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Thread: lenses for alpa TC

  1. #1
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    lenses for alpa TC

    The 35mm is fine as wide, but I am wondering what the longest lens would be, using the guestimate system of focus with a 'Travelling TC"

    The SK are quite accurate, and a laser rangefinder can get to within a foot usually. But what you really need is plus or minus a yard. say shooting at f8-11 for people and objects (monuments etc.
    Landscape is POC, but in town? I wonder how practical



    also, rather than laser ranger, seems a simple rangefinder would suffice.

    Victor

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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    I think the 47mm lens - would see the end of 'guesstimate' and hyper-focal usability. Unless you want to shoot tethered or employ the use of a ground glass focussing routine..( not for me in this format)

    Cheers
    Pete

  3. #3
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    I think the 47mm lens - would see the end of 'guesstimate' and hyper-focal usability. Unless you want to shoot tethered or employ the use of a ground glass focussing routine..( not for me in this format)

    Cheers
    Pete
    LOL
    I'm trying to think how tethered would work trekking.

    couild always get something like the one man band guys use for a harmonica, and put it around my neck and hang a small notebook from it, maybe work the keys with my nose?

    anyway, that's what I thought. Still a prettyy big FOV but maybe ok for closer subjects.

    do you have any longer lenses for your alpa?

    regards
    Victor

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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    LOL
    I'm trying to think how tethered would work trekking.

    couild always get something like the one man band guys use for a harmonica, and put it around my neck and hang a small notebook from it, maybe work the keys with my nose?

    anyway, that's what I thought. Still a pretty big FOV but maybe ok for closer subjects.

    do you have any longer lenses for your alpa?

    regards
    Victor
    Vic,

    some guys lug a laptop and all teh paraphernalia required to use a scanning back to make really large panoramas - t is horses for courses I guess - as I said not realy something I am into at this stage of my life.

    re longer lenses for Alpa - there is nothing to stop people using the Schneider or Rodenstock lenses in studio shooting tethered - really teh high resolution backs these dys demand outstanding optics ..so I haev seen a lot of work done in studio tethered..and so longer lenses can be used..

    however ..( for me) it is a two lens system..24 and 35 ( the 28 Rodenstock wasn't available when I bought these -
    i think the 28 Rodenstock may be the pick of the lenses..if you just want ONE lens.

    as for longer focal lengths - including 47mm..I really have no interest..other optics straight on MF camera will do a better job..

    not to forget Victor with your big boy back - you can pretty much crop a 'different ' longer perspective quite well.

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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    On the Alpa website they say 24mm to 75mm, max 80mm for the TC. How practical that would be is a good question, perhaps it is just marketing.

    Sorry to butt in here because I really do not know anything about the system but I have been looking at it for some time, thinking about one for the future but the hole in my head needs to get a bit bigger first.

  6. #6
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    well i have the 35mm and was considering the 24
    the 28 rodens. seems interesting, but I havent seen any review

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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    CMB - when you shoot with one of these - you just laugh at the other stuff in your kit...
    Victor - I think you are way too anal -itical about this stuff man - go with your bones - spend the cash - keep your broken economy going - someone has to..

    yes Petey is HAPPY today short into this mkt this morning and making money as others BLEED - the BEST feeling for a trader..

  8. #8
    DougDolde
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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    I think you should look at Helicon Focus.

    "HeliconFocus is a program that creates one completely focused image from several partially focused images by combining the focused areas."

    http://www.heliconsoft.com/heliconfocus.html

  9. #9
    thsinar
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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    ... and the Sinar Hy6 does automatic "Focus Bracketing" of 3 to 5 images, displacing the focus between each shot and making sure that there is no gap out-of-focus between, which makes it an easy game to assemble in e.g. "HeliconFocus".

    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post

    "HeliconFocus is a program that creates one completely focused image from several partially focused images by combining the focused areas."

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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    Quote Originally Posted by thsinar View Post
    ... and the Sinar Hy6 does automatic "Focus Bracketing" of 3 to 5 images, displacing the focus between each shot and making sure that there is no gap out-of-focus between, which makes it an easy game to assemble in e.g. "HeliconFocus".

    Thierry
    Thierry,
    Would you explain the entire process, please?
    for a landscape and for a still life
    Billy

  11. #11
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    I think you should look at Helicon Focus.

    "HeliconFocus is a program that creates one completely focused image from several partially focused images by combining the focused areas."

    http://www.heliconsoft.com/heliconfocus.html
    I reviewed this about 2 years ago and it just wasn't ready, imo. The process introduced very noticeable blurring/degradation so overall image quality suffered. Perhaps a newer version is out now which remedies this? Anyway the stitching worked quite well if you had enough overlap between images.

    Image taken at f16:



    Processed image:


  12. #12
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    Graham,
    im confused; processed looks sharper. was that taken at say, 5.6?

    the images are different, unles Helicalfocus somehow has some spare PEOPLE in the software!

    did you reverse lables??

