (when shooting inside). This is even more critical when you consider that the S2 isn't all that great at higher ISO's.

    Personally, my hope is that the S2 will get there, and improve to the point that I'll take another look at it for what I shoot ... in the real world.

    -Marc
    marc,
    after some more hours of comparism i am now convinced that -at equal f stops- the H system with Phocus processing has little to no advantage over the S system, except of course resolution in the case of the 50mpx Hassy system. CA/fringing is more apparent in S shots because you are tempted to shoot wide open and the lenses are generally faster than the Hasselblad counterpart. this except the HC 100mm f 2.2, which shows a lot of CA wide open, even properly processed in PHOCUS (see my posting above in the same thread). to be more specific, the S 35mm is a spectacular lens, the 180mm as well. wonderful resolution up to the corners, great bokeh. the S 70mm lens is in my view less spectacular and shows the most color artifacts of all S lenses.
    the question is: what would the S system be like with proper software? i think nothing less than spectacular. i hope leica will go the extra mile and do proper software for their flagship system.
    peter

  2. #152
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: S2 Chromatic Aberration - how big an issue is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by markowich View Post
    marc,
    ...the question is: what would the S system be like with proper software? ..peter
    Dear Peter,

    from what you say, better than the other systems.. However, it may just be one of the things we minimize and live with. At the same time that we all agree that only 1 in 20-50 shots is a real keeper, we worry that the killer shot will be ruined.
    Comments here suggest setup, lighting and composition may be more important than anything.

    Interesting comment about the 70mm; I wondered why it couldn't 'blow away' my Contax 80mm 2.0 lens (that can get a little soft WO). but it seemed pretty good for the 2000+ shot I took in Ireland.

    Enjoy; I look forward to your experiences with the rest of the line.

    best
    Victor
    PS Here are 100% from S2 (LR defaults) , S-K 35mm P65+ (C1), and S2 (output from ACDSEE!) strong back sunlight.
    Yes SK is half the fl but also 2x from Phase, thought there might be some CA/fringe
    The last one shows that the default in LR (1st one) CAN take out the routine fringing/CA (obviously seen in the poor raw conversion of ACDSEE)
    Last edited by gogopix; 12th July 2010 at 16:09.

  3. #153
    Member markowich's Avatar
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    Re: S2 Chromatic Aberration - how big an issue is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    Dear Peter,

    from what you say, better than the other systems.. However, it may just be one of the things we minimize and live with. At the same time that we all agree that only 1 in 20-50 shots is a real keeper, we worry that the killer shot will be ruined.
    Comments here suggest setup, lighting and composition may be more important than anything.

    Interesting comment about the 70mm; I wondered why it couldn't 'blow away' my Contax 80mm 2.0 lens (that can get a little soft WO). but it seemed pretty good for the 2000+ shot I took in Ireland.

    Enjoy; I look forward to your experiences with the rest of the line.

    best
    Victor
    PS Here are 100% from S2 (LR defaults) , S-K 35mm P65+ (C1), and S2 (output from ACDSEE!) strong back sunlight.
    Yes SK is half the fl but also 2x from Phase, thought there might be some CA/fringe
    The last one shows that the default in LR (1st one) CAN take out the routine fringing/CA (obviously seen in the poor raw conversion of ACDSEE)
    victor, very interesting comparism. it shows the difference that a reasonable RAW converter (LR) can make over a crappy one (ACDSEE). i figure that an excellent one over a reasonable one could make the same level of difference.
    peter

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    Re: S2 Chromatic Aberration - how big an issue is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by markowich View Post
    marc,
    after some more hours of comparism i am now convinced that -at equal f stops- the H system with Phocus processing has little to no advantage over the S system, except of course resolution in the case of the 50mpx Hassy system. CA/fringing is more apparent in S shots because you are tempted to shoot wide open and the lenses are generally faster than the Hasselblad counterpart. this except the HC 100mm f 2.2, which shows a lot of CA wide open, even properly processed in PHOCUS (see my posting above in the same thread). to be more specific, the S 35mm is a spectacular lens, the 180mm as well. wonderful resolution up to the corners, great bokeh. the S 70mm lens is in my view less spectacular and shows the most color artifacts of all S lenses.
    the question is: what would the S system be like with proper software? i think nothing less than spectacular. i hope leica will go the extra mile and do proper software for their flagship system.
    peter
    Peter, personally I'd have to agree that the H4D/40 has no significant image advantage over the S2. I did find the S180 to be excellent and a serious reason to consider the S2 by itself. If the 35 follows suit as you say, then all the better. Again, I will subjectively say that to date, I've not seen one single S2 image that makes me jealous from a IQ POV ... or any other criteria for that matter. Still waiting and watching.

