The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

MF digital newbies, so what have you learned

RayM

Member
I'm into my second MF system, the first was the Contax 645 and Phase P30+ system; my current system is the Phase DF and P40+ system. I've learned so much about MF digital in these two years since moving from a full frame Canon system, it's hard to pinpoint the primary lessons I've learned. I'm sure there will be more, but here are a few of the biggest lessons learned:

When you buy into a MF system, you are buying into the SYSTEM. Any shortcomings in what has been created for the system will become apparent rather quickly and will turn into a major dissatisfier. You'll likely find stuff that you want that you never dreamed of before. So investing the time to research before you start buying anything is very important. The look/drawing the glass produces is very important. The ability of the software to extract the very best from the image file is also incredibly important.

I've learned that there is a very real difference in the quality of the files produced in MF as compared to other cameras and formats even when using very good technique with very good exposures with smaller formats. I am consistently struck by what I can do with my MF files and what I would never try doing with other files. It is, in my opinion, like night and day.

I've learned that investing in MF equipment has decreased my anxiety about what a client wants me to do with a file. I was constantly anxious when I shot with a full frame 35mm sensor, as I knew the limitations of the file itself. Frankly, I think 35mm equipment is better than the files that it ultimately produces, again, even when I did everything right.

It is important to know exactly what you will be shooting with the gear you acquire, and that the gear you acquire is well-suited for that work. MF gear is capable of helping you produce beautiful images, but it is simply not useful in all circumstances. MF is a wonderful but highly specialized tool.

There's significantly more room for error in MF work than with smaller formats, especially with technique. The quality of the equipment is so good and so unforgiving that it has forced me into becoming a much better photographer with much better technique, and without regular practice, the technique is actually lost, quickly. I have to constantly remind myself to do it all right from start to finish. Depth of field is very short compared to working with smaller sensors, and this can be a big limitation, I have had to focus on learning the distances my lenses like best to give me the look I like best. In many ways, I've had to "unlearn" 35mm photography. MF likes a lot of light. Without a lot of light, you raise the likelihood of technique error due to camera shake. Rest assured, MF will point out mercilessly what you need to improve. The feedback is immediate.

It is imperative to do business with someone you can trust and who will be there when you have questions and problems, which you most certainly will have. It is also important to be a member of a community where you can learn from one another and from others' mistakes and learning. The knowledge being regularly shared on this forum every single day has been simply invaluable to me. People here are incredibly generous with what they have learned. This has allowed me to get up to speed on the systems/equipment way more quickly and efficiently than if I didn't have this community. Frankly, if I didn't have this community, I wouldn't be into MF gear.

It is important to look at the equipment as a means to an end, not an end in itself. It is important to remember that the equipment is being used to make photographs.

Enough rambling. I'm sure there will be more later but this is what comes to mind right now.
 

tjv

Active member
In many ways I'm not qualified to add to this discussion. I've only shot with an S2 for several days, and not in nearly enough varied situations to give a really informed opinion. What I can say is that I totally agree with what Ray has written. Especially with regard to the extreme precision needed on the photographers part to get the best out of the extra resolution. In my time testing the S2 I found out the hard way how hard it is to achieve critical focus and sharpness using my (sub?)standard technique. I'm used to using a Mamiya 7 system and Nikon DSLRs. The whole focus and recompose issue, especially with 80mm and longer lenses, can be seen on the Mamiya 7 negs when you look hard but the film grain does a good job of hiding small focus errors. The S2 was brutal in this regard. Shooting at f2.5 was near on impossible for me when hand holding at medium to close distances. Also, I'd forget trying to hand hold with speeds slower than 1/250th if you desire "sharp" results. I'd also want to keep ISO speeds at 320 and below because noise can be an issue, especially if you accidentally underexpose.

All in all, I learnt from testing that I'd need to really up my game if I was to take the dive into medium format land.