    Victor

  13. #13
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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    CMB - when you shoot with one of these - you just laugh at the other stuff in your kit...
    Victor - I think you are way too anal -itical about this stuff man - go with your bones - spend the cash - keep your broken economy going - someone has to..

    yes Petey is HAPPY today short into this mkt this morning and making money as others BLEED - the BEST feeling for a trader..
    well, aq LITTLE analysis goes a long way. since I will need to march 10-12 miles with this stuff, I aint interested in dead weight.

    however, I need to break out a head to head of the 35mm contax and the 35mm Digitar.

    no contest though, I think

    whatever happened? dont people understand the benefit of non retro focus, symetrical, gaussian lenses?

    all those groups and glass move dem light rays around summit terrible!

  14. #14
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    Graham,
    im confused; processed looks sharper. was that taken at say, 5.6?
    The first shot is a single shot at f16. The second shot is the composite of a lot of images, using the software.

    Anything looks sharp at web size but when viewed 100% there was serious image degradation. Imagine scaling a 6MP image up to 22MP using the worst possible scaling algorithm and you get an idea of how this looked.

    As I said, this was when I reviewed the software (PC version) two years ago. I just upgraded to the latest Mac version and will test it to see if it is any better.

  15. #15
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    Gotcha

    but at f/16 has a lot of DOF to 'find' good stuff
    real test would be to combine focus bracketed 5.6 or 4 however, the DOF needs to overlap I guess. must be something like stitching where it find focus 'edges' that register and then combines (or even just looks for the frame that has highest frequency spacial component.

    seems like a lot of effort for marginal results. better to have the speed (ISO)

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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    Someones got a sense of humor, "are you an Alpa male or not?". Quoted on horseman thread.

    Well, you got me curious and searching around for this Alpa camera. All a bit new to me. Found the home site and some maybe aware of this 2nd site. Could not find any lenses higher focal length than 70mm or telephoto anywhere. http://www.dtgweb.com/shop/home.php?cat=1570

    Anyway, main reason for posting was this 28mm Rodenstock must be about the best looking lense I've ever seen ever. This second link seems to be same lense as in above link, but less money, and ?no lens mount/or different?
    http://www.dtgweb.com/shop/product.p...at=1475&page=1

  17. #17
    thsinar
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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    Dear Wayne,

    it is the same lens, in both links you have provided, one with the mount for the Alpa and the other w/o any mount, simply the "nude" lens.

    It is a FANTASTIC lens, HR formula (High-Resolution) developed for digital. I have it with me and use it on my Sinar p3. The shift possibilities given are rather on the conservative side: you can easily shift a couple of mm more without noticing any quality decrease. Moreover, this lens has the huge advantage over other lenses that it is sharp right from the beginning and at full open aperture. I know many having bought it only for this possibility.

    Best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by waynelake View Post
    Anyway, main reason for posting was this 28mm Rodenstock must be about the best looking lense I've ever seen ever. This second link seems to be same lense as in above link, but less money, and ?no lens mount/or different?
    http://www.dtgweb.com/shop/product.p...at=1475&page=1

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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    Wayne google Alpa Cameras and you get this link

    http://www.alpa.ch/index.php

    Now ..enjoy ! Warning it is addictive gear if you are into this kind of minimalist set-up..

    btw - Victor is allowed to joke around - cos he cops plenty himself..

    I am getting ready for the MAX version to be released for sale in June..to add to my 12WA body.

    All you need is one lens really and that would be a toss up between the Rodenstock 28 or the Schneider 35 - both digi specked lenses. I went Schneider 35 because I also have the Schneider 24.

    You can shoot these babies hand held at insanely low shutter speeds. With a digi back on board..it really doesn't get better than this.

    Check it out.

    Cheers
    Pete

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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    Cool, thanks Thierry



    Wayne
    Last edited by waynelake; 15th May 2008 at 03:37. Reason: Question answered in link

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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    Thank you Peter. Going to have to double the price of my photos Very Interesting Stuff...

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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    MMMM- delicious!!

  22. #22
    Member Hank Graber's Avatar
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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    I had an Alpa with film backs and used the 55mm Rodenstock. Great combo made a wonderful point and shoot reportage camera. However for the smaller digital sensor I don't know if I'd go wider then 35mm.

    A Leica Geosystems laser RF helps with the closer in shots accurate to a fraction of a mm.

    Some Rodenstock 55mm shots:

    Attachment 4266

    Attachment 4267 Attachment 4268


    Attachment 4269

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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Wayne google Alpa Cameras and you get this link

    http://www.alpa.ch/index.php

    Now ..enjoy ! Warning it is addictive gear if you are into this kind of minimalist set-up..

    btw - Victor is allowed to joke around - cos he cops plenty himself..

    I am getting ready for the MAX version to be released for sale in June..to add to my 12WA body.