    In my case, CA or fringing to some degree would not have been a deal breaker. As others have said, it rears it's ugly head only on a smallish % of images anyway. I do admit that it was a surprising amount with the 70mm .... more than anything I've ever encountered with the H/C100/2.2. (BTW, that S2 70mm hotel lobby shot I posted was not shot wide open ... it was at f/3.4. Try the HC100/2.2 at 3.5 and see if your results are still similar).

    I also agree that one would be tempted to shoot wide open when it's there. Yet, the 180/3.5 is no different for my applications than the HC210/4 in terms of relative speed to focal length.

    The relatively minor issue in a supposed area of optical superiority that cost a significant premium, coupled with a lack of versatility, questionable higher ISO performance, and the need to crop the S2 files to fit most common usage verses the capture ratio of the other 40 meg backs ... and add Hasselblad's timely improvement of their True Focus AF system .... and the advantages of a $40K swap out, or even addition to existing kit, become less apparent.

    In short, to double my cash outlay, the S2 had to blow me away, and it didn't.

    Not everyone can afford multiple MFD systems ... or, in my case to pull it off, in addition to dumping all 35mm DSLR gear, I would have to off my entire M9 system ... which just isn't going to happen.

    As the song goes ... If I were a rich man ... ... which up until a few years ago I was, and thanks to the economic melt-down no longer am ... so we adjust to the real world and shifting priorities. A Hassey Multishot was a workhorse, money making priority over a passionate luxury item that added nothing to the output and siphoned off a considerable amount of incoming capital.

    Timing is everything, sometimes it works for you sometimes it doesn't.

    -Marc

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    Re: S2 Chromatic Aberration - how big an issue is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Peter, personally I'd have to agree that the H4D/40 has no significant image advantage over the S2. I did find the S180 to be excellent and a serious reason to consider the S2 by itself. If the 35 follows suit as you say, then all the better. Again, I will subjectively say that to date, I've not seen one single S2 image that makes me jealous from a IQ POV ... or any other criteria for that matter. Still waiting and watching.

    In my case, CA or fringing to some degree would not have been a deal breaker. As others have said, it rears it's ugly head only on a smallish % of images anyway. I do admit that it was a surprising amount with the 70mm .... more than anything I've ever encountered with the H/C100/2.2. (BTW, that S2 70mm hotel lobby shot I posted was not shot wide open ... it was at f/3.4. Try the HC100/2.2 at 3.5 and see if your results are still similar).

    I also agree that one would be tempted to shoot wide open when it's there. Yet, the 180/3.5 is no different for my applications than the HC210/4 in terms of relative speed to focal length.

    The relatively minor issue in a supposed area of optical superiority that cost a significant premium, coupled with a lack of versatility, questionable higher ISO performance, and the need to crop the S2 files to fit most common usage verses the capture ratio of the other 40 meg backs ... and add Hasselblad's timely improvement of their True Focus AF system .... and the advantages of a $40K swap out, or even addition to existing kit, become less apparent.

    In short, to double my cash outlay, the S2 had to blow me away, and it didn't.

    Not everyone can afford multiple MFD systems ... or, in my case to pull it off, in addition to dumping all 35mm DSLR gear, I would have to off my entire M9 system ... which just isn't going to happen.

    As the song goes ... If I were a rich man ... ... which up until a few years ago I was, and thanks to the economic melt-down no longer am ... so we adjust to the real world and shifting priorities. A Hassey Multishot was a workhorse, money making priority over a passionate luxury item that added nothing to the output and siphoned off a considerable amount of incoming capital.

    Timing is everything, sometimes it works for you sometimes it doesn't.

    -Marc
    marc,
    i totally agree. i would have never sold the M equipment for the S2. it was just a luxury acqusition (some women do buy hermes bags and suitcases, no?---))), which i happened to be able to afford at the moment.
    the hassy is ugly but it does work. i once tried the phase camera but didn't like the feel of it at all.
    anyway, if i needed to make money out of the camera, it would be hasselblad all the way-until the S system is complete, then one has to reassess.
    peter

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    Re: S2 Chromatic Aberration - how big an issue is it?

    I'll say it again: *IF* Leica had simply made the S2 Mamiya-mount compatible, I would be all over it as a second body right now, even with the processing foibles. And I would probably own the S70 as my main prime instead of the 80 LS. I am confident that had they done that, Phase would have built a good processing module on their own for the camera -- and even if not, I am confident I could get a passable set of processing parameters and capture profiles suitable for my own needs.

    But then I wake up and realize they never asked me
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: S2 Chromatic Aberration - how big an issue is it?

    Dear Jack

    I am sending you a lathe and a block of aluminum...

    Unless there is something nasty in the electronic interface (as with Contax ) shouldn't be an issue. Registration distance seems small enough. Hasselblad V already done...

    Have at it!

    all the best

    Victor

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