I'm into my second MF system, the first was the Contax 645 and Phase P30+ system; my current system is the Phase DF and P40+ system. I've learned so much about MF digital in these two years since moving from a full frame Canon system, it's hard to pinpoint the primary lessons I've learned. I'm sure there will be more, but here are a few of the biggest lessons learned:

When you buy into a MF system, you are buying into the SYSTEM. Any shortcomings in what has been created for the system will become apparent rather quickly and will turn into a major dissatisfier. You'll likely find stuff that you want that you never dreamed of before. So investing the time to research before you start buying anything is very important. The look/drawing the glass produces is very important. The ability of the software to extract the very best from the image file is also incredibly important.

I've learned that there is a very real difference in the quality of the files produced in MF as compared to other cameras and formats even when using very good technique with very good exposures with smaller formats. I am consistently struck by what I can do with my MF files and what I would never try doing with other files. It is, in my opinion, like night and day.

I've learned that investing in MF equipment has decreased my anxiety about what a client wants me to do with a file. I was constantly anxious when I shot with a full frame 35mm sensor, as I knew the limitations of the file itself. Frankly, I think 35mm equipment is better than the files that it ultimately produces, again, even when I did everything right.

It is important to know exactly what you will be shooting with the gear you acquire, and that the gear you acquire is well-suited for that work. MF gear is capable of helping you produce beautiful images, but it is simply not useful in all circumstances. MF is a wonderful but highly specialized tool.

There's significantly more room for error in MF work than with smaller formats, especially with technique. The quality of the equipment is so good and so unforgiving that it has forced me into becoming a much better photographer with much better technique, and without regular practice, the technique is actually lost, quickly. I have to constantly remind myself to do it all right from start to finish. Depth of field is very short compared to working with smaller sensors, and this can be a big limitation, I have had to focus on learning the distances my lenses like best to give me the look I like best. In many ways, I've had to "unlearn" 35mm photography. MF likes a lot of light. Without a lot of light, you raise the likelihood of technique error due to camera shake. Rest assured, MF will point out mercilessly what you need to improve. The feedback is immediate.

It is imperative to do business with someone you can trust and who will be there when you have questions and problems, which you most certainly will have. It is also important to be a member of a community where you can learn from one another and from others' mistakes and learning. The knowledge being regularly shared on this forum every single day has been simply invaluable to me. People here are incredibly generous with what they have learned. This has allowed me to get up to speed on the systems/equipment way more quickly and efficiently than if I didn't have this community. Frankly, if I didn't have this community, I wouldn't be into MF gear.

It is important to look at the equipment as a means to an end, not an end in itself. It is important to remember that the equipment is being used to make photographs.

Enough rambling. I'm sure there will be more later but this is what comes to mind right now.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
- the image quality is intoxicating. The only problem with that is that now I find myself turning into an IQ snob whether I really need the IQ/resolution or not. As a result, I don't use my other cameras unless i need their niche features
I felt this comment from Mark was so on point it warrated repeating. I may not always need the IQ, but it is definitely addictive!
 

KETCH ROSSI

New member
Thought this would be a interesting discussion as almost daily we have folks jumping in to the MF world and a lot of us existing users here try and help guide folks along this path. BTW we enjoy a plentiful amount of members that help folks make decisions here and I think it would be nice to hear from new buyers what they have learned from others and how they applied it to there purchases. But also it would be nice to hear after all the decisions are made and you have it in your hands what are your thoughts now. Surprised , relived, excited or going back to 35mm. Okay the floor is open and hopefully we can gain some knowledge from the new users on there thoughts.

Let it rip folks. :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
Well Guy,

even so I have been a 35mm shooter for over twenty years, when recently I was first introduced to MF, here, kinda of pushed to by you and your gear slots friends :ROTFL: I purchased a MF system form Steve and just was mazed that for all this years I have seen the world so small, looking thru the VF of a MF is an other story all together, and I'm not talking about comparing going form the 1D to the 1Ds, I'm talking about HUGE difference, then you load the pic on the 30" monitor, and filled up with just one eye..LOVE AT FIRST SITE!!