    All you need is one lens really and that would be a toss up between the Rodenstock 28 or the Schneider 35 - both digi specked lenses. I went Schneider 35 because I also have the Schneider 24.

    You can shoot these babies hand held at insanely low shutter speeds. With a digi back on board..it really doesn't get better than this.

    Check it out.

    Cheers
    Pete
    Heres the 1.7mb Pdf link for more info. http://www.alpa.ch/files/products/13...2TC_200704.pdf

    Can not wait to get stuck down the bottom of a river valley ravine in Haast with one of these and get educated

  24. #24
    Workshop Member Woody Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    Graham,
    im confused; processed looks sharper. was that taken at say, 5.6?

    the images are different, unles Helicalfocus somehow has some spare PEOPLE in the software!

    did you reverse lables??

    Victor
    I'm quite happy with the current version of Helicon Focus (3.79), which I use frequently. It's a sufficiently important tool to me that I wish Hasselblad would incorporate focus bracketing in the next release of their firmware. Here is an example (H3d-39, CZ 40mm IF, f8 1/30 ISO 100, processed in Phocus) that is a composite of 5 images:

    Full image:

    Attachment 4364

    Near crop:

    Attachment 4365

    Mid-distance crop:

    Attachment 4366

    Far crop:

    Attachment 4368

    Crop of unprocessed image, infinity focus:

    Attachment 4369

    Guy might well comment that the unprocessed crop has more bite than the processed crop (true), but in print the processed images feels that you could step into it.

    Regards,

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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    Thanks for posting yoru examples Woody - impressed enough to check this Helicon software out.

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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Campbell View Post
    I'm quite happy with the current version of Helicon Focus (3.79), which I use frequently. It's a sufficiently important tool to me that I wish Hasselblad would incorporate focus bracketing in the next release of their firmware.
    Thierry,

    I asked before, but don't recall getting an answer to:
    How does focus bracketing work on a Hy6?

    Thanks,
    Billy

  27. #27
    thsinar
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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    oh sorry, Billy, and I don't recall having been asked!

    Well, the focus bracketing does work quite simply: it takes 3 (or 5) different images, automatically, and makes sure that the focus is shifted between each time, so that the DOF does overlap from one image to the next.

    To be honest, and before having to answer another question about it (), I have not yet used it and don't know which kind of influence one has on it (other than the working aperture).

    Best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by BJNY View Post
    Thierry,

    I asked before, but don't recall getting an answer to:
    How does focus bracketing work on a Hy6?

    Thanks,
    Billy

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    Re: lenses for alpa TC


  29. #29
    DougDolde
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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    Woody, do you process the raw files before or after running thru Helicon Focus?

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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    I actually downloaded Heliconfocus end of the week and have been playing with it. This is a re-sized (full framed) macro shot taken from about 7 images f11 with a macro lens H3DII-31. While not perfect, it gives you an idea. I focus on the front of the flower and slowly back, 7 times and then merge together with the software. I convert all the images in Phocus first to 16-bit tiff images.

  31. #31
    Workshop Member Woody Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    Woody, do you process the raw files before or after running thru Helicon Focus?
    Process to 16 bit tiffs with common settings in Phocus, and then run Helicon on the tiffs. If you input 16 bit tiffs with the prophoto rgb profile it will write 16 bit tiffs with the same profile. Then open the file in PS and edit as usual. After I get a result I like I delete the intermediate tiffs.

    I've done a bit of further work with Helicon (actually the better part of a day of running alternatives) on the image posted above. With this big, deep mf file it looks like "Method B" with the key setting, radius, set at 3, works best.

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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    Quote Originally Posted by sinwen View Post
    Thanks, this or heliconfocus is exactly what I've been wanting, but never knew existed.

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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    Love the photos...

    Heres a Demo Rodenstock 45mm, they say 75% price of new $2672
    http://cgi.ebay.com/Alpa-Medium-Form...QQcmdZViewItem

    Wayne

  34. #34
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    Re-reading the original post, I can't help thinking that this is exactly what Live View is good for. I played with live view on a view cam recently and you can:

    - see the whole image (no need for viewfinders or guessing)
    - pick any part of the image to view at 100%, and then see the changes in focus as you adjust the camera and shoot once you have perfect focus exactly where you want it

    Sure, the laptop is an extra piece of gear to carry around but it does replace the viewfinder, laser distance meter, gives you huge storage capacity, and allows you to review your shots properly before moving on.

    I strongly recommend trying it out. I don't think I could go back

  35. #35
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    Btw, for those who don't know there are downloadable samples taken on the Alpas with many different lenses on the Alpa website.

  36. #36
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    Re: lenses for alpa TC

    Does anyone have any examples from Helicon not shot on a 39 megapixel back? (DSLR if possible), I just can't see how good the program is when you have 39 megapixels to play with, hell, anything would look good with that!
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

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