Going back to 35mm, NEVER!!

Still using 35mm YES, but for only limited work.

Now that I'm about to start my Global travel photographic journey, I look to purchase the best MF available for the Job, and take the 1D IV to tag along, for some particular shots, but I intend to shoot 90% of everything I do form now on with the MF system.

I was waiting foe my RED Epic 645, but since RED is now about to ship only the S35 version, I decided that I will buy an Hassy H4D, and fully embrace MF capturing astonishing images from every corner of the Globe, were the detail produced by MF is simply untincable with any 35mm, even if you stich as many pics as you want to cheat resolution, as if you want to cheat resolution I will then simply steach files with the MF system as well, and get absurd Gigantomongus images.. (not sure this is a real word but you get my po:ROTFL:int
 

Professional

Active member
Well, i am not that type of guy where i really need any high end gear or work into photography to go larger, but i love photography so that i never stop myself to go to better or larger gear whatever the need of it, i started with a P&S, didn't spend long time with it at all and rapidly bought a DSLR, after my first DSLR i bought several bodies with lenses ofcourse within 2-3 years ago, and overtime i upgrade or buy new body i feel impressed about the IQ, then everything happened suddenly and i went with MF, not because of this site but because i was hearing a lot that fashion and commercial using medium format, i didn't know what is medium format, then i saw few pics of medium format system on the net [Hasselblad, Mamiya...], then i started to read about it and check some photos, i saw how high resolution of those MF but i was not sure how much difference than 35mm DSLRs, then by sudden again i found a dealer of Hasselblad in my country, simply i went to him, tested i think H3DII-31 first, check the file was really nice and i loved it but it wasn't a good test, later i went to him again, this time i tested H3DII-39 and 120mm lens, not so long until i bought H3DII-39, and i fight to get 120 which i did about 2 weeks ago, started with 80mm and then 28mm, now i rarely use my 35 DSLRs, at the end i found myself to trade-in my H3DII-39 for H4D-60 and got it, the problem is that i brokeup all my money, and spent too much on it or on photography in general but still much less than you and at the end i found myself now that i really don't need anything that many, just because of you i got upgraded and i think i will never stop because of you not because of me, but good that i've got my H4D-60 now and i am one of the first people in my country to get it, so it will hold me for a while and i just wish to get paid one day, otherwise i better stop coming on the net and stop photography before i lose all my money just for fun and addiction.
 

JohnH

New member
Well, i am not that type of guy where i really need any high end gear or work into photography to go larger, but i love photography so that i never stop myself to go to better or larger gear whatever the need of it, i started with a P&S, didn't spend long time with it at all and rapidly bought a DSLR, after my first DSLR i bought several bodies with lenses ofcourse within 2-3 years ago, and overtime i upgrade or buy new body i feel impressed about the IQ, then everything happened suddenly and i went with MF, not because of this site but because i was hearing a lot that fashion and commercial using medium format, i didn't know what is medium format, then i saw few pics of medium format system on the net [Hasselblad, Mamiya...], then i started to read about it and check some photos, i saw how high resolution of those MF but i was not sure how much difference than 35mm DSLRs, then by sudden again i found a dealer of Hasselblad in my country, simply i went to him, tested i think H3DII-31 first, check the file was really nice and i loved it but it wasn't a good test, later i went to him again, this time i tested H3DII-39 and 120mm lens, not so long until i bought H3DII-39, and i fight to get 120 which i did about 2 weeks ago, started with 80mm and then 28mm, now i rarely use my 35 DSLRs, at the end i found myself to trade-in my H3DII-39 for H4D-60 and got it, the problem is that i brokeup all my money, and spent too much on it or on photography in general but still much less than you and at the end i found myself now that i really don't need anything that many, just because of you i got upgraded and i think i will never stop because of you not because of me, but good that i've got my H4D-60 now and i am one of the first people in my country to get it, so it will hold me for a while and i just wish to get paid one day, otherwise i better stop coming on the net and stop photography before i lose all my money just for fun and addiction.
I ran out of breath before I finished reading that one sentence - I think this concept of image size must be contagious...
 

Professional

Active member
I ran out of breath before I finished reading that one sentence - I think this concept of image size must be contagious...
Thank you for reading my post.
Actually, we can't hide some feelings we have when we look at some large size images, and when looking at the quality of high end images on good monitors, our breathings are running out ;)
 

symbolphoto

New member
I've been a 35mm shooter for about 7 years now. I loved it, i ate Canon up. Whenever they introduced something new, i bought into it. I thought the quality was just the very best.

Until now. I took a few test shots the other night on the H3DII-31 and it's downright jaw-dropping what can be attained. And that's only the 31 and handheld!

However, some other interesting points....

Viewfinder. I don't think it's as big and bright as some folks make it out to be. Perhaps coming from the 5DMKII, it's not as much a difference? I don't know. I haven't been in MF previously, so maybe folks mean it's better than previous models. I don't know... What i do like - I press the power button and it's ready to go.

Lenses. I got the HC35 and it's MUCH bigger than it looks in photos. I'll have the 100 2.2 coming next week and i assume that's going to be huge also. If people familiar with MF are complaining about the 50-100 being big/heavy, i can't even imagine how big that sucker is.

But when i initially opened the box, it exceeded my preconceived notions about what Hasselblad was. When you took everything out of the box and put things together, you could easily tell this is real quality. Unlike most 35mm gear. My 5DMKII's almost feel like toys now. I used to put them on a pedestal. NO more.

Also, i purchased from B&H, not a local dealer. So i don't really have that Network of support. I bought the H3DII-31 lensless kit. Which B&H had back ordered. So i call up Redmond office and they say they have it in stock. Without asking, they decided to ship it overnight to me. I was hooked. Great Great service. It really makes a difference.

The thing i was most excited to try out was tethering. Now this is sort of a love/hate relationship, I was on a PC laptop with Firewire Expresscard and couldn't get it to work. As of next week, i've decided to switch over to a Macbook Pro for the native FW800 port and the overall quality of the body. I'll be running bootcamp with Windows7, so it's not a HUGE jump for me. I'm more than happy to upgrade. However, if i get the MBP and it still isn't functioning properly, i'm going to be pissed.

But so far, the system works as expected and more(Besides tethering). For me - it's a specialized tool. With a high of 1/800 and a low of 32sec it won't be my most versatile kit, but, for the bulk of our specialized portraiture and wedding bridals, it's going to fit the bill quite nicely. We do a LOT of retouching for our shots to make brides look naturally beautiful and have perfect skin. So this resolution and quality in the gradations of shadows will really help us have more flexibility in post processing. Which is 50% of what i bought into MF for.

The second half of why i bought into MF is the high Sync Speeds. Sure it's a fad these days to darken the sky with strobes and such, but it still brings in money for those not in the know. I accustom it to people who see shallow DOF photos and think you are a genius or that's the best photo ever. They can't quite put their finger on it, but they know they like it. And having the flexibility of shooting in strong midday sun with our Elinchrom gear and setting a mood with the ability to turn day into night really helps us.

So it's ironic, but i think to sum it up, while MF bodies have limitations, the output files give us more quality and flexibility to deal with things in photoshop. So it was a no-brainer for us.
 

jlm

Workshop Member
the 100/2 is not much bigger that the 80
i gave up using Phocus for PC and simply went mac-pro/macbook pro
software/firmware upgrades via the hasselblad site are very useful and no extra cost
 
B

Bob Davis

Guest
My First Post. Hi Everyone!

My thing the past few years is stitched panos using 1ds III and long lenses, like 200mm f/2.0 or 300mm f/2.8. I also use a motorized pano head from Rodeon.

On Thursday, my new P65 plus 4 lenses arrived in a nice, sturdy rolling case.

Ease of deployment. That's one of the things I'm enjoying most. This morning, I grabbed the roller case in one hand and coffee in the other and headed for the SUV. (tripod stays in the vehicle). In the past I would load up the vehicle with a couple of roller cases, 2 or 3 lens cases, motorized head, motorcycle battery for head, etc. Maybe 4-6 trips to load vehicle.

Then, setup and shooting takes about 1/10 the time with the new system. Using the Cube and P65 instead of Rodeon, I'm getting the picture in 3-5 shots instead of 18. I will be one of the rare cases where it's actually easier to use MF instead of 35.

I think this is going to work out nicely.
 
B

Bob Davis

Guest
Hi Bob and welcome to GetDPI! And congrats on your new system too!
Thanks Jack. I've had a total mind-meld with this new camera. Now, I just have to re-shoot every decent picture I've taken in the past 30 years. :)

Bob
 

fotografz

Well-known member
You don't have to be a newbie to learn something new regarding MFD.

I've learned that money is not infinite, and if I keep at it, I'll be spending my golden years alone in a double-wide, smack in the middle of tornado alley.

:)

Marc
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Thanks Jack. I've had a total mind-meld with this new camera. Now, I just have to re-shoot every decent picture I've taken in the past 30 years. :)

Bob
Man do you have that right. I want to go back so bad to reshoot a lot of stuff that I did even three years ago with MF
 

jonoslack

Active member
What a good thread.
I was about to buy a ZD just at the time Guy bought his . . . two years ago?
Instead, as I had some weddings to do I bought a D3 . . .then I watched the increasing conversations with respect to tripods and Cubes and cables and gradually realised that it ain't for me.

Even using my A900 with the Sony/Zeiss lenses (the d3 Didn't last long) seems to sap away my sponteneity. . . . . . . so I reach for the M9.
that remark with respect to Peter

Sometimes I want more resolution . . . in which case I do a bit of stitching with the M9 files. . . . . . .sometimes I'm jealous of those great big lovely MF files, then I remember that I can shoot a festival using my leica bag as a pillow, that I can carry it without issue when skiing, and when walking the Cretan hills in 40 Centigrade. Then I look at a 36x24" print and think . . . do I really need more?

Of course, I realise that like many of you I could HAVE BOTH, but then I too would be addicted to that resolution, and I'd be forced to carry around 20kg kit with me and set up a tripod every time I wanted to take a shot.

Then of course, when I wonder if I should pay up for the new 35 'lux i realise what peanuts it is compared to what I might otherwise be spending.

That's what I learned . . . . but I sure have a good time watching and reading!
 

Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
I learned:

1. My tripod became my friend together with my remote shutter release.

2. MFD is a whole different approach in that great imagery is created by careful attention to the process, and shooting is a lot more controlled.

3. HC 100 2.2. has a really shallow DOF and I have to triple-check on location whether everything is in focus.

My 2 cents

Regards

Paul
 

PeterA

Well-known member
I think a thread on user technique would be a worthwhile 'sticky'. OR maybe a challenge shoot thread once every while . whereby each person makes a shot describes how they did it (in detail) and then how they post processed and then how they printed - total workflow.

A lot of focus on cameras - but really push comes to shove - it is how the equipment is used that matters. The total workflow has always been my personal hobby horse - and often is the difference between this or that system.

FAT light | steady camera | and knowing what you are doing in post processing all the way through to print.

I can't recomend a good workshop highly enough for people who wish to get the best out of their equipment - the learning curve is steep and frustrating at times - so a good course is the best piece of software you can buy*

*shameless plug for Jack and Guy with no pecuniary inrterest involved.
 
Top